If you take the Ferguson cops and DA side, don't ever complain about the NSA or Snowden ever again.

[Yavin4]

There are a lot of Libertarians out there screaming about government intrusion in our lives. They howled and screamed when they learned that the government has access to their emails. Yet, these same folks are awfully fucking quiet over this Ferguson murder.

An agent of the government took the life of an unarmed, innocent man, and the assailant was never charged. Never had to face trial. This means that the government can kill innocent people and never have to face the people.

So, if you take the side of the Ferguson cops and DA, then don't ever complain again about the govt intruding into your personal life. Your logic is inconsistent if you say that it's okay for that same government to kill an unarmed civilian.

[Blue_Tires]

1. +1

Last edited Wed Nov 26, 2014, 07:46 PM - Edit history (1)

I've seen a whole lot of "libertarians" in my time become indifferent at best and authoritarian at worst when it comes to black folks trying to stand up for their civil fuckin' liberties...

One of the main reasons I take such a jaundiced view of the small-'L" crowd...

[msanthrope]

2. Ye shall know them by their OPs and posts. nt

[sheshe2]

13. Yes we will.

I believe there have been a few already.

[bettyellen]

39. you got that right- the flip tone of some OPs was telling.

[Number23]

47. Ain't THAT the every loving truth

I am so glad that this person made this OP. Because it is sure as shit something that the few remaining black DU posters have noted over and over and over again in private notes.

[BlueCaliDem]

52. + 1000! eom

[truedelphi]

3. This same crowd of anti-government types also claimed that

Trayvon Martin was planning on taking the contents of his pockets, and mixing that can of Arizona tea and Skittles together and it created some kind of super potent drug!

And that was one thing that set them off into a full enraged and hostile state - why did anyone who was planning on getting hopped up on a drug made from combining Skittles and Arizona Tea deserve to live!

They had pages and pages of these denouncements - death to Trayvon Martin and any African Americans buying Skittles and AZ Tea!

I have written fiction, but even I could never make up shit like this!
Government revolutionaires terrified of black teen agers who shop at Seven Eleven and occasionally wash down candy with AZ Tea!

Anyway in moments of sheer boredom, I too have tired mixing that stuff together and coming up with some type of super amazing drug, but so far, it hasn't happened. (Other than occasionally getting the mixture so that it fizzed and went onto the carpet in sort of a soda/candy bomb. If I dare use the word "bomb" on a site that might have the NSA paying attention!)

[meow2u3]

4. (White) libertarians only scream about government intrusion in THEIR lives

They have no qualms about government intrusion in the lives of women and/or minorities.

[Number23]

48. NAILED IT

[1StrongBlackMan]

5. Okay, you "opened the suit" ...

So, if you take the side of the Ferguson cops and DA, then don't ever complain again about the govt intruding into your personal life.

I have been thinking the same thing, but refrained from posting. However, I go 18,000 steps farther ...

So, if you take the side of CAN REMAIN/FIND YOURSELF SILENT ON the Ferguson cops and DA, OR CAN ONLY COMMENT ON HOW IT RELATES TO YOU, PERSONALLY ... I.E., "IF THEY CAN DO IT TO THEM, THEY CAN DO IT TO ME/US", then don't ever complain again about the govt intruding into your personal life.

DU ... are you listening?

[pnwmom]

12. And they support private police and the corporate takeover of our government.

But they don't want a democratic government in which ordinary citizens have a strong voice -- not just the powerful and wealthy.

[marym625]

24. sounds like I missed some stuff

While away. If you're that angry, probably a good thing I did.

I will watch for your post.

[1StrongBlackMan]

28. You haven't missed a single thing ...

the DU demographic of which the OP speaks has been, either absent, or are attempting to make it all about them ... as expected.

I'm not angry; my opinion has been validated.

[marym625]

30. ah! Thanks. n/t

[Number23]

50. They have been making it all about them. And I was glad to see some folks call them out on their

shit too. Their "cache" around here is plummeting fast but as usual they are the last to know.

Either silent, totally denying the obviously racist element to all of this, using the issue as a cudgel to beat Obama/Holder or somehow, making it all about them. And they make me sick to my stomach.

So glad this OP was made. If it was one of us that said this same thing, we'd have half of this forum on our asses and this place is not worth the trouble.

[WillyT]

6. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said !!! - K & R !!! - Or JFK CTs...

How many notes did the Dallas polce take... ZERO.

[Fumesucker]

7. To my mind the John Crawford killing was even more egregious than the Brown killing

There wasn't even a hint that Crawford had done anything in any way wrong when he was shot by police in a Walmart while talking on the phone and holding a piece of Walmart merchandise.

And the whole thing was caught on video.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/30/opinion/williams-crawford-walmart-killing/

[TexasMommaWithAHat]

45. That was awful

I hope the guy who called in that phony report got the book thrown at him, too.

[arcane1]

8. They're only "jack-booted government thugs" when they're mean to white people n/t

[rhett o rick]

9. By definition Libertarians logic is inconsistent. Just sayin' nm

[The Traveler]

10. Agree ... but you make a false attribution

Sure, there are Libertarians who oppose the NSA and support Snowden. Said opposition and support is neither required of nor unique to Libertarians. Indeed, many hard core progressives and lefties oppose the NSA and support Snowden. I am merely one of them.

So while your statement is true, it suggests a false attribution. You attribute opposition to the national security state to Libertarianism.

That being said, I don't see how you can coherently oppose the security state while giving cover to extra-judicial street executions of the sort becoming far too common in this country and thus agree with your post, with the exception noted above.

Trav

[woo me with science]

11. You will know the corporate Third Way by their refusal to demand real change here.

We need an end to the militarization of our police, which is federally driven. We need real accountability, including national databases of police violence and relentless DOJ attention to police abuses.

Yet when the CRITICAL role of purchased, corporate politicians in the creation of this police state America is becoming is mentioned, the Third Way circles the wagons and refuses to demand accountability from our politicians. No, we are to cheer pretty speeches instead, even though they come with no intent for real change. The militarization continues.

Exactly what we have come to expect from our corporate government when it comes to outrages like this.

We get cynical, pretty speeches and cheering propaganda voices, and nothing more.

Nothing gets better anymore. No one is ever serious about actual change for the better.

In fact, the corporate politicians making pretty speeches are relentlessly making things worse:




____________________________________________________________________________

The entire Democratic leadership opposed Grayson amendment to stop arming cops with DOD weapons
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10025390424

Police Militarization (including the Obama administration's role)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/06/aclu-police-militarization-swat_n_2813334.html

It's almost certain that if the police agencies cooperate, the ACLU will find that the militarization trend has accelerated since Kraska's studies more than a decade ago. All of the policies, incentives and funding mechanisms that were driving the trend then are still in effect now. And most of them have grown in size and scope.

The George W. Bush administration actually began scaling down the Byrne and COPS programs in the early 2000s, part of a general strategy of leaving law enforcement to states and localities. But the Obama administration has since resurrected both programs. The Byrne program got a $2 billion surge in funding as part of the 2009 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act, by far the largest budget in the program's 25-year history. Obama also gave the COPS program $1.55 billion that same year, a 250 percent increase over its 2008 budget, and again the largest budget in the program's history. Vice President Joe Biden had championed both programs during his time in the Senate.

The Pentagon's 1033 program has also exploded under Obama. In the program's monthly newsletter (Motto: "From Warfighter to Crimefighter&quot , its director announced in October 2011 that his office had given away a record $500 million in military gear in fiscal year 2011, which he noted, "passes the previous mark by several hundred million dollars." He added, "I believe we can exceed that in FY 12.”

Then there are the Department of Homeland Security's anti-terrorism grants. The Center for Investigative Reporting found in a 2011 investigation that since 2001, DHS has given out more than $34 billion in grants to police departments across the country, many of which have been used to purchase military-grade guns, tanks, armor, and armored personnel carriers. The grants have gone to such unlikely terrorism targets as Fargo, N.D.; Canyon County, Idaho; and Tuscaloosa, Ala.

It's united oligarchy, not divided democracy. And it's united oligarchy with a relentless propaganda machine to try to obscure the truth.

[20score]

14. Well said.

[marym625]

21. my invitation is still open

Anytime, anywhere.

[JonLP24]

38. Bingo

While I'll call out corruption as well as noble cause corruption, misconduct -- status quo politicians are to blame.

[Bobbie Jo]

41. Well gee, that's interesting

but do you have any thoughts about what happened to Michael Brown and the people of Ferguson? (that don't include a wall of self-referential blue links) You know, your own thoughts??

Perhaps I missed it in the midst of all that copy/paste, lather, rinse, repeat.....

[malaise]

51. +1,000

[ecstatic]

15. I've noticed that discrepancy for quite some time.

They don't give two shits about police brutality. They just don't want their porn habits monitored.

[1StrongBlackMan]

20. And to smoke all the weed they want ...

and to have the government fight to give them more income than they currently have, while not giving a shit about anyone other than themselves ... unless it can be framed as a concern for someone else.

[JonLP24]

37. There is a whole bunch of shit that I care about that doesn't personally effect me

It bothers the department of defense subcontracts slave labor, I favor ending the drug war (and if you can't see how militarization & brutality factor into that..), and how can you attribute a motive like that to something that should be widely supported. Giving tax breaks to the wealthy while simultaneously cutting the safety net has disastrous effects.

Aside from the first one the other two play a part in this sort of policing.

I also support giving detainees the right to use habaes corpus to challenge their detention. Why should I care? I'm favor of more 4th amendment protections across the board, not less.

[20score]

16. To be consistent and against injustice in all its forms,

Last edited Wed Nov 26, 2014, 01:31 AM - Edit history (1)

one would need to be against murder by officers of the law, be outraged at those charged with oversight of those officers - who almost never hold them to account - and be against government crimes on a larger scale. War, economic theft in third world countries, and hunger of millions in a rich country, plus the abuses inherent in a massive spy apparatus turned on its own citizens.

That said, anyone who is okay with murder and abuse, happening daily in our streets by those trusted to 'serve and protect' sicken me. No matter what their label.

[marym625]

22. Well said

I can't understand how anyone can think this is okay by any stretch of the imagination. Just like the OP, some on this thread and you have said, in so many words, you can't be OK with an injustice just because it suits you.

[malokvale77]

17. I could add...

don't cry when they come for you. They will.

[1StrongBlackMan]

18. Posted to now ...

while I consider going on blast on a particularly B.S post.

As I posted earlier, I completely agree with your post; but there is a subsequent post that is so full of shit I can't stand it. Maybe, I will post in the morning ... after I calm down.

[WillyT]

19. I Will Be Kicking This For The Next Two Or Three Weeks... You ???

DULink: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=post&forum=1002&pid=5871292

[marym625]

23. a go to fuck you

Of sorts, Three-Way-Willy?

[WillyT]

25. Hi... I Have No Idea What That Means...

Cold you smooth it out ???

:shrug

[marym625]

26. I can smooth it out

Hot or cold. However you would like.

I was just about to edit it but you replied too quickly.

Go to, "fuck you." As in you'll be using it as a "fuck you" for people who think one injustice, say NSA spying is okay, but think another injustice, maybe a cop getting away with murder isn't okay.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

27. This is why many of us people of color here on DU go after others who slam Obama over NSA shit

That is of little consequence when many of us are confronting this racist shit right in front of our faces every single day. We get asked stupid shit like, "why aren't you concerned about spying"? Why am I not concerned about spying? Really? I'm fucking being profiled every single fucking day! Wake up!! That NSA, spying shit means nothing to me as a black woman!! NOTHING!!!! This shit happens to me every fucking damn day!!!

ETA: I'm fucking pissed off. Angry. Sad. Depressed. Pissed!

I DO NOT SPEAK FOR ALL PEOPLE OF COLOR.

This is just from my vantage point.

But DAMMIT!!!!

[ProSense]

29. Well said.

Same shit, different day. This episode leaves me speechless. Thanks for your statement.

Kick!

[Thinkingabout]

46. Glad to see you, I miss your informative post, hope to see more.

[Bobbie Jo]

34. Then you have those

who are all over NSA, Corporate Dems, Third Way!!11 - day in, day out....who can't be bothered to comment (read, give a rat's ass) on the very real racial issues that people in this country fight every single day.

Sadly, if they do bother to comment at all, it's all about "class" or some other dismissive nonsense.

Their silence regarding Michael Brown sticks out like a sore thumb, and hasn't gone unnoticed.

Look no further than this very thread....

[Number23]

53. Oh, they comment all right. But only so far as they can blame the Third Way/Obama/Holder etc.

as though this type of shit hasn't been going on since the first boats from Europe landed on the backs of the indigenous population 400 years ago.

Look no further than this very thread....

Like clockwork. And sounding more repetitive and unhinged by the day.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

57. clockwork indeed....

[Hissyspit]

44. Hunh? It's ALL the Constitution.

It's ALL of consequence.

[BumRushDaShow]

31. +bazillion

[avebury]

32. Agreed! nt

[DesMoinesDem]

33. Not any of the libertarians I've heard from.

They're pissed about the government spying on them and the out of control 'police state' that kills with immunity. I'm sure you'll find the same thing at any libertarian forum. What libertarians are you talking about? Can you provide some examples?

[Avalux]

35. Good post Yavin4. K&R. nt

[JonLP24]

36. How do you feel about the NSA and Snowden?

Libertarians?

WTF? I didn't like it when Bush authorized the illegal spying. You'll see I'm favor of better civil liberties across the board.

[JonLP24]

40. FWIW

http://reason.com/topics/ferguson

The above is a link to a top Libertarian magazine, aside from Ferguson they have a section devoted to stories in police brutality.

I guess I'm a Libertarian when it comes to the 4th amendment.

[TheKentuckian]

42. Fair enough though it seems to me that at least here that it is members of the status quo caucus

and excuse makers for the surveillance state that are most likely to be "waiting for the facts", getting huffy about cop haters, wringing their hands about property damage and potential inconvenience and disruption, and swallowing whatever "authorities" say whole, bones and all.

[seveneyes]

43. Evidence, Testimony and Facts

It could have been handled better than it was, but in the end the facts matter.

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

58. What facts are those?

[malaise]

49. Good OP

Rec

[BlueCaliDem]

54. Excellent OP! K & R. eom

[Number23]

55. Please know that if I could rec this 50 times, I would.

Thank you for pointing this out so clearly and so perfectly.

It is so very telling that the "SNOWDEN IS A GOD" crowd is so utterly quiet on this issue or have been trying their hardest to make this whole damned thing about them.

[BootinUp]

56. Nice post.