Is this correct ?

[NM_Birder]

you don't have to show ID to vote, yet you DO have to have ID to engage government social services ?

Why is one so racist, yet not the other ?
Should the idea of identification just be abolished ?

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. lets see....hunting license acceptible

College ID's are not. How is that fair?

By the way I HAVE a voter registration card.

[NM_Birder]

4. where is a hunting licence accepted as valid ID ?

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. Texas...

And likely others too..

[NM_Birder]

10. give me an example of what your hunting licence

will suffice, for personal identification.

game warden wants to see your ID, along with your valid hunting licence, to prove it is you hunting.
that was good for a chuckle though, thanks.

[B2G]

17. Not a hunting license, concealed/carry license

two completely separate things.

[ctaylors6]

35. ID accepted in TX to vote:

Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
Texas concealed handgun license issued by DPS
United States military identification card containing the person’s photograph
United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s photograph
United States passport

[randys1]

80. All unconstitutional, dont you just love it how we are talking about ID as if it is legal

to require it...

[ctaylors6]

95. I'm

not trying to discuss unconstitutional or legal. I'v been trying to post about TX because I'm very familiar with it and hoping to help anyone who has misinformation (which I've seen lots of in national news and forums). I've always felt that having correct information out there might help someone. I posted somewhere else that TX allows free getting BC in certain situations and felt attacked. It just frustrates me to read in national news stores that misreport something that might discourage someone from voting.

I'm not going to post anymore because I'm obviously not very good about wording things. That was posted straight from the SOS website to clarify in case someone showed up with something not allowed in TX.

[randys1]

96. Sorry, I wasnt going after you, I knew what you were doing, I am just relentless about this issue

Dont stop on account of me, please


https://twitter.com/DidTheyLetUVote

[spanone]

123. tennessee id law...

Tennessee driver license with your photo
United States Passport
Photo ID issued by the Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security
Photo ID issued by the federal or Tennessee state government
United States Military photo ID
Tennessee handgun carry permit with your photo

[kelly1mm]

162. THIS IS FALSE. The poster has been informed this is FALSE and does not care to edit/correct. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

165. bull

http://www.elections.alaska.gov/vi_hv_vote_polls.php

Alaska does for one..

[kelly1mm]

167. You said Texas. Are you saying now the you were incorrect when you said TX allows voting

with a hunting license? If so, will you edit/change your post?

[VanillaRhapsody]

194. have you provided a link to prove it?

As I did?

[kelly1mm]

195. Link is in the body of this post. Now will you edit your false statement?

http://votetexas.gov/register-to-vote/need-id/

SNIP

"Here is a list of the acceptable forms of photo ID:
•Texas driver license issued by the Texas Department of Public Safety (DPS)
•Texas Election Identification Certificate issued by DPS
•Texas personal identification card issued by DPS
•Texas concealed handgun license issued by DPS
•United States military identification card containing the person’s photograph
•United States citizenship certificate containing the person’s photograph
•United States passport"

[kelly1mm]

158. Nowhere is a hunting license accepted while in that same state a college ID or utility bill

not also be accepted.

(note - edited as it appears AK WILL accept a hunting/fishing license as ID to vote but it also allows utility bills/college ID/many other forms of ID to be used)

[VanillaRhapsody]

164. and YOU are wrong

Alaska..

http://www.elections.alaska.gov/vi_hv_vote_polls.php

[kelly1mm]

168. You are right - I edited my post. Will you do the same? nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

191. why...did it hurt?

[kelly1mm]

196. I believe in admitiing when I am wrong and correcting the record. You apparently do not. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

204. but I am not....the point remains as Concealed

Carry permits ARE allowed.

[kelly1mm]

205. You said hunting licenses were allowed while college ID's were not. That is an incorrect statement.

What is correct is what you just said - that concealed carry permits are allowed. But your first post in this thread says hunting license, not concealed carry permit.

THAT is what I have been saying for all these posts. That your statement that hunting licenses in TX (as you claimed) were valid forms of ID for voting while college ID's were not valid forms of ID for voting is FALSE.

[VanillaRhapsody]

203. So?

Concealed carry is there and equally as ridiculous....

[4139]

8. I don't know about hunting licenses but fishing licenses.....

Are in-state or out of state... I went to college in Massachusetts for a while and also Colorado but I lived in Connecticut

[VanillaRhapsody]

13. what does that have to do with it?

And voter registration fraud is so little this is just a voter suppression scam...anything that depresses turnout favors Republicans

[B2G]

19. It doesn't prove you live in that state

Pretty much of a no brainer...

[4139]

45. I don't think you can buy beer with just a college ID....

[VanillaRhapsody]

124. can you buy beer with your concealed carry permit?

But you can vote with it...

[randys1]

81. 31 cases per one billion votes...31 cases per one billion votes that is billion with a B

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/

[NM_Birder]

14. you have to have ID to get a fishing or hunting licence

in every state.

[notrightatall]

28. sorry, but in many states minors, with NO id can get hunting and fishing licenses.

[NM_Birder]

44. sorry, minors can't vote or get social services in thier name.

have to have parent or guardian.
It was a good try though.

[VanillaRhapsody]

125. can they get a concealed carry?

Can you buy beer with that?

[NM_Birder]

131. Minors ? ....no.

I'm not surprised you didn't know that though.

can a minor buy beer using his/her concealed carry ? Again,....no.

[VanillaRhapsody]

133. can an adult?

Thats where I was leading...

[NM_Birder]

138. can you use your concealed carry, to get into your safety deposit box ?

wandering in random directions is not "leading".

[VanillaRhapsody]

166. can you use it to vote?

That IS the subject we are on and you seem to be avoiding.

[NM_Birder]

211. Can you get concealed carry without ID ?

No, you HAVE TO HAVE ID to get concealed carry, along with a background check.

[VanillaRhapsody]

212. And I showed ID when i got voter registration

Can you vote with cincealed carry or no?

By the way in Alaska a hunting license counts...

[NM_Birder]

48. forgot, also need parent or guardian for hunting licence, AFTER

completing hunter safety program, thru the state ......after showing ID.

[randys1]

83. 31 cases per one billion votes...31 cases per one billion votes

[NM_Birder]

143. "billions" of votes, 31 cases ? baloney

I heard it was 31 cases per one Trillion votes, of course that is projecting into the future somewhat.
statistically nobody has ever taken advantage of the system,......... baloney.

[randys1]

170. So facts mean nothing to you?

[NM_Birder]

176. 31 cases in one billion. That is a "fact" ?

[randys1]

177. Did you not read the link I posted? Hey, do you get paid to post here? just curious

[NM_Birder]

179. I'm not surprised you believe that Washington Post article, to be "fact"

No, DU pays people to write here ? is that a fact too ?

[randys1]

182. So you have a report that is credible that says otherwise? Let me answer for you,

No, you dont, no such thing exists.

Voter ID exists solely to stop Black people from voting, and students.

It is anti american, it is terrorism to me, when the rest of the country sees it for what it is it will disappear.

[NM_Birder]

184. you cite opinion, not fact. there is a difference.

You just proved my point........ and yes, that was indeed a fact.

Show me a bullshit article, proving my bullshit article is bullshit, and if you can't then my bullshit is fact.

I did, 31 acts of voter fraud in 31 TRILLION votes cast, ... statistically speaking of course.

[randys1]

185. I cited opinion? No, i didnt...so you didnt read the report, has nothing to do with

opinion

Hey, we know what side of history you are on

you betcha

[NM_Birder]

188. If you read your own article, and still think it's fact.

Then you don't have to explain anything else. I get it.
take care, and good luck.

[randys1]

202. So you are here just to waste time, you got nothing and you know it...but you are being

successful in your tactics.

[NM_Birder]

206. Is the article you posted fact or not?

Don't deflect to my time usage, tell me again how the article you posted is fact.


I read it, did you ?

[randys1]

223. It is a fact that the investigation was done and they found 31 cases out of one billion votes

DO you have a study or investigation that says otherwise?

From a credible source?

No, you dont, why? Because voter fraud doesnt exist and everybody knows it


How many veterans died on foreign soil to protect the right of ALL Americans to vote?

[NM_Birder]

225. Don't play the veteran guilt card with me.

After declaring a statistical assumption regarding one billion votes, as "fact" over and over and over, you have little to say that can be taken seriously.

I don't think you understand what constitutes a "fact", and are clueless what flaws statistical sampling can overlook when used with a predetermined agenda. Take a deep breath, and try to understand what would be involved in "investigating" one billion votes, there is both a space-time and biological reason that is horse shit. Your "proof" is a statistical sampling projection, and the article clearly came to it's conclusion prior to the conclusion of the "investigation".

"voter fraud doesn't exist and everybody knows it" you get that fact from your article too ?

Your veteran comment is plopped in out of context , and every bit as desperate to breathe some life into your false premise as it appears.

[randys1]

226. Look who's still here LOL

I guess your work isnt done until all the polls close, distract right up to the last minute.


My veteran comment had nothing to do with you, I wouldnt want to know anything about you at this point.

I am not exaggerating when I tell you that supporting voter id is supporting an attack on America, this is not an exaggeration nor is it hyperbole and in fact I am suspecting over the next few years you are going to see more and more who are willing to say it out loud.

[NM_Birder]

229. you are replying to me, you do understand why I keep commenting back right ?

You cite statistical opinion as "fact", you write comments to me and then say they had nothing to do with me, you keep answering my posts then are confused that I'm still here ? Are you sure you're OK ? you're kinda spiraling.

At least you've finally given up pretending your article about the one billion votes investigation is "fact".

If you need to have the last word to feel good, Merry Christmas, next time you want to hijack my thread and tell people not to post, maybe you tell someone OTHER THAN ME . just a suggestion.
take care.

[randys1]

230. ...

fact meet wall meet teapartier

[HereSince1628]

98. At one point I read that WI id requirement to vote exceeded WI id requirement to register to vote

That really makes no rational sense but it makes perfect sense if A.L.E.C. provided boilerplate.

Personally I don't know what the big deal is about having id with an address and expiration date.

The polling place has my name in their book as a registered voter. If my picture on my V.A. ID is clearly ME how is it that an address or expiration date make a difference in my identity?

All these requirements are meant to eliminate the most commonly available photo ids from the pool of usable id.

[mercuryblues]

66. I aslo

have a voter registration card. When I applied to get it I had to prove where I lived, prove I am a US citizen and prove I was who I said I was.

Why the fuck should I have to do that every time I use that card when I vote?

It would be like telling people that engage in government social services that every time they get a Social Security check, you have to prove every thing all over again.

[kelly1mm]

126. In no state is a hunting license sufficient ID (where needed) for voting while college ID/other

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 02:54 PM - Edit history (1)

forms of ID (even utility bills) would not be sufficient ID.

[VanillaRhapsody]

129. no I will not...a Concealed carry counts..

Can you buy beer with Concealed carry?

Therfore point remains..

[kelly1mm]

139. Actually it does not. You cannot hunt legally without a hunting license. A concealed

carry permit and a hunting license are very different things.

If you want the world to know that you don't understand the difference between a hunting license and a concealed carry permit and to conflate the two in order to think you are making some type of pithy point I cannot stop you. However, when you are trying to influence the debate on an issue, it helps to not get sidetracked into losing procedural points. You are doing just that - losing a procedural point and going down swinging.

[VanillaRhapsody]

147. i am talking about voting...

[kelly1mm]

156. Why invite a long series of posts on a side issue by incorrectly saying you can vote with a hunting

license when you could have correctly stated concealed carry permit?

You do at least recognize there is a difference between the two and that you are at least technically incorrect in asserting that you can vote with a hunting license as a form of ID (where needed), correct?

[VanillaRhapsody]

159. I wrote an invitation?

[kelly1mm]

160. Nevermind. Have a nice rest of your day. nt

[randys1]

171. Alaska says otherwise, looks like to me, i wonder where else

http://www.elections.alaska.gov/vi_hv_vote_polls.php



I see hunting license I do not see student id...

Voter ID is unconstitutional, I love it how righty has changed the topic to WHAT id they can demand

they CANT demand ANY in America, dont know about anywhere else

[Glassunion]

201. In my state (commonwealth actually) College IDs are fine.

As well as...
Driver’s license
ID issued by any Commonwealth agency (I guess this would include a hunting license)
ID issued by the U.S. Government
U.S. passport
U.S. Armed Forces ID
Student ID
Employee ID
Non-photo ID issued by the Commonwealth
Non-photo ID issued by the U.S. Government
Firearm permit
Current utility bill
Current bank statement
Current paycheck
Government check

[unblock]

2. it's not id per se. it's restricting the particular forms of acceptable ids that's the problem

especially if the only acceptable forms of id involve a distant government office and a fee.

why, for instance, would an formerly valid but now expired id be a problem? it's not as if your name expires when the id does.

effectively forcing people to pay in order to vote amounts to a poll tax, which discriminates against the poor and the less mobile.

[NM_Birder]

7. not an answer. If you have to prove who you are to engage services, why not to vote ?

effectively forcing people to pay for ID to get government services is a social poverty tax.

[VanillaRhapsody]

9. because it is a solution looking for a problem..

And some people are poor and cannot afford to spend $200 to get birth certificate etc to obtain one...

[NM_Birder]

12. 25 bucks gets you small game in Texas. problem is,

you have to have ID to get a hunting licence.

[VanillaRhapsody]

15. do you have $200 to get a BC out of state?

Would you if you made $7.25 an hour?

[NM_Birder]

20. whats a BC ?

[VanillaRhapsody]

22. birth certificate..sheesh

[NM_Birder]

30. LOL. No i have mine.

It's in my deposit box, that I needed ID to get, along with my accounts.

I've had to have it replaced, it didn't cost me 200 bucks. and without ID you cannot function in society, and you know it.

the "sheeeesh" was precious, hope you laughed as hard as I did.
FOD .................lol = "far out dude" lol !

[VanillaRhapsody]

33. not everyone is as lucky as you...

My grandmother NEVER had a birth certificate and she got her SS and Medicare and voted all her life.

[NM_Birder]

37. you grandmother ever have ID ?

bet she did.

[VanillaRhapsody]

39. nope...no BC

[NM_Birder]

46. Sheeeesh....

never had bank account, never drove, never had credit card, never had a loan, never had any reason to have ID ?

Sheeesh, she is like the the example of the nation. Sheeesh, you win.

[Agschmid]

111. You are sort of an ass.

I'll take the hide if that how the jury decides... But really what's up with this poster?

[ieoeja]

169. That poster has been a MIRT candidate for awhile.

Other than the occasional odd post about birding, every post by that ass has either been anti-Dem or pre-Repub.

[NM_Birder]

198. just to know you care is enough for me.

[VanillaRhapsody]

234. dont kid yourself.

[VanillaRhapsody]

233. agreed

[VanillaRhapsody]

232. no she didnt....my grandfather her husband did...

Thanks for your concern

[randys1]

87. Proponents of Voter ID dont want minorities and students voting, period

[VanillaRhapsody]

21. then why isnt college ID valid? You have to do the

Same? Why? Because that would encourage young voters aka Democrats...

[B2G]

23. Because it isn't proof of state residency. nt

[VanillaRhapsody]

25. yes it is....

Because you have voter rolls

[unblock]

41. i believe there is a push to treat out-of-state college students as nonresidents.

no matter that they might live there 9+ months out of the year. they're probably liberals, you know.

in any event, id and residence are two different things. my employee badge is a photo id but doesn't have my address on it; my utility bills show my address and name but not my picture. between the two that should be plenty for any serious voter id requirement, but it's probably not enough in most states with voter id laws.

[Calista241]

53. When I was in college

We weren't allowed to get ID and vote because my taxes were paid in another state.

This was in the 90's, but essentially it was "no taxes, no vote." I did vote in my home state though.

[VanillaRhapsody]

34. thats not universal...my grandmother never had one at

All....

[VanillaRhapsody]

82. no....my grandmother never hd a BC and was

Never formally adopted.. its pretty simple to understand

[randys1]

89. Still not free and still unconstitutional and still ONLY about STOPPING minorities

and students from voting

[NM_Birder]

217. Why on earth do you think minorities and students are incapable of obtaining ID ?

maybe have a little more faith in the abilities of minorities and students. Seems almost condescending to just assume minorities and students can't get ID.


Students and minorities somehow are able to get drivers licences, why exactly do you think showing that ID is just too much for them to able to accomplish ?

[randys1]

224. Everybody please dont read this thread, Rove operatives are here to distract you

please ignore people who want to violate the Constitution and stop Americans from voting, they will do anything to stop you from voting.

They hate voting and for that matter they hate most Americans because too many of us are now Black or Latino or Gay or Asian or Muslim or Jewish or American Samoan or, well you get the point.

Personally I think anyone who supports voter ID is an enemy of one person one vote and one person one vote is what makes America, America.

I would think all Veterans who fought in foreign wars would be once again willing to fight to preserve the most precious possession an American has, the right to vote.

In fact I would be extremely confused if someone was willing to get on a uniform, fly thousands of miles to fight an enemy for our freedom but would support an overt attempt to only allow 95% of Americans to vote, did they fight for 100% of Americans to vote or just 95%?

Not suggesting a war, but we have fought wars elsewhere with the excuse that we were protecting our freedom and democracy, right?

Quite frankly I think the USA has not faced an enemy, to date, as dangerous as one who would seek to stop you from voting, can you think of one more dangerous?

[NM_Birder]

227. Here Ye Here Ye !

"too many of us are now black, or Latino, or Gay or Asian or Muslim " .............. the hell does that have to do with it. really. don't hide behind your soft racism of not believing minorities are capable of accomplishing one of the most basic needs to survive in a society.

Without identification, what can you legally do ? you can't work, drive, apply for credit,....... you can't even go to the bar without ID. Yet you seem to think simply by being a minority, you are so handicapped that you are forced to give up your veteran fought for right to vote ? Here in NM, you don't even have to be a citizen, and well give you a state drivers license ......... BECAUSE YOU NEED IDENTIFICATION TO EXIST IN SOCIETY. The only time you have a problem with ID is voting, why does anyone have to have ID for anything ? Why should I have to prove I'm not you ?

Again, I don't understand why you think minorities are incapable of having ID. Regardless of sex, religion, sexual orientation or even allergy to processed food .............. I'm the one that doesn't think asking everyone to prove they are who they are, when they cast the ballot for the most powerful government in the world, is somehow more difficult if you are a part of a minority group?

[randys1]

228. Ouch, I just realized I am cruising for a bruising, many on your side of the political aisle would

love to get folk like me banned from DU...

Have a nice day, ignore me

[unblock]

16. of course it's an answer, if you would bother to read it.

you're making the false claim that those opposed to the latest barrage of voter id laws want people to be able to show up with absolutely no identification and vote. that's simply not the case. requiring identification is reasonable; no one is disputing that.

but an expired student id from 10 years ago should be considered acceptable, and these voter id laws bar that and other easily acquired forms of identification, requiring more expensive, and harder to obtain forms of identification.

that's the problem.

[NM_Birder]

24. walk up and vote = no ID required

apply for SSI, or Food Stamps etc without ID not gonna happen.

[VanillaRhapsody]

26. why do you care about those? Democrat?

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. oh and I voted Yesterday....if my name wasnt on the rolls

Or if i already voted....i wouldnt be able to...its simple

[NM_Birder]

43. sheeeesh, you're like a hummingbird, you're so fast

I'm flattered you are so focused on this thread, you respond to more people faster than I can ever manage.
Sheeeesh, I'm impressed.



Sheeesh. lol

[VanillaRhapsody]

60. and sheeesh you are like a Republican

Who are low information voters...

[NM_Birder]

68. name calling so soon ?

Sheeeesh, I though you had more mustard than that.

[VanillaRhapsody]

69. are you pledging to vote for the winner of the Dem Primary

I am...are you?

[NM_Birder]

101. I pledge to vote for whomever is is the best qualified.

I'm silly that way, I keep my eyes open for most everything.

[VanillaRhapsody]

103. exactly what I thought...

not fooled for one minute....

[NM_Birder]

106. I've never been a drone, never will be, voting is the supreme exercise in personal freedom.

what if an Independent candidate is more in line with your beliefs ?
I assume your logic says to vote Dem anyway ?

[VanillaRhapsody]

108. I'm not a drone...I'm a Democrat...just like both my grandparents who actually voted for FDR!

You calling them drones too?

The fact that you think someone calling themselves a Democrat is a bad thing says it all!

Read my sig....I don't suffer fools lightly...

[NM_Birder]

113. Never said someone calling themselves Democrat was a bad thing. You have comprehension issues.

You said you would vote for the Primary nominee, without knowing WHO that would be. I'm not like that, I like to know something about the candidate before making my choice two years in advance.

You and I are just different, and being the style of Democrat you seem to be, it is intolerable to you, that I do not shadow your footsteps, nor bow to your self important rule of thought.

Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat, yet I am very on board with what he has to say. What if he decides NOT to call himself a Democrat
am I still allowed to like him? factor that into your crystal ball of answers, you don't know for sure he will call himself a Democrat....do you?

Gotta go get ready for tonight, take care.

[VanillaRhapsody]

116. Yes and so did my grandparents...they were loyal Democrats ALL their lives...

They were not drones....as you suggest Democrats are...

If Bernie doesn't become a Democrat he cannot be supported on this board...PERIOD.

Why didn't you ask about Rand Paul too?


Libertarians...ppppppffffffttttt!

[NM_Birder]

130. You think Bernie Sanders is a Libertarian "too" ?

I suggest you might be so focused, you've blinded yourself, that you've become so confident you have deafened yourself to others. I'm sure you're waiting for the bloodbath to end tomorrow, so you can blame Democrats for not voting, or the Republicans for stealing.

The unemployment number is a joke, the ACA is going to cripple those most in need because of the deductible sucker punch. I think I'll learn a little more about the candidate before voting this coming election cycle.

"PERIOD" ......... you alert an awful lot don't you ?

[VanillaRhapsody]

132. did I say he was?

And I rarely to never alert....so wrong on 2 counts right there!

[NM_Birder]

135. did you read what you wrote ?

[VanillaRhapsody]

146. I wasnt referring to Bernie....

Who I like.....


Reading is fundamental!

[NM_Birder]

150. what you meant, and what you wrote are not the same.

take your own advice, or change your post.

[NM_Birder]

219. Bernie Sanders is not a Democrat right now, he's Independent..

Yet you yourself admit you support what his beliefs are.

What would your grandparents think ? What would happen if a complete unelectable candidate that polarized the electorate to the point of an inability to accomplish anything was nominated,........ and Bernie ran Independent ?

I know you would still vote for the nominee regardless, but how would you make the argument that party loyalty trumps good decision making ?

I may be wrong,....do you agree with Bernie Sanders political agenda and beliefs ? Ignore the Independent part, pretend he's a Democrat.

[VanillaRhapsody]

220. yes i do support them. .but the difference is..

I am a realist not an ideologue...just like my FDRvoting grandparents were.

[NM_Birder]

222. He's not a Democrat, yet you support him ?

let me get this out of the way, ...your grandparents are not involved in this discussion, so regardless how you use their voting record to try and hit over the head with it, it's not a factor. I don't care if you want to keep using thier voting record to prove your thoughts, just know I'm not factoring thier voting record in this discussion.

If you admit to supporting Sanders, an Independent,...... then I think you are something other than "realist" or "ideologue", it means you are using common sense and your own ability to decide what is right, and not just what is party expected. You are using your own decision making ability,.........it means you are like me.

[VanillaRhapsody]

231. yes i support him...just like HE supports Democrats

I just wouldnt vote for him over a Democrat. Pretty easy to understand if you werent trying your best to paint me into some corner with some "gotcha" line of questioning. Oh and if you have more than a sophomoric level understanding of politics. You have to understand its NOT all about you and what you want ...

[randys1]

90. I have NEVER shown ID to vote and I have voted many times, NEVER

[mercuryblues]

118. when

I got my voter registration card, I had to show ID. why should I have to show it when I vote.

That would be like showing the mail person ID when they deliver the SSI check.

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. my grandmother didnt have to....she didnt have a BC

[randys1]

85. 31 cases per one billion votes...31 cases per one billion votes

[upaloopa]

91. You have proven who you are when you register

The id for services shows the provider who will reimburse them.
There is no need for voter ID other than to restrict voting and you know that I am sure or you've been living in a tree trunk somewhere.

[randys1]

173. Unconstitutional poll tax and anyone who supports Voter ID supports voter

suppression, I would say more but I dont want to be banned.



I am impressed how many people you have distracted from the matter at hand...

[COLGATE4]

3. Possibly because the right to the vote

is a Constitutional right awarded all citizens over the age of 18. There is no Constitutional right to engage government services.

[LanternWaste]

6. I think the rational view takes one step backwards in the process and asks

I think the rational view takes one step backwards in the process and asks, "what is the precise reason Voter ID laws have been so vociferously mandated only in the here and now? Was the electoral system consistently abused to such a degree as to warrant this in the past? If not, what is the precise and relevant difference between then and now..."

[randys1]

93. Too many minorities and students all of a sudden are voting, that is the difference

BTW, I have been voting longer than most of you and I have never shown ID

[spanone]

11. tennessee...-Tennessee handgun carry permit with your photo

-Tennessee driver license with your photo
-United States Passport
-Photo ID issued by the Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security
-Photo ID issued by the federal or Tennessee state government
-United States Military photo ID
-Tennessee handgun carry permit with your photo

http://www.tn.gov/sos/election/photoID.htm

[NM_Birder]

18. You need ID to get every single one of your examples.

[spanone]

27. these are accepted i.d.'s to vote in tennessee.

What IDs are acceptable?
Any of the following IDs may be used, even if expired:

Tennessee driver license with your photo
United States Passport
Photo ID issued by the Tennessee Department of Safety and Homeland Security
Photo ID issued by the federal or Tennessee state government
United States Military photo ID
Tennessee handgun carry permit with your photo
What IDs are not acceptable?
College student IDs and photo IDs not issued by the federal or Tennessee state government are NOT acceptable. This includes county or city issued photo IDs, such as library cards, and photo IDs issued by other states.

Who is exempt?
Voters who vote absentee by mail (view requirements here)
Voters who are residents of a licensed nursing home or assisted living center and who vote at the facility
Voters who are hospitalized
Voters with a religious objection to being photographed
Voters who are indigent and unable to obtain a photo ID without paying a fee
What if I registered by mail and am voting in my first election?
Federal law requires first time voters who register by mail to present one of the following:

A current photo identification with voter’s name and photo OR
If the photo identification is expired, the voter must also present one of the following: a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck or other government document that shows the voter’s name and address.

[notrightatall]

32. Too bad you don't need an ID to post on this board.

If you did, i bet a John Birch Society membership card would not "cut it."

[NM_Birder]

61. you don't ?

certainly have to adhere to a pre-approved set of allow abe opinions, any deviation from the approved script will not be tolerated. The general theme nobody will admit, is that ID is necessary. You know it as well as I do, but I understand why you can't say it.

The "John Birch" joke was pretty good though .....I'll give you an LOL.

[VanillaRhapsody]

72. right a voter registration that says Democrat...

We are an exclusive club...

[NM_Birder]

102. seriously, how can you have this much energy to follow every thing I say ?

I'm impressed as well as flattered, but christ, you're like the energizer bunny.

I could start a pool, and bet on times like horse racing.

[VanillaRhapsody]

104. And that is a bad thing how?

sorry you cannot keep up with the Democrats....that explains ALOT!

[NM_Birder]

187. two words "a lot"

it explains I can't type as fast.

[VanillaRhapsody]

189. two words..

Who cares?

This reply came days later.....you've had plenty of time...

[NM_Birder]

190. I was busy having a life this week-end.

you know that, you've been talking with me this morning.
plenty of time for what ?

[VanillaRhapsody]

193. because I have a job

But then I wasnt the one counting was I?

[NM_Birder]

197. ? I'm very happy you have a job, I'm very proud of you..... ?

is that what you were looking for ?

You were the one counting days since I replied, so yeah, I think you were the one counting.
Dave and Busters just opened here, hope it's as cool as the one in Denver, gonna go watch my Giants lose to the Colts tonight and see.


take care, and if that's sexist or insulting in some way,...... just have a nice day.

[NM_Birder]

192. I'm leaving again, just to keep you up to date.

But, there is a good chance I will be alive tomorrow, and I might check this conversation.
It's bee very educational, I've enjoyed it alot.

[JustAnotherGen]

36. What if you don't engage government services?

Or can you define a type of government service?

In NJ I have a non picture voting ID card.

I don't understand why a picture ID would be necessary at the polls ever.

If a kid is 18 and has just turned 18 - and lets say their parents engage in government services - shouldn't them having been on their parents services without a picture ID be enough?

Shouldn't a Social Security card be enough to get a valid ID showing your precinct?

[SheilaT]

56. Social Security cards are specifically not intended to be an ID card.

Unfortunately, they took that statement off them a long time ago.

[JustAnotherGen]

97. That's unfortunate

Last edited Sat Nov 1, 2014, 07:28 AM - Edit history (1)

Because allowing people to use that to register to vote is a pretty simple solution. Add in a utility bill or something showing your address shoud be all anyone needs.

I have a fear that people will push for a national picture voting ID.

All that will do is make it easier to disenfranchise those whose appearance some people believe should prevent someone from voting.

[Bjorn Against]

40. No surprise to see you supporting racist voter ID laws

You seem to take the right wing position on every issue so it is no surprise to see you here defending laws that disenfranchise minority voters.

There has never been a big problem with voter fraud, there have been big problems with the disenfranchisement of people of color and voter ID laws only make those problems worse.

[NM_Birder]

49. racist how ?

[Bjorn Against]

50. It is well known that minorities are far less likely to have IDs

The law would disproportionately harm minority voters as I am sure you are well aware.

[NM_Birder]

52. It's well known ? explain WHY it's less likely ?

I'm sick of people suggesting that minorities are somehow less able to navigate the waters of gaining identification, yet can't explain WHY they think minorities are not responsible enough to gain identification.

[Bjorn Against]

59. No one said they are less responsible

Low income people are less likely to have IDs because IDs cost money. You also have to go to the DMV to get one which is difficult for people without a car.

Admit it, you are a Republican. You always take the right-wing position on every issue you post about. You support disenfranchising people because you know the people harmed by voter ID laws don't tend to vote for the racist political party.

[hughee99]

47. We should get rid of the rule requiring ID to apply for government social services. n/t

[Cleita]

55. +1

[VanillaRhapsody]

62. are they preregistered for them? do they have "rolls"?

Like voting does?

[hughee99]

63. If you're in America and you need help, you get help. n/t

[VanillaRhapsody]

64. thats bullshit and you know it...

Many Republican states didnt expand Medicare....and if you make just $7.25 an hour....well you fucking go without...

By the way. Govt assistance is limitted to families and the disabled.....single folks not so much ....oh and TANF is limited to 5 years and requires work or school...

[hughee99]

71. I'm confused. I suggested that no ID SHOULD be required to receive services.

I thought you were asking how things WOULD work if we did that, and I was saying that anyone who needs help would get help.

I wasn't commenting on how things are, but how they SHOULD be.

[VanillaRhapsody]

73. bullshit...you came to troll Democrats..

You think you are so special we wont notice?

[hughee99]

74. Yes, you caught me. I signed up in 2004 and made more than 12K posts

since then to establish myself in hopes of one day making a post like this and it was all for nothing.

People who need help in America should get help. If they don't have a "valid ID" they should STILL get help. Please explain to me why I'm wrong.

[VanillaRhapsody]

75. and that proves you are a Democrat?

Are you voting for the Dem that wins the Primary?

[hughee99]

78. I suggested that people who need assistance shouldn't need an ID to get it.

You called me a troll for saying that.

Let's take another whack at this, please explain to me how my suggestion is a bad one or is somehow NOT in line with Democratic ideals?

[VanillaRhapsody]

79. then why are you trolling me?

I Dont support voter ID

[hughee99]

88. I'm trolling YOU???

I responded to the OP. YOU replied to ME. You asked ME a question then you called ME a troll. If you didn't respond to me, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all, but if you're going to continue to reply to my posts (and don't think I haven't noticed that you haven't actually answered my questions), I'm going to defend myself from being called a troll.

[VanillaRhapsody]

105. NO....I was talking to someone else and YOU chimed in!

sorry to disappoint you

[hughee99]

117. Someone created a thread and I replied

To the OP. I didn't realize a thread is a "conversation" between the OP and the first person to reply to it. First, you're way off on you opinion of my behavior, but more to the point, why do you keep replying to me WITHOUT answering my question?

How is my belief that anyone who needs help should be able to get it even if they don't have an ID "trolling". All you've done is accuse me of trolling and avoid having any discussion of what I actually said. I'm starting to think YOU are trolling ME.

[NM_Birder]

100. dude, you are snapping at a poster that agrees with you.

and then you called him a troll ?

he is on yours and your grandmother's side.

[VanillaRhapsody]

107. I'm not a dude....

I'm a Democrat....how about you?

This thread reeks of the Discussionist!

[NM_Birder]

109. I am the Borg, a grain of sand in the sunbathed beach of collective conscience.

I apologize for the "dude" comment, it was more a generic social term.

[VanillaRhapsody]

112. So are you calling my grandparents members of the Borg?

my grandfather was Civilian Conservation Corps....and eventually became Conservation director of his state....

[NM_Birder]

114. I. am. not. referring. to. your. family. in. any. way.

can't be any more clear than that.

I am waiting for you're opinion on if it's OK to like Bernie Sanders IF he decides NOT to run as a Democrat ?
not that i will factor your opinion into my decision, just want to know your thoughts on Bernie as D=good, Bernie as I= bad.

[VanillaRhapsody]

119. OH yes you are...

i am a lifelong democrat just like they were...you called me Borg because of it..so you can lie and deny it all you want

[NM_Birder]

122. you will vote for Democratic nominee regardless of who they are,

You've made your choice years in advance, regardless of events to come. As it appears your family does as well. I understand your mentality, I just don't agree,........ it's OK,......... I'm allowed.

I, as in me ........ will not be brow beat into cheering for a nominee, without even knowing WHO that nominee will be. I, as in me, ..... will not be quilted, bullied nor lectured into "vote committing" for a Democratic nominee 2 years from the election.
Your family is free to do WHATEVER they want, as I'm sure they have and will continue to do.

What if Hillary IS in fact the Democratic nominee, and Sanders runs as Independent in 2016?
Not your choice, I know you will vote for the Democrat nominee regardless who they are or why they are nominated. I like Sanders, I'd vote for Sanders over Hillary in the blink of an eye in this scenario, and I'm not the only one.

Now because Sanders calls himself an "Independent", or a "Socialist Democrat" I suppose, can you accept the fact that I will
make my choice based on whomever I think is best........ or out of sheer self importance, will you have to alert on me for liking Bernie Sanders ? What if Bill Richardson becomes the Nominee ? I'm from NM, I've lived the Richardson style of government, I wouldn't vote for Richardson over Sanders FOR. ANY. REASON. would you ?
I guess we'll see.

[NM_Birder]

115. forgot to explain the "borg" comment.

it was a joke.

claiming neither male nor female description.
you should laugh more, it's good for you.

[VanillaRhapsody]

120. i didnt say it was sexist did I?

Last edited Mon Nov 3, 2014, 01:49 PM - Edit history (2)

I forgot one word....but you knew what I meant..

[NM_Birder]

121. Slow down. you're not making sense now.

[NCTraveler]

136. YAFI. nt.

[VanillaRhapsody]

137. uh wut?

[NCTraveler]

140. Exactly. nt.

[VanillaRhapsody]

142. yeah....considering it was a false charge if playing the

Misogynist card....which I never claimed.

You do understand that righ? He or she wasnt accusing me of being sexist right? You knew that right?

Sure you did ..

[NCTraveler]

144. Yeah. Nailed it. With an Ice cold beverage. nt.

[VanillaRhapsody]

145. please prove it...

[NCTraveler]

151. Prove what? That you are drinking a cold beverage?

I have made no claim at all. You just jumped the "prove it" shark. I don't think this can get any better.

[VanillaRhapsody]

153. sure you didnt...

I totally believe you...

[NCTraveler]

155. It is very easy for you to post the quote of mine you are asking me to prove.

What have I said that you are asking me to prove? Please quote me. Yes, I am actually asking you to quote me. Can you believe that?

[VanillaRhapsody]

157. k

You agreed with Birder....back it up or shut it up. Its that easy..

[NCTraveler]

161. Quote please.

I have no clue what you are talking about. You are the one asking me to prove something. I just want you to quote me as to what you are asking me to prove. It really is that simple. You seem to want to make it as difficult as you possibly can. What did I say that you want me to prove. I will be happy to do so. I am even asking you to quote me.

When did I even allude to agreeing with Birder? You have now made a claim. Where it came from I have no clue. Please quote me as to where I have agreed with Birder. Bet ya can't. Won't stop you from making the claim though.

BTW. Probably some of the best scones I have ever had. IGRDS

[NM_Birder]

152. All claws all the time righ ?

[VanillaRhapsody]

154. NOW you are starting to sound sexist...

Come on you can do better....

[NM_Birder]

199. If I said pointy teeth, would that make me "vampire-ist"

[VanillaRhapsody]

200. are you a man?

And you cannot make the connection? Afterall...you seemed to understand the implication of claws right off so dont feign innocence...

[NM_Birder]

207. Don't look for everything to be so offensive.

Do male Lions have claws ?

Or is it that you just assume that because I'm a man I MUST be sexist ? You know that makes YOU sexist right ?

[VanillaRhapsody]

213. you fucking know damn well THAT was NOT what

That refers to.....and too larmte we already saw your undies....we cannot unsee them now!

[NM_Birder]

214. why don't you leave my "undies" out of your imagination. that's offensive.

I don't care if you meant "undies" in a cute childish way, ............it's creepy.

[VanillaRhapsody]

218. oh puhleeze!

Gmafb

I see London I see France..I see Birders underpants! So "creepy" even kids talk about them!

STILL grasping at straws...

[NM_Birder]

221. interesting comparison.

children mocking each other for fun and sport by pulling each others pants down is an acceptable example of your rationale, to mask your sexist beliefs toward me being male, as well as offering you comfort in your self prescribed delusional superiority.

Did you try to be the playground bully, but couldn't, so now online you have repressed courage issues ?

[bravenak]

51. Nice to see you are back just in time to help us through in our time of need.

So kind of you.

[NM_Birder]

54. that's what I'm here for. you're welcome.

[bravenak]

57. I'm sure you are.

I am always welcome, I know. I find you amuse me to no end.

[NM_Birder]

99. just that you care enough to follow me is enough, your amusement is just the cherry on top.

[randys1]

175. Voting, they hate it

[bravenak]

178. Doing anything to try to stop it.

Sorry ass shit.

[randys1]

180. What would PAUL say? GOTV GOTV GOTV....that is what

https://twitter.com/DidTheyLetUVote

[Starry Messenger]

110. *Standing ovation*

[SheilaT]

58. My mother never had a birth certificate, because she was born at home in 1916,

and apparently the birth was never registered. But being Catholic, she had a baptismal certificate which was nearly as good. When she went to get a passport sometime in the 1970's, they were willing to accept the baptismal certificate, but I also think she had to get the State of New York, where she was born, to issue her a letter stating they'd searched their records for a birth certificate and there was none on file.

I wouldn't be surprised if when she first got a driver's license in the 1930's, she didn't have to show any serious proof of identity to get it. So over the years she built up the documentation she needed.

[SomethingFishy]

65. Well possibly because voter fraud is a fantasy dreamed up by the GOP as they

just can't fucking figure out why they lose elections, and Welfare/EBT/TANF fraud is real and costs the taxpayers money.

You think knowing where your polling place is isn't enough of an ID? Exactly what kind of voter fraud are you trying to stop by requiring an ID from a registered voter?

[Capt. Obvious]

67. And while we're at it, what's wrong with poll taxes exactly?

I mean if we have to pay taxes to support government services then why not pay a tax to vote?

[VanillaRhapsody]

76. I hope for Halloween you are dressed as Capt. Facetious

[upaloopa]

94. Where did you live before you came here?

Poll taxes were means by which voting was restricted just as voter ID is that's what is wrong with it!

[ieoeja]

172. Apparently, nobody gets sarcasm anymore.

You did an excellent job demonstrating faulty logic in the OP. Everybody responding clearly did not get it.

[Capt. Obvious]

70. This guy

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/oct/27/texas-vote-id-proof-certificate-minority-law

[randys1]

77. 31 cases per one billion votes...31 cases per one billion votes

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/08/06/a-comprehensive-investigation-of-voter-impersonation-finds-31-credible-incidents-out-of-one-billion-ballots-cast/



So to stop 31 votes out of every ONE BILLION, lets require unconstitutionally I might add, ID's which will certainly prevent hundreds of thousands if not millions from voting.

What kind of math is that?

[otohara]

84. Nice - Well Said

[upaloopa]

86. False equivalency there

Voting is not a service it is the way we participate in our democracy. When you register to vote your information is checked out by the registrar of voters and you are entered on the voting rolls if you are a legal voter. Nothing else is required but your signature when you vote.
To access government services the government seeks reimbursement from agencies like HUD and Medicaid The identification shows that you qualify and the agency can be reimbursed for the services.

[H2O Man]

128. Legalize Lonnie Anderson's hair!

[NM_Birder]

134. DONE ! it's already legal.

Bailey was WAY more attractive in attitude, personality AND looks !

[LadyHawkAZ]

141. Stop charging for basic ID cards, might be a better solution than abolish ID

Charge for driver's licences, but make basic ID free. There's a lot of other areas where photo ID is a necessity of life now, so at least one ought to be free and easy to get.

[NM_Birder]

148. That makes perfect sense.....so everybody else will hate it.

I think it is perfectly rational, and not too much to ask.

Identification is helpful, not punitive, you need ID to exist in society. making ID's free solves the problem, .....

[randys1]

174. You won this round, up to a million voters mostly minorities and students WONT be allowed to

vote, but you wont win down the road.

I just hope those who hate democracy and voting hang around long enough to watch the transition from white privilege to justice.

[NM_Birder]

181. I won ? is that a fact ? or just your opinion ?

[randys1]

183. Not sure if you will take the senate, but you won in that you and the SC 5 managed

to stop lots of folks from voting

I mean you ARE here DEFENDING the unconstitutional voter id laws?

right????

[NM_Birder]

186. Are you still taking to me ? FACT: I'm a little surprised.

kinda curious why you can only skip around what you want so badly to say.

FACT, I'm not running for office so I can absolutely guarantee I will not "take the Senate" ..... fact.

I would stand a better chance of winning the lottery, if I bought a ticket ........ fact.

fact...I don't know what an SC-5 is.

FACT: You answered my post to another DUers idea, on making ID free of charge, to eliminate the childish debate on how it's impossible for some people to gain Identification.

FACT: I went to Subway today and had a foot long pastrami on cheddar bread, with salt and vinegar chips, but the root beer was mixed weird and tasted funny.

Fact: use more question marks, it totally gives you credibility.

[jwirr]

149. As to your original question regarding voter ID and an ID for applying for social services. I am

assuming you are talking about things like food stamps, welfare, energy assistance etc. Voting is a right that is mine automatically the day I turn 18. The social services are something I must apply for and be eligible for with certain requirements involved. I am do not automatically have a right to them. One of the requirements is to prove where I live and/or was born. Usually we use a birth certificate or an drivers license because they have the information we need on them. They identify us in order to prove we are qualified. There is also the difference in asking for something when we apply for a social service. I am not asking when I register to vote - I already have the right to vote.

[ZombieHorde]

163. Three reasons to be against voter ID.

1. Unless the ID is free, it's a poll tax. Voting is supposed to be absolutely free.

2. It suppresses voting, and voting is something we are expected to value.

3. The reason for the voter IDs is to fight against voter fraud, but voter fraud isn't a problem. We shouldn't restrict people just to stop something that isn't happening.

Should the idea of identification just be abolished ?

Hmmm...an interesting idea. I would have to think about this.

[Lars39]

208. I had to show documentation in order to get my Voter Registration Card.

Why is my Voter Registration Card not acceptable?

[NM_Birder]

209. what documentation ?

[Lars39]

210. I had a driver's license and an electric bill or something.

Then I was issued a Voter Registration Card, which was supposed to be all the proof I would ever need to vote. If they are not accepting a Voter Registration Card, which they issued, then requiring further ID is deliberately keeping people from voting.

[tenderfoot]

215. You're still here?

[NM_Birder]

216. If I'm not, with whom are you speaking ?

And if I am, why would you ask ?