Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
34 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
"Not-a-tea-party, a-confederate-party" (Original Post) blackspade Jan 2015 OP
As my father always said JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #1
Or at least tried and jailed... blackspade Jan 2015 #2
You nailed it! JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #3
The book "Race and Reunion" thucythucy Jan 2015 #6
Excellent post! First Speaker Jan 2015 #12
Lincoln was murdered by more than just an avowed racist Art_from_Ark Jan 2015 #15
I agree with everything you said. blackspade Jan 2015 #18
Traitors DashOneBravo Jan 2015 #14
That stuck in his craw too JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #16
I agree DashOneBravo Jan 2015 #17
Same here. blackspade Jan 2015 #19
Get rid of them DashOneBravo Jan 2015 #32
We have a guy four houses down JustAnotherGen Jan 2015 #25
blech blackspade Jan 2015 #33
IMO, we are not "The United States of America" anymore. The country is split North vs South again. AlinPA Jan 2015 #4
Not really North or South anymore.... blackspade Jan 2015 #20
"The South is a place, but the Confederacy is a worldview." phantom power Jan 2015 #28
thank you for pointing that out and with that, as a southerner who has both slaves and slave owners Tuesday Afternoon Jan 2015 #29
That is a most excellent read. Skidmore Jan 2015 #5
Your welcome. blackspade Jan 2015 #21
Wow, definitely worth a read. Pacifist Patriot Jan 2015 #7
K&R Cali_Democrat Jan 2015 #8
Very interesting cp Jan 2015 #9
Welcome to DU, cp! calimary Jan 2015 #11
Kick for later.. mahalo blackspade Cha Jan 2015 #10
Thanks! blackspade Jan 2015 #22
Kick again.. still haven't read it .. but I will! Cha Jan 2015 #23
K&R stage left Jan 2015 #13
Eye Opening! stage left Jan 2015 #24
Antebellum syndrome . orpupilofnature57 Jan 2015 #26
old quote: "The past isn't dead - it isn't even past." phantom power Jan 2015 #27
excellent hz_xlnc Jan 2015 #30
The Tea Party always HAS Been a Confederate Party 1step Jan 2015 #31
The national debt was not eliminated under Clinton. linuxman Jan 2015 #34

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
1. As my father always said
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 03:45 PM
Jan 2015

The Americans won the war - but the traitors won the peace.


Note the 'words' he would used to describe the sides . . . He was black, grew up in the Jim Crow Era, and had an amazing career in the military (Green Beret/Army Officer). He truly felt the South were traitors who hated America worse than the Nazis - and every single officer in the Confederate Country should have been hung.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
2. Or at least tried and jailed...
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 04:22 PM
Jan 2015

And barred from political office.

My personal opinion is that Northern industrialists colluded with Southern aristocrats to undermine reconstruction.
They too had little interest in seeing an insurgent black majority in the South making common cause with poor white workers in the North.

thucythucy

(7,986 posts)
6. The book "Race and Reunion"
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 05:01 PM
Jan 2015

by David Blight pretty much says that.

For about a half a decade after the end of the war there was some real progress--actual democratic elections in the south where men (though not women) of color could vote, black men elected to state offices, public schools established (for both emancipated slaves AND poor whites)... This was the era later slandered by revisionist right wing bullshit historians as "corrupt"--"carpetbaggers"-- the whole "Gone with the Wind" revisionist view of southern history. As if southern politics after 1870 has been devoid of corruption!

Even the progress that was made was undermined, almost from the beginning. The very first thing President Andrew Johnson did as president, immediately after Lincoln's assassination, was to take the lands of traitorous slave-owner aristocrats out of the jurisdiction of the Freedman's Bureau. Lincoln had wanted to confiscate all that land, divide it up amongst emancipated slaves and landless whites, thus giving blacks some degree of economic power, and poor whites a vested interest in the destruction of the slave owning oligarchy. This was the "Forty Acres and a Mule" program ridiculed by "Gone with the Wind" and "Birth of a Nation." In other words, "land reform."

There is this myth that Lincoln was for a "soft" peace, but what he seems to have meant by that was no retaliation against southern enlisted men. His preference in dealing with the leaders, as he said on at least one occasion, was that they go into exile. I certainly don't think he would have sat by, as president, and allowed a slave driving war criminal like Nathan Bedford Forrest to found the KKK, which is what happened after Lincoln's death.

Had there been a REAL restructuring of American society--for which there was at least the potential in 1865--this country would be in a whole different place. I've often thought that the murder of Abraham Lincoln--by an avowed white supremacist--was the single most pivotal event in American history. Not that other shit hasn't happened, or been tragic. But had Lincoln been able to serve another four years, I think our culture today might well be substantially different.

Just MHO.

First Speaker

(4,858 posts)
12. Excellent post!
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 06:20 PM
Jan 2015

...I agree. Lincoln in the White House from 1865-69 would have made us a different country. I don't know, given the endemic racism in the South *and* North in the 19th century, just how far Reconstruction would have gone, and how enduring it might have been. But Lincoln at the very least would have defended black Union veterans to his last breath. Had we a President who believed in something approaching equal rights, well--who knows? With his prestige and political sagacity, it might have been quite different.

Art_from_Ark

(27,247 posts)
15. Lincoln was murdered by more than just an avowed racist
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 08:39 PM
Jan 2015

I don't think the bigwigs in the Republican party were really interested in letting Lincoln survive past the end of the war. It's no coincidence, for example, that Lincoln's Secretary of War, Edwin Stanton, tried to set himself up as de facto President after Lincoln's assassination, going so far as to preside over the kangaroo court that tried and convicted the "conspirators" and hanged them without giving them a chance to say anything, and then getting Congress to pass a law that made it illegal for President Johnson to fire him. And of course, the administration that succeeded Johnson's, the Grant administration, ended up being the most corrupt administration in the US up to that time.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
18. I agree with everything you said.
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 12:10 AM
Jan 2015

The assassination is one of those tragic 'missed' opportunities in history that would have made the US a much better place for all of us.
The fact that after his death, Southern leaders like Lee, Davis, and the rest of the aristocracy were not divested of all rights and property made the Union 'victory' a sham.
That Northern industrialists saw Reconstruction as an example of what would eventually happen to them can not be over stated.
A Southern political block made up of freed slaves and working class whites would have been a huge challenge to the growing Victorian cultural hegemony that was taking root within the Union political and industrial classes at the end of the war.

JustAnotherGen

(31,688 posts)
16. That stuck in his craw too
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 08:42 PM
Jan 2015

It would be a symbolic thing - but a good thing to rename them for Presidents . . . But the folks waving rebel flags will get all up in arms at the horror of it.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
19. Same here.
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 12:13 AM
Jan 2015

The fact that these traitors have statues and monuments all over the South is fucking disgusting.
I still can't believe that the KKK and other 'white power' terrorist groups are allowed to even exist.

DashOneBravo

(2,679 posts)
32. Get rid of them
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 11:21 PM
Jan 2015

Every podunk town has one. The good news is that way of thinking is dying off. Hopefully they'll bulldoze them.

AlinPA

(15,071 posts)
4. IMO, we are not "The United States of America" anymore. The country is split North vs South again.
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 04:37 PM
Jan 2015

It feels different to me (I'm 77 years old) than when I was a young person. It's nearly hopeless- what a joke today with the media talking about congress working with the President on legislation.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
20. Not really North or South anymore....
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 12:18 AM
Jan 2015

As the article makes clear, the Confederate worldview and revisionist history has infected our national discourse from Texas to Alaska and Maine to Hawaii.
These neo-Confederates are everywhere, subverting voting rights, destroying civility, and attempting to reduce working class and poor people of every color and creed to indentured servitude.

They make me sick with loathing.

Tuesday Afternoon

(56,912 posts)
29. thank you for pointing that out and with that, as a southerner who has both slaves and slave owners
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 12:13 PM
Jan 2015

in my heritage, I am trashing this thread.

blackspade

(10,056 posts)
21. Your welcome.
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 12:21 AM
Jan 2015

I found it enlightening and infuriating in equal measure.

The comments section is priceless if you can stomach it.
Many underscore the clueless hatred that the Neo-Confederates have instilled into the fabric of uneducated white 'culture.'

calimary

(80,700 posts)
11. Welcome to DU, cp!
Reply to cp (Reply #9)
Mon Jan 5, 2015, 06:18 PM
Jan 2015

Glad you're here! It IS interesting, isn't it!? It makes some troublesome points about our nation. I find myself fascinated and bothered like hell to discover how much propaganda we've fed our children via their textbooks at school, over the generations. AND how much propaganda WE ate from many of those textbooks. What I remember from ages ago was how "the COMMMMMunists" were always pointed to as the Great Evil of the World. "The COMMMMunists" were the source of all evil and "the COMMMMMunists" were this and "the COMMMMMunists" were that. I was seven years old when I started noticing that, and wondering what it was about these "COMMMMMunists" that was so doggone bad. That part of it was never explained.

 

1step

(380 posts)
31. The Tea Party always HAS Been a Confederate Party
Tue Jan 6, 2015, 12:26 PM
Jan 2015

They woke up on the morning of Obama's inauguaration and "discovered" America had serious problems, like the shredding of the Constitution (Patriot Act onwards) and the national debt (which Clinton had eliminated but Bush exploded).

 

linuxman

(2,337 posts)
34. The national debt was not eliminated under Clinton.
Wed Jan 7, 2015, 12:29 AM
Jan 2015

Not by a long shot.

The last time the US was in the black was 1835.

Clinton had a budget surplus. Enormous difference.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»"Not-a-tea-party, a-...