‘Mythbuster’ Adam Savage’s levelheaded response to #GamerGate: ‘Sh*t’s tough for girls’

[Katashi_itto]

“Shit’s tough for girls,” Savage said. “As a man, I’m watching this whole ‘GamerGate’ thing go down, and I don’t know.”

“I wish I understood it better, because I see it and I have friends that suffer from it. I worked with [Mythbuster co-host] Kari Byron for 11 years, and I’ve watched the evolution of the terrible shit Kari’s had to deal with as a public figure and a woman and a science communicator.”


“The problem I have is that I’m a white dude,” he continued. “And I recognize that my privilege makes it impossible for me to say, ‘There should be more women in science’ without sounding like I’m proclaiming from on high. I take that position seriously. I bring women into the things I’m doing because they absolutely are part and parcel of all of the storytelling and the science and the scientific discovery that we do.”

“And little girls need more role models in critical thinking,” he added. “But I also recognize that that’s not me. I could be a little girl’s role model, but I’m not going to be her ideal role model. She needs a woman to do that. We need to find that balance.”

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/11/mythbuster-adam-savages-levelheaded-response-to-gamergate-shts-tough-for-girls/

[ck4829]

1. I think a lot of it is black-and-white total opposition

Can sum it up as: "OH MY GOD, a woman is talking, she MUST automatically be wrong and stupid!"

Look at women such as Anita Sarkeesian to Sandra Fluke, or more precisely, look at the response to them. You'd think that they personally called these men in front of the entire Internet or in Congress respectively every insult under the sun. It seems like there's a compulsion to take these things as some sort of extremely personal statement.

I originally wanted to say it's opposition for the sake of opposition, but it's not. It has a purpose for them. They see it as they are 'MALE' and so they must also be 'RIGHT', and anyone who else is not is simply not right and they never will be if they say or think something different.

[Katashi_itto]

2. I think its a mix. You have a small but very vocal % of gamer misogynists but you also have

breitbart and other non-gamer anti-fem types that are using the whole thing to further their agenda.

Hell any of the gamer guilds I belong too that sort of behaviour would get them dumped immediately. I think I have seen it personally only twice on online games for years of playing. I am not saying it doesn't exist, just haven't seen much of it.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

14. I would suspect it's more prevalent in certain games or types of games, and less in others.

You don't see a lot of it in Lord of the Rings Online, for instance, which isn't your typical 'first person shooter' 'blow everything up' sort of game that appeals more to testosterone junkies.

[Katashi_itto]

62. Good point, thats exactly the sort of games I play. LOTR, WOW, Eve Online.

My combat "fix" comes from Kendo (Japanese fencing) and women are quite well represented but and in Kendo as with most Martial Arts, courtesy and mutual respect are paramount. Women generally make up about a third (would be nice to have more) of the Dojo. I cant stand sitting in front of a computer for hours on end gaming I get very stiff anymore.

most of the women I know in kendo either started because it was a family tradition (like how I started too, my mother was a Kendoka) or are gamers/ anime fans who really wanted to learn more and got addicted to it.

[AverageJoe90]

105. Makes sense when you think about it.

Unfortunately, all too often, all it takes is a few bad apples to put the entire community at risk of gaining a bad reputation. We've seen that here, too.

[Katashi_itto]

107. Agree!

[Promethean]

3. Don't defend Anita Sarkeesian and never compare her with Sandra Fluke.

Fluke stands for something reasonable and is only objectionable to privileged jerks.

Sarkeesian promotes censorship in video games. Her message is the reason for the rancor sent her way. This is not to say that the nature of said rancor is in any way acceptable. However the only reason she has gotten so much press is because of the extreme reaction to her. If people had just laughed at her and ignored her she would have disappeared and her censorship message with her.

[Scootaloo]

5. No she doesn't

sorry. Maybe go back to the guys that gave you that opinion and ask for a new one.

[mythology]

8. There is NEVER a reason to threaten people with rape and death

It's a damn lie to blame her for the way those knuckledragging buffoons have acted. She didn't make some mal-adjusted piece of garbage threaten to launch an assault at one of her speaking engagements.

The reason she's gotten the rancor is that some people (in this case mostly men) can't handle an opposing point of view.

Fuck blaming her for that.

[Oktober]

83. I don't think anyone denies it...

The point is that they are hardly representative...

[el_bryanto]

10. you and her must have a lot in common then - since you promote censorship in video game journalism

You can whatever you want about games, so long as you don't bring in a feminist perspective? Nice.

For the record I disagree with Ms. Sarkeesian on occasion, but I think she provides a needed and necessary voice in the ongoing discussion of video games.

Bryant

[alarimer]

12. And right on cue, is the bullshit.

Utter nonsense.

[riqster]

13. Shove your MRA talking points up the most uncomfortable orifice you possess.

Blaming her for the violent, misogynistic, illegal attacks made on her is vile. You should be ashamed of your post.

[LawDeeDah]

67. Thank you!

geeeesh!!

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. Criticism is not censorship

You ought to learn some basic definitions before trying to talk in public. In what way has she tried to 'censor' anything?

[jamzrockz]

65. Listen to her democracynow

Interview where she said that her goal is to create a gaming hobby where violence against women would no longer exist. That is not just criticism, if she had her way, games like GTA, Red dead redemption, Batman:Gotam city, Mario, Zelda, Borderlands, Hitman, Earthworm jim, Metal Gear Solid, Farcry .............................Just about every game we have today will be gone and replaced with games like Gone home and Depression quest.

And believe me, I think she really means it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

69. Nothing like that here:

http://www.democracynow.org/2014/10/20/women_are_being_driven_offline_feminist

Is this what concerns you?

ANITA SARKEESIAN: Yeah, so, in terms of the immediacy of the harassment against women in gaming, I think developers and publishers and key figures in the gaming industry need to vocally step up and say, "We do not accept this harassing behavior. We support women," and further outline steps that they’re going to take to try to make the gaming community more inclusive and more diverse, both within their hiring practices and also within the games that they’re making.

Are you saying that being more inclusive would mean that 'just about every game we have today will be gone'? Do you think violence against women is that integral to most games?

[jamzrockz]

94. Ofc not

The more people that get to play video games the better. Talking to guys all day while battlefield gets old pretty fast. But I swear I really thought I heard her say something along that line in that interview. The way I understand Anita and her problems with video games is that she wants game makers to move away from making games in manners that depict violence against women. I have a small problem with that because sometimes, the best way to depict a really bad person is to show said person hurting women and children. It is probably the same reason why war death try to emphasize the death of women and children

The idea of making games more inclusive is just secondary to her problems with video games. It will get more inclusive as more women start playing console and PC games instead of cell phone games. These companies want to make money and will cater to their audience as they diversity. And in fact, you are seeing that change happening right now. We have games like journey, the last of us, ICO, shadow of the colossus, Beyond 2 souls, mirror's edge, gone home etc etc coming out that were made or written by women to appeal to women.

[seaglass]

100. Ridiculous. I have played every Zelda game since the SNES (excluding handhelds) and there is no way

Nintendo is going to stop making Zelda games unless they are no longer profitable. Seriously this is the only game I play and I have bought every Nintendo console only to play Zelda. The Zelda franchise is one of their bestsellers.

That being said, it is true that the "damsel in distress" theme is sexist and there is nothing wrong with acknowledging that and educating people about it. Would not change my enjoyment of the game if Link could be male or female - user's choice. Why not have the option?

[blackspade]

108. And what is wrong with her having that opinion?

That is no reason to threaten rape and death is it?

[Recursion]

21. No she doesn't. That's absurd

She discusses the problematic ways video games portray and engage women

[Iggo]

27. It's her fault that people are sending her rape threats and death threats?

Could you please mansplain that so I understand where you're coming from?

Thanks.

[Gore1FL]

28. I actually read your post and promise not to simply over-react line the many preceeding responses

Anita Sarkeesian deserves criticism and not abuse. I agree.

[Iggo]

30. "Her message is the reason for the rancor sent her way."

I read it, too.

[Gore1FL]

31. If you did you came to the same summary as I. n/t

[Promethean]

33. Then your reading comprehension is lacking.

Read the sentence immediately after the one you are quoting. Think about it really really hard.

Also nice knee jerk by everybody except one person. Everything wrong with blind following is present. Automatic rejection of opposing view. Insults to the messenger. Because apparently it is ok to do character assassination if you don't agree with the person right? Way to act EXACTLY LIKE REPUBLICANS.

[Iggo]

39. Read the sentence I quoted and think about it really really hard.

[kcr]

42. Maybe it's opposite day on DU

Thin skinned typical knee jerk reaction by those who forgot it was opposite day and read that sentence literally.

[Promethean]

44. Since you feel it necessary to quote mine

Instead of taking something fully in context (another favorite past time of right wingers). I'll provide some definitions. Take "reason," in the context it is meant to describe "why" it doesn't have any implications of if something is right, correct, defensible or anything else.

Now take the next sentence in context. In which it is clearly stated: "This is not to say that the nature of said rancor is in any way acceptable." See from my perspective that is clearly stating something is unacceptable. Unacceptable being a rather unambiguous condemnation of something don't you think? I think so.

So I predicted the initial impression and put in a qualifier so I would be fully understood. But oh nooooooooo you couldn't allow that could you? Nope I disagreed with you in a slight way so you had to go full on right wing authoritarian on me.

[cemaphonic]

35. Criticism is not the same thing as censorship

And she's hardly the only one pointing these things out. The industry as a whole seems to be doing some soul searching, and trying to figure out how not to alienate a huge (current and potential) customer base.

[vdogg]

38. wow

You stated a non sexist opinion and immediately people are jumping on your back trying to lump you in with the misogynist idiots. I for one agree with you. Sarkeesian is not the hero people make her out to be. She is a very caustic and opportunistic person that has done more harm than good on this issue. This does not, however, excuse the idiotic trolls that have co-opted the gamergate hash tag and have all together made women's lives a living hell. Hopefully we can weed them out in some way. As a gamer all I want to do is play a good game. My criteria is does it entertain me? Does it relax me? The form of the hero or heroine doesn't matter to me.

[SunSeeker]

63. What part of "she asked for it" is not sexist?

That is what that post (and you) are saying by claiming that just because a woman points out sexism in video games she is promoting "censorship" and is being "caustic," thus causing the rape and death threats she is getting.

[vdogg]

102. Please point out

Where in my post I said any of the things you attributed to me. I'll wait....

[SunSeeker]

110. You said she's "caustic," "opportunistic," & "has done more harm than good on this issue. "

Yeah, you say you don't "excuse" the gamers' response, but you are saying she asked for it, that she caused the response by her "caustic" and "opportunistic" actions. You don't condone misogyny, but women can be so "caustic, " amiright? You don't condone rape, but she did piss the guy off, amiright? "Do not downplay the importance of tone" (your stellar post #76) amiright?

Please give me a link to a post where you have called a man "caustic." I'll wait...

[vdogg]

111. I was referring

To the comment you made about me supporting rape and death threats. And here you are again putting words in my mouth. I very explicitly stated that I do not support either, nor did I say she deserves it. I never said "women can be caustic", I said Anita Sarkeesian can be caustic. Anita Sarkeesian does not represent all women, she represents Anita Sarkeesian. I stand by every statement I have made about Anita Sarkeesian. One thing I cannot figure out is why you continue to deliberately misquote me. It is dishonest, and that's being charitable.

[SunSeeker]

112. I was just quoting you.

I didn't say you said she "deserved" it. Your emphasis on her "tone" and "caustic" words clearly imply she caused it. Words have meaning. Don’t want to sound sexist? Don't say sexist shit.

[jen63]

76. So it's her "tone" that

you object to? Typical and predictable sexist opinion. When a man does it, he's forceful or determined. When a woman does it she's "caustic" and "opportunistic." Nice.

[vdogg]

103. Do not downplay the importance of tone

When trying to convince people of your point of view. Man or woman, tone is everything. In general, when you start out from a position of attack, where you call people names, attack and denigrate their character, and then claim that since they don't agree with you they now have no place at the table, you're generally not going to get a warm response. Is she responsible for death threats against her? Of course not, no one in this entire thread has stated that. I do not hold people responsible for the actions of lunatics. Is she at least partially responsible for the overall tone of the argument, yes, I think she needs to own some of that. When I think of MLK and other civil rights leaders who were eventually able to bring opponents over to their point of view, I remember that they didn't do it through caustic name calling and vitriol. MLK didn't say all white people are this and that, he started with the basic premise that we're all people and worked from there. I would like to see more women in games and gaming and hope Anita is eventually successful. I just think she's going about it the wrong way and has really turned me off with the way she tries to lump me, a gamer, in with some psychotic fool making threats. A bit of nuance would be good.

[CreekDog]

85. Hi vadogg

[Promethean]

88. Thanks.

This has been an interesting experiment. I deliberately shifted my message to be a little bit wrong but to get the general point. I wanted to see the responses. It is terrifying how similar the response has been to when you disagree even a little bit with a right winger.

It is all there: Only paying attention to one sentence and not the entire reply. Assuming things I didn't say. Rejection of potential elaboration (see the "mansplain" post). Character assassination.

It is depressing to see this from people who are supposed to be opposed to the people who do this.

[muriel_volestrangler]

92. You were "a little bit wrong ... to see the responses". That's trolling.

It's depressing to see people trolling, on a thread about a woman who has received many rape and death threats.

Your 'little bit wrong' includes:
"Sarkeesian promotes censorship in video games" - wrong
"Her message is the reason for the rancor sent her way" - wrong
"If people had just laughed at her and ignored her she would have disappeared and her censorship message with her." - she shouldn't 'disappear' - her message is reasonable criticism and points to important improvements that the games culture should make.

Your post was fundamentally wrong. It tries to take the side of the barbarians. I'm glad to see that far more DUers rejected it than thought it was worth posting. We passed your trolling test.

[Promethean]

95. Oh look.

Another person quote mining me. Remember quote mining is something we condemn right wingers and fundies for doing.

Promotes Censorship - only a little bit wrong. I've watched her videos and speeches. While she doesn't outright call for censorship it is easy to come to the conclusion that she would consider it an acceptable outcome to her efforts.

Reason for Rancor - leaving out the next sentence to make it look bad. How about the full quote: "Her message is the reason for the rancor sent her way. This is not to say that the nature of said rancor is in any way acceptable." The first sentence is merely a description of why something is, it has no bearing on if it is acceptable. The second sentence is a clear declaration of something being unacceptable. Tell me, why ignore the second sentence? The only answer I can think of is because you want to be angry at me. You want me to be an "other" that you can attack without twinging your conscience. Why the need to be aggressive and angry? A need to be angry. A need to have an "other" to attack. Being dishonest so you can create that situation. Who does that? I know you want to think you are better than the right wing but if your conduct is the same and the only difference is the idea you support then are you really better?

Laugh at her and let her disappear - the correct response to bad ideas. There are people who express the problems with women in video games far better than Anita Sarkeesian. So much so that she is actually holding the movement back with her bad ideas. The worst part of all this is the only reason her bad ideas are getting so much play is because of the extreme response.

The whole point of my posting here has been to demonstrate the conduct of the feminist movement. It has turned into a hyper aggressive attack machine that goes after everybody who expresses even the slightest disagreement. In the course of that it has taken on some truly bad ideas and is alienating allies. The worst is the contempt held for men in general that try to contribute. Do you really think feminists can change the way men act without involving them? The only way such things will change is to get men involved, make them care and want to learn to do better. Would the attacks on me in this thread actually lead to such a thing? Or do you think it more likely I would just become defensive and reject everything you say?

Anger and aggression solve nothing. They only prolong conflict and reduce the likelihood of a positive outcome.

[muriel_volestrangler]

96. Your follow-up sentence does not correct the first one

The reason for the rancor is not her message. Her message is a perfectly normal one, and one that in other areas of art, entertainment or culture, would be engaged with. People might disagree, but they would do so by talking back to her, or just by ignoring her. This is how other people interact with critics.

The reason for the 'rancor' is that there is a large community of maladjusted individuals who have combined to harass women. The reason is that they have not managed to act like normal adults when in a disagreement. Some must have psychiatric problems; some are just selfish, lazy idiots who cannot, or will not, treat women like equals. Saying that the nature of the attacks are unacceptable does not mean that her message was the reason. You were still wrong. You are still blaming the victim.

You think her ideas are bad. You're wrong. I think "she is actually holding the movement back with her bad ideas" sounds like a desperate flailing response by someone who just doesn't want to have to change anything at all. I've not seen any 'gamergater' say "you should listen to X instead, who has correctly shown the way to remove violence and misogyny from games"; this became the mess that it is when Zoe Quinn was unjustly accused of sleeping with people for good reviews. It has consisted of a series of attacks on women that misogynist gamers hate. Adam Baldwin tried to make it a crusade against liberals. People spit out the phrase 'social justice' as if that's a bad thing. Sarkeesian is one of the women they hated before, so they've now renewed their attacks and threats.

"The whole point of my posting here has been to demonstrate the conduct of the feminist movement." And that is trolling. You post false claims, to see how a group you seem to despise reacts. I don't think of myself as a feminist, just a well-balanced adult. Perhaps that makes me an ally. The thing is, you haven't been 'attacked' in anything like the way women are getting attacked for speaking up. Your crappy post (wrong on purpose, let's remember) has been attacked. I haven't been alienated from feminists; I think many people have been alienated from the misogynist gamers, and that is a real problem for the non-misogynist gamers, because we still have no idea how to tell them apart before the torrent of abuse comes forth from one of the bad ones. I do, however, think that someone concerned about the conduct of the feminist movement to the point of trolling, who blames the victims, and who sees this as 'contempt for men' is on the wrong side of the argument, and really needs to step back, and think about how equality and respect is something that everyone deserves. Let go of the games for a bit, and just think about the people instead.

(And, by the way, "Promotes Censorship - only a little bit wrong. I've watched her videos and speeches. While she doesn't outright call for censorship it is easy to come to the conclusion that she would consider it an acceptable outcome to her efforts." That's you admitting it's wrong. You admit she doesn't call for censorship. "It's easy to come to the conclusion..." - that's your problem with being wrong and lazy, not hers)

"Do you really think feminists can change the way men act without involving them?"

Perhaps you should go back to the OP. That's a man, not a woman.

[nomorenomore08]

97. "I don't think of myself as a feminist, just a well-balanced adult."

[nomorenomore08]

98. You use Sarkeesian to generalize the whole "feminist movement"? Why am I not surprised?

And furthermore, the responses you've gotten here are almost laughably mild compared to the threats and harassment a lot of people (women especially) face online.

Frankly, when it comes to stuff like being threatened with rape and murder, I don't blame people for showing a bit of "rancor."

[LadyHawkAZ]

40. She received a threat recently to shoot not just her, but any random women

who listened to her if she spoke. Unless she has advocated for male gamergaters to be gunned down at random, which I am not aware of, that's a disproportionate amount of rancor to any message she may have put out. It kinda leads a rational person to believe that it's not really about any "message"... wouldn't you agree?

[Maedhros]

47. Sarkesian is not "censoring" video games.

She is simply using her freedom of expression to point out that depictions of women in video games is problematic and to discuss why she finds them so.

Your petulant and inaccurate claims of censorship, and implications that she should be laughed at and ignored, belies your ignorance of what Sarkeesian is doing.

Here, read this:

http://www.newstatesman.com/future-proof/2014/08/tropes-vs-anita-sarkeesian-passing-anti-feminist-nonsense-critique

And, again, what Sarkeesian is doing is standard pop culture criticism, of the kind that films and books have been subjected to for decades - and TvsWVG is pretty good. It’s thorough and accessible, and it’s both a good introduction to the concept of feminist cultural criticism and an example of the increasing respect that games receive as an artform. The world was a very tedious place when all people asked was whether games were art at all; now that we know that they are, in their place come both external critiques (which includes TvsWVG) and intelligent responses from the industry itself (such as Jonathan Blow’s Braid, a platformer which deconstructs the “damsel in distress” trope).

Yet for pointing out obvious, incontrovertible evidence of sexist and misogynist parts of popular games, Sarkeesian gets vitriol. To be clear, this is still going on, two years later, every time a new video is released:

You denigrate Sarkeesian because you play the games she criticizes, and likely enjoy the elements she finds problematic, so you interpret her criticism of the games as criticism of you. So you lash out, rather than engage in some much-needed introspection.

[killbotfactory]

56. Sarkeesian criticises games for lazy storytelling in regards to female characters

That she's gotten so much hate from gamerbro's is mindboggling in this day and age.

Anyone who has a problem with her message made their minds up before they listened to her.

[jamzrockz]

66. This is like criticizing

Last edited Sun Nov 9, 2014, 09:52 PM - Edit history (1)

silent movies for lazy story telling. During the early years of gaming, the data storage of the games left little room for story telling and that is why most games at the time used the well known and easy to understand tropes to get the games set up. Everybody who plays games knows that except for Anita.

[muriel_volestrangler]

70. Can you try to re-express that? It looks like you're saying that there wasn't enough

memory or disk space in "the early years", and that's why modern games contain violence against women. Obviously, that can't be what you mean, because that would be laughably ridiculous, but a phrase like "most games at the time when with the well know tropes to get the games set up" is not even grammatical, let alone logical, so clearly there are some missing, misspelled or misplaced words in your post.

[jamzrockz]

93. I ment to say went and said when* instead

But the gist of it all is that its much harder to tell a good story when you have very little capacity to work with, think communicating via twitter. This is why most of the early generation games used the damsel in distress story line. You watch her video series and games like Zelda, Mario, double dragon are heavily featured in her series.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

74. lol. your post is a joke. nt

[Warpy]

78. Censorship? Not really

She's just telling people of both sexes to look at the tropes in a lot of games, the ridiculous way they draw and use women, and how it might affect women in the real world.

She's asking for some critical thinking, a lost cause among punks in #gamergate, but she's asking a lot of very good questions which punks would know if their minds weren't closed and nailed down.

[Odin2005]

89. What a steaming pantload.

Sarkeesian can be over-the-top at times, but her core argument is completely correct. You guys just feel emasculated because you got pwned by a woman and are lashing out in anger.

[alp227]

113. again, criticism is not censorship.

If video game creators can't handle criticism, they shouldn't make games.

[SharonAnn]

20. As the senior technical person on a project, I tried to explain something to a man in our group

who didn't understand it. He just didn't understand it.

So, his conclusion was that I didn't know what I was talking about. It never occurred to him that I did know what I was talking about and he just didn't understand it. Of course, it's possible that he wasn't really listening because he had such an ingrained belief that women weren't worthy of listening to. Or, perhaps he just wasn't capable of understanding it.

[Gore1FL]

29. I had that happen with my female boss who is quite technical.

Her conclusion was that I didn't know what I was talking about. It never occurred to her that I did know what I was talking about and she just didn't understand it. Of course, it's possible that she wasn't really listening because she had such an ingrained belief that men weren't worthy of listening to. Or, perhaps she just wasn't capable of understanding it.

[noiretextatique]

32. i am accountant, and a male janitor

Asked if I knew how to use the accounting software I told him I was actually an accountant, even though I am female and black. The snarky reply to your post notwithstanding, women and poc always have to deal with sexism and racism.

[Oktober]

82. Hardly...

Such binary thinking is simplistic and the real subtlety is seen on the spectrum where only a small minority are out on the fringe.... but those are the ones who make the news.

[HoosierCowboy]

4. If you are over the age of 14

and taking video games seriously....

IT'S TIME TO GET A LIFE!!!

[el_bryanto]

11. What if you are 42 and your job is making video games?

You should quit and get a real job?

Also how do you feel about kids on your lawn?

Bryant

[7962]

22. Come on, you know thats not what he was referring to!

If its your JOB, good for you, its probably a good one!

[el_bryanto]

25. OK - does he feel the same way about movies? books? Music?

I guess he didn't respond so no way of knowing.

Bryant

[kcr]

16. Should no one over the age of 14 do anything fun?

No games whatsoever?

[Dawgs]

17. OK Hoosier Cowboy!!

Since you live the perfect life, what should people do with their free time?

[RedCappedBandit]

18. It's a part of our culture,

in the same way that books, movies, and other art forms are. Not necessarily childish, nor a waste of time.

[joeglow3]

24. Annnnnd, someone just put their ignorance on display.

[Iggo]

26. Okay, cowboy.

[Xithras]

36. Only 30% of video gamers are under the age of 18.

For most gamers, it's treated like any other hobby. Some take it seriously, and some don't. Just like golf, fishing, stamp collecting, or any of the countless other things that people do to waste their time.

[Skittles]

50. what bugs me

is people who claim they have no time to exercise but can converse in length regarding gaming and TV show

[L0oniX]

73. The majority of gamers are in their 30's.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

84. Did they vote?

[bekkilyn]

75. I'm really curious

Aren't the first three lives enough for you? Have you considered that if you took things just a *little* more seriously, you might make it to the boss level?

[BlueJazz]

6. Adam Savage definitely has his head on straight. He speaks for me absolutely.

Also: I wonder how many great inventions, good social changes, wonderful science advances have been lost due to the suppression of Women's thoughts. I'll bet a LOT.
We ALL suffer for it.

[mindwalker_i]

15. You said it!

Good for Adam. And I completely agree that we're missing out as a society and a world when women (or any other group) is kept from reaching their full potential. The next Einstein is a black woman.

[jen63]

77. Yeah today is the 100th

birthday of Hedy Lamarr. She was a mathematician and the inventor of frequency hopping spread spectrum technology still used in blu tooth and wifi. Though what is she remembered for? Her body and her looks, not her brain. So very sad.

[kcass1954]

104. i heard a piece about that on NPR yesterday.

I had no idea about that. It's such a shame that her intelligence was downplayed.

[jen63]

109. Yep, that was 100 years ago

and still happening today.

[madokie]

7. I knew I liked him for a reason

Not only is he bright but he's a good person too
I enjoy mythbusters show very much and have learned a lot from them over the last decade or so

[chrisa]

9. Boycot Mythbusters!!1!! Derp

Watch that Adam Baldwin is going to take to twitter and demand that MythBusters be boycotted in yet another attempt to get attention / help his dead career.

[LawDeeDah]

23. I liked this guy better than that Walrus guy.

[sakabatou]

86. This guy?

[Darb]

34. Not much into gaming, gamers, or what all, what's the rumpus?

Can someone explain this incident or whatever it is or guide me to an explanation?

[davidn3600]

37. This site gives a run down

This site gives a rundown of the events...
http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2014/10/13/what-is-gamergate-and-how-did-it-blow-up-into-such-a-giant-conspiracy/

[Darb]

41. Thank you

[Darb]

43. Holy shyte!!! I got through about 4 paragraphs

and then got dizzy with acronym overload and leading man/woman v. bit player confusion.

Not my bag man.

Would like to comment, but not informed enough. I will say this, the internets are waaaaay overloaded with anonymous, he-man woman hater punks who need a first-rate ass kicking. They are all over every political site, so I'm sure they are rampant in these circles too. I hate those fucks.

[davidn3600]

45. A less techie version...

http://recode.net/2014/10/09/what-is-gamergate-and-why-is-intel-so-afraid-of-it/

I've heard one person refer to the whole thing as the "Tea Party for nerds." Which is a probably a good explanation. A lot of these guys on 4chan and Reddit and twitter and other social media forums feel as if they just revealed some incredibly massive feminist-media conspiracy to destroy the future of gaming.

It's a very tiny number of radical gamer geeks. Basically it's one of those all-boys clubs that is afraid that letting a girl join will destroy the fabric of the universe.

[daredtowork]

48. Tea Party for Nerds vs. Massive Feminist-Media Conspiracy to Destroy the Future of Gaming

OMG, you made me laugh so hard! NAILED IT! Thank you for bringing that excellent description to my attention! Made my day!

[Darb]

49. Hey, I revisited that article you first posted,

I felt like I really should try harder. I got to tell you, that girl can write (Q is a girl right? Or woman, I should say). She has an all-around, free-flow type (if that is a type) of writing that, after I hammered through the beginning paragraphs that were probably meant for enthusiasts, she grabbed me and did not let go. Great read.

I think that I have the episode pretty much down. Not sure that it deserved as much attention as it seems to have gotten. I did notice mention of the Breitbart types and that really brought it home for me. Breitbart is an oozing sore on humanity whose agenda could not be more transparent, in this segment of society or any other. They want to push the right-wing's perversion of reality in any venue possible in order to piss off the easily pissed off.

Q nailed it.

[Saviolo]

51. A video I linked a while back

A good discussion about GamerGate that lays it all out for someone unfamiliar with the whole thing.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025703449

Of course I got some gamergate blowback on that post, too.

[daredtowork]

46. Nice!

I've said all I've said to say on other threads on this topic.

Just glad once again that Democratic Underground finally grokked that this was a "relevant" matter of misogyny and major cultural import instead of letting the "ambassadors" of this toxic point of view continue to exploit and manipulate the general lack of knowledge.

Still disgusted with the way this was originally handled here, though.

[Saviolo]

52. I was surprised

...to actually have some pushback from #gamergaters when I made a post linking to a great discussion about the whole situation starting from base assumptions. I linked to my OP a couple posts up.

[daredtowork]

53. Yep there are a surprising amount roaming here

Frankly I think rabid Men's Rights Activists and "wings" like the gamergate sort should be considered for the troll watchlist, but I'm not in charge here. Sigh.
(I know it's a slippery slope to "censoring free speech", too. The misunderstood problem is their expertise in "gaming" (i.e. exploiting) systems.)

[Saviolo]

54. If you haven't checked it, yet

...do take a peek at that video I linked. It's a very rational and calm discussion about the root causes and base assumptions behind gamergate. It validates their feelings while pointing out that those feelings are based on false base assumptions manufactured by a privileged group that is afraid "the other side" is going to take their toys away.

[daredtowork]

55. I will - thanks! nt

[daredtowork]

57. This video is awesome!

I'm only a quarter through it, and I'm already mentally listing who to forward this to!

He used the word ludo-narrative!

[Saviolo]

58. Yeah, I love it

And it's totally rational, reasonable, and really examines base assumptions.

Which of course makes GGers heads explode (as you can see in the thread where I posted it).

[daredtowork]

59. I love the "critical tools" approach

I especially like the "culture jamming" concept, which explains how these trolls have infiltrated here to seed their mens rights comments (some with over a thousand posts already which make them look solid "DU&quot , pulling DU heartstrings with concepts like "nerd bullying" and "journalist ethics" and "free speech" (where older DU members are not exactly going to start reading up on "irrelevant" gamer issues) and making their victims seem like the attackers! The general failure to realize what has been going on has really infuriated me.

But now I think there has been enough critical mass of good people bringing the posts and articles to raise awareness (though I wish the mods would allow a community-addressing post title since a lot of people will just ignore the word "gamer&quot . A broader segment of the population - yes, the "non-gamer" ones - do have to have the CRITICAL TOOLS when confronted with these jackasses! They do need to be on the alert when they hear terms like "social justice warrior" or "journalist ethics". They have to understand the astroturfing, the culture jamming, and even how their own base assumptions might be facilitating what is indeed a form of *terrorist activity* that includes *extreme privacy violations* and *rape and death threats*.

Do we Progressive Democrats want to stand for something? Here's a good place to start.

[jen63]

79. Yep! They are so transparent

that even I can see it. I've never played a game in my life and can see their misogyny from a mile away. Coded bullshit!

[Katashi_itto]

90. K&R

[SunSeeker]

64. Ironic how the gamergate MRA assholes are claiming censorship...

Last edited Sun Nov 9, 2014, 05:27 PM - Edit history (1)

...while trying to do exactly that (via rape threats, etc.) to women who have the temerity to point out sexism in video games.

[daredtowork]

71. Not just the rape threats

As the video explains (and I've tried to explain myself here) there's a whole armory of DELIBERATE strategies and tactics that these guys use to oppose and "shut down" the enemy. But how to raise awareness before the general public understands the form of attack that is being mounted?

That's why I'm grateful people are continuing to bring these posts. That video is OUTSTANDING in explaining the underlying problem for people who want to "get under the hood" of it, understand the car they are driving, and understand what's causing all the wrecks on the freeway.

[Initech]

60. Those Gamer Gaters are a small minority of assholes making it difficult for the rest of us.

Fuck them.

[tooeyeten]

61. This is hardly unusual

Some semblance of this behavior occurs in every workplace in America, every single day to the majority of every woman. Since it happens so frequently, women become numb to it and accept and live with it because they need the job to get the money to survive.

A complaint can put their livelihood and future at risk.

[daredtowork]

72. This is a great point, also

If video games are "for children", the acculturation that starts there gets ported into everyday life, and women can't exit for it.

Waitresses experience enormous amounts of sexual harassment simply because it is a "tipped" profession - their survival depends on their "performance" for the people who have the financial power, i.e. men.

[tooeyeten]

80. True

But as far as wait staff hear some of same complaints of men, mistreated but usually in a different way. Ask a bartender, the crap they have to put up with....

[daredtowork]

91. The problem extends to all marginalized communities. nt

[DirkGently]

68. KNR. Fear of loss of cultural

... supremacy is my working theory for psychotic levels of rage / hate / threatened violence on issues like this.

Some people are apparently prone to interpret any move toward parity or equality or inclusion in an area previously dominated by one point of view as an existential threat. They behave as though a threat to exclusive and preferred status is the same as a threat of annihilation.

It's the same kind of thinking that leads Bill O'Reilly to conclude there is a "War on Christmas" when people say "Happy Holidays." His preferred, exclusive cultural mode might no longer be seen as universal and superior, so he is enraged (or knows he can enrage his viewers).

It's transparently cowardly. A different point of view isn't a threat unless you think, somewhere deep inside, that the one you hold dear can't hold its own in public debate. Criticism becomes "censorship" only if you realize that if people even look at something like sexism in video games, they're going to immediately insist on something BETTER.

[tooeyeten]

81. O'Reilly's

Treatment of women though, speaks for itself.

[Odin2005]

87. This Gamer-gate shit pisses me off.

A bunch of grown men screaming about girl cooties in "their" space.

[blackspade]

99. I still don't get this whole gamergate bullshit.

I talked to my son, an avid gamer and he never even heard of it.
What little reading I have done indicates that there are a cadre of juvenile fuckwits out there that can't stand the idea that women have opinions about the more stupid and sleazy aspects of computer games.

Is that an accurate read?

[muriel_volestrangler]

101. That's largely it, though the juvenile fuckwits include Adam Baldwin and breitbart.com

Baldwin actually appears to have originated the #gamergate hashtag on Twitter; and he and the morons at Breitbart want it to be an anti-liberal movement - they seem to think there's political capital in saying boys and men shouldn't listen to women at all, and anyone in favour of equality is a 'social justice warrior', which, to them, is practically a communist.

[AverageJoe90]

106. I always liked Adam Savage. nt