I'm 5 foot eight and weigh 155

[backwoodsbob]

should I be taxed for what I eat and drink?

Should I be taxed extra for drinking sugary drinks even if I am healthy?
Where do we stop the nanny state?

I have put about 300 pounds of venison in my freezer....how much should I be taxed?

Where does it end?

Should I be taxed for every carb I eat?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Why do you ask?

[MH1]

68. Heh, no response. Kind of like me asking why should I pay school taxes?

I have no kids in school.

I have no kids.

Why the hell should I pay school taxes?

* psst, this is sarcasm, in cases it isn't abundantly obvious.

[MH1]

69. Liquor taxes, that's another one that bugs me.

I drink occasionally and am not remotely alcoholic. (so I claim, anyway)

Alcohol is not harmful to me, it is a feature not a bug.

Why should it be taxed?

And this whole drug decriminalization thing, they say they want to legalize it and TAX it so the taxes can be used to help people with addiction issues. But I have no addiction issues. (ok, caffeine and chocolate, but no one is offering to help me with those!) Why should I support this tax?

* psst sarcasm again.

Me ... me ... me .... me ........

[bravenak]

2. I know what you mean.

I don't believe in adding extra taxes to food to curb behaviors I don't like. It ends up hurting the poor.

[Warpy]

30. It does. Lacking orange juice for breakfast

they feed the kids orange flavored stuff that has some vitamin C in it if they're lucky. Orange juice and oranges are out of reach. The kids eat sugary cereal with fake fruit because they can't afford the blueberries (or eggs) for blueberry pancakes or hot oatmeal with fruit.

I see the choices people with EBT cards have to make and it's heartbreaking. Yes, the kids are drinking too much soda, but they can't afford fruit juices and some kids can't drink milk. Water gets boring and the kids rebel.

I say that if they want to tax one thing, they need to subsidize a replacement. When fruit juices are subsidized and are cheaper than highly taxed soda, people will give the kids fruit juice and be glad to do it.

[KMOD]

31. + 1,000,000

It's so disappointing that healthy foods are too expensive for the people who need it the most.

[arthritisR_US]

90. Why not tax the crap foods and use those monies to subsidize healthy foods? nt

[KMOD]

93. I'm all for subsidizing healthy food,

but It can be addressed through the Farm Bill. But like with everything, it's complicated.

Here's an interesting read on it, if you're interested.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/food/farm-bill-why-dont-taxpayers-subsidize-the-foods-that-are-better-for-us/2014/02/14/d7642a3c-9434-11e3-84e1-27626c5ef5fb_story.html

[arthritisR_US]

95. Thanks! nt

[Drahthaardogs]

32. Boxed cereal is way more expensive than eggs and oatmeal.

Come on now.

[KMOD]

44. Fruit is very expensive though

Part of it may be convenience, yes, it's easier to pour a bowl of cereal than to make a decent breakfast.

But the overall point is, it's expensive to eat healthy. Fruit, fish, proteins with the exception of beans are expensive.

[MillennialDem]

59. A pound and a half of chicken breast is like $8-$9.

[Warpy]

61. Which is why poor folks buy thighs

It's a lot of meat for a hell of a lot less money.

[MillennialDem]

62. I'm not disagreeing with that - just saying the protein ration of a young adult who works out is

$240 a month.

Plus a few plant foods and snacks and it's ridiculous.

[meaculpa2011]

74. I buy chicken breasts when they're $1.99.

Brine them and grill them with a sprinkle of cayenne. When the kids want a snack or a sandwich or a salad there's always grilled chicken in the refrigerator. Thighs are often $.99 a pound. Main ingredient for Chicken and Forty Cloves. Just like grandma used to make.

The "healthy food is too expensive" meme is bogus.

When you remove the junk from your shopping cart you'll be amazed at how much is left for fruits, vegetables, fresh fish and lean meats.

BTW: The cost per calorie metric is also bogus.

Oh yeah... Straight orange juice is way too sweet for me. Quarter of a glass of juice then fill to the top with water. It goes a long way.

[MillennialDem]

75. I've never seen fresh skinless chicken breast for less than $5 a pound here.

[meaculpa2011]

76. I just bought a 4-pound package at...

Stop 'n Shop in NYC for $1.99 per pound. Literally, ten minutes ago.

There's also a butcher shop nearby that sells for that price every day.

I thought that NYC had the highest prices. Where are you?

[MillennialDem]

85. Rural WI.

[meaculpa2011]

100. Wow! There are tradeoffs, I suppose.

We have supermarkets every few blocks so I can shop around for groceries.

Of course, rent for a tiny one bedroom apartment starts at $2,000 per month.

The cost of high ticket items here (housing, taxes, insurance...) are astronomical.

It's a real struggle for most young people. We're well established, but just our housing expenses amount to nearly $3,000 per month. And we don't even have a mortgage. A young family in their first home would then have to add $2,000-$3,000 more in mortgage expense.

We're contemplating a move because we can cut our fixed expenses by more than half. Being a city dweller for 60+ years I'm not sure I can even think about rural life.

[MillennialDem]

103. I hear you - I almost fell over when I went to NYC for the cost of one night in a hotel room. PLUS

as you said "the rent is too damn high". My mortgage AND property taxes for a home with 1300 square feet (plus 1300 square feet in the basement AND 1300 square feet in the attic) is $1200/month.

But going anywhere is inconvenient and as you've seen the cost of healthy food is astronomical. The only thing I wouldn't like about city life (besides the costs) would be the lack of open space for winding up a sports car.

[meaculpa2011]

107. I'm very content riding my bike...

at the speed limit.

We have a very long stretch of oceanfront here that's a real pleasure to ride. I can make a forty mile circuit completely surrounded by water. If I want long winding "country" roads I have to travel far north or farther west.

Life is about compromise.

P.S. I also love riding in the city, but I've been sideswiped and rear-ended more than once. Lost my 1984 Honda in Sandy and I've been preoccupied with house repairs. I'll start shopping for a new bike in a few months.

[FrodosPet]

108. Wow!

I was floored when I saw boneless breast was $3.50 a pound in Michigan. Are you in Alaska or Hawaii or NYC? How bad are frozen vegetables? Bird's Eye here are about $1.50 to $1.66 a pound (3 bags for $5.00 on my latest trip to the store)

[MillennialDem]

84. Don't like it *shrug*

[woodsprite]

102. Same for ground beef. n/t

[MillennialDem]

104. Yep, at least the 95% lean stuff. So my two main sources of protein cost out the ass. ;)

[woodsprite]

109. I told my family that the next time they eat any steak, it'll be in a restaurant.

I certainly can't cook it like a chef can, and the darned price was $22 for two small, not so great looking strip steaks at the store last night. We need at least 3 to feed 4 of us (so 2 packs). My just turned 14yo son is starting on another growth spurt, which I certainly don't mind, but I'm having to fill out meals with things we don't usually have for dinner. I've added one or two of the following at dinner: biscuits, muffins, potatoes, dumplings, pasta, yogurt or cottage cheese.

Thankfully, my daughter and I have been switching to a low carb plan, so we've been experimenting with other proteins. That first trip to the grocery to stock up though was crazy (like over $250) and it was mainly fresh produce, meat, cheeses, and beans -- some things I did splurge on like a mid-value olive oil and balsamic vinegar. This week was much better since I just had to restock what we used up AND we ran into a sale for chicken at the Acme -- buy one, get one free for boneless chicken. I refused to spend $15.00 on a package of ground meat to make chili, so this week I'm making white bean chicken chili!

[Warpy]

60. Not the stuff that comes in plastic bags

that the kids will actually eat.

I know a lot of poorer moms who buy the stuff in the bags and put it into a brand name box they've used for years. The kids don't start to get wise until they're in fourth grade or so.

[Drahthaardogs]

64. I have two teenage boys who play sports

I buy the malto mix cereal all the time. It is fairly unhealthy but they like it and their caloric needs are high.I am a bodybuilder. I buy tons of oatmeal and egs for me. There is nothing cheaper than instant oats. A dozen eggs is a dollar.

[MH1]

67. One thing is cheaper than instant oats. Non-instant oats, especially if bought in bulk.

I buy organic thick-rolled oats - which taste so much better than instant - and they are cheaper than anything you'll buy in a box. Add a few raisins, also bulk purchased, and you bump up the price per serving, but not by much.

But,

a) poorer folks may not have access to such a great store that provides bulk foods like oatmeal and raisins. (But they can probably buy a canister of non-instant oats. Non instant oats adds 1 - 4 minutes to the cooking time, depending on whether you like having to clean the microwave afterward.)
b) if all the kids will eat is the flavored instant crap, I agree that is probably cheaper healthier than most other boxed cereals.

[meaculpa2011]

79. I cannot eat instant oats or non-instant oats (the five minute kind).

I like steel cut Irish oatmeal, but it's very expensive so I buy it in bulk when it's $2.39 for an 18 ounce package.

It cooks for 30 minutes but it's a thousand times better tasting than the Quaker stuff.

[KMOD]

98. I don't cook my oats

I make it after dinner, mixing equal parts of oats and milk (you can use whatever liquid you prefer), sprinkle in some fruit and walnuts and put in the refrigerator.

In the morning I take it out of the refrigerator and eat it. Easy and delish. And if you still prefer it warm, you can always microwave it for a few seconds or heat it up in a sauce pan.

[jen63]

65. I did this with skim milk

and my kid didn't know the difference until I told him. He was amazed, lol!

[Warpy]

86. When I was doing the nutrition thing

I used to tell people with bunches of kids who all drank milk to keep the jugs, make up a gallon of powdered skim milk for every gallon they bought and mix them half and half.

Their kids never caught on.

It's always seemed weird that powdered milk was cheaper than whole milk but i guess the processing was cheaper than fast shipping, constant refrigeration, and spoilage.

[jen63]

87. The tricks we learn to use

on kids!

[Warpy]

89. I never had kids, I was just cheap

and people told me I pinched pennies so hard they could hear Lincoln groan.

I'm great at being poor. Now that I'm middle class, I have no clue what I'm doing half the time.

But yeah, I was always full of hints for parents who were struggling.

[jen63]

91. Oh me too Warpy.

I didn't think I wanted any, but I got a surprise while on the pill. Love him dearly, but he's the only one! I hear you about Lincoln groaning also!. I'm poor and a lot of the time it was just me and my boy. It's a struggle. He will have a better life than I did thank gawd.

[meaculpa2011]

78. My father did that in the 1950s.

We were wise to it, but ate it anyway. He worked in sweat shop and we ran out of money by the middle of every week.

Macaroni and peas every Thursday night.

[winstars]

99. We had macaroni and peas on Monday nights and peas and macaroni on Thursday nights!!! Really...

[bravenak]

35. +1

[formernaderite]

77. bottled fruit juice has no nutritional value

its sugar... thirsty? drink water. sugary cereal... actually cereal in general is pretty expensive. Making food from scratch is still the cheapest way to go. Eggs are not expensive compared to cereal, neither is oatmeal. I realize people have forgotten how to cook real food, but it's not more expensive to buy actual food as opposed to ready made. I do realize that for some poor people, there is little access to good food, because of where they live.

[nomorenomore08]

45. That's why I don't believe in regressive taxes, period. Even for cigarettes. n/t

[bravenak]

47. Me neither. It's stupid.

[MrMickeysMom]

3. Here's some sage advice...

[juxtaposed]

4. sounds a lot like right wing radio

[AnalystInParadise]

6. So the merits

of forcing people to pay extra tax for what they eat are liberal how, exactly?

[lancer78]

10. Not liberalism

It is nanny-stateism, pure and simple.

[AnalystInParadise]

16. Agreed

I just wanted to see if the other poster would defend the indefensible.

[NRaleighLiberal]

5. .

Why do you ask?

[lunasun]

7. 1791 tax on alcohol and tobacco . Were not concerned when it didn't concern you?

[scarystuffyo]

15. .

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me


Martin Niemöller

[juxtaposed]

19. what the hell does martin niemoller have to do with the op?

[Electric Monk]

22. Translation: Gun lovers in America are just like the Jews were in Germany

Very much a right wing meme.

Here's an example of another variation on it:



http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017218293

[arthritisR_US]

92. Godwin strikes again ;) nt

[Starry Messenger]

36. Soda drinkers are facing genocide, apparently.

[juxtaposed]

40. no shit,, first coke? I was not a coke drinker--- then Pepsi still not a fan. all were gone and

they came for moxie and I was moxie & no one was left

[Orsino]

88. Well, goddamn. This could be the issue that unites us all.

In the face of a Republican takeover of Congress, there is nothing more critical than the possibility of minor regressive taxation on food and beverages.

[LittleBlue]

8. The nanny state soda tax is regressive

The rich won't care about it because the amount they'd pay is irrelevant. The poor will feel it, though.

It doesn't even make logical sense, there are plenty of ways to get overweight besides sugar. Fats and grain probably contribute more to obesity than sugar. Cholesterol comes from animal products, not soda.

I don't consider this progressive at all. It's illogical, tax-regressive nanny state nonsense.

[Kalidurga]

9. Food taxes should be abolished along with all the other regressive taxes

[SomethingFishy]

13. I agree... taxing necessities is bullshit.

[ZombieHorde]

51. I completely agree.

No food tax. Maybe a service tax in a restaurant, but don't tax food.

And pizza should be single payer. Just kidding. Or am I? Hmmmm.....

[Kalidurga]

52. I have to agree on the pizza

I like pineapple on mine.

[ZombieHorde]

56. Me too!

Pineapple is a very controversial topping.

[Kalidurga]

57. probably one of the reasons I like it.

[postulater]

11. Venison has no carbs. You should be paid for eating it.

300#? How many years have you been collecting it?

[NYC_SKP]

23. Civility, please! Who ARE these people who archive links to try to intimidate other members?

It just seems creepy, to me.

Like this: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018436593#post19

[Electric Monk]

24. Speaking of creepy, another gun lover standing up for gun lovers, "because gunz".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1262&pid=421

[scarystuffyo]

12. I'm against all sin tax

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

17. I would like to see the term "nanny state" disappear -

at least from DU. It's a classic RW propaganda term. While it's fair to debate how and when personal behavior should be regulated, let's discuss it in terms of reasonable regulation. The term "nanny state," however, is mostly a conservative/libertarian sneering jab at all regulation aimed at arguably unsafe personal behavior. Some people call requiring the use of seat belts in cars or the wearing of motorcycle helmets or the taxation of cigarettes and alcohol "nanny-stateism." Debate the reasonableness of these regulations all you want but please, let's dump the "nanny state" crap.

[juxtaposed]

21. "nanny state" to me in this thread is a Freudian Slip, I hear it all the time on r/w radio

anyone ever says nanny state to me in a conversation 9 times out of ten I know what side of the fence they're on

[Strelnikov_]

34. Yep n/t

[raccoon]

106. I strongly second that emotion. nt

[JaneyVee]

18. You already are taxed for what you eat and drink.

Do you not pay taxes on these items?

[madville]

33. I don't pay taxes on food at the grocery store

Here in Florida most "unprepared" food and drink is tax free.

Now if I go to the grocery store deli and buy an 8 piece fried chicken, a sub sandwich and an iced sweet tea it's all taxed.

If I buy a raw chicken, bread, sandwich meat, mayonnaise, mustard, a tomato, cheese, tea bags and some sugar it's all tax free.

Sales tax is only applied to "prepared" foods here.

[handmade34]

20. I agree 110%

with taxing the hell out of soft drinks...

[Major Nikon]

26. The exact same argument can be made for all simple carbohydrates

You can buy a 2 liter bottle of soda for 88 cents. Even doubling the price won't discourage all that many and will simply unfairly punish those with lower incomes. Virtually all taxes and fines should be based on income.

[yeoman6987]

48. I heard that healthy people die everyday.

I know I was shocked too.

[whistler162]

72. Next you will tell us Euell Gibbons

and Jack La Lane are dead!

[AndyTiedye]

54. OP Is Not even Overweight, Let Alone Obese. Neither Am I

Most of this relates to obesity. Some of us drink quite a bit of soda and still manage to avoid obesity, mostly by being physically active.

The sugar doesn't turn into fat if you're using the energy it is giving you.

Not all soda contains phosphoric acid. Not all soda contains high-fructose corn syrup.


Though it seems that whoever made up the graphic above wants us all to give up caffeine too. Notgonnahappen.

[ileus]

70. Scary Soda.....

From that chart if we could just ban soft drinks we could solve all of health cares boogieman.

[NYC_SKP]

25. Recommended. They use taxes to force us to use help them profit.

They won't let us collect our own rain water in some places, or freely generate solar power.

Why don't they tax luxury boats and cars and homes, instead?

[Mz Pip]

80. Luxury boats, cars and houses are taxed.

Every year I have to pay property taxes on my house, license fees on my car and small boat.

As far as surgery drinks go, on the rare occasions I drink the stuff, the extra pennies wont make that much difference.

I can only hope the city of Berkeley will use the money generated from the tax to do some needed repairs on the roads or add it to education.

[librechik]

27. Exactly how much are you being taxed for your body weight?

Or is it one of those pesky things where childless couples complain about being taxed to pay for schools and hospitals and such? Are you being taxed for every carb you eat and where is that happening???

[PasadenaTrudy]

97. Most of us

prefer the term "childfree" to "childless." Childless sounds like we are lacking something

[Nevernose]

28. I enjoy a beer and a smoke occasionally.

I pay taxes on them, ostensibly to discourage me because of the cost to the public good that cigarettes and alcohol cause.

Soda -- and the obesity epidemic -- are also threats to the public health, and the government is discouraging them in the best, most realistic way they know how. At the very least we can hope the soda tax money raised in Berkley will go to public health in Berkley.

And you DID pay a tax on that venison: your hunting license.

(Personally, I'd tax gasoline far more, encouraging people to walk more, and spending the money raised on public transportation)

[FourScore]

29. Hey Bubba! What are you doin' on this side of the internets? n/t

[SMC22307]

37. Is the tax *that* much of a hardship on you?

If it is, maybe you should lay off of unhealthy sodas/sugary drinks and stick to water.

Good God, what a thing to get worked up about. And it sounds so Yukon Barbie-ish.

[Starry Messenger]

38. There's plenty of other reasons Berkeley and you would not get along.

You just stay where you are, we'll all be happier. We don't like dog shooters out here either.

[NYC_SKP]

39. Berkeley is a fucking mess. I've lived there.

They do a few things really well and a lot of things very poorly.

I wouldn't live there again. I'd take parts of Oakland near Berkeley, but never Berkeley proper.

It's insane.

[Starry Messenger]

41. That's nice.

[yeoman6987]

49. Berkeley worried about soda but has tons of

Population that can't afford housing. What priorities do they follow? Stunning.

[Starry Messenger]

63. Don't move here. Problem solved.

SF has worse housing probs, and voted down an anti eviction measure and a soda tax. I don't like that result, but I don't live in either city.

[KittyWampus]

42. The "nanny state" is a far-right meme. Why are you using it? And problems with obesity

can only be addressed if society as a whole makes an effort.

It isn't just an individual and their "will power".

[tularetom]

43. you might want to reconsider your use of the term "nanny state"

Its a right wing buzzword if nobody ever told you.

And wtf does venison have to do with a tax on sugary drinks.

And sure you might be healthy now but why should I have to pay to treat your diabetes in ten years,

Sorry but I have no problem with this.

[LeftyMom]

46. You're right. California is terrible. Never come here.

We'll manage without you somehow.

[flvegan]

53. LOL!

*don't say anything about the OP executing the family dog and bragging on DU about it*

You're horrible.

[LeftyMom]

55. Well that's not as upsetting as a sixteen cent tax on a can of Coke.

Jesus, you have fucked up priorities.

[KMOD]

50. I understand their reasoning, but dissaprove of their actions

My husband is 6'2" - 160lbs, and to my dismay lives on sugar.

He fills his coffee cup 1/4 full of sugar, before he adds his coffee. He then drinks soda, all day. And at night, drinks his very sugary cherry Kool-Aid.

I've tried to persuade him to cut back on sugar. He does what he wants, anyway.

Here's the thing. He's upper 50s and very healthy.

I'd rather leave the soda problem to doctors, instead of politicians. If it's causing a health issue, I think people will be more inclined to listen to their doctors rather their politicians. And if it's not causing a health problem yet? I'm pretty sure my husband will listen to his doctor before he listens to me. Have doctors advise people about their sugar habits if there is a concern.

Oh well, at least I have him eating more vegetables and healthy proteins. He didn't like it at first, but he adapted.

[Live and Learn]

94. +1 nt

[WhiteAndNerdy]

58. It's kind of funny --

-- how many people are more concerned with your use of the term "nanny state" than with the substance of your post.

"Nanny state" is not a RW meme. It's a term commonly used by people who actually believe in individual liberty to describe government overstepping its bounds. Another term for it is "paternalism." Either way, the point is that adult citizens are not children who need government to stand in loco parentis and manage every choice we make. I object to ALL "sin taxes." It's not the government's job to try to dissuade me from buying legal products at my own discretion. If something isn't dangerous enough to ban altogether, it's no one's business if I want to consume it.

Written while guzzling soda & chain smoking,
W&N

[alp227]

96. Sin taxes are NOT the same as banning products altogether.

Banning the purchase of products? THAT's paternalism.

[betsuni]

66. Notes From Underground:

"I am a sick man ... I am a spiteful man. I am a most unpleasant man. I think my liver is diseased. Then again, I don't know a thing about my illness, I'm not even sure what hurts. I'm not being treated and never have been, though I respect both medicine and doctors. Besides, I'm extremely superstitious -- well at least enough to respect medicine. (I'm sufficiently educated not to be superstitious, but I am, anyway.) No, gentlemen, it's out of spite that I don't wish to be treated. ... Of course, I won't really be able to explain to you precisely who will be hurt by my spite in this case; I know perfectly well that I can't possibly 'get even' with doctors by refusing their treatment, I know better than anyone that all this is going to hurt me alone, and no one else. Even so, if I refuse to be treated, it's out of spite. My liver hurts? Good, let it hurt even more!"

[ileus]

71. You should be taxed just because you hunt and may own firearms.

Of course you could use archery equipment to harvest deer, but you probably still use pure evil broadheads.

[HereSince1628]

73. Basic to this issue is "the policy is not about your behavior"

Yes, regulations, ordinances, and laws are meant to impact everyone. And overall, that's as it should be, because we really are supposed to all be in that part of society together.

Policies are aimed at the population. Laws typically are erected by majorities to benefit most of society.

No doubt about it, populations decomposes into individual units. Laws impact individuals as those impacts sum to society wide effects.

But, in the tradition of English and US law, a law intended to target one individual is immoral and unlawful.

[HockeyMom]

81. They cannot monitor you HOME cooking

Chicken is not taxed. Potatoes are not taxed. Neither is cooking oil. They are considered food items. However, what is to prevent someone from deep frying that chicken and potatoes? Will the health police ever know what you are cooking at home? Nope, they can only target unhealthy food sold in restaurants and fast food places.

I only eat at fast food places maybe one or twice a YEAR, mostly when travelling. Don't tell mr that a couple of times a year is unhealthly or that I am going to get fat eating these things very rarely. Same with soda. I will PAY the Nanny State's "health" tax. I am 66 years old. The only time I have weighed more than 100 lbs was 30 years ago when I was pregnant. Nobody has ever said to me "don't eat or drink that or you will get FAT". Actually, I have had people say to me "have an extra Big Mac Supersize Meal for me".

Sorry, one size does not fit all.

[oberliner]

82. Should you be taxed extra for smoking cigarettes?

Or do you oppose high taxes on those as well?

[B Calm]

101. You must be skin and bones.

But, then maybe I'm just being jealous.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

105. No. The MANUFACTURERS should be taxed for making those products.

But of course we can't get coordinated action at a federal level, so instead we have to leave it to municipalities to set taxes at the point of sale.