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Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:05 PM

Liberal Arts? What the fuck are they good for?

HEADLINE: Pro Beijing forces blame Liberal Studies course in secondary school for filling young minds with dangerous Western ideas.

HEADLINE: Pro Beijing forces blame Liberal Studies course in secondary school for filling young minds with dangerous Western ideas.


Subversion, that's what. Never forget - liberal means liberty!

57 replies, 5493 views

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Reply Liberal Arts? What the fuck are they good for? (Original post)
reACTIONary Nov 2014 OP
GummyBearz Nov 2014 #1
reACTIONary Nov 2014 #3
yeoman6987 Nov 2014 #35
Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2014 #2
reACTIONary Nov 2014 #8
Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2014 #11
awoke_in_2003 Nov 2014 #31
librechik Nov 2014 #4
reACTIONary Nov 2014 #10
awoke_in_2003 Nov 2014 #32
BrotherIvan Nov 2014 #14
bhikkhu Nov 2014 #42
azmom Nov 2014 #5
HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #6
truebluegreen Nov 2014 #7
jwirr Nov 2014 #9
grahamhgreen Nov 2014 #12
BrotherIvan Nov 2014 #13
Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #15
PasadenaTrudy Nov 2014 #16
Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #23
LittleBlue Nov 2014 #19
Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #24
Sgent Nov 2014 #41
reACTIONary Nov 2014 #20
Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #22
HereSince1628 Nov 2014 #25
reACTIONary Nov 2014 #27
Brigid Nov 2014 #47
reACTIONary Nov 2014 #49
Brigid Nov 2014 #50
RKP5637 Nov 2014 #30
Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2014 #37
Algernon Moncrieff Nov 2014 #39
Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2014 #48
The2ndWheel Nov 2014 #17
reACTIONary Nov 2014 #21
Brigid Nov 2014 #18
llmart Nov 2014 #26
Brigid Nov 2014 #28
llmart Nov 2014 #33
Manifestor_of_Light Nov 2014 #38
paleotn Nov 2014 #29
U4ikLefty Nov 2014 #34
hobbit709 Nov 2014 #36
Droning Predator Nov 2014 #40
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #43
reACTIONary Nov 2014 #55
Odin2005 Nov 2014 #57
DFW Nov 2014 #44
Le Taz Hot Nov 2014 #45
Orsino Nov 2014 #46
hack89 Nov 2014 #51
reACTIONary Nov 2014 #52
hack89 Nov 2014 #53
Zorra Nov 2014 #54
reACTIONary Nov 2014 #56

Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:09 PM

1. I suppose

 

they are good for different things in different situations. For me they were good for boosting the GPA :p

I kid... Just couldnt help myself

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Response to GummyBearz (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:12 PM

3. LOL (nt)

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Response to GummyBearz (Reply #1)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:32 PM

35. Typically Liberal Arts does give you a wide

 

variety of subject knowledge and probably used to be taken seriously. But today with so many students going to college. Liberal Arts majors are typically working at the mall in one of the stores. It is very difficult to get a professional job with a Bachelor of Art Degree in Liberal Arts. However, I am sure there are a few out there that beat the odds. Nothing is absolute.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:12 PM

2. A broad education helps you appreciate lots of different areas of study.

It helps you appreciate the arts if you are not a fine arts major.
It helps you appreciate history if you are not a history major.
It helps you appreciate science if you are not a science major.

It does a lot of things, and unfortunately education is focused on narrower and narrower goals.

I was lucky enough to go to a true liberal arts college, where I earned a B.A. in a natural science. The school was so liberal arts, they did not offer a B.S. in my area. And I got a damn good education.

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Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:27 PM

8. Good on you...

... my Bachalor is soooo liberal arts that it isn't even a BA - it's an AB: artium baccalaureus.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #8)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:37 PM

11. Wow-one of those schools with diplomas in Latin.

Like Harvard and Washington University in Saint Louis.

A Unitarian minister I once knew was quite impressed when I read off the year of his graduation from Harvard which was in Roman numerals. I took Latin in high school.

I'm sure other schools do this too. And they do that in England.

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Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #2)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:10 PM

31. I work in a field...

 

where math and physics rule. I dreaded taking an art history class I had to take, because I never liked "crap" like that. It was one of my favorite classes. No, I am not some art expert or anything now, but at least I can go to the Kimball (in Fort Worth) and have some idea of what the heck is going on.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:15 PM

4. to make rational, well read citizens and members of society--& pass on generational knowledge

not much call for that these days

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Response to librechik (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:30 PM

10. That's right...

...what good are rational, well read citizens to a democracy?

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #10)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:12 PM

32. We found out in the 60's

 

but those "damn hippy kids" asked questions that people didn't like. They tried to affect change. The PTB have been trying to destroy education ever since.

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Response to librechik (Reply #4)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 04:04 PM

14. ^This

Conservatives have been attacking education for quite some time. If one only receives information from the pulpit or the television, then the ideal prole has been created.

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Response to librechik (Reply #4)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 02:30 AM

42. Succinctly put

Going back to college to finish my Liberal Studies degree at 40 was one of best decisions I've made - one is never too old to grow in understanding. It builds the mind and character, and grounds a person in the human experience. Not every goal has to lead to a paycheck to be worthwhile.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:16 PM

5. To teach the youngins

Everything is not all about the mighty dollar.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:24 PM

6. Trustees at college where I worked have declared war on liberal arts

apparently for similar reasoning.

They're on a campaign for 'efficiency' and 'focused marketing' which means curriculum targeting health-professions while reducing general studies requirements with concommitant stripping liberal arts courses and cutting 'programs' allowing removal of tenured liberal faculty.

The most recent victim was an outstandingly good JD/PhD as they move to shut down their pre-law and Political Science program.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:26 PM

7. Reason and critical thinking in my case.

 

Also broad general knowledge.

No wonder they are under attack.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 01:30 PM

9. I think our conservatives think the same thing.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 02:46 PM

12. Music, movies, media, and design are our biggest exports.

 

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Response to grahamhgreen (Reply #12)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 04:02 PM

13. Yes, those jobs are exported everyday.

Kidding, but not kidding. Outsourcing has hit the industry very hard. I can't and won't compete with someone willing to work for $3 an hour. There will come a time when there won't be qualified Americans to work in film & media because there will be no jobs. Just like manufacturing in this country, it is dying very rapidly.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 04:08 PM

15. This acronym - M.A.L.E.

Medicine
Accounting
Law
Engineering


These are the only four options I told my daughter she should consider. Naturally, she is rebelling.

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 04:17 PM

16. Can't blame her n/t

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Response to PasadenaTrudy (Reply #16)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:36 PM

23. My realtor in Florida has 3 kids

One is a doctor, one is a dentist, and the other went into law.

I don't think that's too much for a parent to ask. But my daughter? Oh no.....she wants to go into gender studies. Lotta money in that racket.

(in fairness, she could do that as an undergrad, and still end up in medicine or law post-grad).

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 04:39 PM

19. She should listen to you

 

Spot on. Never thought of that acronym.

For her information, there are plenty of women in accounting. Can't recommend it if she plans on having a family, though.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #19)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:37 PM

24. In seriousness, she'll do fine in whatever she puts her mind to

I just wish that something would lead her to be a well-paid hedge fund manager.

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Response to LittleBlue (Reply #19)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 02:11 AM

41. While I wouldn't recommend

public accounting for a big 4 firm to anyone who wants a family, I find the opposite to be true in general. Smaller / regional firms and corporate or non-public accounting jobs maybe one of the easiest to raise a family with.

Compared to medicine (of any sort), law, and much (not all) of engineering you have flexible hours, easy to take off (when not in tax season) and a generally fairly good quality of life.

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #15)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:23 PM

20. My Acronym is STEM...

Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math. I have three degrees and one certificate. One is Liberal Arts, the others are STEM. The BA is the one that has been most significant for my life. But the others have probably been more significant for my income.

Its a bigger investment, and a longer term strugle, but a liberal arts degree followed by a terminal professional degree can be a winning combination.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:32 PM

22. Absolutely

A 2x major in a STEM major and a liberal art can definitely be a winner.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #20)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:38 PM

25. Mathematics, at least arithmetic and geometry are 2 of the 7 classic liberal arts

Last edited Sun Nov 23, 2014, 08:59 PM - Edit history (1)

If you include formal logic...which leads to things like Boolean algebra and computer function, 3 of the 7 classical liberal arts are mathematics.


check out the Trivium and Quadrivium.

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #25)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:48 PM

27. +100 !!! ln my case...

...my experience with proving theorems in geometry and with a class in formal logic really sharpened my interest in philosophy which my degree is in.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #27)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 02:05 PM

47. For you:



I couldn't resist.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #47)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 08:55 PM

49. LOL!! Socrates would die....

....laughing!!! I've used the phrase "stand up philosopher" before - I didn't realize it had such a distinguished etymology!

Thanks for posting!

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #49)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 10:15 PM

50. You're welcome.



"Did you bullshit this week?"
"Did you try to bullshit this week?"

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Response to HereSince1628 (Reply #25)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 10:08 PM

30. K&R !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! n/t

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #15)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 12:43 AM

37. A lot of lawyers are not making much money.

It's a myth that if you get an MBA or a JD you are guaranteed a job.

I myself earned a J.D. at night school almost 30 years ago and it never improved my job prospects. Couldn't even get a job as a paralegal. I was a legal secretary (I can type faster than anyone I know) and a court reporter for many years.

Our society throws away educated people, especially baby boomers, because we're too old and too expensive to pay. If our society didn't throw away baby boomers, I would be training trial lawyers. Because I've seen hundreds of trials and thousands of hearings as a court reporter.

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Response to Manifestor_of_Light (Reply #37)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 01:34 AM

39. I know several people who went to law school who do quite well; however....

..none of them practice law. One is a high-level official for a major university; one recently retired from a lobbying position; one is currently a consultant and missionary after having retired from the Christian publishing business.

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Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Reply #39)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 03:44 PM

48. Law school is a good broad education for any kind of business.

My dad was an attorney who went to law school at night on the GI Bill. He did general civil practice. He told me, "Usually when you go to grad school, your field gets narrower and narrower; when you go to law school you get a broad education that equips you to do a lot of things besides practice law." He was right. It makes you aware of things like taxes and contracts and business licenses and so forth.

He liked to start 501(c)(3) nonprofits for fun.

Unfortunately, when I was in law school they assumed everyone was going to practice law, which is not the case. They should have pointed out some other fields it would be useful in.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 04:26 PM

17. Everyone likes subversion

Until they're the one being subverted.

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Response to The2ndWheel (Reply #17)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:24 PM

21. Subversion for the hell of it (nt)

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 04:32 PM

18. A liberal arts education makes you dangerous.

It teaches you to think critically, and gives you a broader frame of reference to enable you to do it. You learn to ask questions. A population full of individuals like that is much more difficult to control.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:41 PM

26. Terrific post!

I graduated from a liberal arts college and yes, my diploma is in Latin, but I took Latin in high school and can actually translate it.

Critical thinkers are in short supply in our country these days. But hey, f u r able 2 txt, ur OK.

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Response to llmart (Reply #26)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:50 PM

28. I was an English major.

I could be a real pain in the tukas around here if I wanted to be.

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Response to Brigid (Reply #28)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:11 PM

33. LOL....

You know, many people think grammar and proper spelling and punctuation are not important.

You're just an "intellectual elistist"

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Response to Brigid (Reply #28)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 12:49 AM

38. I wasn't an English major

And I get bent out of shape at the abuse of the English language, grammar and spelling and sentence construction, going on these days.

I call it "The Verbification of America".

It started with "parenting". Now it's "tasked"given a task) and "helmed"directed a movie) and "lensed"was the cinematographer on a movie). Furthermore, "grow the economy" and the adverb shortage get me.

I was in spelling bees in junior high and took 2 years of Latin in high school.
I've been told by several well-educated people (people with a master's degree or a doctorate) that I have a bigger vocabulary than anyone they've ever seen.

My husband first pointed this out many years ago when I used the word "egregious".

Brigid, somebody has to be a pain in the tokus, or tuchis, or tush or however you want to spell it. Where would we be without all those useful Yiddish words?

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Response to Brigid (Reply #18)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 09:58 PM

29. Well said. (nt)

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:12 PM

34. Isn't that a song by Edwin Starr? nt

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sat Nov 22, 2014, 11:33 PM

36. The 2012 GOP platform here in TX was against teaching critical thinking in the schools.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 01:43 AM

40. HAHA!

 

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 05:52 AM

43. This is why the PTB push the STEM circlejerk so hard.

I have not seen a STEM-jerker who isn't a Libertarian asshole.

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Response to Odin2005 (Reply #43)

Mon Nov 24, 2014, 09:41 PM

55. I have a degree in Philosphy...

...from the University of Chicago. I also have two degrees in STEM related fields. I work for a University Affiiliated Research Center. You might say that I'm a STEM- jerker. I work with folks (men and women, and of a multitude of different races, creeds, and narional origins) who all would qualify as STEM-jerkers. Our institution encourages us to be STEM-jerkers by sponsoring STEM programs that provide paid internships at the post secondary level, high school internships, and mentoring at the middle school level. All this is accomplished by volunteer STEM-jerkers, off the clock and on their own time. For the good of our fellow citizens, our country and for the benifit of human kind.

Our latest initiative is a chapter of the Girls Who Code club.

I am proud to be a STEM-jerker and to count so many STEM -jerkers as friends and professional colleagues. Just as proud as I am to be a blow-hard, bullshiter, stand up philosopher.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #55)

Tue Nov 25, 2014, 12:26 AM

57. By "STEM-jerker" I mean people who shit on the Humanities...

...and call liberal-arts degrees useless, sometimes even dismissing "soft" sciences like sociology and psychology as useless. The fact that you have a Philosophy degree means you are NOT a STEM-jerker.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 06:10 AM

44. My university chided me, telling me "we are not running a school for tour guides"

Meanwhile, they tout their business school (Wharton) and churn out Wall Street types, lawyers and doctors.

Well, I agree we need the doctors, but the Wharton kids were mostly robots, even back then (going back 40 years now). Only ONE professor there had a personality. He had long hair and introduced himself saying, "my name is Bill Whitney. I am your professor. That is my job, not my name. My name is Bill, not Professor, so please call me Bill, and not Professor." The rest of them were suit-and-tie Republicans. As our course requirements included 3 semesters of social sciences, I took one semester in Economics, and was lucky enough to get Bill. I also saw enough of Wharton to keep my distance for the rest of my college days.

Now, I'm sure plenty of the Wharton kids went on to become zillionaires, but I'll bet plenty of them burned out, checked out, or just plain tuned out, too.

They keep hitting on me for alumni contributions. I keep telling them to hit on their Wharton grads. Me, I'm just a tour guide with a BA in the liberal arts (well, OK, I'm not a tour guide, but since that was their expectation for me, I contribute accordingly, i.e. not at all).

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 07:06 AM

45. "Hexes and Spells"

There's a place in "The Addams Family" in which Morticia goes to find a job. They ask her if she has any degrees and she says, "Yes, Hexes and Spells." The job counselor thinks for a few seconds and writes down, "Liberal Arts." So whenever anyone asks me what my degree is in I tell them Hexes and Spells.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 09:13 AM

46. Once upon a time, liberal arts education was for the idle rich.

In that context, liberal connoted elitism, as in "the only bastards that are actually free."

Educational systems that don't teach critical thinking have everything to fear from outside ideas.

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Response to reACTIONary (Original post)

Sun Nov 23, 2014, 10:45 PM

51. Baristas that can make intelligent conversation? Nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #51)

Mon Nov 24, 2014, 08:53 PM

52. Do baristas...

...vote? Our democracy needs baristas that can make intelligent decisions.

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Response to reACTIONary (Reply #52)

Mon Nov 24, 2014, 09:07 PM

53. I would hope so. Nt

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Response to hack89 (Reply #51)

Mon Nov 24, 2014, 09:32 PM

54. Derp. "a third of Fortune 500 CEOs have liberal arts degrees, including

American Express CEO Ken Chenault (history major at Bowdoin), JPMorgan Chase CEO James Dimon (psychology and economics major at Tufts), CNN and TBS Founder Ted Turner (classics major at Brown), Proctor & Gamble CEO A.G. Lafley (history and French major at Hamilton) and CBS CEO LeslieMoonves (Spanish major at Bucknell).
snip--
And contrary to persistent stereotypes, liberal arts skills can be lucrative. A 2014 study by the Association of American Colleges and Universities and the National Center for Higher Education Management Systems found that liberal arts majors earn more than most professional majors at their peak earnings ages.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/09/05/employees-who-stand-out/

I was a Liberal Arts/History Major, and the former Executive Director of a successful small non-profit corporation.

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Response to Zorra (Reply #54)

Mon Nov 24, 2014, 09:44 PM

56. Rock On!!! ( nt)

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