Neil deGrasse Tyson Trolls Christians on Christmas

[n2doc]

If there is actually a war on Christmas, famed astrophysicist Neil deGrasse Tyson seems ready to lead the fight.

On Christmas morning, Tyson, the director of New York’s Hayden Planetarium, took to Twitter to troll those celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ. Tyson wrote “On this day long ago, a child was born who, by age 30, would transform the world. Happy Birthday Isaac Newton b. Dec 25, 1642.” The tweet set off an Internet firestorm and was retweeted nearly 15,000 times in less than an hour.

Tyson’s tweet not only plays on the fact that Newton, the inventor of modern physics was believed to be born on December 25 but that Jesus Christ almost certainly wasn’t. The date does not appear in the New Testament and early theologians seemed to think that Jesus was born in the spring. The winter date for the holiday may have eventually been adopted to coincide with existing pagan festivals as part of an effort to convert non-Christians. The astrophysicist played on this theme in a following tweet, writing “Merry Christmas to all. A Pagan holiday (BC) becomes a Religious holiday (AD). Which then becomes a Shopping holiday (USA).” The one problem for Tyson is that while Jesus may not have been born in Christmas, Isaac Newton actually wasn’t born on December 25 either.

Newton was born during a 150-year-period where England used a different calendar from the rest of Europe. While the rest of the continent adopted the Gregorian calendar that we use today, the English persisted in using the less accurate Julian calendar which lagged ten days behind because a faulty method of accounting for leap years. As a result, while Newton was born on December 25, 1642 in England, his birthday was January 4, 1643 everywhere else.

more

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/12/25/neil-degrasse-tyson-trolls-christians-on-christmas.html

[True Blue Door]

1. How DARE he wish Isaac Newton a happy birthday on the date he was born!?

[Plucketeer]

15. Maybe Neil just didn't

grasp the gravity of the tweak he was tweeting. But I'd bet that he did!

[Jackpine Radical]

16. You just had to weigh in, didn't you?

[Plucketeer]

30. I did check to see

that no one else had employed the word Gravity. I do love Tyson.

[hifiguy]

72. The momentum may be in Dr. Tyson's direction.

[FirstClassTicket]

40. Wait, does Tyson believe in an afterlife?

If not, there isn't much point in saying "Happy Birthday" to someone who's been dead nearly 300 years.

[hifiguy]

73. That doesn't stop people from celebrating

Beethoven's Birthday every year.

[tecelote]

46. He has some great tweets...

https://twitter.com/neiltyson

[dawg]

2. As a Christian ...

I don't feel trolled by this at all. I feel reminded of Sir Isaac Newton, which is always a good thing.

[Enthusiast]

8. ...

To me it is the amazing mind of Newton that we should focus on. How is it possible for this one man to have such a grasp of the physical universe? To me, this is nearly incomprehensible.

[nxylas]

42. Me neither

But I guess "Neil deGrasse Tyson trolls the sort of Christians who believe that there's a War on Christmas and that being told to stop constantly bashing their work colleagues over the head with a Bible amounts to religious persecution" would have been rather an unwieldy headline.

[merrily]

51. If there is a war on Christmas, ebola may have won it. Or the latest battle, anyway.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-30455248

[calimary]

66. Neither do I. He's a national treasure.

I was so sad when Carl Sagan died. Who would we have, then, to carry that banner? To extol the virtues and wonders of science? To endorse its vital importance in our world - and our understanding of that world? To keep the darkness of ignorance and superstition away from our door? I was so bummed by that. He made science and discovery and intellect fun, popular, cool, even a bit sexy. And then he was gone.

I wonder how he would have responded to the dumbfuck contingent and science deniers and climate change deniers and other bozos and assorted dim bulbs who now afflict our society (and even more horrifying, manage to get elevated into positions of power and influence)?

I would have loved to see him take on dingdongs like james inhofe and other assorted idiots who now plague this country. And he's gone.

Thank God we have bright lights like Dr. Tyson! He's a true and worthy son of Carl Sagan. We NEED people like him, especially in the "media darling" arena. And I am grateful he's here.

[hifiguy]

74. All of this!!! nt

[Thinkingabout]

3. If this makes him happy let him go, doesnt take much for some.

[amuse bouche]

10. " let him go ?

Why? Who was holding him hostage?

[Thinkingabout]

22. having a hard time with translator, eh.

[amuse bouche]

48. "having a hard time with translator, eh."

Yes, so why don't you try complete sentences and thoughts and see if I can get your meaning. Thanks in advance

[Thinkingabout]

50. It is colloquialism, have fun undersanding.

[amuse bouche]

53. So which are the colloquial words ?

[Thinkingabout]

58. The phrase you do not understand.

[Gore1FL]

60. FWIW I don't know what you meant either. n/t

[Thinkingabout]

61. Go back and follow the conversation, it is very simple, a comment was made and apparently someone

Does not understand.

[Gore1FL]

68. Several of us apparently do not understand.

I was hoping for clarification.

[Thinkingabout]

69. Are you saying you do not understand " If this makes him happy let him go, doesnt take much for some

Wow, there are not any difficult words here, can't help you.

[merrily]

78. Maybe it's a colloquialism in a language other than American English.

[amuse bouche]

89. Probably just cowardice as per usual

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

4. Very well done Neil, doesnt take much to get idiotic rightwing xtians pissed off LOL

[amuse bouche]

11. I'm sure it's not just right wing

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

20. I have to say it that way to avoid being attacked here at DU

[amuse bouche]

49. Ah yes. They can be quite the snippy and humorless lot

[merrily]

52. There is no way to avoid being attacked at DU for some thing or another.*

Besides, while sticks and stone may break your bones, words can never hurt you--unless you cooperate. And words are about all message board posters have.

So, in all, you may as well not censor yourself. Then again, to paraphrase Mark Twain, free advice is worth every penny you pay for it. So you should probably ignore me. What works for someone with my personality may not work at all well for you.

I even saw California Peggy get attacked and she is about as sweet to DUers as anyone can be expected to be.

[demigoddess]

5. Well done, sir!

I just love an intelligent man!!!

[Overseas]

6. K&R. Wonderful tweet!

[hatrack]

7. Great tweet!

[Diclotican]

9. n2doc

n2doc

A good one - from Tyson no less - and it is indeed true Sir Iccac Newton was able to tranform how the world look at it self - and that he was born on 25 december even if it was of the Julian Calendar - who by then was less accurate than the Gregorian Calendar who is in use today arund the world...... I for one had a great giggle out of it - even if Im a christian.... Not everyone share it I guess - but then again if you can not have some fun in your life - what is the purpose of it then?

Diclotican

[starroute]

12. It's ridiculous to say Newton "actually wasn’t born on December 25"

The calendar when he was born showed it as December 25. The calendar when he died still showed it as December 25. It wasn't until 25 years later that England came into conformity with the rest of Europe.

Some people who were alive when the shift happened did some rejiggering of their birthdays. That's why we celebrate George Washington's birthday on February 22 instead of February 11. (Or used to until they created an artificial "Presidents' Day" instead for the convenience of business.) But Washington was something of an exception -- and trying to do the same thing retroactively to Newton just seems like a mean-spirited way of getting a dig in at Tyson.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2006/01/whats_benjamin_franklins_birthday.html

On Tuesday, Jan. 17, the city of Philadelphia celebrated Benjamin Franklin's 300th birthday. According to the Boston Globe, Franklin was actually born on Jan. 6, 1706, but that was before the colonies switched from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar. When Great Britain updated to the new system by skipping 11 days in 1752, Franklin dutifully moved his birthday. Did everyone change birthdays in 1752?

No. Most people were happy to keep their original dates. The Gregorian calendar had been in effect for most of Europe since the 16th century, when Pope Gregory XIII issued a papal bull that established the new system. Not everyone went for the idea right away, and Great Britain held out for 170 years. (The Church of England was particularly resistant to the proposal from Rome.) Some people protested when Parliament finally made the change. Posters were drawn up saying ,"Give us back our eleven days."

Franklin supported the change from the start. "Be not astonished," he wrote in his Almanack, "nor look with scorn, dear reader, at such a deduction of days, nor regret as for the loss of so much time …" Other prominent Americans supported the new system; George Washington updated his own birthday from the old Feb. 11 to the Gregorian Feb. 22. Even so, the majority of early Americans held on to the birthdays they'd always used.

[F4lconF16]

43. I agree.

It seems like an unnecessary dig at Tyson, for a reason that, while technically correct, is also a bunch of bs.

[oldandhappy]

13. I am Christian and I agree with the tweets!

Being a person of faith does not cancel facts! Jesus was born during lambing season. Newton did give us physics. And the season of joy has become a season of shopping. Not me! The economy cannot depend on me, giggle. But while Christians took over pagan celebrations, the retail industry has taken over a celebration of faith. Retail has taken over most celebrations of faith. But not Pentecost. Curious.

[defacto7]

14. The trolling is perpetrated by the writer of article.

The difference in dates between the Julian and Gregorian calendar is a Straw man argument and basically ridiculous. He lived in England, therefore his birthday is measured by the calendar used in England. Even now there are calendars other than the Gregorian that are used by different cultures. By their logic we all have different birthdays depending on which culture's calendar is being used. I think not. If he was in England, his birthday would be representative of where he was from and he would have had no choice in what a Monarch or Theologian forced their population use.

As far as accuracy, there is no calendar in use by any culture or nation that accurately depicts the placement of the earth in space and time in a form that we can hang on the refrigerator and know where in that space and time we were born. It's all arbitrary.

Whoever used the word "troll" in this article is the troll.

[cyberswede]

38. Exactly.

[whathehell]

45. Indeed..

[seveneyes]

17. Not a troll, just a simple cast of fate

There will always be more unique answers than questions. Most humans seek the ones that resonate and provide balance in their short lives.

[951-Riverside]

18. So, Christians aren't supposed to believe that Isaac Newton was real?

[defacto7]

19. one little added note

This is the proper title for this article:

Typical Straw Man Argument Used to Undermine Scientist's Credibility

Christmas or not, do we really need to try to undermine a scientist's credibility with common fallacy arguments that appeal to the unthinking? Whatever your religious or non-religious persuasion, don't you think we have undermined critical thinking enough? Articles like this are one of those slow creeping methods of promoting anti-intellectualism. It's one of those non-truths we complain about in politics that are there just to make a bad impression of the undeserving.

False arguments do not a "zinger" make.

[Initech]

21. Ha ha! Neil DeGrasse Tyson is awesome.

[Skittles]

23. thanking Dr. Tyson

love it when he talks REALITY

[eridani]

24. Jesus was born in spring? With shepherds watching their flocks by night?

That says summer to me-in that part of the world it's way too hot to graze sheep during the day in summer.

[former9thward]

32. Many climatologists believe ancient Palestine

was much cooler and wetter than the present. The area used to have lush forests before the Iron Age.

[ErikJ]

25. Irony that Newton was a very devout Christian

who was trying to discover the laws of god.

[phil89]

70. He also believed in alchemy...

He was obviously wrong about alchemy and the vicarious salvation through human sacrifice nonsense. Doesn't take away from his contributions, which were more than a character in a book of mythology.

[NaturalHigh]

26. This doesn't bother me any more...

than the fact that Jesus almost certainly wasn't born on December 25th. I think that the Catholic Church has even admitted that this probably isn't Jesus' real birth date.

We Christians are celebrating the birth of Christ. The actual date isn't all that important.

[LiberalElite]

29. One of the Catholic Holy Days on which Catholics must attend Mass

is December 8, the Immaculate Conception, in which Mary is told by an angel that she's pregnant with the Son of God. 17 days later she gives birth. There's something not quite right with this story....

[okasha]

34. The "immaculate conception"

was Mary's, not her son's.

The feast that commemorates the annunciation is March 25, nine months to the day from December 25.

You're confusing "immaculate conception" with "vitgin birth.".

[LiberalElite]

55. ok -

they make a bigger deal out of Immaculate Conception than the Annunciation.

[merrily]

80. Do we know that Mary's mom was not also a virgin when Mary was born?

I don't think the major confusion is semantic. The major confusion seems to be between the conception of Mary and the conception of Jesus, both of which were, according to the Church, "immmaculate." (While the Bible does say that the Messiah was born of a virgin, it says nothing at all about how Mary was conceived.)

[okasha]

81. Mary:s "immaculate coception"

means that she was conceived and born without original sin. Yours is the first suggestion I've ever seen that her mother as a virgin. It's certainly not a Church teaching.

[mmonk]

27. So we still have a few days before Newton's

actual birthday.

[Paulie]

36. And the perihelion of Earth

Plenty of reasons to party!

[JI7]

28. it's interesting what type of things make people angry

[Tobin S.]

31. Challenging beliefs does that to a lot of people.

I'm pretty sure Tyson was trying to push some buttons with that one. I say that as someone who loves the guy, and I'm also glad that he says such things from time to time as a public figure.

But, yeah, people can get downright hostile if you challenge their beliefs. It happens all the time here on DU, a place where people are supposed to have a lot in common.

[Nye Bevan]

35. How is wishing Isaac Newton a happy birthday "challenging beliefs"? (nt)

[Tobin S.]

44. Most Christians don't think of Christmas as a former Pagan holiday.

And, of course, you know the 25th of December is supposed to be Jesus' day.

"The astrophysicist played on this theme in a following tweet, writing 'Merry Christmas to all. A Pagan holiday (BC) becomes a Religious holiday (AD). Which then becomes a Shopping holiday (USA).'"

[FrodosPet]

33. Sir Issac Newton vs Bill Nye

[MisterP]

37. why'd he use a reckoning that deliberately rejected a scientific advance in the name of the most

provincial religious bigotry? XD

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adoption_of_the_Gregorian_calendar

[Bad Thoughts]

39. Newton was no Einstein

Yes, I'm serious.

[Adrahil]

57. Well I guess you're right, they were not the same person!

I think the hair is a dead giveaway.

Both men were incredibly brilliant. But Newton really did change everything.

[Cha]

41. Well, Happy Birthday, Sir Isaac Newton!

[7962]

47. Sheldon on "Big Bang Theory" beat him to it a couple Christmas episodes ago. nt

[0nirevets]

54. Christmas Today Is A Pagan Holiday

A Pagan holiday BCE, becomes a religious holiday CE, and the worship of materialism in modern times. Are the worship of money and materialism, and saturating children in a celebration of self-indulgence, Christian themes? Just asking.

Love to all, peace on earth, good will toward men.

[merrily]

56. The Julian calendar was a version of the Egyptian calendar that had been messed up by a Greek.

The Roman calendar was a hopeless mess, but the Egyptian calendar, based upon the position of a certain star when the Nile flooded annually, was accurate. However, a Greek attempted to reduce it to a certain number of days per year without accounting for the extra quarter of a day plus a few minutes and seconds that we adjust for with our "leap year."

The Julian calendar went into effect in the Roman empire in 45 BC, so by the time Jesus was (allegedly) born, it was probably off already. And there is no year zero. We just went from b.c. to 1 a.d., without rhyme or reason.

Oh, wait, none of that even matters because it's highly unlikely that Jesus was born on December 25 anyway, even for those who believe that Jesus was born at all.

For Christians, celebrating his birth, whenever it occurred that matters, not whether he was actually born on the day the world has, for whatever reason, chosen for the celebration.

Tyson was trying to be mildly humorous, and that is also what I suspect Ben Jacobs, the author of the OP article, was doing as well, when he claimed Tyson was leading the war against Christmas and trolling Christians.


The OP article, datelined December 25, 2014, closes with:

But, regardless of how one feels about Tyson, Newton, Christmas or Christianity, his tweet does spark one bigger concern: don’t people have something better to do on Christmas Day than complain about Twitter?

I guess the only thing lamer than people complaining about twitter on Christmas Day is writing an article on Christmas Day about people complaining about twitter on Christmas Day.

[gregcrawford]

71. Oh boy. You really lit my fuse with that "no year zero" nonsense.

Can we agree that a year is a unit of measure in the system we use for calculating the passage of time, just like a second, minute, hour, day, week, or month? And that all the units of measure within a given system must be consistent for the system to work? Good. Now look at your watch. Do you see a "second zero", "minute zero", or an "hour zero"? No, of course you don't. Neither do you see a "day zero" or a "month zero" on your calendar. So why in Newton's Name should there be a "Year Zero" between the arbitrary B.C. and A.D. that Christians have imposed on the Western world if no other measurements within the system employ a zero ANYTHING? The only zero here is the theoretical instant between the two that denotes the supposed birth of ol' J.C.

By your reckoning, every baby would have to celebrate a "Zero Birthday" a year after it was born, and THEN start counting the seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, and months until its FIRST birthday! That is SOOO not happenin'!

That whole "Year Zero" thing that started at the most recent turn of the century is one of the dumbest frauds ever perpetrated. Don't fall for it.

[merrily]

77. Guess you missed the point of my post, vis a vis Ben Jacobs article.

It's okay that you did that, except that you're wasting a lot of anger. which is always a shame, but especially during a fun season.

[gregcrawford]

83. Oh, it wasn't anger...

... more like frustration. You would not believe how many people have swallowed that whole year zero thing hook, line, and sinker. I will have to backtrack to find your Ben Jacobs reference. But fear not, I save my righteous indignation for matters that warrant it. Like where the hell I left my glasses THIS time.

Have a good new year!

[Peacetrain]

59. As a Christian

I do not understand why anyone would feel trolled.. a statement of simple facts is not an attack on anyone's faith..

[Fred Friendlier]

67. Trolled? Nah

Tyson makes a funny, we all laugh and move on.

The problem is with the internet atheists who are deliberately trying to antagonize the left Christians. Remember them, 85% of the Democratic votes in the recent elections and the people who made gay marriage possible? For these fundamentalist atheist extremists, Tyson makes a joke and they parade it around like fresh liver on a stick. Under this barrage of insults my attitude has shifted from "Brother Leftist!" to "Christers are shooting atheists? Gosh, that's terrible, maybe somebody could help you guys. Good luck with that."

[maced666]

85. Bingo. They don't care.

[Beach Rat]

62. Looks like Newton's First Law Of The Internet in play.

Once a tweet like this is set in motion it tends to go viral.

[FiggyJay]

63. I don't care

what a Monsanto propagandist has to say on any subject.

[Silent3]

64. They're OK, but they're not that great.

So I don't know why Tyson would care so much about the guy who invented those fig cookies.

[DhhD]

65. Tyson uses Lead to explain the age of the Earth. Also he discusses the connection to the worship

of the Roman God Saturn, planet of lead and the black plumbus cube.

http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/04/cosmos-neil-tyson-lead-industry-science-denial


Saturnalia celebrated with days of festive frolicking: Works of Lucian of Samosata-
"During my week the serious is barred: no business allowed. Drinking and being drunk, noise and games of dice, appointing of kings and feasting of slaves, singing naked, clapping of frenzied hands, an occasional ducking of corked faces in icy water—such are the functions over which I preside."

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/books-and-culture/a-brief-history-of-the-christmas-controversy-pagan-roots-secularization-97073/

Christians do not see that the war is on Saturn not on Jesus Christ.

[malaise]

75. Delish

There is a Cosmos marathon on National Geographic as I type.

[hunter]

76. I think Jesus was born on Halloween, after the final grain harvest. Tax collecting time.

That makes His curious post-crucification resurrection in the springtime a lot more fun.

The Christmas Holiday itself was clearly created to appeal to those people at higher altitudes and latitudes who were throwing huge parties just as the days were stating to get longer but people were starting to die from the cold, starvation, and communicable diseases, with dead frozen bodies stacked outside like cord wood until the ground thawed.

Heresy, yes I do know...

[hatrack]

79. BTW, if that's "trolling", then my right hand is a four-ton scoop shovel, and my breath levels trees

Well, my wife says that in the morning my breath could probably knock down a tree, or at least a large shrub, but . . . .

[Skittles]

82. people of "faith" seem very disturbed by reality

[maced666]

84. Already accepted that among Christians specific day is inconsequential.

No one reasonably expects specific birth dates over 2000 years old to be accurate to a 24 hour period. However a day had to be chosen.
Hard to troll people over a left sock or right sock issue.
The targets here can't or won't or more likely just don't care to listen to meaningless theory.
Target missed.
Fail.

[maced666]

86. LOL - as a muted agnostic he sure is a loud jerk!

Muted because he doesn't like any label though he says agnostic is closest to his 'beliefs'- but jerk fits nicely. When I first sped read this I thought he was just playing with dates and maybe Jesus wasn't born on specifically De. 25th, as his point.
On second take the obvious is he's just proving 'there is no war on Christmas' people wrong.

Why jerk? Well, he's made no secret that he doesn't believe in any religion.
Adding, "My total output on God and spirituality sums to less than 1% of all that I have delivered in speeches and written in books."
LOL okay - then what was the intent of this tweet?!

"I say I don’t care if people are religious"
Uh, hello! We have a bill of rights as protection just in case you do care - which I'm sure you (and millions of others) would had we not the protection. As is, whether you care or not means NOTHING.

I would say this - give me one - just one mind you - backhanded slap Tweet about Islam on an Islamic religious holiday, and I don't repeat the jerk label.
Until then (which will NEVER happen as everyone knows)
LOL - He's a jerk!

[closeupready]

88. I previously just sensed what a jerk he was, this does indeed

cement it for me. And I'm not what anyone would describe as a fan of xtianity.

[closeupready]

87. Oh, how pleased he sounds with himself.