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If Sanders's jobs bill doesn't pass, will he be accused of "not fighting hard enough" for it here? (Original Post) Recursion Jan 2015 OP
He'll certainly fight hard for it JonLP24 Jan 2015 #1
I doubt anyone here edhopper Jan 2015 #2
And yet, ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #18
I think there is quite a difference edhopper Jan 2015 #23
Okay.n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #24
Obama is not an utter failure RobertEarl Jan 2015 #108
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #110
Ask yourself RobertEarl Jan 2015 #111
I asked myself ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #112
Gawd RobertEarl Jan 2015 #113
+ Eighty Gazillion Scuba Jan 2015 #116
Okay.n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #122
Oh my! sheshe2 Jan 2015 #127
I know; but it's my New Year's thing ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #136
We know, he was told by the health insurance industry, directly and through politicians votes randys1 Jan 2015 #30
We know we could not have gotten the public option treestar Jan 2015 #46
Johnson would have. edhopper Jan 2015 #55
Johnson didn't. He tried and didn't. Recursion Jan 2015 #57
There you go injecting historical facts into liberal fantasy discussions, again. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #97
That does not answer my point. treestar Jan 2015 #90
Could you imagine the press conference(s) called ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #98
This message was self-deleted by its author treestar Jan 2015 #89
"Minority Senator?" He's on the Budget Committee! joshcryer Jan 2015 #118
The Democrats edhopper Jan 2015 #123
Clueless. joshcryer Jan 2015 #124
You are aware edhopper Jan 2015 #125
Wow, just wow to your response. sheshe2 Jan 2015 #126
I didn't mean it that way edhopper Jan 2015 #128
Unlike Obama, Sanders is not proposing something against the Dems and will fight for it on point Jan 2015 #29
I'm pretty sure ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #99
Unlike Sanders..President Obama doesn't get to write Bills.... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #129
But he sits at the table and puts chained CPI, TPP and other crappy proposals on it on point Jan 2015 #130
No he doesn't..... VanillaRhapsody Jan 2015 #131
Interesting how you have to interpret the OP's point. But I think you are right, he is trying to be rhett o rick Jan 2015 #67
It hadn't occured to me that it wouldn't be clear: I'm irritated at a double standard on DU Recursion Jan 2015 #69
It isn't a double standard. The President has disappointed the progressive wing rhett o rick Jan 2015 #77
Unless you are saying that "respect" means... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #103
Yes ... I do have, fairly good, reading comprehension skills/ability ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #100
He's one vote out of 100. He isn't the President yeoman6987 Jan 2015 #3
The President is 0 votes out of 100. Biden has more say in it than Obama (nt) Recursion Jan 2015 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author aspirant Jan 2015 #49
Why can't he motivate his fellow Senators? treestar Jan 2015 #45
This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Jan 2015 #4
Of course he will. Anything to make him look bad as a candidate. djean111 Jan 2015 #5
Interesting. I'm going to delete my earlier comment in this thread and trash Autumn Jan 2015 #12
Obama has pushed a similar jobs bill for six years now Recursion Jan 2015 #25
For one thing, Sanders does not have the bully pulpit or the executive powers of the president. djean111 Jan 2015 #27
Really? Recursion Jan 2015 #28
You know, I get it that you do not like Bernie, or do not care for his popularity, or perhaps djean111 Jan 2015 #33
Then you don't get much about me, because I do like Sanders Recursion Jan 2015 #35
Which clause - the one in the TPP? Because if Obama gets his Fast Track, there will be no clauses djean111 Jan 2015 #39
I mean passes the negotiations (nt) Recursion Jan 2015 #41
Obama has never had a budget passed. Yet he gets shit on. joshcryer Jan 2015 #120
One thing it does do is highlight what the people want and then shows how the Rs voted on it. I jwirr Jan 2015 #36
Ick. Very telling. tblue Jan 2015 #83
No--he will be a victim of the "PTB." MADem Jan 2015 #6
Tell me how his bill will pass in a repub congress? upaloopa Jan 2015 #7
There's a reason he waited until Reid wasn't majority leader Recursion Jan 2015 #8
Wouldn't that have something to do with his new position on the JonLP24 Jan 2015 #11
Sanders is very good at amendments -- his FQHC amendment to PPACA was brilliant Recursion Jan 2015 #56
Well, he's on the Budget Committee. joshcryer Jan 2015 #121
That's an "excuse" treestar Jan 2015 #44
Count on it. n/t lamp_shade Jan 2015 #9
No. Sanders doesn't pretend to support causes to trick his base, then undermine GoneFishin Jan 2015 #10
Bingo. Here's the answer. QC Jan 2015 #32
Why didn't he introduce it back in the last Congress, then? Recursion Jan 2015 #53
Why insinuate via question instead of spitting out what you think? rhett o rick Jan 2015 #59
JAQing off is the term, I think. QC Jan 2015 #64
I don't think there's much doubt what he's doing: making a good point Recursion Jan 2015 #65
Obviously because he's a meaniebutt and a poopiehead QC Jan 2015 #70
Sigh. This is about DU, not Sanders Recursion Jan 2015 #71
There is the possible and there is the improbable... kentuck Jan 2015 #13
There's times when introducing a "show" bill that can't pass is exactly the right thing to do Recursion Jan 2015 #15
Agreed. If the Rs do not act in the best interest of the nation then we should continue to introduce jwirr Jan 2015 #50
Agree.. kentuck Jan 2015 #51
This is not making a "stand" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #105
Good point. kentuck Jan 2015 #117
My concern isn't his effort -- its his effectiveness. aikoaiko Jan 2015 #14
Govtrack.us is a great resource JonLP24 Jan 2015 #16
They listed two jobs bills and they was for youth jobs. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #43
Yeah, of 333 of his bills, only three passed. joshcryer Jan 2015 #119
No. Sanders is teflon at DU... SidDithers Jan 2015 #17
LOL ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #20
+1 treestar Jan 2015 #42
I can tell if a person has fought even if they fail. Can't you? Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #19
+1, well said F4lconF16 Jan 2015 #22
Very good point. Fighting and losing is much better than just talk. JanMichael Jan 2015 #37
Well ... 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #107
Not just that. Next they'll whip out the "narcissist" attack. Bonobo Jan 2015 #21
One senator has very limited power. What's your point? nt. JanMichael Jan 2015 #31
One Senator has more say in any law than the President Recursion Jan 2015 #34
Post #19 explained it better than I did. nt. JanMichael Jan 2015 #38
+ 900000000000 treestar Jan 2015 #40
Hero worship? n/t. 1StrongBlackMan Jan 2015 #109
Do you know how many have 'signed on' the actual bill? It gives an idea of how many votes 'for'. Sunlei Jan 2015 #47
No, and I'd be interested to see a nosecount anybody has (nt) Recursion Jan 2015 #48
There should be a place on his dot/gov page with the proposed bill listed Sunlei Jan 2015 #87
My question is how many other senators has he contacted to get his bill passed? Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #52
you can go to any senators DOTgov website & see all the bills they proposed and the progress on them Sunlei Jan 2015 #92
This site does not tell me how many senators he has contacted nor ones he has Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #93
This site? you mean DU? many more bills die then ones that pass, its the way it is. Sunlei Jan 2015 #94
The site you supplied in post #92. Thinkingabout Jan 2015 #104
No. bluestateguy Jan 2015 #54
I think conservative politicians have a better understanding of the role of "impossible" bills phantom power Jan 2015 #58
I agree, which is why I'm glad he's introducing the bill Recursion Jan 2015 #61
First he is on teevee constantly fighting onecaliberal Jan 2015 #60
It depends. Will he actually introduce the bill? dawg Jan 2015 #62
Seems like a safe bet to me he will Recursion Jan 2015 #63
In that case, he's doing what he's supposed to do. dawg Jan 2015 #66
I agree. Now, Obama has proposed a jobs bill every session for the past six years Recursion Jan 2015 #68
No. He'll be criticized for being so "unrealistic" and "impractical". dawg Jan 2015 #72
+100000000 onecaliberal Jan 2015 #78
If there was a Democratic majority in the House and Senate, your Zorra Jan 2015 #73
Well, in this thread my agenda is needling some DUers for a pretty silly double standard Recursion Jan 2015 #75
Well, neither Obama nor Bernie are LBJ, and times have changed; and many Democratic legislators Zorra Jan 2015 #88
bingo treestar Jan 2015 #91
Sanders is consistent and reliably speaks out for what he stands for. OnionPatch Jan 2015 #74
How do you know he "fights hard"? Recursion Jan 2015 #76
Well, it wasn't my phrase. OnionPatch Jan 2015 #80
What a juvenile question. BillZBubb Jan 2015 #79
Gee I wonder that too.. You know what I don't wonder? SomethingFishy Jan 2015 #81
Are you under the mistaken impression that the FDIC receives taxpayer money? Recursion Jan 2015 #82
No I'm under the impression that the FDIC is supposed to be insurance for my money.. SomethingFishy Jan 2015 #85
Derivatives are not being insured by the FDIC Recursion Jan 2015 #86
Jeez, the year's only 4 days old Jackpine Radical Jan 2015 #84
I know this is really Meta style snark, but consider this. The US Congress has yet to pass ENDA, the Bluenorthwest Jan 2015 #95
I always wish there was someway for President O to chain congress to their chairs, Sunlei Jan 2015 #96
Nope. Bernie's white. riqster Jan 2015 #101
Nobody who knows how much the Republicans despise everybody on Main Street. Warpy Jan 2015 #102
Are you kidding me? The Authoritarian types will be crucifying him for at least 2 weeks! Rex Jan 2015 #106
Logically it depends on the effort even if it passes ie the bill passed despite being essentially TheKentuckian Jan 2015 #114
I know the President fought hard for his JOBS BILL all over the country.. Cha Jan 2015 #115
Sanders fights hard for us everyday. 840high Jan 2015 #132
Why do you say that? Recursion Jan 2015 #133
I see a man who 840high Jan 2015 #134
That's a separate question, isn't it? Recursion Jan 2015 #135
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
18. And yet, ...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:23 AM
Jan 2015

that is the constant claim here, regarding President Obama ... he could have gotten {Insert policy here} if he had only fought harder for it.

I think that is the OP's point.

edhopper

(33,575 posts)
23. I think there is quite a difference
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:32 AM
Jan 2015

between the President and a minority Senator.

It also seems at times that Obama doesn't even offer the progressive course of action. It's not a matter of trying harder, he sometimes doesn't even try.

We will never know if he could have gotten the public option because he took it off the table for example.

It's not true as much as some people claim, but at times he doesn't try hard enough, or it isn't really his agenda.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
108. Obama is not an utter failure
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:32 PM
Jan 2015

But he sure has come up short when it comes to helping the working man and woman. Shareholders love him, banksters, and the establishment do too.

The snide underhanded remarks from some of you, op included, do nothing for the working people's unity and for our struggles. Ya'll should just stop.

Obama needs to have his feet held to the fire. Some of you lick his feet. Just stop.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
110. Okay ...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:08 PM
Jan 2015
The snide underhanded remarks from some of you, op included, do nothing for the working people's unity and for our struggles. Ya'll should just stop.


Pointing out the double standard being applied to this President, might be seen as snide underhanded remarks; but, applying an double standard, does nothing to aid the working class, either.
 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
111. Ask yourself
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:21 PM
Jan 2015

What are you up to?

Are you protecting a weak president and in doing so compare him to a senator, just to make the weak president to look better in our eyes?

This type of thread is just bullshit, crapola. F'n embarrassing for DU. Ya'll should just stop.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
112. I asked myself ...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:33 PM
Jan 2015

and answered, "No" ... I am not protecting a weak president and in doing so compare him to a senator, just to make the weak president to look better in our eyes ... I am pointing out the double standard is (and has been) applied to this Democratic President.

For this to occur on DU; but more, to deny this is occurring IS (or should be) f'ng embarrassing for DU. But it isn't.

 

RobertEarl

(13,685 posts)
113. Gawd
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:44 PM
Jan 2015

So, you criticize DU for not reaching your standards.

DU has no power, but the president of the US does.

Yet all you do is criticize the powerless.

Victim blaming is all it is and it's BS.

sheshe2

(83,747 posts)
127. Oh my!
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 10:48 PM
Jan 2015

These days Obama S**ks when he inhales and when he exhales. As noted by that last poster.

Geeze....usss.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
136. I know; but it's my New Year's thing ...
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 08:21 AM
Jan 2015

3 responses and out.

Or, in this case, I would have lead with a Civics lesson on the role of the POTUS; then, within that context, provide a list of the progressive initiatives President Obama has put forward; then, explain life in the real world of politics, i.e., In big legislation, you never bring to the table that which you don't have nearly the votes (in your own caucus) to pass ... you don't get a second shot ...

But alas ... it's the New Year, so I refrained.

randys1

(16,286 posts)
30. We know, he was told by the health insurance industry, directly and through politicians votes
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:42 PM
Jan 2015

what would work and what wouldnt.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
46. We know we could not have gotten the public option
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:58 PM
Jan 2015

We know there weren't enough votes.

There wasn't time to take some big stand on it where we'd end up looking like losers when we had to give it up.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
57. Johnson didn't. He tried and didn't.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:13 PM
Jan 2015

I mean, literally, he tried to establish Medicare as a universal program and couldn't, even with majorities that Obama could only dream of, and Republicans who were willing to vote with him.

So, no, we know Johnson couldn't because he tried and wasn't able to.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
90. That does not answer my point.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 03:36 PM
Jan 2015

If we had Obama's back and supported him more strongly, we could have kept Congress blue or made it bluer and by now we might have a public option.

The continual claiming Obama is personally not as good as LBJ is a dumb point. LBJ is long dead. He was white in a time when white men had unfair power, too, so the comparison is never a fair one.

Times are different now. Bullying is no longer admired and does not work. Use of LBJ to put down Obama is execrable.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
98. Could you imagine the press conference(s) called ...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 05:54 PM
Jan 2015

the first time, President Obama did anything approaching LBJ's arm-twisting?

Yes, it is truly a different day, politically and for politicians.

Response to treestar (Reply #46)

edhopper

(33,575 posts)
123. The Democrats
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 10:25 AM
Jan 2015

are the minority Party in the Senate.

All the Dems are minority Senators.

The GOP are majority Senators.

Therefore the GOP can keep Dem Bills from making it out of committee.

Jeez yourself.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
124. Clueless.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 09:37 PM
Jan 2015

There are 12 democrats and 10 republicans. Sanders is the leader. He will have more power than he has ever had.

edhopper

(33,575 posts)
128. I didn't mean it that way
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 10:53 PM
Jan 2015

I was explaining why Sanders isn't in the same situation Obama and why hedoe get some responsibility for things.

Wall Street prosecutions is another area he gets some blame for.

A minority Senator is not the same.

on point

(2,506 posts)
29. Unlike Obama, Sanders is not proposing something against the Dems and will fight for it
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:40 PM
Jan 2015

Obama's problem is he proposes bad things that he doesn't have to (like chained CPI or TPP), or caves immediately in negotiations with the repukes, or doesn't veto bad things he should.

Sanders proposes and goes the distance, even if he loses.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
99. I'm pretty sure ...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:02 PM
Jan 2015

President Obama has put forth Jobs Initiatives.

Weigh what was gained through President Obama's "caving", versus what would have been lost had he not "caved." (Note: I do not see taking what can be got, "caving" ... I do, however, view vanity/ego statuses, as stupid)

Please list the "bad legislation" that President Obama should have vetoed. Thank you.

on point

(2,506 posts)
130. But he sits at the table and puts chained CPI, TPP and other crappy proposals on it
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 11:28 PM
Jan 2015

Obama doesn't get a pass from me on his horrible proposals

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
67. Interesting how you have to interpret the OP's point. But I think you are right, he is trying to be
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:21 PM
Jan 2015

tricky and insinuate that people here give more respect to Sen Sanders than the President. Not sure why he can't come right out and say it in lieu of the insinuations. And I think you are exaggerating the "constant claim here".

I do remember a claim by progressive back in 2011 that the President wasn't trying hard enough to close Gitmo. But now those that are applauding his going the extra mile (fighting harder for) now, don't see the irony.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
69. It hadn't occured to me that it wouldn't be clear: I'm irritated at a double standard on DU
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:23 PM
Jan 2015

I am predicting, confidently, that

1. Sanders's jobs bill won't get any farther than Obama's past six have, and
2. Sanders will not face the criticism for that failure here like Obama has, despite actually having a vote in the committee and the Senate, which Obama doesn't.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
77. It isn't a double standard. The President has disappointed the progressive wing
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:34 PM
Jan 2015

quite a few times. His soft-sell on torture crimes, his secret TPP, his siding with the NSA/CIA Security State, Arne Duncan, etc.

You OP was quite clear to me that you are upset that Sen Sanders gets more respect than the President. Your insinuations are clear.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
103. Unless you are saying that "respect" means...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:12 PM
Jan 2015

giving a pass for, what you would/have previously criticized ... what we have here is a plain old double standard.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
100. Yes ... I do have, fairly good, reading comprehension skills/ability ...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:05 PM
Jan 2015

especially, when the context is obvious.

Response to Recursion (Reply #26)

treestar

(82,383 posts)
45. Why can't he motivate his fellow Senators?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:57 PM
Jan 2015

That's Presidency-obsession. The POTUS has to do it all with no help, even where it could easily be given.

Response to Recursion (Original post)

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
5. Of course he will. Anything to make him look bad as a candidate.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:48 AM
Jan 2015

Here is a remark - from YOU - in the thread about this bill, yesterday -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6037999

Of course he isn't trying to get this passed. He's grandstanding.

Just like his introducing single payer every single year. There's nothing wrong with that in particular, but it doesn't actually do anything.


So, I find your question a little odd.

Autumn

(45,064 posts)
12. Interesting. I'm going to delete my earlier comment in this thread and trash
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:14 AM
Jan 2015

it. Thanks for the post.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
25. Obama has pushed a similar jobs bill for six years now
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:22 PM
Jan 2015

Its failure has been blamed, by many on DU, on his unwillingness to "fight" for it. So, I'm curious if the same criticism will be leveled at Sanders, and if not, why not?

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
27. For one thing, Sanders does not have the bully pulpit or the executive powers of the president.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:35 PM
Jan 2015

Also, I believe the TPP has some provisions against specifically hiring Americans and/or buying American goods and materials, and promotes sending jobs offshore - so a politician who is pushing the TPP does not, somehow, seem as sincere as a politician who is against the TPP.

Bernie Sanders has always seemed to be a fighter to me. And seems to operate with a bit more transparency than Obama. So, we shall see. Never hurts to keep submitting bills like this, either, keeps the issues front and center.
Maybe Obama should ask Jamie Dimon to whip votes for his jobs bill.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
28. Really?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:36 PM
Jan 2015
I believe the TPP has some provisions against specifically hiring Americans and/or buying American goods and materials, and promotes sending jobs offshore

Do you? Why?

Bernie Sanders has always seemed to be a fighter to me.

Why?

And seems to operate with a bit more transparency than Obama.

Who are his five largest campaign donors?
 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
33. You know, I get it that you do not like Bernie, or do not care for his popularity, or perhaps
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:46 PM
Jan 2015

do not care for anyone to challenge Hillary or the TPP, or whatever. You will not change anyone's mind about who they support, and it just may be that there will be other candidates who are Not Hillary, and are Progressive/liberal, will show up and grab some of Bernie's supporters. Nt a personality contest.

Anyway, I believe that all contracts over a certain amount must be open globally.

http://www.citizen.org/Page.aspx?pid=5414

The procurement chapter in the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) would require that all firms operating in any signatory country be provided equal access as domestic firms to U.S. government procurement contracts over a certain dollar threshold. To implement this "national treatment" requirement, the U.S. would agree to waive Buy American procurement policies for all of the firms operating in the TPP countries.

Some corporate TPP proponents argue that this is good for America because these rules would apply to all signatory countries, so U.S. firms would be able to bid on procurements contracts in other countries on a national treatment basis. The notion that new access for some U.S. companies to bid on contracts in the TPP countries is a good trade-off for waiving Buy American preferences on U.S. procurement is ridiculous: Taking even the most favorable cut on other countries' markets, the total U.S. procurement market is about twice the size of the combined procurement market of all other TPP negotiating parties: Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore and Vietnam.


I don't think non-American firms who get contracts will necessarily be hiring Americans.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
35. Then you don't get much about me, because I do like Sanders
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:47 PM
Jan 2015

The procurement clause applies to government contracts, not the private sector. And it will surprise me if that clause passes.

 

djean111

(14,255 posts)
39. Which clause - the one in the TPP? Because if Obama gets his Fast Track, there will be no clauses
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:52 PM
Jan 2015

cut out, it is all or nothing, no exclusions, no additions, just an up and down vote.
An infrastructure jobs bill would seem to be a government contract sort of thing, I would think.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
120. Obama has never had a budget passed. Yet he gets shit on.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 03:43 AM
Jan 2015

It's always been continuing resolutions.

Obama's introduced budgets were the most progressive budgets since I'd say FDR.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
36. One thing it does do is highlight what the people want and then shows how the Rs voted on it. I
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:49 PM
Jan 2015

said yesterday that this is the first challenge to our new rulers. Here is what the people want now what are you Rs going to do about it.

The Rs understand that if it does not pass they will be held accountable.

tblue

(16,350 posts)
83. Ick. Very telling.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:55 PM
Jan 2015

I Bernie Sanders precisely because he is consistent and always fights for exactly the right thing. Integrity is precious, especially in this day and age.

MADem

(135,425 posts)
6. No--he will be a victim of the "PTB."
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:51 AM
Jan 2015

Because that's how it's framed in this neck of the woods these days.

upaloopa

(11,417 posts)
7. Tell me how his bill will pass in a repub congress?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 10:58 AM
Jan 2015

First you need to show us how his bill can pass. If not the question is mute.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
8. There's a reason he waited until Reid wasn't majority leader
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:01 AM
Jan 2015

I think it's a great bill. I think it would be awesome if it passed. I also think Sanders has no illusions about its passing, any more than I do.

JonLP24

(29,322 posts)
11. Wouldn't that have something to do with his new position on the
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:12 AM
Jan 2015

Senate Budget Committee?

Of course he doesn't have illusions but that doesn't stop every other Senator from sponsoring legislation that fails to become law and this is a Senator that actually got a bill to become law in 2013.

On edit - He has sponsored legislation infrastructure jobs bills while Reid was Majority leader but you can also find examples here at DU of people doing the "Why isn't his legislation passing?" game.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
56. Sanders is very good at amendments -- his FQHC amendment to PPACA was brilliant
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:12 PM
Jan 2015

and one of the better parts of the law.

I just want to be clear, again, that I'm tweaking DU, not Sanders.

joshcryer

(62,270 posts)
121. Well, he's on the Budget Committee.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 03:44 AM
Jan 2015

That gives him a bit more power.

But yeah, Sanders isn't known for fighting for legislation and getting people to co-sponser.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
44. That's an "excuse"
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:56 PM
Jan 2015

At least it is when President Obama can't get a bill like that out of a Republican Congress.

GoneFishin

(5,217 posts)
10. No. Sanders doesn't pretend to support causes to trick his base, then undermine
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:06 AM
Jan 2015

those same causes through his contrary actions.

QC

(26,371 posts)
32. Bingo. Here's the answer.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:46 PM
Jan 2015

If Sanders pretends publicly to support his bill but privately undermines it, then he will deserve criticism.

 

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)
59. Why insinuate via question instead of spitting out what you think?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jan 2015

If you think that Sen Sanders is trying to do something, why don't you present your case in lieu of the tricky (?) questions?

QC

(26,371 posts)
64. JAQing off is the term, I think.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:17 PM
Jan 2015
Just Asking Questions.

It's a popular strategy among those who don't want to commit themselves to a position but do want to provoke others.

There's also a term for those whose participation in a forum is intended solely to provoke and antagonize other participants, but we're not allowed to say it here.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
65. I don't think there's much doubt what he's doing: making a good point
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:19 PM
Jan 2015

Offering sensible legislation that would help people if it passed.

It won't pass.

I'm predicting a double standard in DU's response to Sanders's bill not passing and Obama's jobs bill proposal not passing.

QC

(26,371 posts)
70. Obviously because he's a meaniebutt and a poopiehead
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:23 PM
Jan 2015

and wants to make the president look bad.

Or it could be because he's the ranking minority member of a relevant committee now.

Or it could be because he believes that total teabagger control of the Congress makes it more important than ever before to put forth an alternative economic/social vision.

There are many possibilities. Perhaps you could share your own take on the issue, rather than engage in this coy wink-wink-nudge-nudge business that's nowhere near as clever as you imagine it to be.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
71. Sigh. This is about DU, not Sanders
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jan 2015

I imagine a lot of ranking members will put forward good bills now.

My point is that the failure of Obama's legislative initiatives are blamed here on the idea that Obama didn't "fight" for them (whatever that means). I am predicting that the failure of Sanders's jobs bill will not be blamed here on Sanders's not "fighting".

kentuck

(111,082 posts)
13. There is the possible and there is the improbable...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:17 AM
Jan 2015

...and there is the impossible. The fight should be only for the possible.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
15. There's times when introducing a "show" bill that can't pass is exactly the right thing to do
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:21 AM
Jan 2015

This is probably one of them. I want to make clear I'm not criticizing Sanders here.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
50. Agreed. If the Rs do not act in the best interest of the nation then we should continue to introduce
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:03 PM
Jan 2015

bills that show the country that we at least would if we could. This is not a new way to point out the difference between the two parties. We want jobs they do not. The only way they can change that is to vote for the bill.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
105. This is not making a "stand" ...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:24 PM
Jan 2015

it's making a "statement" ... the difference being, one is a line not to be crossed, the other is a line that produces benefit, if crossed.

The former is tactical; the latter, is strategic.

aikoaiko

(34,169 posts)
14. My concern isn't his effort -- its his effectiveness.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:18 AM
Jan 2015

While I like the political ground he stakes out, I want to see him develop followship before I'll have confidence in a Sanders presidential run.

SidDithers

(44,228 posts)
17. No. Sanders is teflon at DU...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:22 AM
Jan 2015

If Sanders' Jobs Bill doesn't pass, it will somehow be Obama's fault.

Sid

treestar

(82,383 posts)
42. +1
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:55 PM
Jan 2015

Obama should have written the bill and fought for it to start - and should not have expected any help from Bernie or Liz!!!!!!



As long as Bernie or Liz are not President, no one can ever disprove the assertion that they would have been real leaders and gotten Congress to follow!!!! After all, what we really need in a Congress is that they follow the President. The rest of us can criticize him but Congress should be fawning BOGGERs.



 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
19. I can tell if a person has fought even if they fail. Can't you?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:25 AM
Jan 2015

Example, all of the politicians who have sputtered out their intolerant views toward LGBT people over the years tried really hard and yet they failed. All of the 'I'm a Christian, God is in the mix, we are allowed to discriminate' people lost. Their ideas lost. But we remember how hard the moderate centrists and conservatives fought and spewed and cursed us, we remember the hate preachers and the declarations of sanctity.
They fought and they lost. 'Only civil unions are possible'. They also fought and they also lost. We remember them too.

F4lconF16

(3,747 posts)
22. +1, well said
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:30 AM
Jan 2015

It is clear when someone fights for something, and loses despite doing everything they could.

It is also clear when someone doesn't fight, and loses.

It's not that difficult to tell the difference.

JanMichael

(24,885 posts)
37. Very good point. Fighting and losing is much better than just talk.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:50 PM
Jan 2015

It is the old "better killed on my feet than live on my knees" quote that many have used.

You can usually tell when a fight was had and lost as opposed to no real fight ever taking place.

Weirdly I just defended the idiots that ran the NC marriage vote to keep marriage limited. They did fight a losing cause and have obviously lost but at least their supporters know that they fought for them regardless of their loss. Big difference there.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
107. Well ...
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:31 PM
Jan 2015
Fighting and losing is much better than just talk.


Only in prison and on the school yard ... losing in politics is a loss that diminishes the ability to fight and win later.

Bonobo

(29,257 posts)
21. Not just that. Next they'll whip out the "narcissist" attack.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 11:28 AM
Jan 2015

That is invariably what is said about strong and independent people. Narcissists trying to "stay relevant". God, why am I still here? I feel like Methuselah sometimes.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
34. One Senator has more say in any law than the President
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:46 PM
Jan 2015

So, if the failure of Obama's jobs bill is because he didn't "fight" hard enough, wouldn't the failure of Sanders' bill reflect even more badly on him?

treestar

(82,383 posts)
40. + 900000000000
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 01:52 PM
Jan 2015


But this won't happen. Bernie is a TRUE LEADER. He will lead those Republicans and Blue Dog Democrats down the right path!!!! With Elizabeth Warren bringing up the rear!

You'll get the usual claim that he is not President, and that is the only powerful position in our government.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
87. There should be a place on his dot/gov page with the proposed bill listed
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 03:20 PM
Jan 2015

Some bills will have several supporters names listed (even R names sometimes, lol!), other bills will have very little support. Try a search with the bills name/number listed and you may find it easier.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
52. My question is how many other senators has he contacted to get his bill passed?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:05 PM
Jan 2015

Obama has tried for infrastructure repair and he did not receive a bill on his desk to sign so if asking for a bill is fighting hard enough is good enough for Bernie then it is good enough for Obama.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
92. you can go to any senators DOTgov website & see all the bills they proposed and the progress on them
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 04:27 PM
Jan 2015

You can read how many times the bill has been presented for debate/discussion on the floor.

Most of the bills & riders added to bills never get public 'news' coverage. I'm not sure but I think it's Congress (Boehners gang) who keep the infrastructure repair bill off the presidents desk. They know he will sign it.

We have the worse Congress in history, they don't care that shelving bills means harm to Americans and our economy.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
93. This site does not tell me how many senators he has contacted nor ones he has
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 05:11 PM
Jan 2015

Plans to contact. This is a problem, bills gets sponsored, they go to a committee and die there, those who sponsor them don't care enough to push the bill through the committee and if the bill gets out of committee they don't fight to get it passed. Yes this has been the worst congress ever and nothing to get bills passed. Sponsoring a bill is small compared to getting it passed, this us the fight.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
94. This site? you mean DU? many more bills die then ones that pass, its the way it is.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 05:21 PM
Jan 2015

But sometimes they do pass if there is 'public pressure' and that's letters, emails and calls to your reps. They keep track of citizen contacts and tallys count for something. That's what Obama meant when he said "Make me"

One issue dear to my heart took a couple years of 'public pressure'. Thousands of contact to our gov. officials. I even 'nagged' in a nice way President O. on the white house 'contact' webmail. Then Biden met face to face and talked with a couple from my group. Biden got the issue in a bill early last year as a 'rider'. And it passed!

Also like to think I had a small hand in finally getting rid of Salazar. That took 6+ years to get him to resign his perch.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)
104. The site you supplied in post #92.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:23 PM
Jan 2015

Bernie needs to talk to other senators and ask them to support his bill. If he is fighting to support the working people then he needs to be pushing his bill and get the votes to get the bill passed. Senators needs to promote their bills, get them through committees, make deals with other senators to work with them on bills they may sponsor, it is working together if he is serious about getting the infrastructure repair.

phantom power

(25,966 posts)
58. I think conservative politicians have a better understanding of the role of "impossible" bills
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:13 PM
Jan 2015

I get the sense (based on the use of the term Green-Lantern) that when people such as myself say "Obama should advocate more liberal policy X" that other people interpret that as "we want him to advocate liberal policy X because we think that will make it pass." I can only speak for myself, but my thinking is more like: "Obama should advocate liberal policy X because such advocacy moves the Overton window back toward the left, over time"

The Conservatives get this. Back in the 70s and 80s they advocated all kinds of stuff that didn't fly, but they never quit either. Now, 40 years later, their political philosophies are ascendant.

I like to see people such as Sanders, or Warren, or Obama, advocating liberal policies not because I think it will magically make them happen (green-lantern style), but because that is what has to happen to start moving the Overton window back from the conservative abyss.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
61. I agree, which is why I'm glad he's introducing the bill
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:15 PM
Jan 2015

This is me being irritated at DU, not at Sanders.

onecaliberal

(32,831 posts)
60. First he is on teevee constantly fighting
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:14 PM
Jan 2015

To get his message out. He is trying to educate people. I don't see many others doing that. You are trying to compare apples to oranges.
In case you weren't paying attention democrats ran away from the positive things POTUS had done during the last election cycle. They weren't defending their policy. Bernie stands for something, for the people. Always. He isn't for these fucking trade deals or nominating walls streeters to regulate wall street. He isn't for cutting pension or social security or unemployment benefits. He fights for vets and students.

dawg

(10,624 posts)
62. It depends. Will he actually introduce the bill?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:15 PM
Jan 2015

Or will he just blather on about how it wouldn't have passed anyway?

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
63. Seems like a safe bet to me he will
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:16 PM
Jan 2015

He's ranking member and bills like this are what being ranking member is about.

dawg

(10,624 posts)
66. In that case, he's doing what he's supposed to do.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:20 PM
Jan 2015

Most liberals don't blame Democratic politicians for losing votes in Washington. We blame them for not even trying.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
68. I agree. Now, Obama has proposed a jobs bill every session for the past six years
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:21 PM
Jan 2015

Will Sanders face the same attacks on DU about "not trying" that Obama has, when his bill fails like Obama's have?

dawg

(10,624 posts)
72. No. He'll be criticized for being so "unrealistic" and "impractical".
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:25 PM
Jan 2015

People will say that the American people would never vote for someone so "radical" to be their President, despite the fact that opinion polls consistently show that voters' opinions are much closer to Sanders on domestic issues than they are to the "centrists" the party keeps insisting upon.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
73. If there was a Democratic majority in the House and Senate, your
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:27 PM
Jan 2015

question would be reasonable and valid.

There is a republican RW extremist majority in the House and Senate, which you already know.

Which leads us to wonder why you would post such an apparently senseless, unreasonable question.

What is your agenda here?

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
75. Well, in this thread my agenda is needling some DUers for a pretty silly double standard
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jan 2015

If Obama's jobs bills have failed because he, apparently, didn't "fight" hard enough, I'm saying it's hypocritical to not similarly attack Sanders should his bill fail, since people seem to think "fighting" is what gets bills passed.

Zorra

(27,670 posts)
88. Well, neither Obama nor Bernie are LBJ, and times have changed; and many Democratic legislators
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 03:30 PM
Jan 2015

are corporate property. Most people recognize when someone does the right thing, even if it is largely symbolic.

So over the past six years, even with large Democratic majorities, it has been impossible to pass any necessary progressive legislation that goes against the wishes of the financial centers.

During the first two years of the Obama administration, Democratic legislators could be accused of not fighting hard enough for constructive, effective progressive legislation if it was clear they were not supporting it and promoting it in earnest, at least making a sincere effort.

The ineffectiveness of the Obama administration and large Democratic majorities in getting critical progressive legislation passed led to the awful situation we are in now, with fascists having large majorities in both the House and Senate.

Through their ineffectiveness during the first two years of the Obama administration, Democrats either deliberately or foolishly lost all the political capital they had gained in the 2008 elections. water under the bridge, yes, but it happened and many people lost faith in the Democratic party and we will continue to pay for Democrat's squandering our capital for generations if, not forever.

Now, unfortunately the Democratic Party is basically done. Stick a fork in it. It created a hopeless situation for America during those first two years of the Obama administration, and the best that real Democrats can hope for now is a few necessary changes in the social aspects of life in America, clever Executive Orders, and a busy and effective veto pen in the Oval Office.

For anything else, mass non-violent revolution is the only way to regain any semblance of democracy in America.

I support Bernie Sanders for President. But I know that the 1% will never allow him to be nominated for POTUS, let alone become President, even if elected. I know they already have their candidate groomed and ready to go for the election. They don't really care who wins, as long as they don't try to go against their global financial affairs

They wouldn't even allow Al Gore become POTUS, even after he was elected, so obviously, they're not going to let a real Democrat (I know, he's an independent) like Bernie near the White House.

It's all bullshit; the only reason I'm even here supporting the Democratic party is because Democrats are generally much better than republicans. So, as part of my microscopic capacity to try to bring about constructive change, I am making a sincere effort to do promote Democrats doing the right thing, even if it has become largely a symbolic gesture.

So what am I going to do? Obviously, I need to do everything in my power politically to ensure that Jeb Bush does not become President. So I'll eventually have to support Democratic Corporate Candidate "X" in order to do what I can to prevent another deadly fascist from becoming the Commander in Chief of the US.

I really don't like not ever having any real options in my choices for who I permit to govern me. I have no doubt whatsoever that the only way can institute democracy and bring about change for the 99% is mass non-violent revolution.

And there ain't much hope of that happening either, so long as people continue to sit, hypnotized and homogenized to the point of insipid, in front of their much beloved television.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
91. bingo
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 03:38 PM
Jan 2015

"fighting" is never really defined. It's this dumb macho sounding bit that is truly meaningless.

OnionPatch

(6,169 posts)
74. Sanders is consistent and reliably speaks out for what he stands for.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:31 PM
Jan 2015

He doesn't say one thing and then do the other. He doesn't stand for one thing in front of one group of people and then allude to the opposite in front of another. I can't say the same for most politicians, so no, I personally wouldn't accuse him of not fighting hard enough. I KNOW what he stands for and how hard he fights, which is why I love him and probably why so many other people do.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
76. How do you know he "fights hard"?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:32 PM
Jan 2015

What does that phrase mean? How does a politician "fight"? (Short of caning-of-Charles-Sumner stuff, which I hope isn't what people are advocating.)

OnionPatch

(6,169 posts)
80. Well, it wasn't my phrase.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:41 PM
Jan 2015

But I assume for a politician it means they are consistent and reliable about where they stand and vocal about the issues they care about. Fighting hard would be the opposite of merely giving lip service.

BillZBubb

(10,650 posts)
79. What a juvenile question.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:37 PM
Jan 2015

He'll fight for it as hard as he can as a single Senator with no special clout.

Your disingenuous attempt to compare his capabilities to that of a president is laughable.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
81. Gee I wonder that too.. You know what I don't wonder?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:43 PM
Jan 2015

I don't wonder whether Obama will sign a bill that says if Wall Street loses a bunch of money in risky derivatives they can rob the taxpayers to get it back. I mean no one would do anything like that to us after what Wall Street did in 2008 right?

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
82. Are you under the mistaken impression that the FDIC receives taxpayer money?
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 02:54 PM
Jan 2015

A lot of people here seem to be.

The FDIC is funded by fees from banks.

SomethingFishy

(4,876 posts)
85. No I'm under the impression that the FDIC is supposed to be insurance for my money..
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 03:00 PM
Jan 2015

not for Wall Streets failed investments.

I'm under the impression that I already bailed Wall Street out, yes they played risky games and I ENDED UP PAYING FOR IT. While I can't afford my wives medications assholes are partying on my fucking dime. Democrats and Republicans not only allowed this to happen but passed a bill so that it can happen all over again, legally. If you want to stand up for that well, you just made the ignore list. Buh Bye.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
86. Derivatives are not being insured by the FDIC
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 03:11 PM
Jan 2015

If Bank of America buys some hedges that go south and is in debt for a trillion dollars, the FDIC will not bail that out. The FDIC will bail out the insured deposits in the retail checking accounts. And it won't cost the taxpayers anything.

I'm under the impression that I already bailed Wall Street out, yes they played risky games and I ENDED UP PAYING FOR IT.

No, you didn't. The government made money on TARP.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
95. I know this is really Meta style snark, but consider this. The US Congress has yet to pass ENDA, the
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 05:27 PM
Jan 2015

Employee Non Discrimination Act. Since 1994, every Congress but the 109th has failed to get it passed both chambers. The first form of the bill, called the Equality Act, was introduced in 1974 and it of course did not pass and did not pass in several subsequent attempts in later Congresses. This is a process started by Bella Abzug and Ed Koch in the House, both of them are dead and the process has not yet completed.
Each person who has sponsored, advanced, fought for or even voted for these bills did the right thing while those who stood by or even voted against them did the wrong thing and are on record as having done so.
Only an idiot would say that Bell Abzug did not fight hard enough because a bill she was right to put forward was rejected by people who were wrong to do so.
And only a fool would look at a legislative body that can take decades to resolve a simple employment discrimination injustice and suggest not starting the ball rolling as soon as possible on anything we want to do at any time in the future. Let them vote it down until the bridges start falling. But make them vote it down. Don't not introduce an idea because they won't like it. That is moderate centrist nonsense.

Sunlei

(22,651 posts)
96. I always wish there was someway for President O to chain congress to their chairs,
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 05:39 PM
Jan 2015

No days off until all their work is done.

When Pres. O took office they had windows XP in the white house and our DOI used papermaps! Our Veterans had paper files medical records, some files were 2 feet thick.

He has done so much to 'upgrade' everything but we still have a long way to go. This worse Congress in history has not helped at all. I agreed when President Obama called them 'Selfish and Sloths'.

Warpy

(111,253 posts)
102. Nobody who knows how much the Republicans despise everybody on Main Street.
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:12 PM
Jan 2015

People on Main Street are just stupid marks to them, people they con votes out of every couple of years so the GOP can keep on stealing them blind.

 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
106. Are you kidding me? The Authoritarian types will be crucifying him for at least 2 weeks!
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 06:26 PM
Jan 2015

He is a scary anti-Wall Street SOCIALIST! Authoritarian/Turd Way types are just as scared of that word as hardcore repukes. He will be lambasted by those that hate anything but the status quo.

So now "fighting hard" for something is the new speak for doing your fucking job? Pathetic...a few days into 2015 and already with the propaganda. It seems to never end.

I think all politicians fight like hell to get what they want...good or bad for the nation. They all have an agenda, some even pretend it is for 'the people'. Even dumber ones believe it.

TheKentuckian

(25,023 posts)
114. Logically it depends on the effort even if it passes ie the bill passed despite being essentially
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 07:59 PM
Jan 2015

abandoned by it's original author.

I'm not sure when it was decided that anyone's effort was being measured by passage, making me wonder why the assumption is baked into the cake of the question.
I've been following politics a while, I've not noticed any widespread acceptance of such a school of thought except from corporate conservatives lamely attempting to poke fun at the liberals they stymie and frustrate while feigning solidarity and as a weirdly desperate defense for advancing bad legislation ie "it isn't law so that proves it was never really on the agenda" by similar or the same folks.

Is the framing of the question an indicator of your own school of thought and if not then why assume it is motivating anyone else's?

Cha

(297,167 posts)
115. I know the President fought hard for his JOBS BILL all over the country..
Sun Jan 4, 2015, 08:50 PM
Jan 2015


I would never accuse either one of them of not "fighting hard enough".. that would be a silly lie.

Recursion

(56,582 posts)
135. That's a separate question, isn't it?
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 01:24 AM
Jan 2015

I asked what do you see that convinces you he "fights"? (And by implication I'm asking what "fight" means to you.)

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