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Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:51 AM

America is Dead

Found this on fb this morning, and thought I'd share. It really hits home.



I’m simply waiting for some Conservative to tell me that America is the will of the people, and this is the people’s will, so it’s America.

That’s so untrue as to be laughable. America is a set of ideas that our Founders thought were so important that they protected those ideas even from the will of the people.

America is an idea, one that we used to believe in. These people we’re electing have lost those core values.

<snip>

Equal opportunity is an American core value...

Service to country is an American core value...

Being your own man – not paying for the sins of your father – that’s a core American value...

<snip>

We elect leaders that believe that a beating heart is a person with rights that supersede its host, but that paper-and-ink corporations, by virtue of their amassed resources, have the same rights as the flesh-and-blood component parts of which they are made.

We imprison our citizens for drug crimes because it’s too expensive to rehabilitate them, but we rehabilitate our corporations from their failures at huge expense because they’re too important to fail.

We apparently now believe that liberty means protecting everyone’s freedom to take from each other with impunity, that we no longer have the right to demand that our government set the rules in favor of the many instead of the few.


http://www.onyxtruth.com/2014/11/05/america-is-dead/

81 replies, 10246 views

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Arrow 81 replies Author Time Post
Reply America is Dead (Original post)
mnhtnbb Nov 2014 OP
shenmue Nov 2014 #1
mnhtnbb Nov 2014 #2
yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #7
shenmue Nov 2014 #8
mnhtnbb Nov 2014 #12
shenmue Nov 2014 #14
get the red out Nov 2014 #41
shenmue Nov 2014 #52
hifiguy Nov 2014 #58
shenmue Nov 2014 #60
hifiguy Nov 2014 #61
shenmue Nov 2014 #62
Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #63
father founding Nov 2014 #40
J_J_ Nov 2014 #53
Art_from_Ark Nov 2014 #66
MoonRiver Nov 2014 #10
mnhtnbb Nov 2014 #13
TNNurse Nov 2014 #23
jwirr Nov 2014 #30
kcass1954 Nov 2014 #46
shenmue Nov 2014 #50
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #71
hifiguy Nov 2014 #48
shenmue Nov 2014 #49
geardaddy Nov 2014 #55
hifiguy Nov 2014 #56
geardaddy Nov 2014 #57
Nay Nov 2014 #78
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #70
liberal_at_heart Nov 2014 #3
mnhtnbb Nov 2014 #5
deutsey Nov 2014 #11
mnhtnbb Nov 2014 #15
ProfessorGAC Nov 2014 #79
deutsey Nov 2014 #80
ProfessorGAC Nov 2014 #81
Myrina Nov 2014 #25
SammyWinstonJack Nov 2014 #34
RKP5637 Nov 2014 #16
ReRe Nov 2014 #21
brush Nov 2014 #24
Eleanors38 Nov 2014 #64
postulater Nov 2014 #4
Thenewire Nov 2014 #6
shenmue Nov 2014 #9
RKP5637 Nov 2014 #17
ReRe Nov 2014 #22
SammyWinstonJack Nov 2014 #36
budkin Nov 2014 #18
vlyons Nov 2014 #19
Triana Nov 2014 #20
heaven05 Nov 2014 #26
Orsino Nov 2014 #27
Puzzledtraveller Nov 2014 #28
FSogol Nov 2014 #29
KamaAina Nov 2014 #51
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #72
walkerbait41 Nov 2014 #31
Cryptoad Nov 2014 #32
kag Nov 2014 #33
mnhtnbb Nov 2014 #44
world wide wally Nov 2014 #35
appalachiablue Nov 2014 #37
TBF Nov 2014 #38
locdlib Nov 2014 #39
mnhtnbb Nov 2014 #45
AZ Progressive Nov 2014 #42
jillan Nov 2014 #43
marions ghost Nov 2014 #54
hunter Nov 2014 #47
KittyKat13 Nov 2014 #59
shenmue Nov 2014 #68
Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #65
WinkyDink Nov 2014 #74
Warren DeMontague Nov 2014 #75
Beausoir Nov 2014 #67
maced666 Nov 2014 #69
bhikkhu Nov 2014 #73
Name removed Nov 2014 #76
uppityperson Nov 2014 #77

Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:52 AM

1. I'm hiding under the bed

Anybody want to join me?

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Response to shenmue (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:54 AM

2. You're not alone.

I don't want to read the papers. I certainly don't want to watch the news.
I really feel like I'm in mourning.

The irony of those red states voting for minimum wage increases while at the same time electing
Senators that want to eliminate the minimum wage seems symbolic of some strange schizophrenia
on the part of voters. It's really hard to believe people can be so stupid. But, there it is!

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:02 AM

7. Republicans supposedly believe in states rights

 

So no I am not shocked by the props that were passed. They just don't want the federal government having a minimum wage. They could care less if an individual state has a minimum wage.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:03 AM

8. I want to adopt a cat

just so I can have some company under here.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:06 AM

12. My husband wants us to get another kitty. Our last kitty boy

joined his brother at the Rainbow Bridge about 18 months ago. For me, I'm
not up for the work (read litter box scooping) involved and happy with
just having our dog. But I think a pet is a good idea! I start
off every morning walking Snowy for 45-50 minutes and it's my favorite
time of day--being outside--having time to reflect on nature and its
beauty.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:11 AM

14. Hugs

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 12:28 PM

41. My dog helps me

Petting a dog makes a person feel better. Walking a dog is meditation.

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Response to get the red out (Reply #41)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:01 PM

52. Yes

Very true.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:07 PM

58. Do it. Adopting a homeless critter is one of the best things

 

anyone can do. I adopted both my cats - they both are now at the Rainbow Bridge because of kidney failure - and it was the best thing I have ever done in my life. They were wonderful companions and I was inconsolable when they passed.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #58)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 07:01 PM

60. I adopted a dog years ago

We had her for nine years and she went to Heaven last year. She was awesome!

Hope she is playing at the Rainbow Bridge with your buddies.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #60)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 08:56 PM

61. Max was shy boy and would just watch.

 

Butch would definitely have something to say. He was a big ol' guy with enough personality for two cats.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #61)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 08:58 PM

62. :)

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Response to shenmue (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:12 PM

63. "When I went into winter camp I always took plenty of novels

 

and tobacco, and usually a cat," reported Jim Christian, a line rider for the J A Ranch in the Pandle (of Texas? c 1886). "A cat and a briar pipe were lots of company when a fellow spent months shut off from the world."

Description of line rider's life, isolated in 1-rm huts while maintaining fences on the mammoth ranches of the day.

THE COWBOYS, Eds. of Time-Life Books, text by William H. forbis, NY, 1973.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 12:08 PM

40. whats the msm's agenda ?

 

The people are stupid because they are trained to be stupid by the media and those who own the media, the question is why ?

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:06 PM

53. Koch brothers wanted the senate bad- paid people to steal for senate, didn't care about referendums

 



That is the only thing that makes sense to me.

Everyone else is trying to make sense out of corporate media manufacturing consent nonsense.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:29 PM

66. In the case of Arkansas, at least, minimum wage was a state constitutional issue

Now that it's passed and part of the state consitution, it will be difficult for politicians to tamper with.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:04 AM

10. Right there with you.

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Response to MoonRiver (Reply #10)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:07 AM

13. Good one!

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Response to shenmue (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:52 AM

23. I was actually grateful

To work a 12 hr shift at the hospital yesterday. I was totally disconnected from the media.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:38 AM

30. I would like to hide also. But I have to watch for the next shoe to fall. Which safety net program

will be stripped to get more money for our wars? Who will be starving tomorrow? Who will commit suicide because he can no longer provide for his family?

I need to watch because someone needs to witness the fall of our nation. Someone has to ring the fire alarm.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:21 PM

46. i'm right there with you. I've got a news boycott going on.

I've been watching House Hunters, Real Housewives of wherever-the-fuck-they-are-this-week, and non-stop Hallmark Christmas movies.

God love him, Mr. k hasn't had the pretend news on since early Tuesday evening.

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Response to kcass1954 (Reply #46)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:58 PM

50. Yay!

It's the Weather Channel for me. Just some nice person pointing at things and talking about clouds.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #50)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:19 AM

71. What, no old people yelling at clouds???

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Response to shenmue (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:50 PM

48. I will bring some beer and sandwiches

 

if that helps.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #48)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:57 PM

49. Thank you

Good of you to share.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #48)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 03:53 PM

55. What about travel money?

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Response to geardaddy (Reply #55)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:03 PM

56. I see what you did there......

 

I miss that guy.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #56)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:06 PM

57. hehe.

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Response to geardaddy (Reply #55)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 09:59 AM

78. Stop that. I couldn't stand that guy.

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Response to shenmue (Reply #1)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:15 AM

70. I'm already with you!

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:56 AM

3. America has been dying for 30 years.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:58 AM

5. I'd say longer. I date the decline from the JFK assassination.

That was the beginning of the end from my perspective.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:04 AM

11. I also believe that was the turning point

Reagan helped to lock the decline into place and accelerated it.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:14 AM

15. He sure did. We saw him start when he was Gov of California and we were living there.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #11)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 10:03 AM

79. Not Trying To One-Up You Two. . .

. . .but i think it started when they ignored Eisenhower about the MIC.

When the war hero, soon to be leaving two term president says "watch out for these guys" and they made that whole warning fade into oblivion, the game was already afoot.

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Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #79)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 10:51 AM

80. Not one-upping at all

You're just putting it in its larger, historical context.



Now, I'm not trying to one-up you here, but I believe this can even be traced back further to the failed "business coup" against FDR that Smedley Butler exposed in the '30s.

The interests behind that attempt to replace FDR with Butler went on become the MIC during WWII (wheeling and dealing with the Nazis as well as the Allies) and were involved after the war in the black ops activities around the world that benefited it geopolitically and financially (Iran, Guatemala, Cuba, Congo, etc.).

Although I don't think Eisenhower's hands were entirely clean, he did see the danger the MIC/CIA posed to America and tried to warn us. With JFK, it's well-documented that he constantly butted heads with the MIC, threatened to smash the CIA, and was hated for what happened in the Bay of Pigs, his efforts to pull troops out of Vietnam, and his behind-the-scenes talks with Krushchev and Castro to thaw out the Cold War (I base a lot of this on James Douglass's book JFK and the Unspeakable).

I don't think JFK was a saint, but I do think he posed a genuine political threat to the MIC and that they were concerned about his re-election. In my theory (and that's all this is based on the research I've done) JFK was taken out by the "Murder, Inc." crowd in a more effective way than the "business coup" could do to FDR in the '30s.

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Response to deutsey (Reply #80)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 11:06 AM

81. We're Of Like Minds

I agree with you on Butler as well.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:00 AM

25. Try, the start of the Industrial Revolution.

As soon as rich dudes realized they could institutionalize mistreatment of employees & oppression of poor people, and get others to buy into it, it was on.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Reply #5)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:51 AM

34. Bobby Kennedy...so much promise.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:27 AM

16. Yes, it has been. And it's not just about R, D and I. It is a dying country falling behind the

rest of the world as money and greed are the virtues of today's America.

People do not count and are seen as an obstacle to be overcome and one slick/sick way to do that is to get people to vote against their best interests through fear and propaganda.

The goal is to eliminate the masses from the prosperity equation, but the masses have been dumbed down so much, uneducated and propagandized that the masses are incapable in today's "new" America to make intelligent choices when they vote. And a significant number also sit home on their asses than vote, and many do not have the foggiest idea what is going on in today's "new" America with respect to the political and financial future of the country.

Hence, they cede power to the oligarchs, crooks and manipulators over and over again.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:50 AM

21. I'd say...

... it begun to die the day Harry Ship Truman signed that "National Security Act" back in 1947, which turned the wartime OSS into the peacetime CIA and on later to the creation of the NSA.

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:57 AM

24. Citizens United was the final blow

Until it and dark money it allows is overturned the country is doomed to right wing, neo=liberal/austerity bullshit

(Kansas is a great example of it, and it's a failed experiment). Fascism is the next stop on the rush to the right — and

with all the out of control cop incidents who can say we aren't very close to being a police state?

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Response to liberal_at_heart (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:14 PM

64. Ain't dead, just smells that way.

 

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 09:58 AM

4. Like Scott Walker said, their strategy is to Divide and Conquer.

Now I want MY country back.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:01 AM

6. conservative values

are a source of corruption and despair. Fiscally conservative is just a keyword they use to mean 'screw everyone else but me.' The majority of these people have sociopath tendencies. How can a country flourish with conservative principles? How can a country grow if the rich keep getting richer and we still depend on fossil fouls for energy? These people are plain evil.

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Response to Thenewire (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:03 AM

9. True

and welcome to the board.

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Response to Thenewire (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:28 AM

17. Exactly! Well said! n/t

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Response to Thenewire (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:52 AM

22. Yes, yes, yes....

And welcome to DU!

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Response to Thenewire (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:53 AM

36. ¨These people are plain evil.¨

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:36 AM

18. Nah, we'll win the next one big

And then there will be happy threads at DU

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:39 AM

19. Welcome to Galt's Gulch

Ayn Rand is winning.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:49 AM

20. . . .

 

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:01 AM

26. America has been clinically dead

 

since November 22, 1963. It's been struggling along on life support since then. Had a serious 'event' in 2000 and on November 4, 2014, the 'drs' informed us all that the life support systems WILL BE turned off. Soon.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:25 AM

27. It's sure fighting a lot of wars for a dead thing.

I'm detecting a pulse despite the necrosis, and still have hope.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:25 AM

28. Loathe defeatism

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:28 AM

29. Moving this to General Discussion: Eeyore

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Response to FSogol (Reply #29)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:01 PM

51. DUzy!

 



Or GD: Schleprock.

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Response to FSogol (Reply #29)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:22 AM

72. !!!

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:44 AM

31. Well said

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:44 AM

32. Sad,,,,,,Papa Paul got wish!

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:44 AM

33. Brain Dead. n/t

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Response to kag (Reply #33)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:03 PM

44. You've nailed it. Too many people have stopped thinking for themselves or using their

intellect to analyze what they're told and figure out the agenda of who's giving them information.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:52 AM

35. Great points made, and also food for thought.

The premise of "America" laid out by the founding fathers requires diligence, devotion, hard work and intelligence. They even limited voting to white, male landowners because they thought they would be the only segment of the population that would be intelligent enough to make these honest and yes "compassionate" decisions that would benefit ALL Americans.

Although these men were intelligent, insightful, and of noble intentions, they were NOT Godlike. They did not imagine the time when corporations bought power to supersede this jewel they had struggled to create, fought for, died for and knew it would be man's last, best hope.

They didn't see a time when people would work all day just to come home and watch tv shows about other people's lives as the more ambitious, ruthless, and greedy plotted to steal the hard
earned money they had just worked all day for and brainwash them with fake news.

They assumed that our citizens would always be as noble as they themselves were and rise up to fight for themselves. Not to join in with the power crazed greedy against their own brothers.

RIP USA

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:56 AM

37. See the US Red-Blue MAP with the 'Ring of Fire Midterms' video and article on DU Front Page today

and last night. Note the small SLIVER of BLUE area representation now in the US, vs giant mass of RED. Very disturbing reality especially in a graphic illustration. Several quality articles I read on DU yesterday and the Map did it for me. The disappointment, shock and fallout haven't fully sunk in yet but will.

In Nov. 1980 I was in Wash. DC when Reagan was elected. I couldn't believe this country voted for an old, painted B H.wood actor. B/c I was so young I didn't realize the full meaning of his policies. We lived through the next 12 years of Occupation here by Reagan-Bush- by God that's survival!

I now see the fruition of that eventful turn, despite interim years of effective Democratic action. But we must go on for the sake of the young and future generations somehow. (Now back to bed!).

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:58 AM

38. If the American Dream

(which is really what you're referring to) ever existed it was for a very brief period of time. Maybe a few generations from the end of WWI to the early 80s at most. A time when rich folks paid taxes and the rest of us had some aspirations of class mobility. Once the parties we knocked down in WWII got up and started punching again the elites decided the experiment was over.

My personal feeling is that we need to kill that America once and for all, the capitalism along with it, and build something better.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 12:02 PM

39. Yes it is. I am going to disconnect from the news for awhile. It's too draining and I

cannot watch the bloated gloating faces of those who feel like they "won." My efforts are going to be concentrated on moving out of amerikkka, which is something that I've wanted to do for a long time for a lot of reasons. I know that every place has its issues, but people in other countries seem to vote for their own interests, their elected officials work for the people who put them in office (not the other way around, as it appears to be here), etc. I won't be completely out of the loop, though, because I fully intend to check in on DU to see what is happening.

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Response to locdlib (Reply #39)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:08 PM

45. Good luck with that. If you have another language, it may be easier.

I know someone who successfully moved to France--but he was a teacher here (language)
and speaks both French and German. He lives in Lyon and loves it. He also married
a Frenchman a year ago. It all came about because he went to take classes
in Lyon the summer of 2012.

I also know someone else who went to work for an international company some years ago.
He first lived in Spain, now in Singapore. He's having a fabulous time.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 12:32 PM

42. The Declaration of Independence stated this:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

And then it stated: "That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"

This country was founded on the ideal that people have RIGHTS to LIFE, LIBERTY, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS, and that Government's role was to secure us these rights

SMALL GOVERNMENT MY ASS

Fuck the Republicans who say that we are ENTITLED, that we expect too much from government, our country was founded based on the idea that we have certain rights, including the right to be able to attain a good life, and that government's role should be to help us secure these things.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 12:42 PM

43. And in the meantime Germany provides a free college education, advancements in fast rail

going full speed in Eurasia. GMOs banned pretty much everywhere except here. Green Energy advancements? Get your solar panels made in China (I live in Az and this really pisses me off!). And then there is healthcare.

So while the rest of the developed countries are educating their children, providing them with healthcare and developing new technology - the US is going backwards.

Maybe it's a good time to re-watch this:

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Response to jillan (Reply #43)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 02:13 PM

54. Thank you for posting

....

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 01:38 PM

47. Since Ronald Reagan, at least.

But I'm still here and kicking.



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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 06:20 PM

59. We really need to consider moving

 

If this country is too stupid to understand we are right then we should move to a better country. We should collectively pool our resources so that all of us can move to countries that are more progressive and let the teabaggers make their own beds and lie in them.

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Response to KittyKat13 (Reply #59)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:26 AM

68. I'd go if I could

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 10:16 PM

65. Oh, the drama.

Look, the election results sucked, but overall things are getting better in many areas.

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Response to Warren DeMontague (Reply #65)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:26 AM

74. Operative word = "are." Republicans will seek to make that "were."

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #74)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:31 AM

75. And they'll fail.

The Federal Government was already gridlocked. It sucks to have the GOP control the Senate, but in terms of on-the-ground day to day reality I suspect it won't change a whole hell of a lot.

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Thu Nov 6, 2014, 11:59 PM

67. Arrogant self-absorbed selfish myopic twaddle.

 

And you wonder why the Democrats lost on Tuesday?

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 01:52 AM

69. 2008 Alive! 2010 Dead! 2012.....Alive! DEAD! 2014

 

Guess America is a zombie

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Response to mnhtnbb (Original post)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 02:23 AM

73. Most americans didn't bother to vote

evidently they either think things are fine, or nobody gave them any reason to think their vote mattered. America isn't dead, its just disillusioned. If you could find a way to change that, that would be something.

However well written, bemoaning our fate doesn't seem to get people to the voting booth; perhaps the opposite.

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Response to bhikkhu (Reply #73)


Response to Name removed (Reply #76)

Fri Nov 7, 2014, 03:40 AM

77. Meet "halfway"? Compromise does not mean we give and give and give and you say no and no and noan

and then you complain about us not meeting halfway.

Of course, being the "moderate repub" you say you are, you will probably now complain about being banned, your right to free speech taken away, all the while ignoring those pesky Terms Of Service for this forum you agreed to.

ps. Thanks MIRT, on the job!

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