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Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:15 AM

BREAKING: The US and China Just Announced a Huge Deal on Climate—and it's a Gamechanger

Last edited Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:26 AM - Edit history (1)


President Obama and Chinese President Xi Jinping met today in Beijing. Ju Peng/Xinhua/ZUMA

The surprise agreement aims to double the pace of carbon pollution reduction in the United States.

—By Tim McDonnell and James West

In a surprise announcement Tuesday night, the world's two biggest economies and greenhouse gas emitters, United States and China, said they will partner closely on a broad-ranging package of plans to fight climate change, including new targets to reduce carbon pollution, according to a statement from the White House.

The announcement comes after President Obama met in Beijing with Chinese President Xi Jinping, and includes headline-grabbing undertakings from both countries which are sure to breathe new life into negotiations to reach a new climate treaty in Paris next year.

According to the plan, the United States will reduce carbon emissions 26-28 percent below 2005 levels by 2025, nearly twice the existing target—without imposing new restrictions on power plants or vehicles

Tuesday's announcement is equally remarkable for China's commitment. For the first time, China has set a date at which it expects its emissions will "peak," or finally begin to taper downwards: around 2030. China is currently the world's biggest emitter of carbon pollution, largely because of its coal-dependent economy, and reining in emissions while continuing to grow has been the paramount challenge for China's leaders.

MOre..
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/11/obama-just-announced-historic-climate-deal-china

China, America and Our Warming Planet

John Kerry: Our Historic Agreement With China on Climate Change

snip//

BEIJING — The United States and China are the world’s two largest economies, two largest consumers of energy, and two largest emitters of greenhouse gases: Together we account for about 40 percent of the world’s emissions.

We need to solve this problem together because neither one of us can solve it alone. Even if the United States somehow eliminated all of our domestic greenhouse gas emissions, it still wouldn’t be enough to counteract the carbon pollution coming from China and the rest of the world. Likewise, even if China went down to zero emissions, it wouldn’t make enough of a difference if the United States and the rest of the world didn’t change direction.

MOre..
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/opinion/john-kerry-our-historic-agreement-with-china-on-climate-change.html?smid=tw-share&_r=0



Suck on that, Kocksters.

And, I'll leave on this note.. from SOS John Kerry's OP in the NYT~from the link..

"There is no question that all of us will need to do more to push toward the de-carbonization of the global economy. But in climate diplomacy, as in life, you have to start at the beginning, and this breakthrough marks a fresh beginning: Two countries regarded for 20 years as the leaders of opposing camps in climate negotiations – have come together to find common ground, determined to make lasting progress on an unprecedented global challenge. Let’s ensure that this is the first step towards a world that is more prosperous and more secure."

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Reply BREAKING: The US and China Just Announced a Huge Deal on Climate—and it's a Gamechanger (Original post)
Cha Nov 2014 OP
Cha Nov 2014 #1
ChisolmTrailDem Nov 2014 #7
Cha Nov 2014 #11
William769 Nov 2014 #2
Cha Nov 2014 #5
Segami Nov 2014 #3
Cha Nov 2014 #9
FreakinDJ Nov 2014 #77
GummyBearz Nov 2014 #104
1StrongBlackMan Nov 2014 #132
Hestia Nov 2014 #166
woolldog Nov 2014 #4
BP2 Nov 2014 #6
Cha Nov 2014 #17
Yupster Nov 2014 #109
earthside Nov 2014 #13
SunSeeker Nov 2014 #156
Hestia Nov 2014 #170
Cha Nov 2014 #14
TheKentuckian Nov 2014 #87
Independent_Liberal Nov 2014 #8
Cha Nov 2014 #21
mythology Nov 2014 #10
lpbk2713 Nov 2014 #15
Cha Nov 2014 #24
Go Vols Nov 2014 #12
Cha Nov 2014 #26
Ex Lurker Nov 2014 #16
Cha Nov 2014 #27
former9thward Nov 2014 #34
treestar Nov 2014 #116
sheshe2 Nov 2014 #18
Cha Nov 2014 #30
cilla4progress Nov 2014 #62
Cha Nov 2014 #65
Ykcutnek Nov 2014 #19
Cha Nov 2014 #28
freshwest Nov 2014 #29
flamingdem Nov 2014 #20
Cha Nov 2014 #33
flamingdem Nov 2014 #22
Cha Nov 2014 #35
KMOD Nov 2014 #23
Cha Nov 2014 #37
Cha Nov 2014 #76
rufus dog Nov 2014 #25
freshwest Nov 2014 #31
Cha Nov 2014 #39
zappaman Nov 2014 #32
Cha Nov 2014 #40
zappaman Nov 2014 #41
Cha Nov 2014 #44
drm604 Nov 2014 #36
jwirr Nov 2014 #43
karynnj Nov 2014 #45
Cha Nov 2014 #49
Cha Nov 2014 #47
Ykcutnek Nov 2014 #48
Liberal Lolita Nov 2014 #38
Cha Nov 2014 #54
jwirr Nov 2014 #42
Cha Nov 2014 #56
jwirr Nov 2014 #106
LittleBlue Nov 2014 #46
Old Nick Nov 2014 #50
Amonester Nov 2014 #53
KMOD Nov 2014 #51
Cha Nov 2014 #58
alcibiades_mystery Nov 2014 #99
Hoyt Nov 2014 #52
Cha Nov 2014 #60
Hoyt Nov 2014 #67
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #55
Cha Nov 2014 #63
BlancheSplanchnik Nov 2014 #113
Iliyah Nov 2014 #57
Cha Nov 2014 #66
JDPriestly Nov 2014 #59
Cha Nov 2014 #68
Hekate Nov 2014 #61
Cha Nov 2014 #70
cilla4progress Nov 2014 #64
Cha Nov 2014 #71
davidpdx Nov 2014 #69
Cha Nov 2014 #72
world wide wally Nov 2014 #73
Cha Nov 2014 #74
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #186
Cha Nov 2014 #75
Cha Nov 2014 #78
LineLineReply ~
sheshe2 Nov 2014 #107
Cha Nov 2014 #146
sheshe2 Nov 2014 #150
malaise Nov 2014 #79
Cha Nov 2014 #80
RiverLover Nov 2014 #81
Cha Nov 2014 #82
Cha Nov 2014 #83
The2ndWheel Nov 2014 #84
Cha Nov 2014 #85
The2ndWheel Nov 2014 #88
Cha Nov 2014 #90
The2ndWheel Nov 2014 #96
Cha Nov 2014 #144
Cha Nov 2014 #86
bemildred Nov 2014 #89
Cha Nov 2014 #91
bemildred Nov 2014 #92
Cha Nov 2014 #93
TBF Nov 2014 #94
Cha Nov 2014 #95
TBF Nov 2014 #97
Takket Nov 2014 #98
lonestarnot Nov 2014 #100
pediatricmedic Nov 2014 #108
JoePhilly Nov 2014 #101
Javaman Nov 2014 #102
Orsino Nov 2014 #103
Cha Nov 2014 #152
raouldukelives Nov 2014 #105
grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #110
lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #112
lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #111
mahina Nov 2014 #114
Cha Nov 2014 #153
treestar Nov 2014 #115
mcar Nov 2014 #117
Android3.14 Nov 2014 #118
Javaman Nov 2014 #119
Cha Nov 2014 #161
Android3.14 Nov 2014 #163
Cha Nov 2014 #164
hughee99 Nov 2014 #120
Crabby Appleton Nov 2014 #128
lumberjack_jeff Nov 2014 #137
KingCharlemagne Nov 2014 #121
rhett o rick Nov 2014 #122
True Blue Door Nov 2014 #124
rhett o rick Nov 2014 #138
True Blue Door Nov 2014 #139
rhett o rick Nov 2014 #141
True Blue Door Nov 2014 #143
Cha Nov 2014 #148
rhett o rick Nov 2014 #167
True Blue Door Nov 2014 #168
rhett o rick Nov 2014 #172
True Blue Door Nov 2014 #175
Cha Nov 2014 #199
Number23 Nov 2014 #179
Deny and Shred Nov 2014 #131
rhett o rick Nov 2014 #140
Deny and Shred Nov 2014 #193
rhett o rick Nov 2014 #194
Deny and Shred Nov 2014 #196
Cha Nov 2014 #147
Number23 Nov 2014 #176
Cha Nov 2014 #178
Number23 Nov 2014 #191
Cha Nov 2014 #192
Dopers_Greed Nov 2014 #123
Cha Nov 2014 #162
americannightmare Nov 2014 #125
Travis_0004 Nov 2014 #201
Cha Nov 2014 #202
JRLeft Nov 2014 #126
Recursion Nov 2014 #177
lovemydog Nov 2014 #127
kentuck Nov 2014 #129
One_Life_To_Give Nov 2014 #130
Cha Nov 2014 #173
mylye2222 Nov 2014 #133
Blue_In_AK Nov 2014 #134
lovemydog Nov 2014 #135
Cha Nov 2014 #155
lovemydog Nov 2014 #136
lovemydog Nov 2014 #142
Cha Nov 2014 #160
hifiguy Nov 2014 #145
Cha Nov 2014 #165
arely staircase Nov 2014 #149
upaloopa Nov 2014 #151
drynberg Nov 2014 #154
SunSeeker Nov 2014 #157
Cha Nov 2014 #169
Cha Nov 2014 #200
TransitJohn Nov 2014 #158
SunSeeker Nov 2014 #159
Cha Nov 2014 #174
SunSeeker Nov 2014 #181
Cha Nov 2014 #183
ucrdem Nov 2014 #171
Cha Nov 2014 #182
lovemydog Nov 2014 #180
Cha Nov 2014 #185
lovemydog Nov 2014 #189
flamingdem Nov 2014 #184
lovemydog Nov 2014 #187
flamingdem Nov 2014 #188
lovemydog Nov 2014 #190
joeglow3 Nov 2014 #195
Andy823 Nov 2014 #197
Cha Nov 2014 #198
Cha Nov 2014 #203
Cha Nov 2014 #204
Cha Nov 2014 #205

Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:20 AM

1. Can I a K..an I.. a C.. another K!? KICK!

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Response to Cha (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:29 AM

7. Look, this news has Cha sputtering almost incoherently!

 

Cha!

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Response to ChisolmTrailDem (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:38 AM

11. No, that's just my normal sputtering!

Chisolm

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:20 AM

2. Good! Now if they could just stop all the toxic air coming from Russia, we just might get a handle

on it.

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Response to William769 (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:25 AM

5. Yeah, the toxic Hot air coming

coming Russia.. we'd certainly get a better grip on our handle, William!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:22 AM

3. Hmm...'Kochsters'....

 

is that a new ecco-friendly high-performance electric car?


The new 454i Turbo Kochster ....................




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Response to Segami (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:34 AM

9. Au contraire, Segami.. It's the Billionaire Climate Change Deniers Club.. :(

It's Not Just The Koch Brothers Funding Climate Change Denial

This Drexel University professor discovered the largest and most consistent funders behind the climate change denial movement are a number of well-known conservative foundations, mostly through "dark money."

MOre..
http://crooksandliars.com/2013/12/its-not-just-koch-brothers-funding-climate

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Response to Cha (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:42 AM

77. China just said they won't Peak until 2030

 

And what will that peak be - they are already the Largest emitter of green house gases

How anyone can praise this as a break through is just as bad as the climate deniers

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #77)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 10:29 AM

104. That was my take away as well.

 

If anything china probably figures they will completely own us economically by 2030 and then they can do whatever they want anyway. They don't keep their promises when it comes to things that may stand in the way of their government's desires.

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #77)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:40 PM

132. Well ...

 

setting an date for reduction would be considered a break through by anyone that recognizes that prior to this announcement, there WAS no effort to reduce green house gases by the Chinese.

But "What do we want? ... EVERYTHING ... When do we want it? ... YESTERDAY! ... How we gonna get other nations to fall in line? ... {crickets}"

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Response to FreakinDJ (Reply #77)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:20 PM

166. In int'l news the last couple of weeks, there has been uneasiness about the pollution popping up

around Beijing and other parts of China. This is on top of the current uprising. People are starting to call in sick to work when it is really bad, which is astounding. China has its own reasons to stop the generating of pollutants leading to GW in their own backyard; in order to prove to its citizens that they are taking air quality & GW seriously. (I have no idea what the "A" in AGW means so I do not use that acronym, if I am wrong so be it.)

Now...whether something will be actually done about it, WTFK. Koch's won this election so we don't know what is going to happen - maybe one of them (or both) will kick off (sooner than later) (smib). If there is a vacuum in leadership, we can all start to enact policies, hurriedly, until they get their act together. If not, I see business as usual, with growth at 2-4%. No change in anything. Same ol same ol



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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:23 AM

4. The article is clear on what the US is doing to reduce emissions...

 

What is China doing? I'm not clear on what China is sacrificing with this deal?

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Response to woolldog (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:26 AM

6. Indeed. Great news. But with China, how do we trust but verify? eom

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Response to BP2 (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:49 AM

17. Hey BP.. I'll give this link to you that I posted to wooldog on China.. thanks

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Response to BP2 (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:20 AM

109. There's nothing to verify

China agrees to peak 15 years from now.

So it's in their interest to run up their emissions as much as possible to make that peak number as easy to live with as possible.

Hopefully there's more to it than that.

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Response to woolldog (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:40 AM

13. What China does depends a lot upon us.

After all a lot of China's carbon emissions comes from manufacturing products for us.
In effect we have off-shored our pollution, too.

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Response to earthside (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:27 PM

156. Exactly. nt

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Response to earthside (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:42 PM

170. With all the grumbling from the populace about the air pollution that is out of control

and with some slight accordance on the Umbrella Revolution (like all uprisings it is has dropped from the news quickly), I think that China will be like Germany by 2030 -- unlike us, unless we get our acts together.

Maybe it is the way I am reading his statement, but it is almost a shot across the bow moment. "Let's see who gets their first," attitude about it, which is good for us/US. If we do nothing, China takes over top dog slot for the next 100-350 years (not that there is anything wrong with that*) which has diplomats pausing in the West. China can explode in their markets if they turn inward and use those yuan's they've kept careful control of for decades, freezing out the West, because they've collectively decided to do something as a nation. They are good at it. They have millennial of experience of thinking generations down the road while we get distracted by the next shiny pretty we see.

This plays right into China's hands and will be interesting to see how we, as a nation, play by their rules or ours. This is a game they can win, economically and diplomatically.

* pop tv reference

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Response to woolldog (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:45 AM

14. From the link of John Kerry's OP in the NYT, wooldog

The Chinese targets also represent a major advance. For the first time China is announcing a peak year for its carbon emissions — around 2030 — along with a commitment to try to reach the peak earlier. That matters because over the past 15 years, China has accounted for roughly 60 percent of the growth in carbon dioxide emissions world-wide. We are confident that China can and will reach peak emissions before 2030, in light of President Xi’s commitments to restructure the economy, dramatically reduce air pollution and stimulate an energy revolution.

China is also announcing today that it would expand the share of total energy consumption coming from zero-emission sources (renewable and nuclear energy) to around 20 percent by 2030, sending a powerful signal to investors and energy markets around the world and helping accelerate the global transition to clean-energy economies. To meet its goal, China will need to deploy an additional 800 to 1,000 gigawatts of nuclear, wind, solar and other renewable generation capacity by 2030 – an enormous amount, about the same as all the coal-fired power plants that exist in China today, and nearly as much as the total electricity generation capacity of the United States.

There is no question that all of us will need to do more to push toward the de-carbonization of the global economy. But in climate diplomacy, as in life, you have to start at the beginning, and this breakthrough marks a fresh beginning: Two countries regarded for 20 years as the leaders of opposing camps in climate negotiations – have come together to find common ground, determined to make lasting progress on an unprecedented global challenge. Let’s ensure that this is the first step towards a world that is more prosperous and more secure.

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Response to woolldog (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:56 AM

87. Not even that, it gave a number on US reduction that comes with magic beans as the answer to how.

The Chinese side is to continue to ramp up their pollution for another decade and a half and then peak and recede from there. A "solution" based on exacerbation and then in the better part of a generation to supposedly start to slow down.

Sounds like PR not problem solving to me.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:31 AM

8. Whoa! Really?

Somebody pinch me.

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Response to Independent_Liberal (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:56 AM

21. Consider yourself pinched, Independent_Liberal! :)

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:36 AM

10. That's certainly a good thing

 

Hopefully the idiots who are about to assume control of the Senate don't manage to screw this up.

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Response to mythology (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:47 AM

15. I have no doubt about it.




I'm sure they have a long list of items that are bothersome to the corps
and the one percenters that they want to turn around in their favor.

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Response to mythology (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:59 AM

24. I'm thinking they'll be fuming like the billionaire Kocksters who fund Anti-Climate Change will

order them to do.. but, the President has his EO pen and I'm sure he's ready to use it.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:39 AM

12. We will get fucked on this

somehow.

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Response to Go Vols (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:02 AM

26. We'll see, Go Vols I'm gonna be optimistic!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:48 AM

16. Good luck getting it through the Senate NT

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Response to Ex Lurker (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:03 AM

27. I'm thinking Executive Order, Ex Lurker.

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Response to Cha (Reply #27)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:25 AM

34. EOs have nothing to do with treaties.

And your OP is about promises well into the future.

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Response to Ex Lurker (Reply #16)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:34 PM

116. So the voters who stayed home can have this as their first sign of what they could have had

There will be a lot of things.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:52 AM

18. Great news Cha!

I'd like the Koch's to suck the air
That they pollute so shamelessly

A deep breath here and some cancer there
May they pay for all eternity

They are the real thing
Kochsuckers!


Kudos President Obama!

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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #18)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:12 AM

30. I love John Kerry's OP in the NYT today, too, on this, she..

"There is no question that all of us will need to do more to push toward the de-carbonization of the global economy. But in climate diplomacy, as in life, you have to start at the beginning, and this breakthrough marks a fresh beginning: Two countries regarded for 20 years as the leaders of opposing camps in climate negotiations – have come together to find common ground, determined to make lasting progress on an unprecedented global challenge. Let’s ensure that this is the first step towards a world that is more prosperous and more secure."

Folks are thinking the Senate will mess this up but I'm thinking.. Executive Order and Oooops.. won't that make the Kocksters blow a few fuses.. they'll have ol ted scruz come out and says it's like "Obamacare for the Planet".



to President Obama and President Xi Jinping, she!

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Response to Cha (Reply #30)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:59 AM

62. I've always believed

Pres Obama is a community organizer at heart. He is simply working around Congress and working for the people. With this, and the benefits - such as they are - of Obamacare - he knows he's got folks behind him. Congress is going to reveal themselves for the pigs they are, if they fight these things the majorities want so much.

I think he should also go for gun control, taxing the rich, jobs bills, and all those other initiatives that have well over 50% of Americans behind them. Just come out with it; be transparent; name it for what it is, and let the Republican Congress reveal themselves - and fight all of us.

This is the silver lining: no more political IOUs from Pres Obama to any Congressional Dems. They turned their backs on him in the mid-terms, and look what it got them. I think this is an opportunity for him to be the guy we elected. Mr. Hope and Change.

Fingers crossed.

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #62)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:05 AM

65. I like how you've put that, cilla.. Mahalo!..

Fingers Crossed too.. and toes!



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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:54 AM

19. Not bad for a so-called lame duck who doesn't love the planet as much as Nixon.

 

, just in case.

Real response:

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Response to Ykcutnek (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:04 AM

28. Ye Ha! Well done, Ykcutnek!

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Response to Ykcutnek (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:11 AM

29. Excellent riposte, Ykcutnek!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:54 AM

20. Great to see this Cha!! This historic moment kind of out of the blue

the beautiful blue.

There's one smart man over there in China now, protecting the future for all.

Maybe he is like Nixon after all

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #20)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:20 AM

33. Outta the Beautiful Blue.. had poetically said, flamingdem!

Yeah, maybe PBO likes a clean environment too.. and historic pact on the Climate in China, yet!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:56 AM

22. I love this especially when the Repubs are attempting to erase

the Obama legacy.

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #22)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:27 AM

35. They can scrub and scrub and scrub, flamingdem.. they ain't

ever gonna do it!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:58 AM

23. yeah but, i heard he was like, OMG, chewing gum and stuff.

 

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Response to KMOD (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:29 AM

37. Yeah, we hear a lot things and then there's

Reality!

KMOD

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Response to KMOD (Reply #23)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:10 AM

76. LOL.. sorry, I didn't know what you were talking about..

:large
TheObamaDiary.com @TheObamaDiary
Follow
While US media focuses on President Obama chewing gum, he has reached historic agreement with China on Climate Change
6:22 PM - 11 Nov 2014 188 Retweets 115 favorites

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/11/12/history-made-thanks-president-obama/

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:00 AM

25. Such B.S. If Nixon was alive and President, he would have....

 

Got China to go 100% Solar, to have a $30 (U.S. equivalent) minimum wage, and got free education for all China AND US kids as retribution for their poor child labor practices.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:14 AM

31. But he couldn't bring back to life the half million people he killed in Laos and Cambodia...

Or take back Kissinger, Cheney or Rumsfeld or the Drug Wars. The poisoner of the well for over 40 years.

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Response to rufus dog (Reply #25)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:32 AM

39. And, he wouldn't be such a racist bigoted piglet, either.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:15 AM

32. Kick and rec! N/t

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Response to zappaman (Reply #32)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:34 AM

40. Mahalo, zappaman! Everything is cool on the Islands right now..

I decided to answer you in this thread instead of kicking the disingenuous one.

Aloha.. we had a lot of Dems come out for our Election!

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Response to Cha (Reply #40)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:36 AM

41. Ha!

I like your style!

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Response to zappaman (Reply #41)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:41 AM

44. Backatcha!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:27 AM

36. Not to burst any bubbles,

but this will never get past the new Congress. I wish I could believe otherwise.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:40 AM

43. The only real hope is that we work with states to get this done. But then that is also bad news. Rs

have control of a lot of states.

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Response to drm604 (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:44 AM

45. It may not have to

Some of the US gains would come from EPA rules. Another possibility (one that I remember Kerry speaking of back when he was a Senator and the Republicans controlled the entire federal government) is that a large amount of removal of carbon could be done at the state level. Back then the Northeastern states and the North Atlantic states had their own carbon reduction effort.

States like Massachusetts have moved to increase the % of energy that comes from renewable sources. I have seen a huge increase in solar panels even in the two years I have lived in VT.

In addition, there will be continuing reductions resulting in the big increase in fuel efficiency for cars that passed in 2009. This is something that has continuing results as cars age and are replaced. (At this point, I think that even a significant percent of used cars sold will be post 2009. )

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Response to karynnj (Reply #45)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:10 AM

49. Mahalo for that enlightment on how it can and is being done, karyn Executive Orders already issued

on Climate Change.. Perhaps more are forth coming?

Executive Order -- Preparing the United States for the Impacts of Climate Change

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/11/01/executive-order-preparing-united-states-impacts-climate-change

Executive Order -- Climate-Resilient International Development

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/09/23/executive-order-climate-resilient-international-development



Blue DuPage @BlueDuPage
Follow
Renewable Energy ‘Creates More Jobs Than Fossil Fuels’ http://ecowatch.com/2014/11/11/renewable-energy-jobs/ … #4jobs #pjnet #ccot #p2
4:20 AM - 11 Nov 2014

Kerry is really helpful on this too. I loved his OP in the NYT on the Importance of the Pact in China!

In One Fell Swoop Obama Announces Solar Jobs For 50,000 Veterans and Takes On Climate Change

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/10/24/fell-swoop-obama-announces-solar-jobs-50000-veterans-addresses-climate-change.html

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Response to drm604 (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:51 AM

47. Call me crazy, drm.. I'm thinking EO like these Executive Orders on our Climate Change..

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Response to drm604 (Reply #36)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:06 AM

48. Me thinks the Pentagon reports declaring climate change a threat to natl. security

 

will come into play.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:30 AM

38. Wonderful News!

My fear is it is too little too late, but it is progress.

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Response to Liberal Lolita (Reply #38)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:36 AM

54. Lets Hope it's not too late for our Planet, Liberal Lolita!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:39 AM

42. This is great but I do not see how we are going to accomplish this with the crazies in the Senate

and House. The Rs do not want any interference with their corporations.

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Response to jwirr (Reply #42)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:50 AM

56. There are other ways.. jwirr..

"It may not have to

Some of the US gains would come from EPA rules. Another possibility (one that I remember Kerry speaking of back when he was a Senator and the Republicans controlled the entire federal government) is that a large amount of removal of carbon could be done at the state level. Back then the Northeastern states and the North Atlantic states had their own carbon reduction effort.

States like Massachusetts have moved to increase the % of energy that comes from renewable sources. I have seen a huge increase in solar panels even in the two years I have lived in VT.

In addition, there will be continuing reductions resulting in the big increase in fuel efficiency for cars that passed in 2009. This is something that has continuing results as cars age and are replaced. (At this point, I think that even a significant percent of used cars sold will be post 2009. )"

karynVT http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=5804749

Executive Order -- Preparing the United States for the Impacts of Climate Change

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/11/01/executive-order-preparing-united-states-impacts-climate-change

Executive Order -- Climate-Resilient International Development

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/09/23/executive-order-climate-resilient-international-development



Blue DuPage @BlueDuPage
Follow
Renewable Energy ‘Creates More Jobs Than Fossil Fuels’ http://ecowatch.com/2014/11/11/renewable-energy-jobs/ … #4jobs #pjnet #ccot #p2
4:20 AM - 11 Nov 2014

Kerry is really helpful on this too. I loved his OP in the NYT on the Importance of the Pact in China!

In One Fell Swoop Obama Announces Solar Jobs For 50,000 Veterans and Takes On Climate Change

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/10/24/fell-swoop-obama-announces-solar-jobs-50000-veterans-addresses-climate-change.html

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Response to Cha (Reply #56)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:05 AM

106. That is good. I thought about the state levels. Even in Iowa the fields are full of wind machines

and here in MN I heard they are going to test that new ceramic road tiles that produce energy. I hope they do one up in the NE MN.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:50 AM

46. I don't agree that this is a game-changer. Just words

 

It's just a pledge, nothing more. No treaty was signed.

I'll believe it when China signs a treaty. They may be expecting Republicans to balk, meaning they have an excuse to back out themselves. China is notorious for being vague and never boxing themselves in, and I believe this is another instance where they've done exactly that.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:10 AM

50. ^THIS^

 

Sad, but true.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #46)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:25 AM

53. OTOH, China is not located on Planet Mars...

If the planet goes down the drain, they sink too...

I say promise them both Environment Nobel Prizes for the encouragement, and real ones for future accomplishments! Maybe that will work. I'm almost 62, so it won't affect me one way or another, but I feel for most of the Milennials won't go away before I'm gone to

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:21 AM

51. This is a huge game changer, folks

 

no need to be

[img][/img]

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Response to KMOD (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:55 AM

58. Perfect, KMOD.. I was looking for something like that with Eyore.. just last week!



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Response to KMOD (Reply #51)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:07 AM

99. That's the only mode for some people

 

Others are just haters who despise Obama so much that their first and immediate reaction is vitriol.

There's no helping that sort.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:23 AM

52. So, do we support fast-track on this, or distrust Obama again?

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Response to Hoyt (Reply #52)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:56 AM

60. I say the former! Mahalo Hoyt~

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Response to Cha (Reply #60)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:08 AM

67. Mahalo back Cha.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:45 AM

55. KICK! REC!

Shared!

PBO, thank you!

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Response to BlancheSplanchnik (Reply #55)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:59 AM

63. Mahalo Blanche!

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Response to Cha (Reply #63)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:16 PM

113. *mwah*

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:53 AM

57. K & R!

Not lame duck, that's corporate media and the anti-American monster Koch's congress who will eff themselves up and further damage this country but we will survive.

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Response to Iliyah (Reply #57)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:07 AM

66. Mahalo Iliyah~

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:55 AM

59. Sounds great!!!!

It isn't enough, but . . . it is a big improvement.

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Response to JDPriestly (Reply #59)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:14 AM

68. As John Kerry says in the link in the OP.. it's a start..

"There is no question that all of us will need to do more to push toward the de-carbonization of the global economy. But in climate diplomacy, as in life, you have to start at the beginning, and this breakthrough marks a fresh beginning: Two countries regarded for 20 years as the leaders of opposing camps in climate negotiations – have come together to find common ground, determined to make lasting progress on an unprecedented global challenge. Let’s ensure that this is the first step towards a world that is more prosperous and more secure."

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:58 AM

61. Kickety Kickety kickety pop!



They're doing the Cha-Cha-Cha, in case you didn't know. Thanks Cha for bringing us this news.

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Response to Hekate (Reply #61)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:22 AM

70. I did not know that, Hekate! LOL

It is great news!



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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:01 AM

64. And I've gotta say it, if no one else will:

LOOK AT THAT BEAUTIFUL SMILE, WILL YA? HELLA GORGEOUS PHOTO OF OUR PRES!!!!!

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Response to cilla4progress (Reply #64)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:26 AM

71. You know he's Happy, Cilla! Who wouldn't be?! Oh I

know.. all those who are spending Billion$$$$$$$$ to Deny it's even happening!

So this is kinda Huge.. China, one of the biggest polluters Agrees!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:15 AM

69. I can give a little bit of a perspective from the point of view of China

given that I lived there a year (and from the perspective of Korea where I've lived since 2004). The pictures you see online of Beijing and other places don't begin to describe how bad the overall pollution problem is there. It's not just air pollution, but water and soil pollution as well.

They get sandstorms from the Gobi Desert, sand that is picked up and blown east. The sand crosses over cities where pollution is occurring and it is carried by the sand over the eastern side of China and then over Korea and Japan (the sand has been found as far as the west coast of the US).

Here in Korea the sand storms are called Hwangsa (yellow dust) and occur primarily in the Spring and Fall. During these storms the dust, if inhaled, can make one very sick with flu and cold like symptoms (trust me it's happened a few times).

The Chinese people are getting sick of the pollution, rightfully so, and having the economy put before their health.

I know there are a few DUers that still live in China and maybe if they are around they could elaborate from their perspective as well.

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Response to davidpdx (Reply #69)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:52 AM

72. Thank you for your perspective, david! This is a huge deal as Kerry says..

"There is no question that all of us will need to do more to push toward the de-carbonization of the global economy. But in climate diplomacy, as in life, you have to start at the beginning, and this breakthrough marks a fresh beginning: Two countries regarded for 20 years as the leaders of opposing camps in climate negotiations – have come together to find common ground, determined to make lasting progress on an unprecedented global challenge. Let’s ensure that this is the first step towards a world that is more prosperous and more secure."

Andrew Restuccia ✔ @AndrewRestuccia
Follow
Republicans have long argued that U.S. shouldn't act on climate until China does. China is acting: http://politi.co/1u9ebmE
5:46 PM - 11 Nov 2014 48 Retweets 19 favorites

Liberal Librarian @Lib_Librarian
Follow
Media: How does it feel to be a lame duck?

PBO: Just reached a climate deal with China.


Media: ...

PBO: ...
7:00 PM - 11 Nov 2014

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/11/12/history-made-thanks-president-obama/

Those sandstorms off the Gobi Desert sound just awful.. and mixed in with the other pollution!.. so glad Chinese President Xi Jinping and President got together on this!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:57 AM

73. So, now even China is on board. Now watch the Republicans sabotage it

any bets?

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #73)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:02 AM

74. Oh, they'll try.. Kochsters want a dirty Planet.. but, I'm thinking there's ways around it noted in

the thread.

Andrew Restuccia ✔ @AndrewRestuccia
Follow
Republicans have long argued that U.S. shouldn't act on climate until China does. China is acting: http://politi.co/1u9ebmE
5:46 PM - 11 Nov 2014 48 Retweets 19 favorites

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Response to world wide wally (Reply #73)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:44 AM

186. They'll revert to Red-Baiting.

"Obummer is making secret deals with Communists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:06 AM

75. President Obama and Chinese President Xi Jinping met today in Beijing. Ju Peng/Xinhua/ZUMA TY!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:46 AM

78. Working and chewing gum at the same time.. lol

:large
TheObamaDiary.com @TheObamaDiary
Follow
While US media focuses on President Obama chewing gum, he has reached historic agreement with China on Climate Change
6:22 PM - 11 Nov 2014 188 Retweets 115 favorites

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/11/12/history-made-thanks-president-obama/

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Response to Cha (Reply #78)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:10 AM

107. ~



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Response to sheshe2 (Reply #107)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:52 PM

146. President Obama is Pressing ON, she!


meta @metaquest
Follow
President Obama is PRESSING ON. @TheDemocrats
6:34 AM - 12 Nov 2014 69 Retweets 57 favorites

meta @metaquest
Follow
It turns out to be easier & more productive for Pres Obama to deal w/China than @GOP, who refuse to compromise and serve our best interests
6:20 AM - 12 Nov 2014
38 Retweets 13 favorites meta @metaquest
Follow

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/11/12/a-tweet-or-two-167/

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Response to Cha (Reply #146)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:58 PM

150. Yes he is my dear Cha!

great tweets from TOD!

Love the graphic~

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:59 AM

79. This is good news

K & R

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Response to malaise (Reply #79)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:38 AM

80. Mahalo malaise.. it's a great start for the US and China to work together on Global Climate Change!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:12 AM

81. Really encouraging news!

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Response to RiverLover (Reply #81)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:15 AM

82. Yes it is, RiverLover!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:23 AM

83. President Obama in the 2012 Campaign

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:49 AM

84. Where's the deal?

Oh yeah, it'll be signed sometime next year. Maybe. You never know what the final wording will say. Then you have to wait 10-15 years to see if their targets are met, which if they're not, nobody will remember it anyway.

According to the plan, the United States will reduce carbon emissions 26-28 percent below 2005 levels by 2025, nearly twice the existing target—without imposing new restrictions on power plants or vehicles.


Right. No limits, but we'll limit, or even decrease, our impact. Yeah, no, right, that makes sense.

includes headline-grabbing undertakings


They're good with those things. These guys are professionals.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #84)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:06 AM

85. Your predictable, pathetic attempt to trash this is noted and discarded..

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Response to Cha (Reply #85)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:58 AM

88. Just going by history is all

At least a few thousand years of it.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #88)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:04 AM

90. Yeah, well, in those thousands of years... good things do happen.

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Response to Cha (Reply #90)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:02 AM

96. Yeah, but those good things always come at a cost

Everything has a downside to the equation.

It's great that they're talking and throwing numbers around, but we've seen it before.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #96)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:31 PM

144. Yeah, yeah, yeah.. Nothing worth it comes easy.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:38 AM

86. "What happens when 3 hour meeting becomes a 5 hour one?"

Nerdy Wonka @NerdyWonka
Follow
What happens when a 3hr meeting becomes a 5hr one? --> Historic #ClimateChange deal with China

Bravo, Pres. Obama!

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/11/12/history-made-thanks-president-obama/

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:04 AM

89. Call me a lame duck will you? nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #89)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:07 AM

91. "Media: How does it feel to be a lame duck?".. strutting their pressitute feathers..

Liberal Librarian @Lib_Librarian
Follow
Media: How does it feel to be a lame duck?

PBO: Just reached a climate deal with China.


Media: ...

PBO: ...
7:00 PM - 11 Nov 2014

http://theobamadiary.com/2014/11/12/history-made-thanks-president-obama/

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Response to Cha (Reply #91)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:09 AM

92. It's going to be an interesting two years. nt

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Response to bemildred (Reply #92)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:26 AM

93. Oh yes, not your average "lame duck".

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:28 AM

94. Excellent news -

I hope Obama as a lawyer has researched how he can pass executive orders to accomplish all of this. Maybe having China as the partner will make the difference. I know Congress will not help him willingly but he is trying to do the right thing here. I support this 100%.

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Response to TBF (Reply #94)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:57 AM

95. I sure do hope all goes swimmingly with the Global Climate pact between the United States

and China, TBF. That both countries are able to hold up their end of the Deal.

Executive Order -- Preparing the United States for the Impacts of Climate Change

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/11/01/executive-order-preparing-united-states-impacts-climate-change

Executive Order -- Climate-Resilient International Development

Some previous news on Executive Ordesr and Climate Change..

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/09/23/executive-order-climate-resilient-international-development



Blue DuPage @BlueDuPage
Follow
Renewable Energy ‘Creates More Jobs Than Fossil Fuels’ http://ecowatch.com/2014/11/11/renewable-energy-jobs/ … #4jobs #pjnet #ccot #p2
4:20 AM - 11 Nov 2014

Kerry is really helpful on this too. I loved his OP in the NYT on the Importance of the Pact in China!

In One Fell Swoop Obama Announces Solar Jobs For 50,000 Veterans and Takes On Climate Change

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/10/24/fell-swoop-obama-announces-solar-jobs-50000-veterans-addresses-climate-change.html

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Response to Cha (Reply #95)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:03 AM

97. I read an article on FB

that 90 companies are responsible for most of the global warming - starting with the top oil companies of course.

The oil & gas lobbyists will be all over this, but bringing China on board is brilliant. We owe them a lot of $$$ and not even Congress can get around that. That puts China in a position in power in this situation. Thank goodness.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:05 AM

98. The devil is in the details

How exactly is this treaty going to get through congress? I could see it passing in 2017 when the new blue congress is sworn in, but not in 2015 with a denier running the senate environmental committee (inhoff).

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:20 AM

100. 2030. Am I missing something?

 

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Response to lonestarnot (Reply #100)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:14 AM

108. No, you are not

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:25 AM

101. Putin made him do it.

Obama hates the environment.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:52 AM

102. it's only a "game changer" when the game is actually changed.

I will hold off popping the champaign until I see some results that have real world impact.

I have lived a lot of years and I have witnessed many a "game changing" moment with no change in said game.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:57 AM

103. Reducing emissions "below 2005 levels" doesn't impress me. Not going to save the planet.

As an agreement in principle between the US and China that carbon emissions are dangerous, however, this is HUGE.

Far more than a dime's worth of difference.

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Response to Orsino (Reply #103)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:07 PM

152. Exactly, Orsino!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 10:40 AM

105. K&R

Sad when just sheer recognition at this point seems like a breakthrough but it must begin somewhere.
It is the greatest evil this world has faced and faced it must be. When we start looking at gross emitters the same way we viewed that girl painting rocks in parks. They are both defacing and destroying our wilderness and our world. One just does it in a more insidious, long term & permanent way while pocketing the proceeds of destruction to be shared between friends invested in the cause.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:24 AM

110. "without imposing new restrictions on power plants or vehicles"??? What does that mean?

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #110)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:26 AM

112. It means

 

a) economic contraction
b) negative population growth
c) both

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:25 AM

111. Do I understand this correctly?

 

We'll reduce our carbon pollution 27% below 2005 levels by 2025. In exchange, China "expects" to stop annually increasing its CO2 pollution five years later?

Yay, I guess.

The US is in environmental negotiations. China is in economic and trade policy negotiations.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:20 PM

114. K & R, Mahalo Cha

Very positive. Aloha.

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Response to mahina (Reply #114)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:12 PM

153. Yes, it is, mahina.. China's on board.. easier to deal with China than US recons.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:31 PM

115. The pollution is finally getting to China

This could do a lot to make their economy more on par and not so cheap as to undermine ours!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:38 PM

117. K&R for excellent news!

Thank you President Obama and Secretary Kerry.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 12:57 PM

118. Too little too late

 

Unless these guys shared some technological breakthrough that the rest of us are unaware of in energy production, storage or transmission, this is about 40 years too late.

That, and the Rs will scuttle it. We can't do anything with the environment when we have a black President.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #118)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:01 PM

119. +1 nt

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #118)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:34 PM

161. "We can't do anything with the environment when we have a black President." WTF!? We already have.

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Response to Cha (Reply #161)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:00 PM

163. Should have used the old sarcasm thingy

 

Sorry Cha.

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Response to Android3.14 (Reply #163)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:05 PM

164. Sorry, Android! I didn't recognize you as someone who was being sarcastic.. and that is my BAD!

what was I thinking!?

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:11 PM

120. To phrase it another way, China agrees to only continue to make their own polution problem worse

for about 15 more years if the US agrees to a significant reduction (26-28% over 2005 levels) in the next 10 years.

It literally doesn't change the game for China for another 15 years and isn't binding in the US either. It sounds like more "photo-op" diplomacy.

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #120)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:46 PM

128. Exactly nt

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Response to hughee99 (Reply #120)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:31 PM

137. This was a trade negotiation. China won.

 

A 27% reduction "without imposing new restrictions on power plants or vehicles" requires either economic contraction or exodus.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:14 PM

121. Just in time for a Republican Senate that can veto and torpedo

 

any treaties. Oh well, the thought was good.

James Inhofe will head up the relevant Senate Committee after January. Now there's a comforting thought.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:49 PM

122. These are promises from a lame-duck Democratic President that has zero pull with Congress.

 

How will he implement these promises? How is this different than promising to close Guantanamo?

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #122)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:05 PM

124. He's doing his job. Now let's do ours.

Is it your preference that he just spend the next two years playing badminton because the Refucklicans won't help?

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #124)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:41 PM

138. Of course not, how absurd. I am not going to get my hopes up over empty rhetoric. He fooled me once

 

and that's too much.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #138)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:45 PM

139. So he's blamed when he doesn't take strongly liberal positions

and he's blamed when he does because your clairvoyance tells you it's a conspiracy to do the exact opposite.

Here's a radical idea: Reward political leaders who advocate issues you support, instead of turning a good thing into a bad thing out of paranoia about their motives.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #139)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:03 PM

141. Please, please don't put words into my mouth. I appreciate it when he speaks out for

 

liberal causes. In the last 6 years he's done far too little. I simply point out that just because he speaks out, doesn't mean there will be any results. Now it's time for him to speak out against the Keystone pipeling and Frickin-Fracking. They are related to climate change.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #141)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:28 PM

143. But if he spoke out about fracking, wouldn't you just have the same attitude?

Dismissing it as mere rhetoric and questioning his motives instead of applauding his position?

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #143)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:56 PM

148. Yes, he would.. that's the poster's purpose. Thank you, True Blue Door

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #143)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:30 PM

167. If he spoke out about fracking it would be quite a turnaround because he has

 

already openly embraced it. I think he said it was the bridge to a new energy and the oil companies cheered.

But you do have a point. I would be very skeptical. I would most likely consider it rhetoric. In 2007, had he said he opposed fracking, I would have believed it. Today, I would be very skeptical.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #167)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:37 PM

168. It's not an exaggeration to say this is the Greenest US administration in history.

But if you insist on judging it against your ideals rather than against the political situation in America, then you're never going to find an administration praise-worthy. Every human being will fall short and you'll always have an unconstructively negative view of everyone who is on your side and in a position to do anything about it.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #168)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:46 PM

172. If you are saying that I am not easily satisfied, I will agree. While some here wallow in the

 

rhetoric, pretending that everything is peachy, I see on a daily basis the struggles that have been getting worse every year for decades. I see people still losing their homes to the banksters that run the country. I see an infant mortality rate that is unbelievable and I see children dying from poverty and lack of decent health care.

And what environmental damage will be allowed via the secret Free Trade Agreements? Tell me I don't have good reason to be skeptical.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #172)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:55 PM

175. I say again: Greenest administration in US history.

You don't have to be satisfied with that in the sense of not trying to do more, but sincerity demands being satisfied that this is an environmentally active and responsible administration. And you don't seem to be aware of that.

You seem to think the measure of an administration is how far it deviates from what you imagine to be a perfect situation rather than whether it improved the one it inherited. That's not rational. That's judging people's morality by measuring them in units of Gandhis and then calling them immoral because the number is invariably less than 1.

He's the President of the United States, not of the Sierra Club, so sometimes other factors weigh into decisions - other factors like the existence of two other branches of government he has no say over. But he moved the nation as a whole significantly forward on environmental issues. So calling his motives into question and belittling his environmental agenda is just outrageous.

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #175)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:12 PM

199. Mahalo True Blue Door!

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Response to True Blue Door (Reply #139)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:38 PM

179. Nailed it

Reward political leaders who advocate issues you support, instead of turning a good thing into a bad thing out of paranoia about their motives.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #122)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:06 PM

131. Can we blame Obama for getting it negotiated?

I, too, expect it to go the way of Kyoto once the oil, gas and coal lobbies exert their influence. 2025 is a long way away.

Guantanomo was more like campaign posturing. If I wanted to be cynical, I guess this could be legacy posturing. In the end, it may just be a feel-good headline, but Obama deserves some credit here.

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Response to Deny and Shred (Reply #131)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 04:52 PM

140. I am not blaming Obama. But words are cheap.

 

Especially now he has no chance of getting anything passed that the Republicans don't want. Some people get so excited if he merely says what they want to here. I will cheer when I see results.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #140)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:41 AM

193. No argument here

I feel we've had plenty of words without results, and I'm not grabbing the pom poms over this. Results, at least ones you and I might agree with, will be few and far between in the next two years. This agreement, though tenuous, is better than no agreement to try to help the environment.

At the least, this puts the onus on Republicans and right-leaning dems to come out against it - a positive in the next campaign should they choose to use it as such.

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Response to Deny and Shred (Reply #193)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:24 PM

194. You make a good point. This will put pressure on the Republicans. Now I'd like to see

 

a moratorium on Fracking and a definite stop on the Keystone pipeline.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #194)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:32 PM

196. Wake me when that happens. I'll hold my breath.

I'll be the guy turning blue in the corner.

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Response to rhett o rick (Reply #122)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:55 PM

147. Oh how freaking predicable.. wahwahwah.. all you can do whine about good news with China on board?

Last edited Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:22 PM - Edit history (1)

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Response to Cha (Reply #147)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:16 PM

176. Predictable isn't even the word. This is being hailed as HUGE news througout Asia and the Pacific

By academics, scientists and activists alike.

http://theconversation.com/us-china-climate-deal-at-last-a-real-game-changer-on-emissions-34148

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/barack-obama-praises-historic-climate-deal-as-labor-steps-up-attack-on-coalition-20141112-11l6e1.html

The fact that the usual crew here still cling to their "I'm ever so disappointed and/or concerned" meme is as predictable as it is irrelevant and boring as all hell.

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Response to Number23 (Reply #176)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:28 PM

178. "US-China climate deal: at last, a real game-changer on emissions" " ..

Barack Obama praises 'historic' climate deal as Labor steps up attack on Coalition

Mahalo for the links, 23.. and the view from Australia!

btw, I cleaned up my "predictable".

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Response to Cha (Reply #178)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:02 AM

191. And while the naysayers -- "left" and right -- wail and gnash, the praise keeps on coming

'UN praises China, US for ‘highly significant’ announcement on emissions cuts'

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=49317#.VGRI58nTh4A

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Response to Number23 (Reply #191)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:20 AM

192. "UN praises China, US for ‘highly significant’ announcement on emissions cuts" Excellent addition

to the growing praise from around the world, 23! Thank you!

from your link..

"12 November 2014 – The new measures announced by the Governments of China and the United States in addressing their greenhouse gas emissions over the coming decades is a positive step towards achieving a more comprehensive accord at a global climate conference to be held in Paris next year, top United Nations officials have confirmed.

Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon commended the “significant and timely announcement” – pronounced by US President Barack Obama and Chinese President Xi Jinping on the tail-end of a high-level meeting in Beijing – and thanked the two leaders for their “personal commitment to work together to remove any impediments to reaching an agreement in Paris.”

“China and the United States have demonstrated the leadership that the world expects of them,” said Mr. Ban, in a statement attributable to his spokesperson.

“This leadership demonstrated by the Governments of the world’s two largest economies will give the international community an unprecedented chance to succeed at reaching a meaningful, universal agreement in 2015.”

I like SG Ban Ki-moon's attitude.. refreshing after hearing from the "left" and the rwnutters.. especially ted scruz.. LOL

Something everyone who cares about the Planet should be doing.. Thanking US President Barack Obama and Chinese President Xi Jinping!


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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 01:53 PM

123. The M$M media is about to start criticizing

In 5... 4... 3...

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Response to Dopers_Greed (Reply #123)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:50 PM

162. Bank it.. criticizing and whining.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:18 PM

125. Change has to happen on the individual level...

for it to have any significant impact on already runaway climate change. That means everyone has to cut down significantly on their individual driving AND red meat intake, among other things. At the climate march there was a lot of fingerpointing at industry, and while they have to do their part, if we don't fundamentally change our lifestyles nothing government does will matter much. You could liken it to expecting the 1% to spend the 99% out of the Great Recession - mathematically impossible. China says they are going to peak at 2030? Way too late for our species!

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Response to americannightmare (Reply #125)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:32 PM

201. I agree with this post

 

It seems like everybody wants somebody else to do something and doesnt want to do anything themselves.

Most people on this forum could cut their energy use 28% on a few months, and if everybody made the change we could come close to hitting the goal very quickly.

I made a thread about energy savings and asking people how much energy they use and it sunk like a rock. For the record I used 156kwh and 20ccf of gas last month. Even in the middle of summer I dont go over 200 kwh per month.

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Response to Travis_0004 (Reply #201)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:34 PM

202. Total agreement! Sorry I didn't see your thread, Travis

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:22 PM

126. The TPP and Keystone will undo any deal agreed upon.

 

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Response to JRLeft (Reply #126)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 09:18 PM

177. What effect do either of those have on emissions?

TPP won't increase our emissions, and our counterparties are countries like Brunei and Malaysia that aren't significant emitters in the scheme of things. Keystone is emissions neutral (or slightly positive since the trains they currently use are non-zero-emission).

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:42 PM

127. Thank you Cha for the good news.

I love good news and you always come through.

Aloha, mahalo and have a wonderful rest of your day my friend!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 02:47 PM

129. Indeed!!

This could prove to be the greatest accomplishment of the Obama presidency.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:00 PM

130. Very short on meaningfull actions

New research today won't translate to much installed savings in only 10 years. Our large scale facilities take that long to go from drawing board to operation. Half the vehicle fleet in 2025 will be built in the next 4 years. Will 2019 model year average 42mpg?
Aggressive goals are fine but meeting this one is ??

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Response to One_Life_To_Give (Reply #130)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:48 PM

173. We'll see.. China's on board now.. more than a few actually think that's Huge.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:44 PM

133. K&R to both parts! !!

 

Obama and Kerry did an amazing job. And Kudos to the others parts of the agreement as well. !!!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:46 PM

134. Yeah, good luck with that.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:53 PM

135. Naomi Klein has some great things to say about this:

Timing isn’t everything but it sure helps. After the mid-term elections, the mood in climate circles was getting pretty grim. We faced the prospect of a Republican-dominated House and Senate overturning emission controls, ramming through Keystone XL and elevating a climate denier (James Inhofe) to chair of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee. Already there was talk that upcoming UN climate negotiations were dead on arrival.

In this context, the US-China climate deal is a badly needed piece of good news. It signals that Barack Obama is willing to expend political capital fighting for his climate legacy.

It Makes It Harder For Republicans to Break Obama’s Promises

The deal is also tactically smart: by tying the emission reduction targets of both countries together in a bilateral deal, the President is making sure that his successor will have to weigh any desire to break these commitments against the risks of alienating America most important trading partner. That’s smart.

It Robs Climate Obstructionists of Their Best Argument

Most significantly, commitments made by China under the deal take away what has historically been the most effective argument in defense of climate negligence in the US: “Why should we stop polluting if China won’t?” For the first time, China is committing to capping its emissions and acknowledging that there must be a limit to its coal-powered growth juggernaut.

Much more here: http://thischangeseverything.org/some-very-initial-thoughts-on-the-us-china-deal/

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Response to lovemydog (Reply #135)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:20 PM

155. Brilliant lovemydog! Naomi Klein lays it all out.. talk about "good timing".. I do know that the

President wouldn't be doing this just for show. He wants to get this done and is working on it..which is exponentially more than those sitting around their computers complaining about it.






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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 03:58 PM

136. Personal observation: most people are sadly addicted to stupid and shitty news.

Last edited Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:20 PM - Edit history (1)

CNN's headline is about a couple of people dangling from the World Trade Center. Looking at the news here at DU, people are engaged in petty arguments over who 'looks better' over the stupid internet.

Progressives have for years been fighting (or more accurately in many cases, paying lip service to fighting) for carbon reduction agreements between the USA and China. With the stroke of a pen and probably a lot of work from President Obama and his team of advisors and diplomats, the USA and China have reached a major accord with wide ranging implications.

This should be the lead story on every news source and should be one of the most talked-about topics here at Democratic Underground! This is major news that could effect the future of our planet and its animals. What do we get? A few comments. A few recommendations. Not much more. Yeeeeeeesh. That's ridiculous.

Why are so many addicted to shitty news? I do not know.

We must break that addiction. Individually.

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Response to lovemydog (Reply #136)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 05:20 PM

142. Bump for huge news - by far the most important story of the day, week, month and maybe year.

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Response to lovemydog (Reply #136)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:32 PM

160. Well Done, lmd! It would have been HUGE in the USmedia if Nixon would have clinched it!!!!!!

"Progressives have for years been fighting (or more accurately in many cases, paying lip service to fighting) for carbon reduction agreements between the USA and China. With the stroke of a pen and probably a lot of work from President Obama and his team of advisors and diplomats, the USA and China have reached a major accord with wide ranging implications"

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:49 PM

145. I am not surprised.

 

I spent July 2013 in China and had only one English language TV channel. President Xi was giving speech after speech about the need to address climate change by starting serious work on long-term solutions. Sure, it was Chinese TV, but why would he hammer away on this so relentlessly unless it was actually a priority.

This is a good thing in every possible way and President Obama deserves credit, as does President Xi.

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Response to hifiguy (Reply #145)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:11 PM

165. Interesting! Mahalo for your perspective, hifiguy! The repubs were always saying it won't do any

good unless China's on board..

Why The GOP Is So Flustered By US-Sino Climate Change Deal

"One reason the GOP is making so much noise about the surprise climate change deal with China is that the lack of action by China has long been a central line of attack on any US efforts to take action on carbon emissions. So long as China wasn't moving, what difference would it make if the US moved, other than to further disadvantage US business? At least that's how the GOP argument went."

Climate Desk has a great reel up showing just how prevalent this line of attack was from Republicans

MOre
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/us-china-climate-change-deal

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 06:57 PM

149. very good news

Good start.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:01 PM

151. Sure it is tell the repubs in congress

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:18 PM

154. NOW, CAN THE CHINESE AND US SURVIVE UNTIL THE BEFITS OF THE CLIMATE TREATY START?

The air in the huge Chinese capitol was too filthy to breathe, even with a short term massive downturn of atmospheric pollution...We don't have more than six years to wait for conditions to continue getting worse...So, how's this a "gamechanger"?

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Response to drynberg (Reply #154)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:29 PM

157. Right. Fuck it. Let's not do anything!

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Response to drynberg (Reply #154)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:37 PM

169. It's A Gamechanger because We finally have China on Board.. Thanks Obama!

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Response to drynberg (Reply #154)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 11:14 PM

200. Because it is.. to those who know how significant it is.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:32 PM

158. Sweet. More retiring coal plants for gas plants, which means more fracking.

Yay!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 07:32 PM

159. A good start. nt

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #159)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:49 PM

174. A damn good start, SunSeeker! China could still be ignoring it like the US gopolluters.

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Response to Cha (Reply #174)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:06 PM

181. Worse, U.S. gopolluters are spending millions trying convince everyone it doesn't exist.

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Response to SunSeeker (Reply #181)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:05 AM

183. Billion$! I heard! The Chinese are smarter than US GOPolluters.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 08:45 PM

171. He tried to get a deal at Copenhagen, back in 2009, but Climategate scotched that plan.

That was the business where Assange published a boatload of CRU emails he supposedly came by anonymously. Yeah right.

Anyway this is great news, thanks Cha!

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Response to ucrdem (Reply #171)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 11:31 PM

182. Mahalo for that history, ucr.. Assange had a hand in scortching Copenhagen?!!!

And, yes.. it's super good News!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Wed Nov 12, 2014, 10:57 PM

180. Bumping for the night owls.

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Response to lovemydog (Reply #180)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:19 AM

185. Mahalo lovemydog.. it's really night owlish now!

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Response to Cha (Reply #185)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 01:01 AM

189. Hoo? Hoooo is a night owl?

I am!

I'm letting this amazing accord sink in Cha.

I think it's in the top two of the Obama Administration's historic accomplishments. Right up there with the Affordable Care Act. Of course there are many many more. These two alone though rank Obama's Presidency with the greatest since FDR, in my opinion.

Of course the corporate media and full-time negativists won't see it that way. Screw them both. This is major good news for the entire world!

Have a great rest of the evening Cha!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:13 AM

184. Yay once more

Even the cynics are taking this one seriously.. well some!

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #184)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:56 AM

187. Yes. Of course, they'll be cynical again in about

3,2,1...right about now.

Meanwhile we've got one of human beings' greatest accomplishments of our generation staring us in the face. It makes me very happy.

Have a good night flamingdem!

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Response to lovemydog (Reply #187)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 12:58 AM

188. I really had gone into despair about this

and really didn't expect China to step up.

Hope springs eternal lovemydog and we still have some!

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Response to flamingdem (Reply #188)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 01:05 AM

190. Me too flamingdem. Hope is the thing with feathers

as I believe Emily Dickenson and Big Bird in your avatar will attest.

Way too often in the past few years I've felt like that hilarious title of one Woody Allen's books: Without Feathers.

This evening I am with feathers! Hooray!

Sleep well my fellow democrat.

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 02:29 PM

195. So, China says shit won't decrease until maybe 2030 and that is a gamechanger?

 

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 06:52 PM

197. K&R nt

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Response to Andy823 (Reply #197)

Thu Nov 13, 2014, 07:14 PM

198. Mahalo Andy!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 02:11 AM

203. Kick for the Planet!

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 06:09 AM

204. Yes a Gamechanger

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Response to Cha (Original post)

Fri Nov 14, 2014, 07:47 AM

205. K4Planet

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