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AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 12:02 AM Dec 2014

Why are right wingers so often intellectually dishonest?

I am in a Facebook argument with a HS classmate who defended our use of torture because Muslims are worse. I said that's a poor justification and btw Timothy mcveigh was a Christian terrorist. She asked me where I got my misinformation, and that torture was justified to prevent another 9-11. I went to ask and found an article that said, while mcveigh no longer was a practicing catholic he still held "core beliefs" so unless you're a fundamentalist who believes Catholics aren't Christians he's a Christian. And that studies have shown torture tends to produce misinformation, as opposed to humane interrogation. I refused to do the research on that for her though. We've had a slew of similar arguments, and I've probably cited five times the sources that she has to back my claims up. This is not a stupid woman. We went to probably the most difficult public HS in NYC to get into. But she got her degree from a bible college, and swallows RW propaganda hook line and sinker. Our group of close to 100 classmates considers ourselves sisters, so she remains my friend. It just gets tiresome dealing with the stubbornness.

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Why are right wingers so often intellectually dishonest? (Original Post) AndreaCG Dec 2014 OP
Motivated reasoning. Look it up. unrepentant progress Dec 2014 #1
Ok I looked it up AndreaCG Dec 2014 #4
Of course you do. Seeking Serenity Dec 2014 #11
Gee you're not in the least bit smug and superscilious AndreaCG Dec 2014 #12
Because I don't like double standards. Seeking Serenity Dec 2014 #13
Hmm. You would fit in well on the Sunday talk show circuit AndreaCG Dec 2014 #14
You're putting words in my mouth or inferring things I didn't say Seeking Serenity Dec 2014 #19
This Sub_Thread Is Hilarious ProfessorGAC Dec 2014 #23
No chance that your implying things.... daleanime Dec 2014 #30
What a load of pure, unadulterated horseshit. Besides the right's refusing to abide KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #31
Both sides do it, both sides breathe air, other than that, there is NOTHING the left and the right NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #51
Right wing and intellectual are two words that never onecaliberal Dec 2014 #2
Here's a good example of how their minds (if one may use the term) operate. Shortly after KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #34
^^^ That onecaliberal Dec 2014 #44
it's easier to be a lazy racist. spanone Dec 2014 #3
Because if they weren't they'd be Liberals MannyGoldstein Dec 2014 #5
Hunter College HS AndreaCG Dec 2014 #6
D'oh! My bad. MannyGoldstein Dec 2014 #7
No offense taken AndreaCG Dec 2014 #8
McVeigh vs. Islamic terrorism YarnAddict Dec 2014 #9
Because they know they're wrong and don't care. True Blue Door Dec 2014 #10
This ^^^^^^^ treestar Dec 2014 #49
That rings funny. ananda Dec 2014 #15
McVeigh self identified as agnostic m-lekktor Dec 2014 #16
He did not brand his actions as Christian... Orsino Dec 2014 #25
McVeigh self identified as agnostic many years after his crimes Major Nikon Dec 2014 #37
Actually he was still nominally a Christian AndreaCG Dec 2014 #46
He identified himself as an agnostic in a letter written shortly before his execution Major Nikon Dec 2014 #57
Covering all his bases. : ) AndreaCG Dec 2014 #58
Because they believe dishonesty is the norm. kentuck Dec 2014 #17
Why is anyone ever intellectually dishonest? LWolf Dec 2014 #18
"Why is anyone ever intellectually dishonest?" Seeking Serenity Dec 2014 #20
Yes. LWolf Dec 2014 #21
There are the few democrats who are little better than republicans AndreaCG Dec 2014 #47
It's less an argument LWolf Dec 2014 #50
No I agree AndreaCG Dec 2014 #59
Right now I'm looking at a Facebook post claiming President Obama.... Tommy_Carcetti Dec 2014 #22
Teaparty and the like live in a universe where Obama is a Muslim waiting to bomb their NoJusticeNoPeace Dec 2014 #54
Because the facts are usually not on their side. dawg Dec 2014 #24
It's fear-driven reaction, not an intellectual process. DirkGently Dec 2014 #26
They have no intellect. muntrv Dec 2014 #27
Political beliefs are a lot like religious beliefs. LiberalAndProud Dec 2014 #28
cognitive dissonance only lets in facts that support their delusional world view on point Dec 2014 #29
No, she *is* a stupid woman. Ikonoklast Dec 2014 #32
You may have a point AndreaCG Dec 2014 #48
"defended our use of torture" 0rganism Dec 2014 #33
cognitive dissonance explains intellectual dishonesty Cosmic Kitten Dec 2014 #35
In the words of John Maynard Keynes some 90 years ago: KingCharlemagne Dec 2014 #36
They lie because they cannot win if they stick to the truth. They applegrove Dec 2014 #38
Exactly.. if they weren't dishonest then they would be wrong all the freakin time.. SomethingFishy Dec 2014 #39
Here's a Berkelely study that basically explains it. Zorra Dec 2014 #40
I love threads like this Tsiyu Dec 2014 #41
They have to be because their beliefs are based on lies, racism and sick Randian fantasies. workinclasszero Dec 2014 #42
When facts negate/deny your beliefs, you have two choices DFW Dec 2014 #43
Well, my late right-wing grandfather thought that Obama was a "far-left radical".. YoungDemCA Dec 2014 #45
Maybe not rich but sounds like a classic Bircher -right age group...was he a Bircher? lunasun Dec 2014 #56
Because that is the Nature of a Cult. misterhighwasted Dec 2014 #52
so Christian terrorist are way better than Muslim terrorist? lol SummerSnow Dec 2014 #53
the same words mean different things to them. take the "golden rule", for instance. unblock Dec 2014 #55
1. Motivated reasoning. Look it up.
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 12:08 AM
Dec 2014

You're doing it yourself right now if you think the phenomenon is confined to the right.

AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
4. Ok I looked it up
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 12:14 AM
Dec 2014

Certainly it is true to say that some left wingers do it (as would be true of any group) but I disagree with the implication that we are anywhere close to even proportions with right wingers.

AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
12. Gee you're not in the least bit smug and superscilious
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 03:30 PM
Dec 2014

Do tell me your Facebook and Twitter names so I can do nothing but try to absorb your neverending pearls of wisdom.

You may be seeking serenity but you're a galaxy away from attaining it.

Seeking Serenity

(2,835 posts)
13. Because I don't like double standards.
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 04:15 PM
Dec 2014

Or the idea on political boards that "my" side is pure as the driven snow and the "other" side is just the epitome of evil.

Yes, both sides do it (ours as well as theirs), and no, it's not a false equivalency, and no, we're not somehow justified or can be given a pass when we do it because our ends are noble and just (they say the same thing).

Self-reflection is always a good thing. And yes, I am seeking serenity, and I acknowledge that I may never attain it.

ETA: Read my sig line, from George Orwell's "On Nationalism"

AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
14. Hmm. You would fit in well on the Sunday talk show circuit
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 05:16 PM
Dec 2014

They don't do nuance well either anymore. My mind immediately recalls Ralph Nader in 2000 saying there is no difference between Bush and Gore. So ok, say all the Florida votes were indeed counted and Gore becomes the president. Would 9-11 have happened? Well, maybe, but the briefing paper Bin Laden determined to strike in the US probably wouldn't have been ignored, because it was the Clinton/Gore administration which ordered the study. And if the bombing happened despite taking steps to ensure it wouldn't, the Saudi royal family members whose citizens largely were the terrorists wouldn't have been escorted out of the US before the embargo on air travel was lifted and not properly questioned, because Gore was not personal friends of the Saudis due to shared family businessinterests in oil. And there would have probably been no Iraq war, because Richard Clarke stated the Bush administration planned how to start a war with Saddam Hussein even prior to 9-11, obviously not because he caused 9-11 but because Bush wanted to avenge his father's failure to reign him in, and even more because Cheney's Halliburton could make umpteen billions in such a war. President Gore would have had no such motivation to lie about the weapons of mass destruction and Saddam causing 9-11 not the Saudis.

That's just two discrete examples of how a Gore administration would have likely differed from the Bush one. Not even touching domestic policies and the environment. If you can't differentiate the substance and subtleties between two different people, parties or other groups you're going to fall back in the "well they all do it so a pox on both houses" canard. I don't know what else to say. I have a feeling this post will not budge you from your previous opinions. C'est la vie.


Seeking Serenity

(2,835 posts)
19. You're putting words in my mouth or inferring things I didn't say
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 07:29 PM
Dec 2014

I did not say both parties are exactly the same or anything like it. Clearly, their policy positions are different to a large extent. My point was on the the way partisans think and act and how they try to "otherize" their opposition and don't engage in the self-reflection necessary to see how they're doing to their opponents what they decry when done to them.

You asked (rhetorically, intending to make a broad statement, not actually seeking an answer to a question) about how "so many right wingers" are. Not very nuanced, in my opinion. "Those people over there? Ew. Why are they like that?" Guess what, they say the same things about us. The policies are very different in many ways (and in other ways not so much), but the tactics and rhetoric of the partisans are quite often very much the same.

ProfessorGAC

(64,184 posts)
23. This Sub_Thread Is Hilarious
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 12:46 PM
Dec 2014

Mostly due to your unctuous replies. All sweet and pseudo-intellectual, but really just a bitter pill.

You grabbed on to your own intellectual tidbit with the tenacity of a pit bull, and then lecture someone else on cofirmation bias?

Classic.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
31. What a load of pure, unadulterated horseshit. Besides the right's refusing to abide
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 01:12 PM
Dec 2014

in the world of facts and science, most of them also lack the 'empathy gene' which makes that cohort either borderline or outright sociopaths. So stop spewing your tu quoque line of malarkey. You have nothing with which to back it up. No data, no studies, nothing other than your own opinion.

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
51. Both sides do it, both sides breathe air, other than that, there is NOTHING the left and the right
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 08:10 PM
Dec 2014

have in common that they both do.

Both sides support their ideology, one sides ideology is fairness and decency and helping others, the other side is entirely based in greed and hate.

Both sides my ass

onecaliberal

(32,373 posts)
2. Right wing and intellectual are two words that never
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 12:11 AM
Dec 2014

Go together. They willfully ignore the reality that is right in front of their eyes. They are dangerous and destroying democracy and actual lives in the process.

 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
34. Here's a good example of how their minds (if one may use the term) operate. Shortly after
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 01:23 PM
Dec 2014

Katrina has swept through New Orleans, leaving mass devastation and suffering in its wake for those unfortunate enough not to have been able to evacuate, I had a boss sidle up to me and go, "Why didn't they get on buses when the Mayor told them to leave?" She was of course referring to the batallion of empty yellow schoolbuses whose image the media continued to show. No matter that the drivers of those buses had already left New Orleans in private motor vehicles ahead of the storm, no matter that there was no attempt to organize mass evacuations for those without the means to privately evacuate. No, in this boss' mind, the visual of that group of school buses and the Mayor's order to evacuate meant that those who stayed behind somehow deserved their fate because they were too stupid to heed the warnings. That's how 'right wing intellectuals' operate these days.

I walked out on that job a couple days later in mid-shift for entirely unrelated reasons. But really the reasons were related, as this boss and the owner were in tight cahoots and shared the same ideology.

Thanks for calling out the oxymoronic quality of most contemporary conservative intellectual noise. Real conservative intellectuals like Edmund Burke and Thomas Hobbes would have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this gang of charlatans and demagogues.

 

MannyGoldstein

(34,589 posts)
5. Because if they weren't they'd be Liberals
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 12:34 AM
Dec 2014

They'd have no choice.

Bronx Science or Stuyvesant? Or.... ?

AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
6. Hunter College HS
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 12:56 AM
Dec 2014

Two years before boys were admitted. It's now twice as hard to get in. No more than 300 are admitted, once, in 7th grade. It could be even fewer than that.

Elena Kagan was a classmate.

AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
8. No offense taken
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 01:08 AM
Dec 2014

Because we are under the board of higher education we are sometimes forgotten compared to Science, Stuyvesant and Brooklyn Tech. To show you just how hard it is to get in these days, the 6th grade test is no longer enough. There is now a 5th grade test to weed out applicants. I'm sure Elena would still get in, but as for me maybe not so much.

It was a unique experience in many ways. I probably would do college differently if I had a do over but HS was wonderful

 

YarnAddict

(1,850 posts)
9. McVeigh vs. Islamic terrorism
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 02:57 PM
Dec 2014

McVeigh was an anti-government nutjob, but he did not perpetrate his crime in the name of his religion.

OTOH, when someone screams "Allah Akhbar!" before perpetrating a crime, it's a pretty good bet that his/her religion has something to do with it.

Comparison fail.

True Blue Door

(2,969 posts)
10. Because they know they're wrong and don't care.
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 02:59 PM
Dec 2014

Being honest and honorable means nothing to them - all they want is to win, to subjugate others.

They're compulsive, pathological people incapable of reflection or self-restraint. That's why I call them cancervatives.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
49. This ^^^^^^^
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 07:46 PM
Dec 2014

There is a level on which they know they are wrong. This is why they resort to ad hominem at the first sign of an argument they can't defend or support their position over.

ananda

(28,759 posts)
15. That rings funny.
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 05:29 PM
Dec 2014

Intellectually and rightwinger are mutually exclusive terms, imho.

There is very little thinking and a lot of emotionalism, hate and greed
behind their dishonesty.

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
25. He did not brand his actions as Christian...
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 12:53 PM
Dec 2014

...so "Christian terrorist" is a misnomer. That he was a white-winger does not equate.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
37. McVeigh self identified as agnostic many years after his crimes
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 01:37 PM
Dec 2014

Prior to getting caught he was associated with the Christian Identity movement (a highly racist form of Christianity) which is a central theme of the Turner Diaries, a book in which McVeigh was highly influenced and dedicated.

As late as 2001, McVeigh professed belief in a god in a Time Magazine interview, but would not elaborate because he didn't want to give people more reason to hate him, which strongly suggests he still was an adherent to Christian Identity.

AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
46. Actually he was still nominally a Christian
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 06:30 PM
Dec 2014

In the article I linked to my friend it quoted him as saying that while he didn't really attend the Catholic Church anymore he still held "core beliefs". So I don't think that's really the definition of an agnostic. Perhaps an unaffiliated Christian.

Major Nikon

(36,814 posts)
57. He identified himself as an agnostic in a letter written shortly before his execution
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 09:11 PM
Dec 2014

He also received a sacrament by a Catholic priest before his execution.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
18. Why is anyone ever intellectually dishonest?
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 06:32 PM
Dec 2014

Intellectual dishonesty is not restricted to the right wing. It appears in all groups and subgroups.

For example, we often hear that exact same argument right here at DU, and in the greater Democratic Party: we should vote for whatever abhorrent corporate mainstream nominee because "would you rather have (insert any Republican)???" That IS a poor justification, but it's deeply embedded in party politics.

Seeking Serenity

(2,835 posts)
20. "Why is anyone ever intellectually dishonest?"
Sun Dec 21, 2014, 11:06 PM
Dec 2014

Because either a) they honestly don't know any better, or b) it suits their purposes to be so.

AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
47. There are the few democrats who are little better than republicans
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 06:36 PM
Dec 2014

Like the ones involved in the St. Louis debacle. But for the most part, even the more corporate democrats still have views on civil rights, women's rights, the minimum wage and a host of other topics that are better than the average republican. So I'm sorry but I think your argument is largely unfounded.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
50. It's less an argument
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 08:05 PM
Dec 2014

than an observation.

Simply that I can find intellectual dishonesty in any group, and that I've found it regularly here at DU for 12 years now. I just offered up one example, which can be found here at DU ad nauseum every campaign season.

And that example has nothing to do with politicians, but with the arguments their supporters offer...which mimics closely the example you gave in your OP. Which is why I chose that from many other examples, of course.

The point? Intellectual dishonesty is not restricted to the right wing.

AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
59. No I agree
Tue Dec 23, 2014, 12:40 AM
Dec 2014

I'm already skipping most of the Hillary/ Warren threads. It's just I truly think though we do it more than we should it's not as prevalent as with the RWingers

Tommy_Carcetti

(43,053 posts)
22. Right now I'm looking at a Facebook post claiming President Obama....
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 12:45 PM
Dec 2014

...spoke out about the deaths of Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown and Eric Garner, but never spoke out about the shooting of the two NYPD officers.

This despite this story and literally thousands of others:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30567740

So yeah, I'm wondering the exact same thing.

NoJusticeNoPeace

(5,018 posts)
54. Teaparty and the like live in a universe where Obama is a Muslim waiting to bomb their
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 08:22 PM
Dec 2014

house.

Literally

Nothing they say, NOTHING is true or is out of context.

dawg

(10,595 posts)
24. Because the facts are usually not on their side.
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 12:52 PM
Dec 2014

The defining principle of the right-wing in America is to promote policies that enhance the wealth and power of those who are already wealthy and powerful. That isn't a popular thing with most people, so they must obfuscate and dissemble.

DirkGently

(12,151 posts)
26. It's fear-driven reaction, not an intellectual process.
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 12:56 PM
Dec 2014

A person I otherwise know to be rational, caring, and non-violent opined to me recently, without pretext or provocation, that the killing of an Israeli child by (presumably) Palestinians justified the mass execution of Palestinian citizens. The killing of a Palestinian child by Israelis a short time later did not, of course, justify mass execution of Israelis. She identified with one group, and feared the other.

It's tribal thinking, fear-driven and straight from the amygdala (which interestingly is overdeveloped in conservatives). You see it on the playground as a child. Any rationalization is okay, as long as arrives at destroying the out group. Any attempt to introduce even-handedness or empathy is met with a full intellectual vapor-lock, followed by rage.

Conservatives in America are fond of saying liberal thinking is too emotional, but just the opposite is true. Every tent peg in American conservative thought is based on instinctual fear and an unreasoning drive to destroy perceived threats to the (perceived) group.

Conservatives are the club-wielding unga-bungas standing at the gates. They will defend "the tribe" at any cost, but they spend no time thinking about who actually is in the tribe, or what defending it actually means. They collectively stand on chairs and scream that there are bugs everywhere, and won't someone please stomp on them.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
28. Political beliefs are a lot like religious beliefs.
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 01:02 PM
Dec 2014

We humans tend to understand our environment through the lens that distorts our perception just enough to bolster our misconceptions.


: Peace on earth, goodwill to men. /sarcasm

Ikonoklast

(23,973 posts)
32. No, she *is* a stupid woman.
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 01:12 PM
Dec 2014

Intelligence is one thing, what she "learned" in "bible college" taught her to disregard her native intelligence and accept ignorance in its stead.

AndreaCG

(2,331 posts)
48. You may have a point
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 06:41 PM
Dec 2014

I don't think I'll share it with her though. She's still my "sister" and supportive in many ways excluding politics

0rganism

(23,819 posts)
33. "defended our use of torture"
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 01:21 PM
Dec 2014

and that is the crux of the whole problem, the notion that it is defensible in any way. The rationale doesn't really matter, especially anything about the victims of torture and their presumed guilt or complicity in other crimes. Their circumstances are completely irrelevant. Even if it were an effective means of extracting accurate information (which it isn't), there is a larger ethical issue that transcends all arguments of utility.

"Our use of torture" is fundamentally about us and who we want to be as a society. How do we want to be known around the world, how do we want to be remembered by history, how do we want to represent ourselves to our children and grandchildren, who do we want to be?

Whether or not "Muslims are worse" or "McVeigh was a Christian" is completely orthogonal to the real issue. As long as one is arguing over sufficient justifications, one accepts implicitly the premise that torture is ever justifiable. It is not.

Cosmic Kitten

(3,498 posts)
35. cognitive dissonance explains intellectual dishonesty
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 01:23 PM
Dec 2014
cognitive dissonance is the mental stress or discomfort
experienced by an individual who holds two or more
contradictory beliefs, ideas, or values at the same time,
or is confronted by new information that conflicts with
existing beliefs, ideas, or values.


Leon Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance focuses
on how humans strive for internal consistency.
When inconsistency (dissonance) is experienced,
individuals tend to become psychologically uncomfortable
and they are motivated to attempt to reduce this dissonance,

as well as actively avoiding situations and information
which are likely to increase it.
 

KingCharlemagne

(7,908 posts)
36. In the words of John Maynard Keynes some 90 years ago:
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 01:31 PM
Dec 2014
{Conservatism} leads nowhere; it satisfies no ideal; it conforms to no intellectual standard, it is not safe, or calculated to preserve from the spoilers that degree of civilisation (sic) which we have already attained.

Am I a Liberal?
(1925)

applegrove

(117,885 posts)
38. They lie because they cannot win if they stick to the truth. They
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 02:52 PM
Dec 2014

Last edited Mon Dec 22, 2014, 08:58 PM - Edit history (1)

create myths and plant them in peoples minds. People vote on those myths. Myths are how humans have learned to live in large numbers...like in cities. But the truth keeps showing up and undoing their myths...like the banking crisis, Katrina, how trickle down economics does not work, etc. Because their myths are not about making the world a better place for most people.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
39. Exactly.. if they weren't dishonest then they would be wrong all the freakin time..
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 03:10 PM
Dec 2014

It states right in the SIC torture report that no credible intelligence was gained through torture. But we already knew that since the SASC already reported that the reason we tortured to to extract false confessions tying Iraq to 9/11 to justify the coming invasion.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
40. Here's a Berkelely study that basically explains it.
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 03:22 PM
Dec 2014

In a nutshell, RWers are scared shitless of anything that is different from them, and will lie, cheat, steal, and kill in order to make anything that is different from them make sense to their little box of a worldview, or make whatever is different from them go away and stop making them fearful and uncomfortable.

Don't forget, you can't fix stupid, and you can't debate effectively with an insane person.

Researchers help define what makes a political conservative

http://berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2003/07/22_politics.shtml

Tsiyu

(18,186 posts)
41. I love threads like this
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 04:08 PM
Dec 2014

you always learn a lot by who shows up first to tell you "we're all the same kumbaya and all that rot."

It cracks me up.

I call it "troll damage control."

 

workinclasszero

(28,270 posts)
42. They have to be because their beliefs are based on lies, racism and sick Randian fantasies.
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 04:17 PM
Dec 2014

You can't reason with a madman. Just look at the freakshow that is the republican/tea party!

All of them are lyin idiots!

Fox and friends....need I say more?

DFW

(53,934 posts)
43. When facts negate/deny your beliefs, you have two choices
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 04:29 PM
Dec 2014

Change your beliefs to conform with facts, or change your facts to conform with your beliefs.

Beliefs, by their very nature, are pliable. Facts are not. So they make their beliefs into their own facts, and voilà! Problem solved.

To them, anyway. They ridicule anyone who believes in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, but when their own beliefs are held up to the light and found at least as dubious, they react with anger and hostility. At bible colleges, they don't seem to teach a lot of Christ's supposed charity or tolerance. They do, on the other hand, seem to give out many advanced degrees in in anger, hostility and intolerance.

 

YoungDemCA

(5,714 posts)
45. Well, my late right-wing grandfather thought that Obama was a "far-left radical"..
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 05:29 PM
Dec 2014

Based in large part on that clip of Obama saying to "Joe the Plumber" that he wanted to "spread around the wealth."

He also believed that the head of the AFL-CIO was a Communist, that most of Obama's administration were Communists, and that "Corporations have done so much good for the world, it sickens me to hear liberals say all this negative garbage about them."

And no, my grandfather was not rich, in case you were wondering.

unblock

(51,920 posts)
55. the same words mean different things to them. take the "golden rule", for instance.
Mon Dec 22, 2014, 08:25 PM
Dec 2014

to us it means "do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
to them it means "he who has the gold, makes the rules".

so when you say "intellectually dishonest", that means something different to them.
i think it means something like, logic and facts are just fine and dandy, provided they don't contradict core premises, such as everything capitalist is good, everything socialist is bad, everything big business is good, everything worker is bad, etc.

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