I was wrong about the Second Amendment: Why my view of guns totally changed

[demmiblue]

This discussion thread was locked as off-topic by JNelson6563 (a host of the General Discussion forum).

Source: Salon

Noah Pozner did nothing to change my mind, except die. Before he died, I believed a few sensible gun laws could save children like Noah Pozner. After he died, after he and his Sandy Hook classmates were mowed down by a man with a gun, I changed my mind.

After he died, I realized an old custom had to die with him, so a nobler one could take its place. Before Noah Pozner died, I thought there was nothing wrong with the Second Amendment a little common sense couldn’t fix. After he died, I’ve come to believe “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms” no longer promotes our life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but daily threatens them. How free are we when more people are shot and killed each year in America than populate the towns in which many of us live? How free are we when a backpack that unfolds into a bulletproof covering is a must-have item for schoolchildren?

“A well-regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.”

While I concede that a well-regulated militia might be necessary to the security of a free state, that role is now ably served by our military, professionally trained and highly disciplined, drawn from the ranks of our families and friends, from whom we have nothing to fear. We no longer need Minutemen. The British have not surrounded Concord. This is not “Independence Day” and we’re not under alien attack. I cannot imagine any circumstance in which our government would urge us to arm ourselves in defense of our country. Our nation has outgrown its need for an armed citizenry. The disadvantages of widespread gun ownership far outweigh any perceived advantage. Ask the parents of Noah Pozner. Ask African-American residents of Ferguson, Missouri. Ask what America’s love affair with guns has meant to them.

The merit of a position can be gauged by the temperament of its supporters, and these days the NRA reminds me of the folks who packed the courtroom of the Scopes monkey trial, fighting to preserve a worldview no thoughtful person espoused. This worship of guns grows more ridiculous, more difficult to sustain, and they know it, hence their theatrics, their parading through Home Depot and Target, rifles slung over shoulders. Defending themselves, they say. From what, from whom? I have whiled away many an hour at Home Depots and Targets and never once come under attack.

Read more: http://www.salon.com/2014/11/13/i_was_wrong_about_the_second_amendment_why_my_view_of_guns_totally_changed/

[Hoyt]

1. Unfortunately, gunners believe Noah is just price we must pay so yahoos can keep their gunz.

"We cannot let the most fearful among us set our nation’s tone, lest we descend to that sorry state we labored centuries to rise above. It is time for America to grow up, to become adults, so that children like Noah Pozner have a fighting chance to do the same."

[Nuclear Unicorn]

3. I guess rape and assault are the price to be paid for your fear of guns.

Please remind everyone how much you support a woman's right to use a gun defend herself from a rapist.

[Darb]

7. Weak sauce.

Nice try though.

[Hoyt]

9. Truthfully, women probably have more reason to have a gun than men.

Besides, I'm really not fanatically against someone having a gun or two AT HOME for defense and hunting. I am against the yahoos who buy multiple lethal weapons, promote gunz, introduce their kids to the cult early on, strap them on to go to the store, practice shooting targets that resemble people, are into gunz because they are afraid of minorities (the main reason gunz have proliferated in this country), etc. There are plenty of ways to defend yourself without a gun.

[Veilex]

19. " There are plenty of ways to defend yourself without a gun" - I'm rather fond of martial arts

for exactly that purpose.

I can defend myself and I get to choose to not accidentally take a life I didn't want to take.

[Travis_0004]

25. Martial arts doesnt help everybody

Im 6'4, 240 and have a few years of boxing experience. If somebody breaks into my house, Im still going for my gun. Even if they only have a knife, Im not interested in hand to hand combat.

Do you think a 70 year old woman shoud take up martial arts to defend herself from a 20 year old man?

[Flatulo]

33. Good for you. I'm disable and can't walk 10 feet, let

alone grapple with someone who is whole and healthy.

[knightmaar]

20. Women are not well served by having guns

A woman is more likely to be shot by her boyfriend/husband than ever use that gun to defend herself.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/dv2real.htm

Don't invest in guns for women. Invest in making a society where violence against women is rare.

[Hoyt]

22. I definitely agree with that.

[mountain grammy]

29. In other words, sanity!

[jeff47]

23. Well, let's look at what actually happens.

Justifiable homicide by private citizens, 2006-2010.
In 2010, there were 232 cases where a private citizen killed a felon in the act of committing that felony using a firearm. So that 232 includes your theoretical rapist, as well as every other felony. For the sake of this discussion, let's assume every single one of those 232 are women shooting men trying to rape them - that massive overcounting will help correct for woundings.

Forcible Rape:

There were an estimated at 84,767 forcible rapes reported to law enforcement in 2010.

So...we need to allow people to have guns, because it stopped 232 rapes out of 84,767. Or 0.27%

Given the 8,775 murders in 2010 by firearms, that doesn't seem like a good trade-off.

I eagerly await your indignant "you wouldn't feel that way if it was you getting raped" reply. Alternatively, you could go with the "banning guns wouldn't stop any of those murders" reply, whereafter I get to point to statistics from Australia showing it vastly reduced them.

[valerief]

26. A patriarchal culture facilitates rape. Better to devalue patriarchy than value guns. nt

[upaloopa]

30. Gee have gun no rape. Well maybe we need to

hand out guns to all our young girls. Imagine all girls and women packing heat.
A gun nuts dream. You show me yours and I'll show you mine has new meaning!

[hunter]

32. Without very intense training, a gun in a purse isn't much "protection" against a random rapist.

It might be of some use dealing with a recognized stalker not known to carry arms himself, but the rational solution to that problem is for the law to deal with stalkers effectively with something more than restraining orders.

In spite of what we see on television, and hear in anecdotes, guns are rarely useful in self defense. They usually make a bad situation much worse.

Look at cops -- they are supposedly trained to use guns, but they frequently shoot "suspects" for no good reason, they shoot innocent people, bystanders, and they are occasionally shot with their own guns.

[alcibiades_mystery]

4. Correct

Gunner shitheads abound. It's pointless discussing anything with these assholes.

[hack89]

2. The 2A is not the problem as it still allows strict gun control

AWBs, UBCs, registration, NFTA registration and taxes, training requirements - all perfectly constitutional. The only explicit right Americans have is the right to own a hand gun in their home for self defense. Everything else is on the table.

[badtoworse]

6. What are your thoughts about Peruta?

If it survives, the right would be extended to carrying a gun outside the home.

[Darb]

8. I'll tell you my thoughts,

the cowards can shove those guns up their bums.

[badtoworse]

14. What an erudite response.

[hack89]

15. Good ruling. Concealed carry will still be strictly regulated

Peruta simply replaces may issue with shall issue. If someone meets all the legal requirements for concealed carry then they should be allowed to carry.

[badtoworse]

16. I agree.

[sarisataka]

17. Shhh...

We don't want to hear that the only reason to eliminate the Second Amendment would be to ban most/all guns- because nobody is saying that...

Also ignore the new Minnesota domestic offender law that breezed though the legislature after input from *gasp* gun owners. They gutted the law by asking that there be a due process judicial review rather than leaving all authority in the hands of police.

[99Forever]

5. Truth to insanity.

Gun Culture is a mental illness.

[Hepburn]

13. Amen....n/t

[Johonny]

18. +1

[mountain grammy]

31. Yes.

[Scuba]

10. But, but, but ....

It is the dawn of World War III. In mid-western America, a group of teenagers bands together to defend their town, and their country, from invading Soviet forces.

[abelenkpe]

11. K&r

[Veilex]

21. This topic always makes me think of these two songs

&

[Indydem]

24. A Quaker who doesn't like guns.

Color me surprised.

What I won't be surprised about it a bevy of Du'ers that flock to support Gulley in this issue, but would otherwise destroy him because he believes in a sky daddy.

[yallerdawg]

27. Ignoring the first half of a Constitutional Amendment...

has always struck me as incredible! I just have never seen how the back half can be the God Given Right it has become.

[Deny and Shred]

34. Moi aussi.

The RKBA is in service of a 'well-regulated milita'. Nowhere do the FFs say it is to protect one's self, family, home nor property. If the FFs meant that, that could have said so. Those that insist on such rely solely on subsequent court decisions, not on the Constitution nor the Bill of Rights.

Article 1, Section 8 elucidates the FFs idea of a Militia, much to the chagrin of the notion of 'individual self-defense'.

Somehow, our modern society has morphed the Constitution and the Bible to mean whatever one wants them to mean. They no longer mean what they state in black & white.

[upaloopa]

28. Waiting for the gungeon's arrival.

This should be good.

I agree 100% with the author of this article.