General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo, I had breakfast with Howard Dean this morning
Just the two of us, no one around. All off the record, so no exact details except to say that half of what we discussed was personal stuff about our two families, a little bit about what it would take for him to actually run again, and that we should not assume ANYTHING about what we think is in the cards for the 2016 Democratic race. NOTHING. Just because we speculate about them, it REALLY ain't necessarily so.
Coming from Howard, I'd say that's advice to be taken seriously.
riversedge
(69,723 posts)read between the lines I would say you are saying Hilary is not running. ummm. I did say 'IF'!
DFW
(54,055 posts)I would take seriously, however, any comment that she truly is not at all decided or committed to a run, no matter what PACs are out there.
riversedge
(69,723 posts)that was an 'IF" Glad to had an opportunity to speak with Dean. I am envious.
roguevalley
(40,656 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)So, what did he have for breakfast? Bacon and eggs? Oatmeal? Juice?
DFW
(54,055 posts)He had smoked salmon, bread, fruit and coffee. He was there before I was, and had gotten into a conversation with the waitress. She was a single mother who was the daughter of Jamaican immigrants and had worked her way through school. Howard was so impressed that he left her a $40 tip on a $47 check (!!!).
MADem
(135,425 posts)OK, so what did you have, hmmmmmmm?
Did you order with a doctor in mind across the table...."I'll have the egg white and spinach omelet, please?" or did you throw caution to the winds and demand the Meat Lover's four egg omelet with extra cheese and a hollandaise topper? Oh, and a double bloody mary with that, please!!!
I don't live in a world of $47 breakfasts--I could take five people out for that kind of money! But I gotta hand it to Howard, when he lives large, he shares the wealth. A mighty good man! Good on him....I liked that guy, and I liked his wife, too!
DFW
(54,055 posts)Howard was there far longer than I was, and killed time chewing the fat with waitress and ordering a full breakfast.
This is midtown Manhattan, and he was looking for a place that had fresh, moderately healthy stuff that we wouldn't have to walk a mile for or wait an hour for (it's something like 3° out there minus the wind chill). Like me, he has nothing against sharing what wealth he has (how many people do you know that leave an 80% tip?) with people who live by the good graces of those they serve.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Of course, it was on a ten dollar breakfast, but that's what I had in small bills!
Anyone who has ever been in the food service game knows how hard it is--I paid my college tuition hauling heavy plates of steak and fish back in the dark ages, so I am generous to servers. That said, I don't think I've ever had a breakfast that high end, and probably never will!
I did have some smoked Scottish salmon in one of those preserve packs and a lemon in the frigo, though, and your post motivated me to make a brekkie of egg over, salmon and toast for those assembled--and it went over brilliantly! So, we had a bit of white tablecloth dining without the white tablecloth! Craving satisfied!!!
DFW
(54,055 posts)It was in a business part of midtown Manhattan in a place catering to people who work nearby. That's what stuff costs in that neighborhood, and the rent is probably unspeakably high.
In April my family and I had a Sunday brunch that had unlimited lobster, freshly made crèpes, fresh fruit, salad, fish, roast beef, 5 kinds of bread, 10 kinds of rolls and cake, olives, and about 20 other kinds of food I have since forgotten. Now THAT was a high-end breakfast. The price? $25.95 per person. In Manhattan, it would have probably cost $90 per person or more, but this was in Freeport, Maine. Of course, the salary levels in Freeport, Maine, are probably a third of what they are in Manhattan, too.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Now, if someone else was buying, I'd be groovin' on the food!
I'll stick to Metropolitan Ave. in Queens for eats when I'm in the NYC area--I can afford that neck o' the woods! But hey--I can live vicariously, just listening to your descriptions is almost as good as being there!
DFW
(54,055 posts)My daughter works for a department store at 39th and 5th. She had to work her way up the ladder with long hours and hard work, but she now finally earns enough to live in the neighborhood. Besides, there ARE places near here where the food is cheap. I like CHinese, and there is the Main Noodle House (or whatever the proper name is) at 38th St. on 6th avenue where a main course for lunch costs $8 and the portion is big enough (and good enough!) to feed two people. Of course, if it's 12° out with a stiff wind blowing, you do need to have the time and the stamina to get there. But the neighborhood is very mixed.
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)I am heartbroken. Imagine how many starving kids could eat with that kind of money. The life of the 1 percent are so out of touch. He could get a 5 dollar breakfast like the rest of us manage to do? This story makes me sad.
Neon Gods
(222 posts)Where I live that would get you coffee and dry toast in a restaurant.
eggplant
(3,893 posts)So this is bad because...?
If you are going to criticize Howard Dean for choosing to spend his money on the working class and help the economy, I'm not sure how much of a conversation can be had.
DFW
(54,055 posts)I usually can eat breakfast here for $5, too, but that's if I have the time to walk through the cold and find the right hole in the wall with rent control. NYC rents and sales taxes are plenty, and you pay to eat at a place that has that high a rent. There were plenty of normal mortals in the place, so don't hang a guilt trip on Howard for choosing it. Howard fought tooth and nail for single payer, so it's not like he's an enemy of the people. My daughter lives in Manhattan and makes a gross salary that would allow her to live like a queen back in Dallas, but barely allows her to scrape by in New York. Local taxes and the cost of living are sky high here. Like Bruce Hornsby sang, that's just the way it is.
PeteSelman
(1,508 posts)Heartbroken? Really? Over a breakfast?
Are people not allowed to enjoy anything? Or must we all wear burlap and eat gruel?
Come on.
villager
(26,001 posts)of not only 2016, but the next two years with a far-right Congress installed?
Again, not thinking in terms of "details you can't divulge," but wondering if anything about the general tenor was truly eye-opening?
DFW
(54,055 posts)But we all knew that already. He tossed out some names (both yes and no) for 2016, one of which I was surprised at. He'll let me say when the time comes, or else I'll confirm it if he goes public first.
mahina
(17,506 posts)in a very positive way.
From a Deaniac to the core, bring back the bat!
DFW
(54,055 posts)He would PREFER not to. He would consider it only under extreme circumstances. He will be 67 in November, although he is in GREAT shape and comes across as at least ten years younger. Judy is, as he puts it, a "homebody," and REALLY does not want to be First Lady. She wants to continue to be a physician in Vermont. He'll only get in if he feels that no one else who is capable is making a serious try for it. He told me in 2009 that he was too old for another run. What does that tell you about how he feels now?
bobGandolf
(871 posts)DFW
(54,055 posts)Although Pat Leahy is one of the good guys, too.
MADem
(135,425 posts)DFW
(54,055 posts)But they are both very much devoted to Vermont and its needs. Howard still gets back to Burlington as often as he can, and Judy rarely leaves the place.
Mopar151
(9,965 posts)bluesbassman
(19,310 posts)Howard made a great point, thanks for sharing that DFW.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,298 posts)Off the record is so frustrating!
How lucky for you to be able to just have breakfast with him.
DFW
(54,055 posts)He is still amazingly active (say he has "no full time job, but nine part-time jobs" . So when we do manage to hook up, we always have a LOT of catching up to do, and usually a lot has happened in the meantime.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)Motown_Johnny
(22,308 posts)I thought he was already on the record on this.
Maybe this means she isn't running and just wants to look like a king/queen maker.
Hmmm.....
Cha
(295,912 posts)MADem
(135,425 posts)"Hillary Clinton is by far the most qualified person in the United States to serve as President," Dean wrote in an op-ed in Politico Magazine. "If she runs, I will support her."
DFW
(54,055 posts)And he did so knowing full well that she is far from decided. It's not even clear that she wants to be king/queen-maker. She is still weighing the positives and negatives about a run. Howard did tell me something about her that I did not know, and found very encouraging. If she runs, he'll come out with it publicly. It's not anything that will affect her decision, though.
IggleDoer
(1,186 posts)Dean has essentially been denied running for higher office because he let out a "scream" years ago, that turned out to be modified by sound engineers. Yet, Steve Scalise keeps his upgraded job.
elleng
(130,149 posts)he's too much his own person. Same re: his relationship with the party leadership: They won't/wouldn't let him do it.
bobGandolf
(871 posts)IggleDoer
(1,186 posts)RW radio and TV still play the scream whenever they talk about him.
elleng
(130,149 posts)stupidicus
(2,570 posts)as soon as he declared on MSNBC back then that his first act as pres was gonna be to break it all up, his demise was easy to predict.
mahina
(17,506 posts)5 4 3 2 1 arrgh.
It was a hit, coordinated, and the media should be ashamed.
LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)It's a pretty tall tale that some conspiracy was formed -- mid speech -- to make him look bad.
Now, what happened after that as far as showing it over and over again is a different matter.
liberalmike27
(2,479 posts)In truth, his comment about "breaking the media into 100's of pieces," had more to do with the media "turn" on his campaign, than the "scream." It was just the final stab, and twisting of the knife, of the campaign started against him that night on Chris Mathews, when he mistakenly stepped on that third rail.
Remember about a week or two before the first primary, he was in first place, he said that, then the next day, literally the next day, tapes "surfaced" (that surely had been around all along) with him talking about how he hated the "Caucus system," Iowa was famous far. He had great points, you've got to hang around, you can't just vote, a lot of people won't vote. But they played that tape over and over, and slowly his ratings dropped from first, to third.
Then Iowa. The third place finish, the celebratory speech, the directional microphone that amplified the voice, but reduced the crowd noise, making it seem almost imperceptible, playing it a few thousand times. Deed done, Dean done, finished, back adequately stabbed.
My Dean group disintegrated that week, from about 100, back to the original 13 or so. I think that 13 were the ones who actually realized the media had manipulated, and destroyed him.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)arthritisR_US
(7,269 posts)AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)His 50 state strategy tore it up in 2008.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)Didn't his 50 State Strategy give us Lincoln and a bunch of other of those Blue Dogs that had to go?
Now I'm confused.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Hard to imagine these days, I understand.
But if the Party leadership gave Democrats cover to move left, rather than cover to move right, people like Lincoln would have behaved very differently.
Myrina
(12,296 posts)... so what's your point?
ALBliberal
(2,304 posts)Agony
(2,605 posts)just thinking about it puts a smile on my face
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)It's great to see someone with both moral principles and ambition on the scene.
onecent
(6,096 posts)all over him for a scream???? it was GREAT!!!!!!!!! I LOVED HEARING HIM ROAR AND BE EXCITED for what possibly could have been a run for him.
You were lucky to have breakfast with him. Wish I had been with you. lol
madokie
(51,076 posts)What a shoulder to be rubbing up against.
I'm a very much in need of counseling Deaniac myself. He had me at a low boil feeling so good about our country going forward. I could actually dream what can be.
Money machine took him away from us though, what a shame cause he would have made an excellent President. I'd still commit to him today if he was to run.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)How does he feel about the effort to destroy social security and medicare? How does he feel about all the excessive wasteful military spending?
blackcrow
(156 posts)I believe he's said before that he originally was not sure what the effect of the trade deals would be but that now he thinks they're terrible.
As to his views on SS and Medicare, have you been on Mars the last decade or two?
mountain grammy
(26,571 posts)and said I wish I was having breakfast with Howard Dean, and he said, boy I sure would like a chance to talk to that old boy (sometimes his Texas lingo sneaks in) and ask him what he thinks about the TPP.
Probably one of the best presidential candidates in our lifetime. I hope he's hopeful, because if he is, I am.
MADem
(135,425 posts)If so, I admire his intestinal fortitude!
Howard's comment today on the terrorism in France was that those terrorists were no more Muslim than he is--and I agree with him. Pity more of DU doesn't feel the same...
mountain grammy
(26,571 posts)and that would go for my husband, but always for Howard Dean
DFW
(54,055 posts)MSNBC is at 30 Rock, so he was only about 5 minutes away. I was about ten. He got there at 6:58 and had to wait for 2 minutes as they didn't open until 7 and it was a long, cold 2 minutes!
We were supposed to meet at 8, and I didn't get there until 7:45. Had I known he would be there at 7, I would have gotten there way earlier!
MADem
(135,425 posts)What did he have for breakfast? Coffee or tea? Juice? Eggs? Pancakes? Cereal? Oatmeal? Fruit? And if there was a meat on that plate, what was it? Sausage--links or patties? Bacon? Chipped beef? Soy bacon or sausage?
These are the burning questions of the hour!!!
OH WAIT--I see you answered that question above!!! That sounds like a very good breakfast--I may copy it (got up late today and I have some smoked salmon on hand...!).
yourout
(7,520 posts)The Wizard
(12,482 posts)Mopar151
(9,965 posts)An important part of a nutritious breakfast for the hard core......
MADem
(135,425 posts)cstanleytech
(26,080 posts)VanillaRhapsody
(21,115 posts)Gothmog
(143,999 posts)I am big fan of Governor Dean
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Can you share what he said about what it would take for him to consider it?
DFW
(54,055 posts)I'm exhausted!
DFW
(54,055 posts)Basically, Hillary would have to bow out, Biden and O'Malley would have to declare they're out, plus at least one other mystery guest would have to definitely say no. If he sees an empty playing field, leaving a real chance for a president Rand Paul (or some such disaster), he would get in, despite all the factors that he thinks are more than sufficient to keep him out of it.
DCBob
(24,689 posts)Thanks for this. I really admire Dr Dean he would be my dream candidate although unlikely in 2016.
MADem
(135,425 posts)I think it's unlikely, myself, but what do I know?
DFW
(54,055 posts)Not to say he's not a possibility, but I didn't bring him up, and, more to the point, neither did Howard.
pscot
(21,023 posts)if she ran. She seems fearless. The women could redefine the party. it appears pretty formless right now.
DFW
(54,055 posts)Lifelong Protester
(8,421 posts)I'd love to spend some time with Dr. Dean (although I don't know if I 'd have the brain power to have a great conversation with him!.) I think he's tops!
KingCharlemagne
(7,908 posts)take for him to throw his hat in the ring again?
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I hope so. I believed in him all the way and including the 50 state strategy.
I wish him well. I hope he hasn't lost touch with single payer and how badly we are going to fail in this country without it.
Huh
That was a change of subject matter I could use tonight after all the other crap. Anyway, I wish him well.
Laura PourMeADrink
(42,770 posts)Did you ask him if he or any of his advisers frequent DU?
DFW
(54,055 posts)I have also mentioned it to him before, but he doesn't follow blogs much except DFA-related ones.
lexington filly
(239 posts)blue neen
(12,306 posts)Oh, you are lucky, DFW!
SheilaT
(23,156 posts)I also met him several times at campaign events, enough so that he sort of recognized me after a while.
What's largely been forgotten is that he brought huge numbers of Democrats of all ages to activism, and those who rejected him have reaped the benefits. He's probably too old to run again (he and I are the same age) but I wish he'd be much more out there, representing the genuinely Democratic branch of the Democratic Party.
NBachers
(17,004 posts)madfloridian
(88,117 posts)It brings back old memories of the first and last time my late hubby and I were so deeply involved in politics. We were really naive enough to think we could make a difference, and who knows...maybe we made more of a difference than we realized.
I know our local DFA really stirred up the hornets' nest of DLC/Third Way Democrats around here. Our DFA was made up of Democrats, Greens, Independents, and Republicans. We were about the only activists for miles around.
I have since openly disagreed with Dean on some policies, especially education "reform" as it is wrongly called. But I still fondly remember the Dean Campaign days. After hubby died my kids were helping me organize. They instinctively knew their dad would not have wanted the campaign buttons, stickers, and such thrown out. So they kept it all.
I look back on it as a time that our party showed its true corporate colors. He was making too many question the war, and we were the fringe activists making waves.
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)DFW
(54,055 posts)His base was always popular, not top-centered. That's why so many people at the top (of both parties) were so terrified of him. God forbid we should get a president by popular acclaim instead of one that got the blessing of the PTB, right?
As we were talking yesterday, I was again reminded by just how unbelievably AWARE Howard is. He had/has his pulse on issues that matter to SO many people of modest to no means--how far does THAT get you in today's political landscape?
Mopar151
(9,965 posts)Or cannot f*^%$# stand..... (NASCAR fans reference = Richie Evans, Maynard Troyer) I suspect many of the wealthy get a lot of practice at this with their own families, from childhood on.
Hekate
(90,189 posts)Happy New Year.
IronLionZion
(45,259 posts)so yes, anything can happen. Surprise upsets happen all the time.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)that Dr. Dean's endorsement of Hillary is because he knows she's probably not running.
DFW
(54,055 posts)He definitely knows she has has not yet decided to run. And I left him off at her office! I think we can safely say that she cannot be counted as a candidate yet.
MADem
(135,425 posts)Her staff has put out that there will be a spring announcement, and spring is just around the corner. For someone not running, she's spending enough 'exploring' the concept, even without announcing an exploratory effort.
So, if she does run, and win, what will he be? Health and Human Services? VICE President (now that would be an interesting tick--she's got IL/AR covered, but she's really NY these days, and it would be a Northeast ticket--but hey, everyone said Clinton-Gore was crazy, and that worked....)? Something else?
He's got his future in mind, I'm sure. I hope it's bright!
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hillary-clinton-begins-weighing-details-of-a-2016-bid-with-a-spring-announcement-likely/2014/12/11/088bccac-80a5-11e4-9f38-95a187e4c1f7_story.html
...The strategy discussions provide further evidence that the former secretary of state and first lady is edging closer to another run for the presidency, after two years writing and promoting a memoir, giving paid speeches and strengthening ties with key Democratic interest groups. But rather than announce in January as she did in 2007 Clinton allies are increasingly working under the assumption that an official announcement will not come until spring....
The enforced separation now under discussion by Clinton and her aides would erect a clearer legal barrier between her and her unofficial campaign-in-waiting. It would put an end to the informal discussions now taking place between Clintons inner circle and operatives working for outside groups backing her.
Because Clinton is not a declared candidate for federal office, she and her advisers are allowed to communicate informally with groups such as Priorities USA Action, Ready for Hillary and American Bridge, whose Correct the Record project functions as a rapid-response operation on her behalf. If and when she announces her bid, however, Clintons campaign would not be able to share strategic information with allies outside the campaign and Democratic Party.
Another issue her aides are considering is a Federal Election Commission rule that requires a 120-day waiting period before an outside group can make an expenditure on a candidates behalf if they have hired a vendor or strategist who worked for the candidates campaign.
His endorsement was certainly full-throated, there's no ambiguity here:
https://www.readyforhillary.com/updates/howard-dean-im-ready-hillary
davidpdx
(22,000 posts)I honestly don't know if I could stop laughing before I got banned from DU.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Or in this case, perhaps we should call it a feinting couch.
AngryAmish
(25,704 posts)Breakfast burrito? I love breakfast burritos. Wishbone has a good one.
DFW
(54,055 posts)I just had smoked salmon, a croissant, hot tea with lemon and orange juice.
Autumn
(44,761 posts)About the 2016 race? I don't think Hillary will run. I sure would like to see him in a field of democrats in the debates though, him and my Bernie
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)I've always taken Dr. Dean's words seriously.
midnight
(26,624 posts)deaniac21
(6,747 posts)calimary
(80,699 posts)Other follow-up questions on a theme:
Do you plan on it? Are you considering it? Do you get a sense of how many of us need you back in that position again? Has anybody had the good sense and smarts to ask you to do it?
DAYUM I miss him in that leadership position! We sure didn't lose ground in the midterm election when HE was in charge. Hell, in 2006, we took back the House! We had Speaker Pelosi. Who remained in charge and got an awful lot accomplished - until DEBBIE's debacle in 2010.
DFW
(54,055 posts)DWS didn't take over until after that, not that either one did us much good!
KoKo
(84,711 posts)Is Hillary's Campaign assessing Bill's Problems since he left the Presidency?
Would she want that "Stuff" dragged up about why Chelsea had to Take Over the "Clinton Global Initiative" and his association with Doug Brand?
I can't imagine she wants all that "STUFF" dredged up which might be Howard's meetings with her. Will the American People and Democrats survive what could come out about those years after Bill left the Presidency. And....are they trying to figure out how to deal with Bill. Will he be the "First Man to the First Lady?" Or, will he be denied access to the White House?
No One ever answers about What Happens to Bill if Hillary is Elected.
That may be what the Dem Establishment is trying to work around. Dean as Hillary's VP would be an excellent STRATEGY.
But What about Bill? and the "STUFF/Baggage?"
Loved your report BTW!
DFW
(54,055 posts)I think Bill will wisely take a very low profile if Hillary runs (aside from a very rousing speech at the nominating convention), and an even lower one if she is elected. But that's only my gut feeling.
I don't see Howard as VP (although Joe Biden has given ample good example of the elder statesman as VP). But I'll say the same thing I said in December, 2008: HHS Secretary Howard Dean would not only be MY dream, but that of every American with inadequate or no health coverage. He won't get single payer right away, especially not with Republicans in control of at least one house of Congress, but he'll push for it to the point where the national debate over health care discusses nothing else, and awareness is hale the battle. The difference is that Hillary has no Rahm Emmanuel whispering in her ear to exclude Howard for her inner circle. She and Howard have known each other for MANY years, and he would be close to her if she were to be elected. Good news for all who don't want to see Hillary in the Oval Office, too: Howard is close to more potential 2016 presidents-elect than just Hillary.