There are no NAZI's in Kiev. No sirree...

[truth2power]

http://www.moonofalabama.org/

January 02, 2015


Ukraine: "From the spirits that I called ..." - Part II

Yesterday thousand of fascists marched with torches (vid) in Kiev and other Ukrainian cities to remember the birth of the fascist mass murderer of Poles and Jews and Nazi collaborator Stephan Bandera. Those forces will not go away and they will drag Ukraine further to the right and further apart.

Some dark humor: Someone posted in a comments section, somewhere, a while back, that not to worry...when the neo-Nazis in the Kiev government have outlived their usefulness the US will send in a JSOC team to "suicide" them.

I fear it's too late, even for that.

* * *

Waiting for the usual suspects to show up with their excuses.

[Adrahil]

1. There are no Stalinsists in Moscow... No siree

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Waiting for the usual suspects to show up with their excuses.

[Boreal]

10. They aren't running the country, though

Unlike the FREAKS who ARE in charge in the failed state of Ukraine.

[Adrahil]

15. The far right parties got clobberd in the elections in Ukraine.

And Putin is running Russia. He's pretty damned fascist.

[Boreal]

16. The freaks in Kiev are fascists

and Pravy Sector and their other goons they've unleashed to murder their fellow citizens are straight up Nazis. Neither Putin nor Russia are remotely fascist. They are being maligned by fascists and their supporters in order to mislead the uninformed to gin up support for the proxy war going in Ukraine and the economic warfare being waged against Russia. Oh, and like their Nazi predecessors, the Ukraine fascist are deeply racist and Russia is not only not but a true multicultural society.

Thanks for playing, though.

[Adrahil]

17. So... You're a Putin stooge, then.

Got it. The Kiev government is fascist because you say it is (despite the fact that they got a very, very small percentage of the votes) and Putin isn't despite his use of the government to pursue political enemies, oppress minorities and dissenters, fuel ultra and paleo-nationalistic feelings, and dramatically increase military spending and militarily aggressive posturing. Oh yeah, and seizing and annexing a part of another sovereign nation.

You Putin lap dogs are hilarious.

[zappaman]

46. " Neither Putin nor Russia are remotely fascist."

[stevenleser]

29. Putin and his cronies ARE NeoStalinists and they ARE running the country. nt

[Boreal]

38. No, they aren't

and the assertion is absurd. Of course you make it to mislead people who may not know any better.

Even very anti Russia Forbes published this:

7 Reasons That Russia Is Not The Soviet Union

I post that not for you because your dissembling and interest indicates you are well aware of the truth. I post it for others who are not so up on the subject so they can be better informed.

[stevenleser]

39. I didn't say Russia was the Soviet Union, nice strawman. I said Putin and his cronies were neostalin

ists.

[Boreal]

40. If they were

then the Russian Federation would be like the USSR and it isn't. Not even remotely.

[MFrohike]

41. It's not a strawman

You can't have Stalin without the Soviet Union. You're trying to separate Stalin from his Leninist roots and make him some universal symbol of terror when he can't be understood outside the context in which he lived. You'd be better off making a Romanov comparison because of the close relationship between the government and the Russian Orthodox church.

Additionally, invoking Stalin as the ready-made comparison for any Russian leader the West doesn't like is lazy. The essence of Stalin was control and change. Putin is not trying to remake his society. He's trying to reclaim whatever glories of the past Russia once had. There's a world of difference of between the two and it really cheapens any discussion of Russian-Western relations to pretend that Stalin is always just hiding behind the curtain. Imagine if someone opposed to German-imposed austerity in Europe decried Adolf Merkel (not hard to imagine, plenty do). It sounds ridiculous. It only sounds viable if you're either ignorant of the history involved or deliberately ignoring it in order to score a cheap point.

[stevenleser]

42. It is a strawman. And yes, you can be a neoStalinist without the Soviet Union

Like any other philosophy.

[MFrohike]

45. Oh?

Do explain how you separate Stalin from the purges, the camps, collectivization, and the general terror. I'm mighty curious how you do that except to lazily declare every jackass who says something positive about him a neo-Stalinist. Seriously, you might as well talk about neo-Nazis who've given up on the whole Aryan supremacy b.s.

[SidDithers]

20. Careful, the Putin boot lickers don't like criticism of Russian hypocrisy...nt

Sid

[pampango]

2. Unfortunately there are neo-Nazis everywhere. The European version is often supportive of and funded

at least partially, by Putin and the Russian government.

[Fred Sanders]

3. Who funds the Ukrainian neo-Nazis, they seem to be quite powerful there.

[pampango]

5. Not all that powerful given their performance in the last election.

But they do look impressive, I suppose, when they stage a rally. Sometimes appearances are not reality.

[Boreal]

14. oligarchs

like Kolomoisky who funds whole battalions. He also put the bounties on the heads of those murdered at the Odessa Trade Union Building.

[Adrahil]

18. They got clobbered in the elections and have, what?, 2 seats.

Hardly powerful.

[Fred Sanders]

22. The NRA in America has no seats.

[stevenleser]

25. Every Republican is a defacto NRA vote. nt

[Boreal]

11. That's a lie n/t

[pampango]

21. Is that you, Joe Wilson?

"You lie!" shouted the South Carolina Republican. This was in response to President Barack Obama's statements on illegal immigrants.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/sep/09/joe-wilson/joe-wilson-south-carolina-said-obama-lied-he-didnt/

Would you care to clarify the nature of your disagreement? Would you not describe the Putin-European far right as a 'mutual admiration society' at the very least?

[Fred Sanders]

23. At the very least would you not call the armed camp of the pro-coup faction fascist friendly?

Once again we have the Two Armed Camps Debate...no quarter given in between...it is an Internet illness.

[pampango]

24. Few here would deny that there are neo-Nazis in Ukraine and that they are evil people who

do evil things.

Unfortunately, there are neo-Nazis everywhere in Europe and the world and the Russian government is happy to support the neo-Nazis elsewhere in Europe (other than in Ukraine). The election monitors in the Crimean referendum were largely drawn from far-right parties in Europe and, not surprisingly, found no problem with the way the referendum was conducted.

Putin and the European far-right share a commitment to nationalism/patriotism, "traditional family values" with predictable results for gays and women, strong national leaders who aggressively 'defend' their country against a liberal Europe and a shared hatred of the EU.

I would be extremely happy if support for Ukrainian far-right fighters, both those fighting for Kiev and those fighting for the separatists, were withdrawn and these fighters decommissioned - if not thrown in jail and prosecuted by the ICC.

[Fred Sanders]

28. That would be a good thing, will the Ukraine government have the courage to reject them openly?

At least some formerly intransigent folks are admitting there may be "some" neo-Nazi influence in the Ukraine government, now that the evidence is overwhelming.

[pampango]

31. A better question would be "will the Ukrainian and Russian governments have the courage to reject

far-right fighters openly". Both would have to back down from hard-line position claiming they are fighting "Russian invasion" or "Ukrainian fascists". That climb down is always a hard thing for politicians to do.

There may be some neo-Nazi support within the Ukrainian government - though the far-right was decisively rejected in the recent election so their power is waning. Of course, there is neo-Nazi support for the Russian government from within Russia as well from the far-right in practically every European country except Ukraine.

[NCTraveler]

4. rt link or it didn't happen. nt.

[bemildred]

6. Odessa Police Get Help From Skateboarding Dog To Break Up Protests In Ukraine

A dog with a talent for skateboarding has unwittingly helped Ukrainian police to break up protests in Odessa, CEN reports.

Sam, a British bulldog, can be seen riding his skateboard through crowds of angry protesters, who were demonstrating amid allegations of political corruption.

The mob were were threatening to rush the City Hall in Duma Square over building permits, when the performing pooch turned anger into amusement as he rolled through the crowd.

Eyewitness Anatoly Hlushko told CEN: "He was hilarious and impossible to ignore, he seemed very excited about the action and was smashing the skateboard left and right and running into everyone.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/01/02/sam-british-bulldog-skating_n_6406176.html

[KittyWampus]

7. There are also neoNazis in Germany (NDP), France & Holland etc. What's your point?

There are Neo Nazis in European countries and a few far-right parties have elected politicians into seats within various Parliaments.

[Boreal]

12. Are they in armed battalions

sent by the government to murder their fellow citizens? No, so what's YOUR point?

[Blue_Tires]

8. LOL@RT

[nilesobek]

9. Very strange bedfellows.

We've got leftists collaborating with Neo Cons to bring down an elected government. The leftists want to collaborate with Nazis also. There are about 30 posters here who will try and tell you they aren't Nazis.

I've seen over a dozen videos and these ducks are straight up Nazis. Their supporters should hang their heads in shame forever.

[Boreal]

13. Neocons and

neolibs. Same beast. They want Russia returned to the Yeltsin days so it can be looted, again. They are shilling for the oligarchs who stole the Russian people blind and became billionaires stealing public assets.

[stevenleser]

26. Not true. No one here will tell you Ukraine is devoid of neoNazis Russia isn't devoid of them either

nor is Germany, France, Italy, Greece, the US, etc.

[nilesobek]

30. Yeah I hear that.

There's one down the street from me with twin Nazi and Confederate flags in the windows of his trailer.

Somehow this seems a lot more menacing though. Marching by the tens of thousands shouting Nationalistic slogans to celebrate their collaborator, Bandera. The dude in the trailer doesn't seem to be as organized.

[SidDithers]

19. RT. LOL...nt

Sid

[truth2power]

32. Someone already said that, Sid. Try to keep up...

But thanks, anyway, for your analysis.

[Jesus Malverde]

34. .

Jesus

[stevenleser]

27. Your OP is a classic strawman. No one said there are no NeoNazis in Ukraine.

But you put that out there as the supposed assertion some of us are making and then beat it up.

Problem is, none of us are saying that. There are neoNazis in Ukraine. There are NeoNazis in the US. There are NeoNazis in the UK, France, Germany, Greece, Austria and a heck of a lot of them in Russia too and many other places.

[truth2power]

35. You appear to understand that it was sarcasm. But to be fair..

I should have been more clear in that I was referring to the Kiev government; which is why I used the word Kiev and not Ukraine.

And that has been the argument right along - that there are no Neo-Nazis in the Kiev government; or if there are, it's a-ok because Freedom, or Democracy, or something like that.

I understand that there is a perceived wisdom that must be supported here, and it can turn on a dime, depending on which CIA sponsored government the US is backing on any particular day.

So....carry on.

[stevenleser]

43. Your point simply doesnt stand by any measure. nt

[truth2power]

44. Explain, please.n/t

[LanternWaste]

33. No doubt, you will kindly link to any thread stating without qualifier that no Nazi's live there...

No doubt, you will kindly link to any thread stating without qualifier that no Nazi's live in that country, yes? Or (and I find this more likely) was this passive-aggressive missive of yours meant merely to validate your biases?

[truth2power]

36. See post #35, above. n/t

[gordianot]

37. Odious Politicians and Political movements exist world wide.

In America we have our share of disgusting authoritarian political movements that advocate violence, discrimination, racism and international aggression for profit. The most watched news media outlet in the United States, Fox News, is clearly Fascist Authoritarian drivel protected by the First Amendment owned by a foreign born international terrorist with American Citizenship.