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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWill someone please tell Darren Wilson
Nobody in the midst of a life threatening confrontation pauses to ask themselves, "Is it lawful for me to shoot this man?" And gets the response from themselves, "Yes." Officer, you lost me with that lie. I couldn't make myself listen to another word. Stephanoplis kept a straight face through your Zimmermanesk ramblings and he should get an Emmy for it.

Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)and I had him down there with Zimmerman.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)Hardly ... GS was there as a "journalist" ... and his soft-ball questions,
while keeping a straight face at the laughable answers was an insult to
his professed profession.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)and to call any of these fluffed and puffed political hacks turned TV talk show personalities journalists is laughable.
global1
(26,095 posts)must feel having him interviewed and talking about the incident as he did. This is the guy that killed my kid and he is being given a forum to talk about it. It is despicable. And it is also despicable for a network to give this guy the forum to do that as well.
bluesbassman
(20,250 posts)That they would pay him to spew his fabricated, rehearsed, and bullshit story sickens me.
Delphinus
(12,208 posts)I was appalled when I received a text message from my local ABC news station to be sure and tune in.
Dark n Stormy Knight
(10,349 posts)this situation without shooting this man?" That's what I'd like to know. He certainly should have, as Recursion explained very well in this post.
dballance
(5,756 posts)That was certainly the point at which he made it clear he was lying and had spent the last 100 days or so in consultation with his attorneys to come up with that answer.
ON EDIT:
Even if one is a law enforcement officer I can't believe that in a time of such supposed stress about being killed that one would have time to consider the legality of one's actions. One would simply, reflexively defend one's self. If he'd said that he'd be a lot more believable.
I call total and utter BS!
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)As a police officer during your training you are extensively put through scenarios testing your judgement under stress- including "shoot/don't shoot" tests.
"Shoot/don't shoot" drills are done to make some get used to asking that exact same question. Because if you choose to shoot, you have to assume the worst case scenario will result- death. So when asking "am I justified to shoot" you are asking "am I justified in using deadly force".
It's done and it's drilled into your head that you are accountable to every decision and you had better be justified in making it, but you better make it without hesitation so that you take too long and you or a bystander gets hurt or killed.
I've been there. Every time my taser came out, the thought process going there was "is this the best tool, am I using it in a way that doesn't increase risk to me and the others involved, is there legal justification for this level of force." Every time my gun came out it was the same thought process- one standard for pulling the gun out, another for actually pulling the trigger.
The entire time you are in an encounter like that as an officer your mind is a balance of "what do I need to do, what can I do under the law"
I would love to take a bunch of you into a training facility and give you pistol with simunitions and put you into high-stress scenarios to show you just what it is like and give you some perspective.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)I'll be a lot more comfortable judging that once I've reviewed if all.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Rushing to judgement does.
Not having as much information as I possibly can does.
I'm sure if your doctor said he wanted to review the latest studies before prescribing a new medication you would be thankful he didn't give you something based on less info than he could have utilized.
We should all strive to be as informed as possible.
Scuba
(53,475 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)Jumping to conclusions, especially if they fit one's current understanding of the truth (regardless of the accuracy of that understanding), is fraught with errors.
There is plenty of research supporting the idea that waiting as long as you can before making a decision is the best way to get to the most advantageous outcome. Sort of like waiting for the autopsy before saying that Brown was shot in the back which was an early story.
Response to mythology (Reply #74)
Rex This message was self-deleted by its author.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)
Rex
(65,616 posts)Seriously, the desperation here to defend Wilson gets so pathetic at times, you have to wonder if these are just bored kids playing with dads PC and internet connection.
treestar
(82,383 posts)The reason he claims he was in danger was his own gun.
Is there training about using the gun that involves unarmed people taking it from you? This claim keeps coming up as the unarmed appear to be so brazen.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)The answer is of course.
Blaming the gun for Brown trying to take it? That's going a long way to find any way to blame anyone but Brown for that.
treestar
(82,383 posts)is in danger from people outside the car and we are supposed to believe that.
Zimmerman had a far better story.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Because I would be more than happy to send you as many examples of that happening as you wish.
bluesbassman
(20,250 posts)Or did Brown climb in through the window, reach down between the seat and center console, unhook the strap, and try to take Wilson's gun? The answer is he didn't and Wilson had his gun out to display what a badass cop he was long before he ever "asked" himself whether it was legal to shoot an unarmed man. That whole story of his is bullshit and you should be ashamed of yourself for defending it.
madashelltoo
(1,804 posts)In a life or death situation no one, law enforcement or military, is running a laundry list tape on legality. Survival takes precedence over all of it.
Ykcutnek
(1,305 posts)The encounter was over. Wilson should have given up.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)What color is the sky in yor world?
If a person just committed a violent felony, such as assaulting a police officer, officers have a duty to pursue that person and take them into custody. Not "give up" and let them roam free afterwords.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)is quite simple. Why exit the car?
If MB was suck a hulk, such a demon... and you were sooooooooooo afraid, yet had (at least initially) the safety of the police car with backup en route, why the hell would you exit the vehicle to pursue this massive threat on foot? Especially since he'd already been wounded and was unarmed, why get out of the damn car!!!!
Wilson's supposedly a trained police officer, but he offers the same bullshit we heard from the untrained Zimmermann. Both were in vehicles, yet they were so fearful of the hooded, hulking black male, they got out of the protective shell offered by the vehicle. Really??????? It makes no damn sense.
Moreover, WTF led to the melee in/at the car? All reports start with Brown walking down the street and Wilson coming upon him and barking orders for him to get out of the street. I can likely imagine just how he said it, too. No one has yet explained what happened next. It makes no sense for MB to simply walk up to the cop car. Instead, it makes more likely sense that Wilson pulled along side Brown who was not immediately compliant to his ORDER (his fucking authority) and threatened to make him get out of the street, perhaps brandishing his gun. Then MB, in self defense, grabbed at it, and was shot, leaving his blood in the car and GSW residue on his hand(s). That's when MB fled and Wilson, the bully who couldn't stand the affront to his ego and his authority, literally hunted him down with an ultimate coup de grace kill shot to the top of the frigging head.
Good for you and all your training, but Wilson's story reeks; and if you're one of the good cops, you should recognize that.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Because it's exactly what a cops job is!
Even though risky, it was his job.
I can't belive you find fault with Wilson for getting out of his car and pursuing the person who committed a felony by assaulting him- when that was his job- instead of faulting the person who first assaulted him, then further broke the law fleeing.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)Did you read my post completely. Here, try again:
WTF led to the melee in/at the car? All reports start with Brown walking down the street and Wilson coming upon him and barking orders for him to get out of the street. I can likely imagine just how he said it, too. No one has yet explained what happened next. It makes no sense for MB to simply walk up to the cop car. Instead, it makes more likely sense that Wilson pulled along side Brown who was not immediately compliant to his ORDER (his fucking authority) and threatened to make him get out of the street, perhaps brandishing his gun. Then MB, in self defense, grabbed at it, and was shot, leaving his blood in the car and GSW residue on his hand(s). That's when MB fled and Wilson, the bully who couldn't stand the affront to his ego and his authority, literally hunted him down with an ultimate coup de grace kill shot to the top of the frigging head.
Wilson started this shit and you know, you're just towing the blue line. A cop is always right, of course. Ask Abner Louima, he's one of the few who didn't die! When someone (especially a black male) dares defend himself against cop aggression, it's assault. It justifies a a hale of gunfire and in Michael Brown's case, a volley of 12 shots.
Spare me I have come to fear cops more than crooks. Cops escalate situations, cause more harm and injure and kill people with impunity.
Exhibit A and B: treatment of peaceful Occupy Wall Street protestors and peaceful Ferguson protestors along with the media covering them back in August. Yet look how you guys back off from the Cliven Bundys of this nation
R B Garr
(17,603 posts)That's what every expert on this case has said, and that's what they've faulted Wilson for not doing. It's been all over the news on many channels. Then there's you. Hmmmm.
Rex
(65,616 posts)As can be seen here.
R B Garr
(17,603 posts)
R B Garr
(17,603 posts)With his blown-out eye socket and other injuries, how was he in any condition for a foot chase. So he should have called for back-up in any of those events.
But, Oh. Wait. He wasn't injured. He still should have called for back-up.
Pfffffffffft.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)You are dealing with a lot of weapons grade ignorance and vitriol like a champ. A lot of DU has concocted an impervious barrier against non-echo-chamber thoughts and you are doing a great job smashing it.
It's a sisyphean feat, but keep it up.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)R B Garr
(17,603 posts)at unarmed people you stop for jaywalking. There is no other way.
"Non-echo-chamber thoughts" must be the secret handshake that let's you in the Good Ol' Boys Network. We all know what that is.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)... and on Wilson's gun? Inside the driver's side of a police car is an awful strange place to be jaywalking to.
Let's pretend I don't get your innuendo. What Good Ol' Boys Network am I in? You know, since "we all know what that is".
R B Garr
(17,603 posts)Brown? Did he stop Brown because his blood was in his car?
I don't think your questions are serious.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)So, either you are woefully ignorant of the case or being incredibly intellectually dishonest. Which is it?
How do you think MB's blood got in the drivers side of Wilson's car and on his gun? Sure wasn't from jaywalking.
R B Garr
(17,603 posts)I've never said or implied he shot at him for jaywalking. How ridiculous.
LostInAnomie
(14,428 posts)"Yes, because most gun experts recommend firing your weapon 12 times at unarmed people you stop for jaywalking."
What you did was try to be clever/snarky and it didn't work out for you. Instead it just made you look ignorant/dishonest.
R B Garr
(17,603 posts)"You are dealing with a lot of weapons grade ignorance and vitriol like a champ. A lot of DU has concocted an impervious barrier against non-echo-chamber thoughts and you are doing a great job smashing it."
I wrote a sarcastic response to what you wrote. There is no weapons grade ignorance. There are phony arguments about the chain of events that lead to the initial contact between Wilson and Brown, which was jaywalking.
Weapons grade ignorance =
Rex
(65,616 posts)
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Try that and get back to me.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Take any stick, sit in your car with the window down, have somebody come up and start hitting you- and try to use that stick to stop them.
And now add a new twist- put a gun on your hip. Know that in more than 90% of cases where an offocers gun is taken theu end up killed with it. Have that person start trying to take your gun, so you have to focus your effort first on retaining positive control of your gun so at a minimum your right hand must stay firmly on it.
While doing all that use your left hand to grab a baton and get enough swing on it through a car window to have any effect.
Can you? Try and get back to me.
Here is a hint- for a baton to have any effect it has to be swung with pretty good force- that takes room to swing. With a person up against your car window hitting you how will you swing it from inside the car?
B Calm
(28,762 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Describe to me just how you can swing a baton from inside a vehicle and strike a person outside with enough force to make them stop what they are doing- while what they are doing is reaching in and assaulting you.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I sure don't.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)If everyone is saying they can, describe just how it is done.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)I'm talking about the dishonest gymnastics you're using to try to defend a murderer.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)and he is not the only one of these apologists i was just commenting on this yesterday: the mental gymnastics some go through to defend Wilson.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Now people are actually expected to believe you cannot swing in a car. I for one hate it when someone thinks I will believe what the a freeper eats up all day long as the truth.
It's as if someone thinks we don't have critical thinking skills.
trekbiker
(768 posts)and I'm sorry to see a reasoned and rational poster like Lee-Lee running headlong into DU Stupid
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)Someone who clearly knows what they are talking about better than you do is explaining something you don't want to hear to you, and you're responding by desperately attacking them.
DisgustipatedinCA
(12,530 posts)If you're into people spinning unlikely scenarios in order to justify murder, far be it from me to try to dissuade you from that. If you share the view that unarmed black men have tendency to try to steal a cop's gun while the cop is sitting in his car, and for no discernible reason, then you and I aren't going to agree on much. I'm guessing you see loads more people "reaching for their waistbands" than I ever will.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)my truck for the past 30 years. And to think how I risked my life delivering auto parts to the now burned down Auto Zone store in Ferguson, Missouri.
Someone needs to inform the millions of truck drivers out there that Lee-Lee has determined that a billy club under their seat is a useless weapon.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)intent on murdering a poor, scared, armed white police officer. i believe that is his point. otherwise...it probably works fine.
B Calm
(28,762 posts)R B Garr
(17,603 posts)a way that you can't exit your vehicle without physically making contacting with someone who is standing there. That's where the stupidity started in this case. It started with the officer. According to Dorian Johnson, Wilson backed his car up to try and trap them, but he then couldn't exit his vehicle without hitting them with his door. Duh.
So "somebody come up and start hitting you".
B Calm
(28,762 posts)and Brown was so smart...
B Calm
(28,762 posts)is all we're saying.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)and also made Brown dead.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)As I said up-thread: WTF led to the melee in/at the car? All reports start with Brown walking down the street and Wilson coming upon him and barking orders for him to get out of the street. I can likely imagine just how he said it, too. No one has yet explained what happened next. But it makes no sense for MB to simply walk up to the cop car and start a fight. Instead, it makes more likely sense that Wilson pulled along side Brown who was not immediately compliant to his ORDER (his fucking authority) and threatened to make him get out of the street, perhaps by brandishing his gun. Then Brown, in self defense, grabbed at it, and was shot, leaving his blood in the car and GSW residue on his hand(s). That's when Brown fled and Wilson, the bully who couldn't stand the affront to his ego and his authority, got out of the car and literally hunted him down with an ultimate coup de grace kill shot to the top of the frigging head.
Wilson's story reeks; he was the aggressor, he started this shit and made sure that the other side of the story would be silenced!
He concocted a story which to anyone with a functioning neuron makes no sense. If, Brown was such a hulk, such a demon... and he was sooooooooooo afraid, why the hell would he exit the vehicle to pursue this massive threat on foot?
Wilson's supposedly a trained police officer, but he offers the same bullshit we heard from the untrained Zimmermann. Both were in vehicles, yet they were so fearful of the hooded, hulking black male, they got out of the protective shell offered by the vehicle. Really??????? It makes no damn sense.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)if you buy the "hulking demon with superhuman strength" stereotype. how can armed men claim to be so afraid of unarmed teenagers that they have to shoot to kill? absolute bullshit, but it still sells easily in America. and as you mention...why in the fuck did they get out the cars? there is only one logical conclusion.
R B Garr
(17,603 posts)did make perfect sense by explaining how Wilson got in such close proximity to start an altercation so randomly. I can see Brown saying the "don't shoot" line given that Wilson himself was showing his gun and Brown may have instinctively started have reaching in to his car imploring him not to shoot.
I can also see how Brown thought about fleeing after being shot, but then turning around and deciding to give up. All of this, of course, is filtered through Wilson's ego (i.e., authority). Such a travesty.
haele
(14,132 posts)And hit the gas pedal than it does to reach down by your waist band, fiddle with the strap, and clear your weapon so you won't shoot yourself in the leg as you're pulling it up to shoot the person reaching through your window.
Heck, the police constantly advise the public that this it the best tactic to save yourself from a car-jacking whenever there's gang activity, which is much the same scenario that Wilson supposedly found himself in. When someone is coming through the window of your car, hit the gas and get out of danger.
Wilson could pull forward a few dozen yards, stop, call for back-up, then get out and be clear if he wanted to pursue the issue on his own. If not, he had a good description, and there's another warrant that they could hang on someone.
He's also less likely to hit an innocent bystander by using his car rather than his gun.
That is, if things went down the way Officer Wilson says they did. Even if Wilson was telling the truth, he didn't follow basic common sense safety procedures and his impaired (through basic stupidity, roids, anger, fear or whatever) actions directly lead to his pulling the trigger as many times as he did and killing Micheal Brown in this incident.
Criminal Stupidity/Manslaughter at least.
Look, I went through basic police training (military) back in the late 1970's/early 1980's as part of my duty requirements. The first thing they told me was to be proactive rather than reactive. To think, observe, and plan your moves before you engage with someone.
The gun remains holstered until you decided there might be a need to kill someone with it. As my instructor said "You never, ever waive it around like a D**k extender to assert your authority. Some bigger d**k will take it from you before your shorts get stained."
Haele
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)But Wilson was powerless from inside the car without his firearm, which was a totally safe choice at those close quarters.
Don't you understand cop fetishist physics?
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)And the rest of you are talking from a point of ignorant speculation shaded by irrational bigotry against all cops.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)In that case, we should leave all adjudication of police behaviors to a board of other police, since they're the only ones with the proper training to make sense of basic physics and ordinary experience. Also, police are very well known for being totally rational and impartial arbiters of possible misdeeds by other police.
Haha! Just kidding. Police almost pathologically defend even the worst of their cohorts to the bitter end. There are probably still NYPD who think Justin Volpe got a raw deal.
If your "experience" led to authentic judgments, it would sometimes show police to be in the right, and sometimes in the wrong. But it doesn't. It always shows police to be in the right. So, at that point, I'm not really that interested in the relevance of your "experience." It is just a dishonest and lame argumentative trump card for your opinion.
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)It's the same reason I quit bothering to respond to the "why didn't he shoot him in the leg" nonsense from people who have never shot a gun- people are happier when they can invent their own reality instead of listening to people who have done it or going out and actually trying it.
alcibiades_mystery
(36,437 posts)wallow in your blinkered bullshit.
Rest assured that I won't bother responding to it either.
trekbiker
(768 posts)the cognitive dissonance must be painful for you
R B Garr
(17,603 posts)I'm not saying that cops aren't in dangerous situations. Of course they are. But that doesn't justify firing 12 shots at someone when you had other options.
Carolina
(6,960 posts)They cover their crimes and their travesties and maintain that blue line at all costs.
I have come to fear cops more than crooks, and defenses of Wilson like the pathetic ones expressed by Lee-Lee are just one of the reasons why.
Bettie
(18,177 posts)that left not even a mark on him.
OK, he did have a little bit of chafing at the back of his neck and a monster zit getting ready to pop out on his cheek, but no injuries indicating the terrible beating he claimed.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)yet people are still peddling as gospel? same thing with the murderer zimmerman.
Bettie
(18,177 posts)more people than we'd think stand firmly on the side of authoritarianism.
If a cop/wanna-be cop says it, then it must be true.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)i notice the authoritarian tones when they post about "facts" vs. emotion. and of course, "the facts" always favors the cop.
Bettie
(18,177 posts)It is so sad that people who are otherwise quite liberal are so stuck in the mindset that the cop is always in the right.
Many of the same people were on Zimmerman's side too and he wasn't even a cop, just a guy who wanted to pretend he was one.
They also tend to forget one fact: a human being is dead.
They try to explain how the victim was really, really bad and deserved to die, as if summary execution by cop is the penalty for any crime.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)it seems some people need to do some "inner" work to get rid of the grunting demons within.
Bettie
(18,177 posts)that they are actually there to protect and serve us (the people in the communities they work in) instead of only protecting and serving themselves, which appears to be the rule rather than the exception these days.
It seems that not-a-cop people are the enemy these days; we're insurgents to our militarized police force.
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)but the eagerness to swallow whole these fantastical self-serving tales? i am not sure what that is about. i think stereotypes about black men run deep, and are independent of political affiliation. i just posted about my very first encounter with The Police when i was 7. it was during the watts riots, and my family lived nearby. The authorities must have issued some sort of edict, because all of the kids in the neighborhood were called into our houses. And then the cops came...all white cops in cruisers, with shotguns hanging out of the windows. in our area, The Police were an occupying force of white strangers who didn't live anywhere near us. i learned to mistrust and fear The Police. i know others here have different experiences that shape their views...but that was my introduction to The Police. of course that was almost 50 years ago, and i have had good and bad experiences with police since then. but that was MY introduction to The Police. i am sure people who lived in predominantly minority areas...or poor areas have similar experiences.
Bettie
(18,177 posts)My experiences with police have been so different, as a white woman.
It illustrates perfectly how being a suburban white woman gives me a privileged position. I may have my own problems, but I don't have to be afraid of cops in most situations, since I'm generally not going to be seen as a threat.
I can't even begin to imagine how terrifying that must have been for a seven year old.
Police should live in the communities they work in. It would go a long way toward relations in both directions, simply by making cops recognize that the communities they work in are populated by HUMAN BEINGS!
Oh, this makes me so angry. I hope I'm making sense...I'm tired enough that it all seems like word salad at this point!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)thank you for sharing. i know how you feel. i think i am going to take a break for Thanksgiving. Nice chatting with you, Bettie Have a great Thanksgiving.
Rex
(65,616 posts)the accelerator or using the ASP. It is funny watching pretend cops defend this guy to the bitter end. Well, funny and sad at the same time.
jwirr
(39,215 posts)whole segment. I am not going to listen to that ass. He is guilty. I would not be listening to Zimmerman either.
We should not be awarding him.
csziggy
(34,189 posts)Every half hour every "news" channel has run at least part of Wilson's interview. So all day I watched old Law & Order Episodes where I can pretend that cops really do their jobs and the justice system tries to catch the bad guys. It's a fantasy world, but even with the Special Victims Unit, their reality is more pleasant than reality.