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Wed Dec 3, 2014, 11:52 AM

More On the Incident With the Black Man Stopped With Hands in Pockets

CNN just played the 9-1-1 call that reported this man's "supposedly" suspicious behavior. It seems that he was walking outdoors, going back and forth in front of the store at least five or six times, supposedly looking in, and, yes, with his hands in his pockets. (Yeah, it was cold!)

The store is in a black neighborhood, employs mostly blacks, and due to past robberies, employees were nervous about this man, so someone made a 9-1-1 call, which I heard in its entirety on CNN.

How should the police respond to this call? The man was obviously guilty of doing NOTHING WRONG.

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Reply More On the Incident With the Black Man Stopped With Hands in Pockets (Original post)
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 OP
Scuba Dec 2014 #1
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #5
JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #2
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #10
snooper2 Dec 2014 #22
JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #25
randome Dec 2014 #3
msanthrope Dec 2014 #20
Kingofalldems Dec 2014 #4
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #7
JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #11
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #14
JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #28
HappyMe Dec 2014 #21
mythology Dec 2014 #38
JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #8
marym625 Dec 2014 #17
marym625 Dec 2014 #6
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #9
marym625 Dec 2014 #13
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #16
riqster Dec 2014 #35
msanthrope Dec 2014 #19
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #23
marym625 Dec 2014 #26
JustAnotherGen Dec 2014 #27
marym625 Dec 2014 #31
TexasProgresive Dec 2014 #12
marym625 Dec 2014 #33
TexasMommaWithAHat Dec 2014 #36
marym625 Dec 2014 #37
MrScorpio Dec 2014 #15
marym625 Dec 2014 #18
HappyMe Dec 2014 #24
marym625 Dec 2014 #30
still_one Dec 2014 #29
yellowcanine Dec 2014 #32
hughee99 Dec 2014 #34
Lee-Lee Dec 2014 #39
Malraiders Dec 2014 #40

Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 11:56 AM

1. How did they respond? What's your take on how they responded?

 

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Response to Scuba (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:08 PM

5. Seeing the whole clip and not just a partial clip

I think the officer could have handled it better, but I don't think he handled it badly, either.

That store has apparently been robbed 7 times.

What I do think is that it is difficult to protect and respond in instances like this without appearing to be racially profiling.

Damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

ETA - Link to unedited video in post #6.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:02 PM

2. How would a Texas LEO have handled that?

His name is Mr. Brandon Mckean and the incident took placed in Pontiac MI.


How do you think the police should respond to this call?

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:13 PM

10. Have no idea

nt

I'm sure there are plenty of instances of police mishandling of the situation and outright brutality.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:35 PM

22. how about LAPD? or Portland LEO?

 



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Response to snooper2 (Reply #22)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:44 PM

25. n/t

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:06 PM

3. By stopping by, engaging the citizen in conversation, then moving on.

 

Which is what appears to have occurred.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Precision and concision. That's the game.[/center][/font][hr]

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Response to randome (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:32 PM

20. Exactly. nt

 

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:07 PM

4. I think get what you are saying.

But why don't you come right out with it instead of beating around the bush?

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:10 PM

7. I am not beating around the bush

I am not black, and I have not been stopped like this.

How should these incidents be handled? What can be done to make things better?

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:19 PM

11. A good start would be forcing police officers

To wear body cameras. All of them.

They must be on at all times while in uniform or on duty.

Watch misconduct drop drastically. First time you have it off - verbal warning with a mark on your record. Second time - in writing and on the record with a month's suspension without pay. Third - you are fired.

Federal law coming from Fed tax dollars - every cop in the country gets the exact same camera.

We can't trust them - so they need to be watched at all times.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:28 PM

14. Agree with that.

I happen to believe that many officers can be trusted, but we don't know which ones we can trust.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #14)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:48 PM

28. As you said upthread - you aren't black

From where I sit? I don't trust them. So I want them watched and reminded they work for us. We pay their salaries. We have a right to know every single action they take while on the dole.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #11)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:34 PM

21. Exactly.

Every cop wears a camera, no exceptions.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:46 PM

38. I'm white and was questioned for about 20 minutes by cops for a similar issue

 

It was annoying and stupid, but in my experience most dealings with cops are. I was early to look at an apartment and my knee stiffens up if I sit for too long so I paced back and forth while waiting for the landlord to get there (he was late) and in that time somebody called the cops on me for suspicious loitering. The cops decided I was obviously a drug dealer to which I pointed out that I must be a bad one as I had less than $20 in my wallet and no drugs on me. They searched me, questioned me repeatedly and were rather disgruntled when I was finally let go on my way and suggested that after such a strenuous, but useless, exertion, they should consider making a stop at the donut shop up the street so as to not harass any other innocent people.

Oddly enough, I didn't take the apartment.

In that situation, I didn't need to be such an ass and the cops should probably notice that I had headphones on and not approached from two angles to cut me off while getting pissy that I didn't hear them over my headphones and jerking away when a seemingly random guy not in uniform grabbed for me.

But I look at it similarly to how when I bike in the winter and stop at a store. I make sure I take my face mask off before entering the store or even the doorway so there's not confusion. Or if I need directions at night, being a big bulky guy, I generally don't ask women who are by themselves since I know I can come across as physically imposing, or if I do ask, I make sure I'm standing in a well lit area and my hands are visible and stay several paces away. I recognize that even though I know I'm not a threat, others don't have that same knowledge.

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Response to Kingofalldems (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:10 PM

8. I don't understand what she is saying . . .

I think it's great the Mr. McKean recorded this incident. I think every black man in America should always record the police unless they are pointing a gun at your head.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #8)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:30 PM

17. even then

I'm sure you saw the exchange where the guy refused to get on the ground, while multiple cops had guns pointed at him. Epic bravery!

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:10 PM

6. Having watched the guy walking home

Stop was unnecessary. I have looked and can't find the recording of the 911 call, including CNN. Do you have a kink?

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Response to marym625 (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:11 PM

9. No, I don't have a "kink"



It was just on a few minutes ago.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:28 PM

13. That's too bad

Kinks can be fun!

Oy! Freudian slip or bad typo?

LOL!
Well they don't have it up yet. Thanks

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Response to marym625 (Reply #13)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:29 PM

16. See link in post 6

Your Freudian slip did give me a good laugh!

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #9)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:17 PM

35. "Kink is using a feather: perversion is using the entire chicken."

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Response to marym625 (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:32 PM

19. Match.com is a more appropriate venue for that question!

 

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:36 PM

23. hehe

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:44 PM

26. I won't comment

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Response to msanthrope (Reply #19)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:45 PM

27. You mean

Adult Friend Finder.

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Response to JustAnotherGen (Reply #27)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:56 PM

31. You know me so well

And we barely just met. Or so I believe

Crack me up!

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:23 PM

12. The deputy did exactly what he should've done.

He had to respond to the 911 call. Reading a transcript of the conversation between the deputy and Mr. McKean the deputy was able to defuse Mr. McKean's anger and fear at being questioned. The only thing I think the S.O. could've done differently is maybe dispatch a black deputy. But that's no guarantee the deputy would have been as capable as this one.

We are all including Mr. McKean over sensitized to encounters between white cops and black people, but I don't think this incident was handled badly by the deputy.

http://patch.com/michigan/bloomfield-mi/watch-michigan-deputy-detains-black-man-walking-hands-pockets

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Response to TexasProgresive (Reply #12)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:58 PM

33. No 911 recording

Or did I miss it?

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Response to marym625 (Reply #33)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:24 PM

36. The recording was on CNN.

Maybe they'll put it up at some point.

Peace.

Gotta' run.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Reply #36)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:37 PM

37. I found it

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2014/12/01/call-firm-owner-feared-man-pontiac-police-stop/19753193/


I still say that the man shouldn't have been stopped. He already left the area. Watching for a few minutes would be an acceptable response and, had he started back toward the store, then stop him.

I understand the guy who owned the store being overly suspicious of anyone looking in and not going in. But cops should be better trained to recognize a threat vs someone talking a walk.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:29 PM

15. I've been known to do the exact same thing myself...

While waiting for a cab or a ride. Maybe I'm lucky that no one has called the cops on me so far.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:32 PM

18. except he said

He just walked down the street and then back. Pretty normal to pass something one way then again on the way back.

But yeah, you're right.

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Response to MrScorpio (Reply #15)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:41 PM

24. Add it to the List of Innocent Things.




Walking back and forth. Or pacing while waiting for someone that is inside a store.

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Response to HappyMe (Reply #24)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:51 PM

30. OMFD that's hilarious!

I don't know how he does it, makes such serious things so funny, but just like George Carlin, he does it time and time again.

Thanks for this

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:50 PM

29. Almost sounds like the movie Minority Report, except there was no crime that was being

Committed or even considered.

Are we supposed to detain or arrest people because of how to they look?

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 12:57 PM

32. There must be more to the story. I bet he had a bag of Skittles.

Just sayin.'

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 01:12 PM

34. Since the issue is that the police hassled this guy for no reason, maybe the proper

response would have been for the 911 operator to call the person who reported it a racist and hang up on them.

No police are sent and this guy isn't hassled at all.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 02:28 PM

39. Probably 20-30% of the calls for service when I was a deputy were that kind of BS

 

But if somebody calls, we had to go check it.

People in camo walking in the woods- during hunting season. Gotta check it out.

Person walking down the street at night- gotta check it out.

People shooting on their own property- go check. Same person calls every single time they shoot, even after being told they have a safe range- have to go check.

Unfamiliar car parked at a church parking lot at night- gotta go check it out if they call.

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Response to TexasMommaWithAHat (Original post)

Wed Dec 3, 2014, 02:33 PM

40. An interview with the Black man is a bit different than what the 911 caller

had to say,

It also shows that the cops see all info given by a 911 caller as gospel and truth.
From:

http://theantimedia.org/walking-with-his-hands-in-his-pockets/



“The Deputy did not detain or pat down the individual and considering the nature of the call responded in a very restrained and professional manner.”

In the video, the officer’s cruiser can be seen on the road with its lights on, which, when asked by the Pontiac Tribune, McKean said that he believed this amounted to an involuntary stop, one that would not allow for him to keep walking freely.

While “probable cause” is required for an arrest, only a “reasonable suspicion” is required for a brief detention.

What police apparently fail to recognize is that having hands in your pockets is an alarmingly low standard for reasonable suspicion. And if Brandon McKean was not being detained, he certainly did not believe he was free to continue on his way.

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