The 2 major difference between NAFTA and TPP are:

[CK_John]

First; 5-6 billion with a B consumers vs 600-800 million cheap labor pool.

Second; NAFTA was a treaty we basically wrote and the TPP is a list of demands to sell stuff in their sphere of influence.

The real question is do we them more than need us????

[Jackpine Radical]

1. Who is "we?"

Our corporations? Wall Street? The people ( )?

[CK_John]

3. Who benefits is another problem, I'm just sick of the false comparisons of the 90's toward

the world as it is today.

[yallerdawg]

2. Obama explained...

Democratic opposition to TPP "is fighting the last fight (NAFTA) again," which no longer applies.

What jobs are left corporations are going to export? "Do you want catsup with that?" cannot be exported. All the low wage manufacturing jobs are gone already. Some are coming back now, sa standards and wages rise in competitive nations of low-wage workers.

TPP is about thwarting China in its influence, and creating labor, environmental, and trade standards which will benefit the US economically and politically.

Real "Politics" is subtle. Knee-jerk reactionary forces misdirect and serve other agendas.

Can't we start with trying to understand why the leader of the Democratic Party supports TPP, and why he insists it is good for us?

[daleanime]

4. If that's the case.....

why not just put all the details out to the public and have a discussion about the pros and cons? Why insist that only certain sections of the government and major international corporations have a seat at the table?

[yallerdawg]

5. Negotiation and compromise.

The final agreement will be sent to Congress and every other involved nation has to sign off.

If every party has to have a perfect outcome, then there is no negotiation or compromise, and there will be no trade agreement to begin with.

[daleanime]

6. And we have/need no say in it....

[yallerdawg]

10. We will have a say in it.

Many Congressional Democrats are vehemently opposed to TPP, and Congress approves trade agreements.

Before the biggest trade deals can get done, Obama will need to get lawmakers to give him the legislative authority to expedite their debate and passage. Also known as “fast-track” legislation, the Obama-backed TPA bill failed to advance earlier this year after outgoing Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) refused to take it up out of concern that a vote on the bill before the midterm elections would put Democrats in the politically hazardous position of possibly damaging their support from labor and environmental groups.

Even with the GOP majority in the Senate, the bill will still need Democratic support to get through Congress, political observers say.

“The critical item here is the extent to which the president manages what I’ve characterized as intraparty politics for Democrats,” said Scott Miller, a senior adviser at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “I think everybody has concluded, including myself, that this needs to be a bipartisan effort.”

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/01/trade-outlook-2015-113793.html#ixzz3NguPddyn

[daleanime]

12. And there's no one behind the counter....

with a finger on the scale, putting this in the best possible position to pass. No matter how we feel about it?

[NewDeal_Dem]

8. so what? put the details out there. the apologism is sickening. every time they said "it's

not a big deal, it will be a good thing, we'll gain jobs" it's been lies. lie after lie. sickening, disgusting, treasonous.

[treestar]

14. It's so sickening to have anyone disagree

about the effects of a treaty. Treason? Maybe it really isn't so bad? Would it be painful to have to consider that?

[CK_John]

9. The TPP is a sort of hostage situation, a list of demands to us. One of which is, any leak and you

get nothing.

[think]

7. Ya. Let me know when the House Dems and unions are on board:

http://delauro.house.gov/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1455:delauro-miller-lead-151-house-dems-telling-president-they-will-not-support-outdated-fast-track-for-trans-pacific-partnership&Itemid=21

http://www.cwa-union.org/pages/10_ways_the_tpp_would_hurt_cwa_represented_workers#.VKbjVyvF9Z8

[treestar]

13. We do have to deal with it whether we like it or not

that the rest of the world is expanding. We can't just demand that it stop.

If it is US companies that are investing elsewhere that could create jobs here, too.

Environmental and labor groups are right to be concerned, but the natural "free market" could be far worse than the TPP on those issues.

[treestar]

11. I've heard people say we are being left behind

When they observe the economies of Asia. That's where it is all happening now. We need their labor to get more expensive.

[CK_John]

17. One of the problems I see is that they are beginning to produce their own stuff in

addition to our stuff. So since we don't produce our stuff, we are needy.

They are tried of us telling them how to treat their people and how to stop polluting, and how to test the food, etc.

It's a simple treaty, (from their point of view) if you want us to sell us your stuff, stop whining.

[GeorgeGist]

15. Your math is pitiful ...

actual TPP consumers (outside US) 484,496,099, including US 804,557,799.

[CK_John]

18. The population of Asia is about 6 billion the US just hit 320 million. Now China and other large

Asia populations may not be at the table but they are the invisible elephant in that room.

[mmonk]

16. Imaginary?