HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Abortion: Not easy, not s...

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 02:55 PM

Abortion: Not easy, not sorry

Nearly one in three American women will have an abortion by age 45. Why are we so afraid to talk about it—or to acknowledge that our lives would have been so much less than we hoped for without it? Why are we pressured to feel that we should regret our choice, and that there's something wrong with us if we don't?

...

For a small segment of women—and the number is small, by any reasonably scientific account—abortion is indeed a tragedy, a trauma with long-lasting reverberations. But I want to tell a different story, the more common yet strangely hidden one, which is that I don't feel guilty and tortured about my abortion. Or rather, my abortions. There, I said it.

"Abortion. We need to talk about it," Pollitt beseeches in Pro. "We need to talk about it differently. Not as something we all agree is a bad thing about which we shake our heads sadly and then debate its precise degree of badness, preening ourselves on our judiciousness and moral seriousness as we argue about this or that restriction on this or that kind of woman. We need to talk about ending a pregnancy as a common, even normal, event in the reproductive lives of women."

...

How normal? Nearly one in three American women will have terminated a pregnancy by age 45, and six in 10 abortions are performed on women who are already mothers. They're not—we're not—"other." Those numbers are from Pro, and when I call it "revelatory," I want to add, oddly so. You can't live in the abortion-is-murder culture for all of your adult life and not have it affect you, even if you're pro-choice. So while I already knew much of the basic information Pollitt imparts, I'd "forgotten" some facts, and lost track of how the facts informed my pro-choice convictions.

...

In an interview with ELLE last month, U.S. Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said that she thought that the country would "wake up" and realize that the state-by-state restrictions on abortion were untenable and that we "can never go back" to the situation before Roe, when abortions were only "for women who can afford to travel to a neighboring state." Yet it seems to me that we have gone back to that time; right now poor women are in effect being denied abortions because they can't afford them, or can't afford the gas to get to a clinic that is hundreds of miles away—or can't afford all that and to stay overnight in a hotel to comply with a 24-hour waiting period.




Much more at link, a great read: http://www.elle.com/life-love/society-career/the-abortion-choice

I've heard it here on DU: "We don't have to *pretend* abortion is a good thing". I'm not pretending, it *IS* a good thing. Women have to control their fertility for 30-40 years. That is an awfully long time not to make mistakes, to not have any failure in process or judgement. Abortion allows us to decide the direction, to allow our education, careers and health to go the way that is best for ourselves. Abortion allows us to decide to become parents when we are ready to be good parents.

Abortion is a moral and positive choice that liberates women, saves lives, and protects families.

The Notorious RBG is correct. We need to wake up. We're losing our rights.

82 replies, 7870 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 82 replies Author Time Post
Reply Abortion: Not easy, not sorry (Original post)
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 OP
Solly Mack Oct 2014 #1
BallardWA Oct 2014 #2
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #6
RebelOne Oct 2014 #16
Kath1 Oct 2014 #40
shenmue Oct 2014 #3
gollygee Oct 2014 #4
SunSeeker Oct 2014 #5
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #7
jwirr Oct 2014 #8
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #9
jwirr Oct 2014 #11
theHandpuppet Oct 2014 #10
AverageJoe90 Oct 2014 #12
Paper Roses Oct 2014 #13
yurbud Oct 2014 #19
BlancheSplanchnik Oct 2014 #14
spanone Oct 2014 #15
littlemissmartypants Oct 2014 #17
Raine1967 Oct 2014 #18
Eleanors38 Oct 2014 #20
calimary Oct 2014 #28
Heather MC Oct 2014 #21
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #22
Heather MC Oct 2014 #37
Kath1 Oct 2014 #36
Heather MC Oct 2014 #43
Kath1 Oct 2014 #44
Heather MC Oct 2014 #53
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #64
Ineeda Oct 2014 #71
loyalsister Oct 2014 #23
niyad Oct 2014 #24
Thespian2 Oct 2014 #25
peacebird Oct 2014 #26
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #30
Kath1 Oct 2014 #39
beam me up scottie Oct 2014 #27
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #29
beam me up scottie Oct 2014 #34
Kath1 Oct 2014 #42
roody Oct 2014 #31
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #32
redruddyred Oct 2014 #47
marym625 Oct 2014 #50
Kath1 Oct 2014 #41
Freddie Oct 2014 #82
99Forever Oct 2014 #33
Adrahil Oct 2014 #35
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #54
Adrahil Oct 2014 #55
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #57
Adrahil Oct 2014 #68
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #70
Adrahil Oct 2014 #74
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #76
Adrahil Oct 2014 #77
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #78
Adrahil Oct 2014 #79
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #80
Adrahil Oct 2014 #81
La Lioness Priyanka Oct 2014 #56
Kath1 Oct 2014 #38
ZombieHorde Oct 2014 #45
JaneyVee Oct 2014 #52
ReRe Oct 2014 #46
Kath1 Oct 2014 #48
marym625 Oct 2014 #49
PDJane Oct 2014 #51
PasadenaTrudy Oct 2014 #58
mountain grammy Oct 2014 #59
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #61
duhneece Oct 2014 #60
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #63
duhneece Oct 2014 #66
DirkGently Oct 2014 #62
valerief Oct 2014 #65
lark Oct 2014 #67
PeaceNikki Oct 2014 #69
Enthusiast Oct 2014 #72
Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2014 #73
kmlisle Oct 2014 #75

Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 03:04 PM

1. K&R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 03:33 PM

2. Ardently concur-

heaven knows where I would be now were it not for my right to choose.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BallardWA (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 03:45 PM

6. Amen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BallardWA (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 05:35 PM

16. Ditto. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to BallardWA (Reply #2)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:50 AM

40. Yes.

You and MILLIONS of others!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 03:36 PM

3. Wow

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 03:36 PM

4. Kickety kick kick!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 03:38 PM

5. I agree with Rev. Ragsdale, abortion is a blessing to the women who need one.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SunSeeker (Reply #5)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 03:49 PM

7. She's wonderful. I wish more, no all, Christians were like her.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 03:56 PM

8. Divorced, three children, one severely disabled, one abortion. I did not want another child to raise

as a single parent. I also would have been expelled from my "wonderful" Christian college had I ended up showing a pregnancy and as a poor student I could not afford that.

As to sorrow. I remember walking out into the campus and setting in the dark to cry that night but after that I keep the knowledge that I and my other children would be much worse off had I not taken that route. No regrets.

As to speaking about it. My children know and my sister. Other than that you guys are it. I actually only think about it when the issue of abortion comes up.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to jwirr (Reply #8)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 04:03 PM

9. I am glad that you had the option to make that decision for your family.

I trust women and their doctors to do what's best for their health, themselves and their families.

And I want the option to always be there for all women.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #9)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 04:10 PM

11. I agree. We need to win this fight all over again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 04:07 PM

10. Thank you, Nikki

Right on, as ever.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 04:27 PM

12. Perhaps one day.....our society will have evolved to the point.....

 

where abortions will always be available, but won't quite be needed nearly as much as they are now, simply because of things getting much better for women as a whole. Good post, PeaceNikki.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 04:29 PM

13. The decision to have an abortion belongs to the woman involved.

It is personal and private. This decision should have nothing to do with politics, religion, money, or any other reason. PERSONAL! Nothing else!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Paper Roses (Reply #13)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 05:57 PM

19. it does have to do with money for a lot of women--they can't afford to have kids.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 05:27 PM

14. safe abortion saves lives. women's lives. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 05:29 PM

15. k&r...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 05:38 PM

17. Kicking. Thank you. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 05:53 PM

18. That is truth: Not easy, Not sorry.

It may be uncomfortable for some people to acknowledge this simple statement, but I speak for myself when I say: TOTALLY AGREED.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 06:01 PM

20. The GOPer is FULLY intent on imposing orthodox prohibition.

 

The biggest problem with defending a woman's right to choose control over her body is the lack of coherent, visible opposition to the re-establishment of police-enforced prohibition.

The GOP WILL NOT compromise. We work best by understanding this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #20)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 09:18 PM

28. THIS^^^^^^

Exactly, Eleanors38! That's the basic "it." BRAVA!!!! Nailed it!!!

The GOP WILL NOT compromise. We work best by understanding this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 06:01 PM

21. I had an Abortion at 19

I don't lay awake at night regretting that choice. I am not ashamed or embarrassed that I ended that pregnancy. I had no trouble getting pregnant with my husband and having two healthy yet crazy boys 8 years later.

If I was in that situation again I would make the same choice. I did not want to a be a single mother at 19. I didn't not want to be forever linked to the father if he was not meant to be in my future.

And I don't care who has a problem with that, no one is going to live my life but me.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Heather MC (Reply #21)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 06:15 PM

22. I'm proud of you for doing what was right for you and for your future family.



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #22)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:44 AM

37. Thanks

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Heather MC (Reply #21)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:42 AM

36. You did the right thing!

I didn't realize how "pro-choice" I was until I had a pregnancy scare in college. I didn't "agonize" over anything. I just thought I need to terminate this ASAP! That woke me up to what choice really means. I agree - we have to live our own lives.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kath1 (Reply #36)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:59 AM

43. Agreed, I use to believe I am pro choice but I would never have an abortion myself

Then there I was faced with the choice. Neither choice was easy. But I am glad I was free to decide. I didn't tell my parents, or any family members.

I eventually told my super religious mother years later. But then I said, be honest you are glad I didn't have it aren't you? She said Yeah.

Being raised by an uber religious mother left me with the feeling at that time that pregnancy was the worst thing a young girl could do. My father use to say, it's harder to raise girls than boys because girls can get pregnant.

So of course when I got pregnant I did not bother seeking comfort and guidence from my parents, I knew they would be overly emotional, stupid, and tell all my damn business. But I also knew they would be no help if I kept the kid, and my mother would be spiteful and kick me out of her house.

I often wonder how many girls decide to abort because they know their very religious families would treat them like shit?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Heather MC (Reply #43)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 01:09 AM

44. Understand 100%

I would have had the same situation with my very intolerant Catholic parents. There would have been absolutely no comfort or guidance. Abortion was the first thing that came to my mind. Had I actually been pregnant, I have no doubt I would have terminated it. My guess is that a lot of girls have abortions just because of the reactions they would get from their religious parents. And I think that really sucks.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Kath1 (Reply #44)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 09:43 AM

53. i heard some idiot christian say Aborted babies go to heaven so....

Winning. Of course when asked How will they know they are in heaven if they were terminated before their brains fully developed?

Response .....*Crickets*

LOL

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Heather MC (Reply #53)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:06 PM

64. One of the lies I have seen being spread now by the Christian Taliban is that women who terminate

are 10 times more likely to commit suicide.

Lifesitenews is spreading that bullshit. It's their way of pretending they care about women.

And it's 100% BS: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_and_mental_health

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #64)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 02:10 PM

71. A dear friend--a former Catholic Sister of Charity nun and extraordinarily credentialed nurse--

tells tales of illegal abortions that would curl hair. She dealt with the aftermath, back in the day. Truly. Coat hangers, knitting needles and all! The truth is that women will always need abortions and will often find desperate ways to get one or attempt one themselves. It makes me weep. (I've had one illegal and one legal. Legal is better.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 06:53 PM

23. My favorite analogy is divorce

It's the best choice sometimes and serves to help people create a better life for themselves.

I think we shouldn't underestimate the value it has for men. A friend was recently talking about how her son was sad that his 17 yr. old girlfriend had an abortion. I told her that he was lucky that she made that decision because having child support to pay would be very limiting.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 07:12 PM

24. k and r for the truth!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 07:59 PM

25. K & R

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 08:04 PM

26. I was in college and unmarried. I was using birth control, but got strep

No one told me that my antibiotic would render my BC useless. (1978)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to peacebird (Reply #26)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 09:59 PM

30. Shit happens, I'm glad you had the choice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to peacebird (Reply #26)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:48 AM

39. I'm glad you were able to make the decision which was right for you!

'78 was the year I thought I was pregnant at age 20. I would have done the same.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 08:09 PM

27. Persecution of women who have had abortions...

How many of us can actually be honest about having had one?

I can talk about it here but very few people irl know what happened to me.


Last year my friend's teenage daughter thought she was pregnant and we were trying to find a way to get her across the state if she decided to have the procedure. She lives in a small southern town and was terrified that her boyfriend would publicize it on Facebook if she broke up with him.


Yes, the latest generation of women is SO lucky.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to beam me up scottie (Reply #27)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 09:58 PM

29. I've gladly helped a minor over the state line to bypass the shit parental notification.

And I'd do it again.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #29)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 11:33 PM

34. Damn straight

I live in Tennessee where the proponents of Amendment 1 are running their ads every ten minutes.

The Really Crazy Anti-Abortion Strategy on the Ballot in Tennessee
This Year’s Most Outrageous Anti-Abortion Strategy
Tennessee out-crazies all the other states with its proposed constitutional amendment.
By Dahlia Lithwick


That’s right. Tennessee is trying to amend its constitution to never protect abortion, ever, under any circumstance. And how did the state get here? In 2000, the Tennessee Supreme Court ruled in a case called Planned Parenthood v. Sundquist that the Tennessee constitution affords even more protection than the U.S. Constitution to Tennesseans seeking abortions. The court determined that “a woman’s right to terminate her pregnancy is a vital part of ... the Tennessee Constitution,” and it held that Tennessee could only pass very narrow restrictions on abortion as a result. As part of that decision, the court struck down several laws passed in 1998 by the Tennessee legislature, including a measure requiring hospitalization for second-trimester abortions, an informed consent provision, and a two-day waiting period. Republicans in the state legislature immediately reacted by attempting to amend the state constitution. Those proposed amendments failed to pass the state legislature until 2011. Now it’s on the November ballot.
Advertisement

Don’t be confused by references to rape and incest and the life of the mother in the language of the proposed amendment. As Eleanor Clift writes, “[T]he second sentence is craftily written to leave the impression that exemptions are either in place, or could easily be put in place.” But the proposed wording would in fact allow the state to regulate all those interests out of existence. There is no question that this measure goes far beyond the proposed “personhood” language in other states to ensure that legislatures could pass any future legislation, including regulations that could ban abortions even to save mothers’ lives or to protect incest victims. It would allow laws that criminalize harm to a fetus or even ban access to methods of birth control deemed to be abortifacients.

*

The insidious beauty of Amendment 1 is that it operates as a Trojan horse to permit any and all future regulation. And as one local blogger notes, the fact that state legislators won’t disclose which kinds of measures they seek to pass establishes that this is precisely the point. As Stacey Campfield, a Tennessee senator from the 7th District (Knox County) told the Family Action Council of Tennessee: “After [Amendment 1] passes, I have several ideas but for fear of those ideas being used to help defeat Amendment 1, I will refrain from talking about those at this time. I doubt there are any ideas I would oppose that would restrict abortion in Tennessee.”

This referendum has implications that go far beyond the state borders. As all the states surrounding Tennessee passed more and more anti-choice legislation in recent years, Tennessee came to be the state that neighboring women turned to to obtain services denied to them in Alabama, Mississippi, and Kentucky. This meant that by 2010, 1 out of every 4 abortions in the state was sought by an out-of-state patient. Terrell (director of Choices, a Memphis reproductive health clinic that provides abortion services) explains it this way: “If Amendment 1 passes, the state of Tennessee would quickly join her Southern sisters in passing the kind of extreme regulations that make access to abortion impossible. This is, of course, the goal of the amendment’s drafters and supporters.”

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2014/10/tennessee_anti_abortion_amendment_1_voters_will_decide_whether_legislature.html



Time to revisit the idea of an organized abortion underground.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #29)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:55 AM

42. Good for you!

I would gladly do the same!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 10:46 PM

31. I had an abortion 36 years ago. All I felt was relief.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to roody (Reply #31)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 11:01 PM

32. That's how mine made me feel as well. And that's OK. And normal.

I'm frankly sick of the narrative otherwise.

And I'm glad you could choose the path best for you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #32)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 06:56 AM

47. thanks for sharing ladies.

 

funnily enough, the only instances in which I've heard the predominant narrative is from those who couldn't possibly know one way or another. which is to say: men.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #32)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 07:47 AM

50. add me to that

I made the mistake of telling a cousin/friend who then shared it with her mother. My aunt then shared it with the rest of the family. Coming from an Irish Catholic family, that's a great deal of people. And as my aunt shared it, she was sure to add how her daughter was "pure." Something I laughed out loud at but kept the truth to myself.

I am lucky I have such a great mom. She got on the phone with her sister and ripped her a new one. She emphasized the fact that entire generation kept the secret from my aunt's kids that she was actually married a year after they thought, she being pregnant when she married and was too ashamed to be truthful.

What I was ashamed of and what took many years to deal with was I became pregnant from a rape. Now I am ashamed of that shame. I didn't even tell my parents until I was about 18 or 19.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to roody (Reply #31)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:53 AM

41. That is how it should be.

Always!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to roody (Reply #31)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 05:17 PM

82. Me too. Also 1978

2 people know, my boyfriend (now husband) and my college best friend, who took me to the clinic. Didn't tell bf until long after the fact, as we were a new couple and I didn't want to complicate things. When I finally told him, he wished I had told him them but that I did the right thing. We were 20. Now many years married, 2 kids and 2 grandkids.
My daughter is a nurse and fiercely pro-choice too, and I've never told her. When faced with an unexpected pregnancy of her own, she made the other choice and had my beautiful granddaughter, married the guy and they just had a planned-for baby boy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 11:15 PM

33. I agree. 1000%. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sat Oct 18, 2014, 11:56 PM

35. I do not agree.

 

It is not a good thing, in my view. But it's sometimes necessary, and should always be the woman's choice. That is all.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Adrahil (Reply #35)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 09:48 AM

54. I find it sad and pathetic when one cannot see a private medical decision which allows a woman to

choose when and whether she becomes a parent as a good thing.

When coupled with the "but I support choice" it's exactly the type of soft support that has allowed so many states to restrict access.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #54)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 10:30 AM

55. My support isn't soft.

 

I consider choice an important issue, and key to our fight against misogyny and patriarchy.

That doesn't change my personal feelings about the nature of the procedure. I can't simply decide that I think it's good to do that. But I can recognize the importance of placing that decision in the hands in which it belongs, and I will not judge women who choose to do it.

That's my position and I don't care if you consider it "sad and pathetic."



Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Adrahil (Reply #55)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 11:06 AM

57. I don't know why you feel it necessary to inject your 'personal feelings about the nature of the

procedure' at all.

Doing so is a sign of soft support whether you realize it or not. I find it highly suspect that one would truly fully support something that they believe to be bad. That just doesn't make sense.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #57)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:53 PM

68. Well, think more complexly then.

 

There are many things in this world I find distasteful, but it recognize that they represent the "least bad" decision. That's called complex thinking. Not to mention, despite my personal beliefs, I recognize that people must be able to control,their own bodies.

As to why I injected my personal feelings? You did it in your OP. You are making a value judgment about the value of abortion itself. That's a personal feeling. I don't happen to agree with it, but I never the less recognize not only the importance of having it available when necessary, but leaving the decision as to when it is necessary to the woman involved, and the advice of those she wishes to involve.

But I do have a personal history with this procedure that I do not wish to discuss right now. May

If you can't accept my support on the issue without insisting that I think it's a good thing, then that's too bad. I will keep supporting pro-choice candidates without thinking abortion is "good."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Adrahil (Reply #68)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:59 PM

70. At a time when abortion access is being ripped from us,

I stand by my statement that support like yours is soft. Anything short of fully supporting access without adding to the stigma (which you do, by the way of indicating it's bad) is soft support which adds to the culture allowing restrictive legislation to continue at record pace.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #70)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 02:53 PM

74. Well, you'll just have to live with it.

 

I DO think Abortion, in general, is a terrible, if sometimes necessary thing. I can't suddenly change my feelings on that because you think it makes me a "soft supporter." You'll just have to live with my support of a woman's right to make that decision even if I don't agree with her decision.

Frankly, this conversation leaves me flabergasted. I had no idea that my position could possibly be controversial.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Adrahil (Reply #74)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 03:08 PM

76. You know what has me flabbergasted?

The massive decline in access to abortion, TRAP laws, wait periods and "personhood amendments".

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/26/abortion-clinic-closures_n_3804529.html



Your support is soft. If you cannot, during this time of massive need, possibly see, acknowledge or speak of the good things associated with abortion and access to it adds to women's lives and society as a whole, you're soft. If you think it's "terrible", you're really soft. Again, I have a really hard time believing you would fight for access to something that is "terrible". Even if you did, you embolden those who pass anti-choice legislation. "See? Even pro-choicers think it's terrible!!11!!"

And you should step aside while those of us who can fight for it for you, ourselves and future generations.

If you go around talking out of both sides of your mouth saying it's bad and terrible but are really pro-choice, I find it odd that you have not been called out on that before. But you can't say that hasn't happened anymore.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #76)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 03:20 PM

77. Step aside? How. You don't want my vote? This is ridiculous.

 

So do we have a purity test now? You can only be pro-choice if you're really pro abortion and think it's a societal good?

That's silly. WTF difference does it make if I don't approve of your choices, so long as I strongly support your right to make them?

I support the rights of people to make all kinds of choices I don't approve of.

And yes, I do think that sometimes the abortion is the right choice for a woman. That doesn't mean I think it's a "good" (that being a subjective judgment) choice, but sometimes it's the best choice.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Adrahil (Reply #77)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 03:23 PM

78. I am not running for any office. But if you're implying you would vote against choice because I am

not being nice to you on the internet, I correct my previous accusations of calling you soft. If you'd do that, you're not even that. You're an adversary.

How fucked up is it that you ignore all of the data about what is happening and focus on your feelings? That's the 'difference it makes'. Soft support like yours emboldens those efforts to restrict. It's the whole point of the article in the OP - ending the stigma. And you are hung up on perpetuating it.

Yes, step aside.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #78)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 03:34 PM

79. <Sigh> No. Like I said, you'll have to live with it.

 

I'm a pro-choice voter. I will continue to vote for pro-choice candidates (for me anti-choice means you don't get my vote), whether or not you want me in your little club.

No. I won't step aside. I will speak my mind.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Adrahil (Reply #79)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 03:39 PM

80. And I mine.




Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #80)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 03:56 PM

81. Good day to you then. NT

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Adrahil (Reply #35)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 11:04 AM

56. lol. are you talking about boob jobs? because that's how i feel about those.

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:45 AM

38. Right on, PeaceNikki!

"Abortion is a moral and positive choice that liberates women, saves lives, and protects families." Couldn't say it any better. That is the botton line and the TRUTH!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 04:04 AM

45. I am very much pro abortion.

I usually say I'm "pro choice," since many people seem to get offended when I use the term "pro abortion," but I think that's silly. I don't have to use the term "pro choice" for any other medical procedure, such as blood transfusions or flu shots. I can just say blood transfusions and flu shots are great and I'm glad they're available. "Blood transfusions should be safe, legal, and rare." Fuck all that.


That said, I think we do poorly when we use strawman arguments against anti-abortion/pro-life individuals. People who are against abortion usually hold that opinion because they view it as baby killing, and not because they want to control women or punish "sluts" or anything like that.

I'm a little bit drunk, so I hope this post makes sense.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #45)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 08:25 AM

52. The "control women/punishment" are...

 

About the politicians, which regardless of their view about the procedure, very much intends to control women and their bodies. The rest are free to have their own moral beliefs but not free to impose them on others.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 06:40 AM

46. K&R

If a woman can't control what happens with her body, she can't control her life. Her life is NOT her own. EFF that! If you can't control your life, you are NOT free. Control your lives, women! Your life is yours and nobody elses. When I was about 25, (divorced, with one adorable child) I knew I didn't want to have more children. I went to my OB/GYN and asked for a tubal and he said no. That burned me to a crisp. What right did that Dr have to tell me I couldn't have a tubal? It was my body, my life. I went to a different GYN and he said the same thing. I don't know if GYNs still do that, but they shouldn't. I did have a safe legal abortion and never looked back. Not one iota of a tinge of guilt. Never told anyone, as it wasn't anyone's business but my own. I just became resigned to taking those damn BC pills, whether I liked it or not. Thanks for the OP. PeaceNikki.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ReRe (Reply #46)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 07:35 AM

48. If you can't control your life, you are NOT free.

Exactly! Thank you.

I took my daughter to Planned Prenthood for birth control when she turned 16. It was partially for precaution but mainly because I wanted to make it clear to her that her decisions should be her own - not mine, not some politician's, not some priest's -her own. I always told her if she ever needed an abortion I would support her 100%.

I'm glad you were able to have a SAFE and LEGAL abortion. The is ABSOLUTELY NO NEED to feel any guilt or look back. It is our right that so many have worked so hard and sacrificed for.

Peace, ReRe!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 07:36 AM

49. Brava!

Excellent post! Thank you!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 08:03 AM

51. We are going to need to fight this fight again.

The world is getting to be a place that I'm not too happy to live in. It has become an oligarchry, with a very few controlling both wealth and choices. We've elected people who can be bought, and people who 'believe'...and that has been a huge mistake.

I had hoped that we would not, in the 21st century be battling this pro-religion, anti-science, pro-fascists take on life.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 11:12 AM

58. So glad I never had to

And I would have, don't get me wrong! I knew at about age 10 that I would never want kids so I was always super careful or just plain abstinent. I was too scared to get a tubal, too. So, I'm 50 and done with my periods. It all worked out.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 11:51 AM

59. When abortion is simply a medical procedure and nobody's business

except for the pregnant woman and her doctor, we will reach real freedom and equality. Men are allowed to take care of their medical needs in complete privacy while women are relegated to "abortion clinics," publicizing our private medical business. As long as we allow men to make medical decisions for women, we will never be equal.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to mountain grammy (Reply #59)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 11:59 AM

61. Agree 100%. We need to end ALL restrictions to abortion and access to it.

Like Canada. They did that over 25 years ago.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/115253

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 11:58 AM

60. I had an abortion when I was 21...no regrets, no guilt

I'm now. I told both my children as they grew up that I am and was pro-choice.

Recently a woman at our senior center said she was glad that my mother was not pro-choice ...I looked at her and said loudly, " My mother WAS pro-choice; she chose to have me. My children know that I CHOSE to carry them as I was ready, and wanted them with every fiber of my being."
I told my story on stage at a local monologues play. It gets easier to tell...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to duhneece (Reply #60)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:02 PM

63. Thank you.

Ending the stigma and sharing the truth about abortion and how normal and even natural it is to make decisions which change the course of our life is important. I wish it weren't even an issue and fully integrated into women’s reproductive healthcare without restriction or stigma.

In the meantime, we'll keep fighting and sharing the truth.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Reply #63)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:36 PM

66. Amen!

Thank you for your thank you! It took many years to go 'so public.'

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:01 PM

62. KNR. 100%.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:33 PM

65. When I was younger, I didn't have a single female friend who hadn't had an abortion.

None of them seemed distraught over it. It was a pain in the ass, like a root canal. Needless to say, I wasn't friends with any fundies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:49 PM

67. Thanks PeaceNikki

Thank you for your honesty and for sharing. Me and most of the young women in our circle of friends had abortions when we were in our late teens, because no doctors in our redneck northern FL town would prescribe birth control pills to unmarried teens and we were not ready to start raising a family as we were still in high school and college. I shudder to think what my life would have been like if I had a baby a few months after I turned 18. I probably would have gotten married to someone I didn't love because if I didn't, my folks would have sent me to those one of those horrible christian homes for wayward girls, where you got beat for not following the fundamentalist Southern Baptist way.

Out of the 5 young women, one had the abortion because the baby had died but she couldn't tell her parents so went to NY and nearly died. Her abortion was no more legitimate than mine or the others. Making decisions about our own bodies and lives should be every woman's right.

Over 10 years later, I was in a good place to start a family and was blessed with two children. With my first intended pregnancy I was told I was losing the baby so many times, and the only way to keep it was to stay in bed until I stabilized. I quit a great new job I was going to start, because I couldn't go to Japan for training, and stayed in bed for 3 months. Finally, I stabilized and had a beautiful son as a result. But once again, this was my decision.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lark (Reply #67)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 12:54 PM

69. And thank you.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 02:30 PM

72. Kicked and recommended a whole bunch!

Thank you, PeaceNikki.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 02:52 PM

73. And, definitely, Not Guilty. K&R

 

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to PeaceNikki (Original post)

Sun Oct 19, 2014, 03:01 PM

75. A larger view

Imagine the night of a full moon in the Florida Keys in the Spring. Seven miles out the coral polyps that build the reefs surrounding the Keys are flooding the waters with eggs and sperm. The water are cloudy with literally billions of eggs and sperm.

Now imagine if every one of these eggs are fertilized and grow to maturity instead of the tiny majority that actually make it. This would be a disaster that would destroy that entire ecosystem. Nature, if we observe her, is telling us by what we see happening all around us that choice for humans is important and that, to disagree with Monty Python, every sperm is not sacred to be preserved at all cost. Because that cost will destroy life on earth.

The message I get from this simple fact is that choice is actually a necessary sacred act to insure that life can flourish on Earth. Of course I am a pagan humanist - not a christian!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread