A hint to newbies from a relative newbie re a "DU reality"

[ellenrr]

It makes no sense to talk about a "DU reality"
as if there is one, or two, or five voices here.

there are how many posters here?
20,000?

After posting here for a while, I recognize certain posters who will always have something worthwhile to say - whether I agree or not -
and some who will always say something that is a fart in the wind.
As fast as I put the latter on "ignore" there is a new member who is equally insipid.

There's always going to be idiots, some days seems like nothing but idiots.
Because anyone can join, anyone can post.

but then there are people who will make you think, and make you reassess your position, and make you laugh, and make you feel like you have made a friend.

The cutting the wheat from the chaff never ends.

that's life at DU.
Not for the faint of heart.

sometimes it becomes onerous, and like many here, when it does, I leave. We all have that choice.

Ultimately these are black marks on a page which mean nothing in the real world.
that is the most important point to keep in mind imo.

enjoy.

[CJCRANE]

1. I disagree. Your opinion, our opinions, are one of the most important things in the world.

Political parties, corporations, lobbyists, media outfits and even terrorists spend billions trying to make you believe what they want you to believe.

Don't give your power away to them lightly.

Express your point of view and stand up for what you believe in.

[Fred Sanders]

2. For instance during the Fearbola epidemic those that stood with the science and the scientists

against the anti-science folks and the deflecting fear mongering media, those folks deserve some praise for standing up to the mass propganda push intended to deflect from the real issues of a national election being held...though the mass media would have fear mongered on something anyway, why did so many science loving liberals get sucked into that black hole so easily?

Too bad so many here actively promoted that fear.

[marym625]

3. That was disgraceful

I was blown away by that. The Ebola fear mongers I mean

[ellenrr]

6. I guess my OP did not make my point clearly...

I agree peoples' opinions expressed here can influence other du members.

that probably happens a lot.

if we are receptive (and if we can avoid being troll-baited) we can learn from each other.

I am saying that this is an internet chat room, so what goes on here is not a matter of life and death,
and also I wanted to say that there are an infinite variety of issues and positions here, so there is no "DU reality". there is no "Du position".

also wanted to share to any new person who might get discouraged and leave -
bec. depending on what you read - a person might form the opinion there is nothing of substance here -

that sometimes you have to dig thru a lot of shit to get to the pearl.

and sometimes it is even worth it.

[1StrongBlackMan]

26. FWIW, I completely agree with your assessment ...

especially, this part:

I am saying that this is an internet chat room, so what goes on here is not a matter of life and death,

I suspect that much of the push back you get/will get is because for many, this is the extent of their "activism" ... putting words on an anonymous message board.

[ellenrr]

37. yep - to yr last sentence. nt

[pipi_k]

34. Oftentimes the "nothing of substance"

also wanted to share to any new person who might get discouraged and leave -

bec. depending on what you read - a person might form the opinion there is nothing of substance here -

that sometimes you have to dig thru a lot of shit to get to the pearl.

and sometimes it is even worth it.

turns out to be the same old tired lines posted day after day, by the same people, followed by fifty or a hundred or more replies, all basically saying the same thing.

Agreeing with 49 other people isn't "discussion", as some seem to want to call it.

Woe be to anyone who comes in with a different opinion. Especially if it's a newbie.

OMG!!! How dare that person upset the comfortable little apple cart??? How dare that person make us think of things outside our safe little box?

As to whether or not there's a DU Reality, I don't know. I do know...or suspect, at least...that a lot of people want a DU Reality, and all the better if it exactly matches their own reality.

[ellenrr]

38. yes I agree. some of these threads that go and on and on...

I don't get what people get out of that.. .but this is where I say, "each to their own"

[TexasProgresive]

21. I actually blocked threads with ebola in the title

because it was blowing up DU with too much crap. I could've missed something good but it was getting impossible to see other posts of value.

[ellenrr]

5. I express my opinion by taking to the street, joining protests, as much

as my physical limitations allow.

Marching or sitting-in, or die-in, or other direct action, like Occupy, fighting foreclosures, - all of these have meaning.
in the real world.

I'm not suggesting anyone not express their opinion.

But writing a post in an internet chat room does not have meaning in that - it does not affect any politician, lobbyist, corporation, media or terrorist.
for ex thousands of posts, probably hundreds of thousands of posts will be made at du concerning the 2016 election.
It could be billions of posts, that does not determine who is selected to be a candidate.

for ex, what we write about the "Black Lives Matter" movement, or about cops, or about violence - I find it interesting, that's why I read and I sometimes respond.

but again, no matter what is said here, tomorrow some young Black man gets shot by the police, or not...

I'm saying there is no influence here, we influence each other, but there is no effect on real world actions. there might be an effect, say if someone reads a post about activism, and decides to become an activist. or someone reads a post about veganism, and decides to become a vegan.

what I"m saying is that people can scream here about the cops or about the protesters - it has no impact on what goes on in the real world-
ie what will be the outcome of the feud between the mayor and the police structure?
this seems to me a very important issue, one that I will watch closely, but what is said here in this chat room, does not matter, has no significance concerning the outcome of the situation.

I didn't mean that it doesn't have meaning, provide something, on an individual basis.
I post here, so I must get something out of it.

[RiverLover]

7. Well said, ellenrr. +1 nt

[CJCRANE]

12. It all has an effect: writing, blogging, speaking, protesting etc.

Where do people get their ideas from that inspires them to take action?

From words, from sharing ideas with other people and thinking about things for themselves.

DU has a small readership, but DUers influence others and also journalists and political aides read discussion boards like DU as a sort of focus group to see what people are saying and thinking.

Sometimes they copy our ideas and use them in a positive way, other times they steal our ideas and use them against us. But it all has an effect.

[pnwmom]

27. You disagree with something the OP never said. Read it again.n/t

[CJCRANE]

28. "Ultimately these are black marks on a page which mean nothing in the real world.

that is the most important point to keep in mind imo."

[marym625]

4. Nice post

I don't agree with the leave part. I understand some people have had to take a break, especially of late. But don't just leave because of some idiots.

I would add not to let the alert baiters to get you. More than likely they'll be gone soon enough

[underpants]

8. DU - wise and otherwise

[ellenrr]

13. I have no idea what this means. nt

[onecent]

9. I liked your post....

kind of my theory in life....live and let live.....Pick and choose your battles cuz we aren't gonna win the war. Happy New Year. Ellenrr.

[ellenrr]

14. exactly, one cent. took me an unreasonably long time to learn this -

"pick your battle".
(I'm 67)
Happy New year to you too.

[onecent]

33. I'm 69 and still learning.....lol

[ellenrr]

39. oh wow, someone older than me. (not much) :) I often wonder what peoples' ages are here. nt

[onecent]

46. I liked DU much better during

the Bush years (hated Bush) but profiles were not such a secret then and you could tell where people
came from (at least the state) when some start talking about bad weather, I NEVER know where they are.

[ellenrr]

53. what bugs me is that I can't tell from the user name the gender.

what difference does that make?

I don't know.. but it matters to me.

[mfcorey1]

10. It is also amazing how many other organizations monitor DU. After the midterms I saw

a link: Meltown at DU. Just google it. They are concerned with our thoughts and our camaraderie.

[CJCRANE]

15. The Fox News believers often say "perception is reality".

That's why they spend most of their time pushing lies and trying to make people believe them.

Just looking for the facts and different points of view and thinking for yourself is the best way to counter their attempts at "creating reality". That's why places like DU and its dissident attitude are important IMO.

[ellenrr]

16. "Meltdown at du" means they are interested in the drama,

not necessarily in the thoughts.

my point is there is no "our" thoughts .

This is not like several facebook groups I'm on, where people share (to a greater or lesser degree) a point of view, and where people strongly opposed to that pov, don't get in, or are booted.

There is no "our" here. There is no one point of view on ANY matter which could be said to be a DU opinion.
(except what is in the guidelines)

there are people here who love, hate and everything in between - the president.
... the police, the protesters

there are communists, anarchists, capitalists, right-wingers, socialists, idealists, utopians, pessimists, optimists.

there are feminists, and women haters.

there are vegans and meat-eaters

there are sages and dopes.

mfcorey1- what do you see as "our" thoughts?

[Fumesucker]

11. So often it seems those who have the least to say are the ones who talk the most

Practically every family gathering is like that, the gossips and know-nothings prattle on about ephemeral trivia while those I would be actually interested in listening to rarely speak up.

It's on my mind a bit after Christmas since we got an outstanding example of that this year.

[JonLP24]

51. I have a tendency to ramble

go off an a sidetrack here or there. Your post could be me but I'm actually the completely opposite in real life. I rarely speak, especially when it comes to politics, which I'll say something if it comes up which rarely does actually.

[ellenrr]

52. I suspect this is true for a lot of people here,

that those who barely peep in real life, find the courage - anonymously - to speak online.

I remember a guy I knew online who was a son-of-a-bitch. He never made a post that wasn't an entirely gratuitous insult.

when I met him in real life-
tripped me out!
what a quiet little mouse. Sat in a corner at meeting, never said a word.

Not only was he quiet but he was helpful. As when I called for directions to this meeting, he offered to meet me and let me follow him, which was a very nice gesture.

Go figure...

[raouldukelives]

17. It is funny when people talk about a "DU reality".

"You aren't living in the real world!" they say. When for me, DU is about the only place I can go to and get reality. Everything else around me seems not much more than commercialism, advertising and propaganda.
I come to DU to get a dose of eyes wide open reality. Not the spoon fed garbage of our "free press".
I just said this in another post but it works here as well.
If we never face reality, we will never deal with reality. Many people are not only counting on it staying that way, they are doing all they can to assure it remains that way.

[polynomial]

18. looking for a measure system

Here some on DU looking for a measure system, at least my own thoughts are in that area too.

My gage is not totally by the comments written because as is said many comments simply are flatulated rhetoric. For me it’s more of the views. The higher the number the better the issue is the Buzz for the time.

And a lot of the times on DU that Buzz does make it to the mainstream.

Yep it’s with a laugh and chuckle I may write things however there is a purpose to not only improve my knowledge but to improve my writing skills which means to develop my political insight.

To be able to argue for total paid education in our country, total absorb Part B Medicare into one plan call it just Medicare A.

Argue for no taxes for retired people especially those that don’t have 401k’s. Never have a government shut-down, a ridiculous concept in negotiation the Republicans introduced in the Congress.

Or the very important issues I learn here on DU about a phony war, trillions of dollars profiteered by Bush and Cheney, via 911, and more War crimes, banking swindling by Bush Cheney era. None of it really admitted by the mainstream media basically because the media giants are complicit in corruption through commercial revenues, political or otherwise.

I have learned so much from different people on this blog and thank them for spending time to talk about issues. Much of what is not mainstream media is written here and that is what my off line talks can contrast. What is the Buzz on the Internet and people like Bill Mahar, Thom Hartmann, etc. do write comments in an anonymous fashion. Or Congress people like Grayson

Heck stupid editorials are in major magazines or for reading the basic newspaper like the Tribune in Chicago, or especially the Sun-times.

You could discern many of the articles are of what can be considered light to medium bias especially for today’s diversity. It takes a careful thinking to sift through the basic rags that survived today.

My Niece gave me a book for Christmas because I make my opinions about the American system. The Book is called “The Second Book of General Ignorance” are you laughing yet.

There is a quote from John F. Kennedy on the inside cover that makes me think he really defined the one percent.

“The one unchangeable certainty is that nothing is unchangeable or certain” by JFK

Did you get that…talk about confusing…or say it different than the old kings English.

Kennedy had a way to say things ass backwards in Old Kings English that didn’t make sense in today’s language.

Like “Ask not what your Country can do for you” form my view then why the hell vote for anybody, or perhaps he already knew that 

[ellenrr]

19. I agree with Post 17 & 18 BUT you should realize that there are boundaries

here too.
So when you say "free speech" or "dissent",
yes there are a lot of different opinions expressed,
but there are some lines that cannot be crossed.

But I agree: within the boundaries - which I believe are set out in the Community Guidelines - there is room for a wide variety of opinions.

but if you want to read and express opinions which question/challenge/criticize the Powers that Be in this Country,
there are freer places than DU.

jus' sayin'...

[dawg]

20. There are probably more DU'ers than there are climate scientists.

Just because a relatively small group doesn't represent the views of the greater population does not mean that the group's views are wrong.

[RiverLover]

22. But the public at large gets exposed to climate scientists' views

Whereas the majority of Americans don't know DU exists.

No one is saying people here are wrong.

[dawg]

25. A bunch of people are saying that we are wrong.

I've probably seen it a hundred times. Some variation of, "this is DU - it isn't the real world".

Personally, I feel like I have been living in "The Emperor Has No Clothes" since at least 2000.

[Stellar]

23. Thanks for sharing...

I have felt uneasy at times and I couldn't tell you which poster it was coming from. I have recognized that there are new posters that may have a couple dozen post and they will initiate a (controversial) thread...I don't like those threads. Most time they have ulterior motives.

[ellenrr]

31. yeah, I think it takes a while to "get" the tone of any forum..For me,

I've gotten to where I can often recognize a troll, or someone who starts a post to see how many responses they can get -
the hard part for me it not responding.

I keep telling myself, -
I don't have to respond to everything I disagree with.
I don't have to always tell someone that they mis-read my post.

Sometimes silence says more.

[nilesobek]

42. But ellenrr,

I'm very torn between two points of view there. Yes, sometimes its just not worth it to respond and/or put the person on ignore. I recently purged my ignore list. Undeclared amnesty of about 20 high count posters.

I don't like to impose censorship upon myself out of fear of a backlash either. Discretion the better part of valor? Sometimes it feels like walking a very narrow path where a wider one is needed.

[ellenrr]

44. I agree, it does feel like walking a narrow path-- in my fantasy, I get rid of all the blatherers

and idiots and have a fine conversation with the remaining reasonable and intelligent DU'ers.

Some Internet forums have a moderator who keeps a conversation from descending into blather.

Also, I find that every forum has its own "tone". Some are very respectful. Occasionally of course you get a troll, and they are quickly dispatched to the internet nether region.

otoh a person who turns to du for the 1st time, is confronted with aggressive posting, one-up-man ship, blah-blah-blah, so if they are a person who is comfortable with that, they stay.

If they are a person seeking serious (or light) conversation on a liberal forum, they probably do not stick around, unless they have the fortitude to wade thru the BS.

Let's face it, most people, trying out DU, probably see threads which go on for 200 replies, the majority of them:"you're an idiot, No, you'e an idiot." and leave as fast as they can.

[ellenrr]

45. another factor that makes a big difference re civility

is anonymity.
Chat rooms, forums which require real name, always are more civil.

(boy we could have a whole thread on "civility" except how long before someone would trash it?)

[boston bean]

24. So you have a DU reality....

that you want to tell all of DU about.

[yuiyoshida]

29. *waves*

Have a Happy New Year Boston Bean! (Just thought I would slip this in before I forgot!)

[H2O Man]

30. Recommended.

I recommended this, both for the OP and the discussion that follows.

In its hey-day, DU attracted Elizabeth Edwards, as well as family members of John Kerry and Wes Clark. This was largely because of DU:GD's infamous "Plame Threads," which contained information that MSNBC in particular used. It also was a place where aides to democratic candidates in the 2008 primaries came, to try to influence the liberal-progressive community.

It also has been a watering hole for individuals who have impressive records as grass roots activists. People who have engaged in efforts including voter registration, education, and participation, among populations that normally do not tend to vote.

DU also attracts the political wallflowers -- people with keen insight, but who have felt marginalized by society. Here, they appreciate that their voices are valued.

At the same time, there are always going to be people with more anger than insight. This includes people who are sincere in their beliefs that things should be done in specific ways, to improve society, yet are frustrated by the masses' refusal to recognize things such as the evil of a George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

And there are also many confused people, including those who use DU to channel their personal bitterness.

I've shared a story that Rubin Carter told me years ago: A primitive tribe found an airplane. One man liked the seats, and decided the plane was a comfortable living room. In time, another found the plane could run on the ground, and concluded that he had discovered the first automobile. Yet, in being satisfied, these people never realized that air plane could fly. And that, I believe, is DU.

[Oilwellian]

32. Great post, H2OMan

DU has been my guiding light for many years. Sometimes you have to wade through the tomfoolery, but there has always been a nugget of wisdom to behold that will make you think.

Take your last paragraph for example...

[lumberjack_jeff]

35. Separating those who annoy you from those "who make you think" is problematic.

I can rarely separate the former from the latter except in retrospect.

That's why I almost never use my ignore list.

[ellenrr]

40. not to me. grin. I find it easy. for ex, someone

who replied to a post of mine, which I guess he/she disagreed with:

"Merry Christmas" and the sarcasm sign.

wtf?- this is someone whose posts I do not need to see.
not that I use the ignore function very often, if I used it, I'd be using it 20 times a day...
it's too much trouble.

[tiredtoo]

36. anyone that has spent anytime

on an internet discussion thread should know how to separate the wheat from the chaff.
Like others here, i come for the knowledge gained and blow away the bs. While i have few posts to my credit, i do lurk daily and learn something each time.
Thanks to all.

[ellenrr]

41. you sound like a sensible person. I wish people like you would post more,

and I wish the blowhards would post less.

oh well..that is one wish I won't be granted.

jus sayin'

[A HERETIC I AM]

43. It should be noted...

that I am not a nice person and will always be mean and nasty.

Then I go and put on my baby seal/kitten skin vest and head out to breatfeed at a Hooters.

[JonLP24]

47. I wasn't a big fan of the other

but a big one of this one

[ellenrr]

48. ? what are you talking about? nt

[JonLP24]

49. The lecture on reality as opposed to "DU reality" which

there are many sources & threads shining a light on things that remain unknown to the general public. One example, is John Carlos informed the Australian Olympian what they were about to do and he said, "I'll stand with you" which led to him being reprimanded and ostracized.

You will find a wide variety of information & debate, you take a nonpartisan issue that explodes in the media and daytime talk shows but you will also the same wide rage of opinions as you would. I feel it mirrors the real world when it comes to debate except not so much of the Fox News POV but it still exists. Just not quite apparent.

I don't want that to distract from this thread which I'm a big fan of and welcome and look forward to future discussions & contributions.

On edit - H2O Man, as always, says it better than I can.

[titaniumsalute]

50. Great post

While I know many people on DU post much more often than I do, I am on here everyday reading stuff. I see what goes on overall. There does, many times, seem to be a self-importance of the gravity of things said on DU. In the grand scheme of things what we say or do on DU doesn't really matter.

I used to work in talk radio. A old radio DJ icon and talk show host told me at a fairly young age, don't take your self too seriously. It just a stupid radio show. He was right. Whatever we said or did on the air, in the grand scheme of things, didn't really matter.

[ellenrr]

54. yes, the self-importance of some people here is very evident. I try not to let

it get to me,
some people need to boost their own self-worth. (shrug)

I came for a long time to LBN, reading and not posting. Now I keep posting! I hope this phase ends, as I would rather be outside.

[titaniumsalute]

59. I joined DU more than 10 years ago with a different name.

I ran into a weird situation where I wasn't on DU for about a year. I didn't remember my login and password and the email I used to set it up went away with an old job. I was screwed so the admins told me to just start a new account. I had about 5,000 posts at that time. When I rejoined a few years ago I have rarely posted stuff.

[Capt. Obvious]

55. Your post would carry more weight

if you claimed to be Coast Guard killer.

[ellenrr]

56. does it make you happy to waste time?

see, if this were my forum, I would bounce this one.

oh well.... we live in a less than ideal world.

[Capt. Obvious]

57. Waste time?

Like reading your post?

[ProfessorGAC]

58. Wow! How Condescending

Is there a list of what you approve of being posted before any of us bother?

[kpete]

60. thanks ellenrr

black marks on a page which mean nothing in the real world


black marks on DU or anywhere in my known universe should not be allowed to penetrate the heart

you said it exactly right:

like many here, when it does, I leave. We all have that choice.

it is very simple to just go take a walk and breathe............


peace to you and yours,
kp

[ellenrr]

61. thanks kpete. this is really nicely-said-

"black marks on DU or anywhere in my known universe should not be allowed to penetrate the heart ."

peace to you too.