Proof on the 911 tapes - Zimmerman remained in pursuit, and was not heading back to his truck?http://www.examiner.com/article/george-zimmerman-s-911-call-transcribed
Hes running? Which way is he running?
Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood. [2:14]
OK, which entrance is that hes headed towards?
The back entrance.
[It sounds like Zimmerman says under his breath, F-ing coons at 2:22]
Are you following him? [2:24]
We dont need you to do that. [2:26]
Alright, sir, what is your name? [2:34]
George. He ran.
Alright, George, whats your last name?
Whats the phone number youre calling from?
Alright, George, we do have them on the way. Do you want to meet with the officer when they get out there?
Alright, where are you going to meet with them at?
Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes youll see my truck. [3:10]
Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]
Um, I dont know. Its a cut-through so I dont know the address. [3:25]
... (partially redacted)
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Yeah, thats fine. [3:43]
Alright, George, Ill let them know youll meet them at ... (interrupted by Zimmerman)
Could you have them call me and Ill tell them where Im at? [3:49]
OK, thats no problem.
If Zimmerman was heading back to his truck, stopping pursuit of Trayvon Martin, why did he refuse to say he'd meet officers near said truck?
Pardon me if this topic has been discussed. I haven't followed the conversation on Zimmerman here, very closely.
tell them where he was at? If it was from the police to Zimmerman, there should be a record of the call.
involved in the confrontation at the point police returned the call? I've heard that the time-frame between a dead Trayvon Martin and the last call to police was very short. 3-5 minutes?
The first 911 call came in at 7:16:11 - that's the one with the screams and gunshot on it. The gunshot was 44 seconds into that call. The first officer says he arrived at 7:17, the second at 7:19.
Zimmerman's call ended at 7:13:41 according to the dispatcher log.
Trayvon was declared dead by the EMTs at 7:30.
I've seen no report that the police returned Zimmerman's call - they switched from responding to his call to responding to reports of a shot fired.
The first 911 call came in at 7:16:11 - that's the one with the screams and gunshot on it.
Doesn't that mean he was shot within seconds after the phone call with his girlfriend was cut off?
We know that Trayvon told her he had lost sight of Zimmerman, but then he appeared and Trayvon asked him 'why are you following me?'
7.16 (+ or - seconds)end of call to girlfriend. Hope they have an accurate time on that.
7:16:11 he was heard screaming for help, then shot.
That's an incredibly short space of time to have the fight Zimmerman claims they had especially if, as Zimmerman claims, he was walking back to his truck. Seems from the girlfriend's testimony, he was right there talking to Trayvon who obviously was not following him as he went back to his truck, as he has claimed.
Since the special prosecutor's people interviewed her and used her information in the charging document.
In addition, cell phone records back up her narration for the timing.
Seems he could have been in pursuit still, since he didn't want to give up his trucks location so easily. More like he was trying to give out the location he would be in to meet the cops, regardless of where the truck is.
"Could you have them call me and Ill tell them where Im at? "
he was heading back to the truck when Martin supposedly attacked him. Yet, he refused to state this is where he would meet police?
Not buying what he's selling ... sorry.
Now if the prosecution can poke holes in his story to show he is lying we may get somewhere. I doubt he would take the stand though.
George has reportedly told a few "stories". I think he poked holes for them.
about who chased whom. trayvon's call is further evidence that Zimmerman chased him..
And that's what got him out of the charge in the first place.
Zimmerman's credibility changed yesterday while on stand, and that's what a jury needs to see. Otherwise it's his word and his word alone.
That's what I thought when I first heard the 911 call.
It sounds like he didn't plan to stay at the mailboxes.
tape. It really pissed me off for two reasons. It was obvious that Zimmerman was going to follow Trayvon when he asked police to call him, but then I,was incredulous by the fact that the police agreed to it.
I have always been bothered,by that. He obviously went after Trayvon and Trayvon was trying to avoid him. No amount of twisting and squiming is gonna change that. We know what their states of mind were leading up to the killing.
There's an aerial-view map of the neighborhood area here: http://justoneminute.typepad.com/main/2012/03/last-map-of-the-retreat-at-twin-lakes.html
if Martin confronted him and started the fight wouldn't he get off with SYG? There is no law against following someone. The thing rests on who started the fight, doesn't?
when/if you're losing a fight. One most prove imminent threat of death and/or great bodily harm according to Florida state statues.
picture of injuries to the back of his head. If he had a broken nose and he has medical evidence of that, then what?
that he was in reasonable fear of death or permanent disfigurement etc.
Whoever a jury believes is screaming on the 911 tapes, will likely be key.
Under the Florida SYG statute, a defendant claiming self-defense proves his or her case to a judge in a pretrial hearing. Either the state or the defense can appeal the decision of the judge at this hearing. If the defense prevails, then the murder charge is dismissed and the defendant gains absolute immunity from civil or criminal charges and may sue the municipality for wrongful arrest.
This could all be over before a jury is even empaneled.
the state of Florida does not then allow him to use the state's money to stage a jury trial to satisfy doubters.
If his self defense is proved before trial, he should move away and get some plastic surgery.
However, when I look at this case through law-schooled eyes, I see Z with a better case in court than you do.
My personal opinion of Z at this time is considerably lower than my estimation of the probablity of him successfully defending himself in court.
People in the complex saw him with bandages on the back of his head and on his nose, which was reported as swollen by observers.
Presumably there is an MD report on this somewhere.
I can try to find the story if you like.
The fact that Martin fought for his own life, is irrelevant.
the jury will see that evidence.
No judge will keep out a doctor's report supporting a self-defense claim.
I leave the able prosecution to make their case.
Reuters does not ordinarily do really sloppy journalism.
Where is the Reuters report on George's life threatening injuries. And, why was he not taken to an ER by police, if he was severely injured?
Yet, Martin told his girlfriend he was being followed and that he tried to lose Zimmerman.
So, who started this fight? The guy stalking a kid with a gun or the kid who tried to take evasive action and get away from Zimmerman?
wouldn't Zimmerman have been a bit more reluctant to pursue him?
to save a family member, to protect their property, something big and even then, most people won't move toward danger.
So, it makes no sense for Zimmerman to have chased Trayvon if Zimmerman was in fear for his life. None at all. Zimmerman went looking for a fight, clearly.
Zimmerman clains and threw the first punch and broke Zimmerman's nose that makes him the agreesor, doesn't it? There is no
law against following someone, is there?
The law says, that's enough to stand your ground.
or whatever? With that law it seems to me anyone in Florida could just punch, kick or shoot anyone
and claim they felt threatened. How do they ever convict anyone of murder down there?
But the thing is, it's not reasonable to claim Zimmerman was in fear of his life such that SYG would kick in when he went out of his way to chase down someone who 1) he had seen commit no crime and 2) who wasn't threatening him in any way and who 3) we know felt threatened and was trying to avoid a confrontation because Martin reported as much to his girlfriend.
That part will have zero weight in court for either side, unless a new witness comes forward to say they saw what initially happened. What the jury will have to weigh is after Martin was on top of Zimmerman and everyone who saw that went inside and locked their doors, did Zimmerman get the advantage and were the cries for help from Martin just before the gun was fired?
I personally suspect Martin was afraid for his life at that point and Zimmerman fired in a reckless manor EVEN if Martin got the best of him early on in the fight. I can't imagine shooting a kid crying for help the way Martin was even if he did smash my head a couple of times.
whom he had profiled, cursed and called the police on for no reason.
just before he fired, then he`d have blood all over him `cause he would have pulled it out while he was getting beaten up and shot Martin at close range. Why does everyone ignore the lack of blood on Zimmerman? If there was a fight, even with Z on bottom, it ended before the gunshot - not WITH the gunshot. Therefore Z could not have been in fear for his life at that point. He`d gained the upper hand - with his gun. Hell, even if it WAS Zimmerman screaming for help (which I doubt), that would have been during the fight and not afterwards when he was no longer underneath Martin. He shot him from a distance and he could see that he was unarmed. He was not fearful for his life at the moment he pulled the trigger, because he was at a distance from Martin and had a gun pointed at him. He had gained the advantage. It`s pretty clear cut. The lack of blood on him is the crux of it all.
It's the combined lack of blood on his clothes and the fact the dispatcher told him not to follow Martin that are key to the defense here.
is a law against that anyway. stalking? if someone was following me I would be as scared as Trayvon was.
How would you feel if someone was following you? A loved one? Kid?
There's no law against following people.
in his statement to police. He then said Trayvon surprised him and punched him in the face.
There is zero doubt George followed Trayvon almost half way from the SUV to his Dad's girlfriends house, otherwise how could he have ended up so far from his SUV where he shot Martin?
statement? I'm of the impression there are several, (contradictory statements) but I've not seen any on the record.
The "story" I recall, being floated by his supporters, is that George listened to the 911 operator, stopped following Trayvon and was heading to his truck, before being ambushed?
As has been reported, Zimmerman told police officials that he lost sight of Martin and went around a townhouse to see where he was. Then he claimed Martin confronted him and punched him, knocking him down.
The accounts match on that point.
What happened after is in question.
and it shows the girlfriend was credible up to that point. I think the fact that the girlfriend remains vague on what happened makes her completely credible. She could have embellished the story to make Martin look better but she just stops at someone in the background saying "What are you doing around here?" and then thinking a fight broke out.
This would contradict Zimmerman saying Martin came out of nowhere and just cold cocked him which sounds like a hell of a stretch. More than likely Zimmerman did surprise Martin and said something like "What are you doing around here?" Which in my opinion is a very stupid thing to ask. Zimmerman should have said something to diffuse the situation like "Sorry to bother you but I am the neighborhood watchman and I don't recognize you. Do you have family around here?"
Seems Zimmerman was suspicious because he was running and became judge and jury because Martin was trying to lose him and not putting two and two together that he was not guilty just afraid of him.
but then decided he wanted to follow Martin in order to tell the police Martin's location.
during the phone call. I think part of him wanted to obey the police, but most of him wanted Martin to be "caught."
and he knew Martin was headed toward the back gate which was actually where his Dad's girlfriend lived. Zimmerman seems like the type would would desperately not want the "ass hole" to get out the back way.
Finally, it sounded like Zimmerman totally handled the confrontation with Martin completely wrong. "What are you doing around here? WTF??? I would be pissed off at that point. Why not point out who you are by saying "I hate to bother you but I am the neighborhood watch person here and I don't recognize you. Do you live around here?"
That would have defused the situation but instead Zimmerman totally fucked up because he is a fuck up and caused it to oscillate into a fight.
He seemed to be absolutely sure Martin was guilty of something according to my interpretation of the 911 call.
probable cause of a crime committed?
He's been caught with contradicting stories by the prosecutor and he knows it. He knows the prosecution knows he lies. And that's a scary position to be in.
in learning more about the text messages and emails, which were mentioned?
The man seems to NEVER be telling the truth...making this case even more convoluted than necessary.
and go back to his truck! What else explains where they ended up where they did? I don't know why certain insist upon believing that zimmy the giggling sociopath went back to his truck and that somehow Trayvon circled around to confront him. I'M GLAD YOU POSTED THIS, though nothing will convince bigots who are determined to defend zimmy's cold blooded murder of someone they consider to be less than human.
You nailed it.
....though nothing will convince bigots who are determined to defend zimmy's cold blooded murder of someone they consider to be less than human.
The mere thought he circled back is preposterous. He wouldn't confront a man he doesn't know in the dark with his family waiting for him at home. That just doesn't ring true...and why and how would he circle back when he was on the phone with his girlfriend. People conveniently forget he was on the phone with this girlfriend the entire time this shit was going down. The phone logs prove her story and the boys time of death.
The theories they come up with the justify a COLD BLOODED MURDER are amazing! It would almost be better if the bigots, here and elsewhere on the net came right out and said that "the n****r deserved it" because that's really what they're saying. I am so sickened to see such overt hatred directed toward a 17 YEAR OLD BOY, LEGALLY STILLL A MINOR CHILD!!
There are a few posters here who seem to be a bit racially challenged here...
Last edited Sat Apr 21, 2012, 06:16 PM - Edit history (3)
Got out of his vehicle, started following the kid, then chased the kid, and when they said, "We don't need you to do that." He said, OK. And after this 17 year old winds up shot down on the ground, he calls the police again and his defense is, "I stood my ground?" Please! We need more laws to protect our children. Why is the media even defending this?
What does the media do?
Deny, misdirect and lie.
"grownd". Never heard either one of those accusations until now. He said "OK" that's what he said.
The other one, never heard that one anywhere.
use to justify the murder of a kid. I don't think that it was meant to be literal.
He agrees to stop pursuit at the dispatchers request. After the 911 call is complete, Zimmerman begins to head back to his truck to meet the police. At this point, he claims he was confronted by Trayvon, and walks a few steps down the sidewalk south to respond to him.
if Trayvon was not a black kid , and considering all the evidence we have we wouldn't need to even go here.
it's like Trayvon is being forced to show he is not guilty. anytime there is proof of Zimmerman being in the wrong there is "but how do we know trayvon didn't............." .
i never saw this conversation before other than the part about them telling him not to follow. but it makes zimmerman seem even more thuggish and questionable of what his intents were.
and i keep going back to the "they always get away" . i guess he made sure "they" wouldn't this time.
7:12:00pm: Dee Dee makes a call to Martin
7:13:41pm: Zimmermans phone call with dispatch ends.
Zimmerman is looking for Martin
Martin is talking with Dee Dee over the phone
7:15:50pm: Zimmerman and Martin encounter each other
Martin: Why are you following me?
Zimmerman: What are you doing here?
7:16:00pm: Dee Dee's phone with Martin is abruptly cut off
7:16:11pm: The first of seven 911 calls is made by a neighbor
7:16:56pm: A gunshot is heard
7:17:50pm: The first officer arrives at the scene
7:19:07pm: A photo was taken by one of Zimmerman's friend
Martin must have immediately cried out for help. I'm guessing Zimmerman reached for his gun vs. phone?
Do you have a link - or inside knowledge?
before Trayvon was murdered. The arguing brought her to her back yard and the 911 call.
I'm going to guess this was the first 911 call based on her narration of the events...and who was on top. She is very credible...and yes, Banfield does to some leading in her questioning (ever heard Geraldo?), but the witness resists any speculation...clearly.
With all the time stamps and witnesses, it is pretty clear that Trayvon was headed home and George was following him and even in Florida, don't think he will get away with it, even though it took the prosecution almost 6 weeks to interview the last person to talk to Trayvon alive.
Telling her, no that was Zimmerman yelling? What kind of police work is that?