A uniform is just an outfit. It does NOT “deserve respect”.

[riqster]

https://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2015/01/09/a-uniform-is-just-an-outfit-it-does-not-deserve-respect/

Zip at the link today.

Individual people EARN respect by their actions, not by the clothes they wear.

This writer has friends who are decorated war heroes (one of them damned near died on Iwo Jima). There are other people in uniform who have committed war crimes. Are they equally deserving of respect? Of course not.

There is a cop of Cranky acquaintance who literally saved a child’s life by shooting a man who had a gun pointed at the kid’s head (no kidding, it really happened. The man’s a legend, and deservedly so). There are other cops who have taken bribes or committed crimes. Are they equally deserving of respect? Oh, Hell, no.

In days of yore, there were people, attired like hippie freaks, who went around helping the poor and feeding the hungry. The Manson “family” dressed the same way. Again: equally deserving of respect? Oh, f***ing HELL, no.

So to all whiny-assed, bullying crybabies among the NYPD who are going “waaah” about not being respected: shut the f***ing f*** up, you f***ing f***wits. There are some damned good cops in that town who have earned respect, and who give respect. Guess what? They will get the respect they deserve.

And the bad cops will likewise get the respect THEY deserve. And not one bit more. The fabric that covers our bodies means little when compared to the actions of the humans who are covered by that cloth. A uniform, in and of itself, means exactly nothing.

[RedCappedBandit]

1. word

[riqster]

12. Thank you.

[napkinz]

2. spot on!

[riqster]

4. You find the best cartoons.

[TNNurse]

13. No respect for authority

AND no respect for the deceased by drawing attention to themselves. Selfish, attention seeking people at a funeral, that is low.

[B Calm]

3. I said once to my old boss you have to earn respect, not demand it.

I was close to retiring and there wasn't anything he could do to me.

[riqster]

10. Amazing how pissed off people can get when you say that, innit?

[H. Cromwell]

36. My Favorite is...

CREAM and SCUM both rise to the top.

[riqster]

52. Stealing.

[BlueCaliDem]

5. Excellent OP, riqster - as always.

This is exactly what I was taught: You don't demand and expect respect. You have to EARN it.

It's a concept that appears foreign to far too many of our taxpayer-funded police officers.

It appears that when they embraced the "To Protect and Serve" and painted it on their patrol cars, they had forgotten those last two words: "Our Own."

[riqster]

6. Thanks.

[SamKnause]

7. A uniform does not 'deserve' respect.

A person who is titled does not 'deserve' respect.

A person in a powerful position does not 'deserve' respect.

A wealthy person does not 'deserve' respect.

RESPECT is EARNED it should never be GIVEN because it is expected !!!!!!!!!

[riqster]

9. Indeed, those who "expect" it rarely seem worthy of it.

[Pacifist Patriot]

8. Nailed it.

[riqster]

11. Thank you.

[joeglow3]

14. Agreed. But then one must also not demand certain behavior just because someone is wearing one

Many here have said that the cops should be fired because they turned their backs on the mayor. However, they were off the clock and many are now saying uniforms are "just an outfit." Lets be consistent.

[riqster]

22. On or off the clock means little. When you suit up, you are representing your organization.

And when you wear civvies, you are still a member of it.

[joeglow3]

24. Just like teachers disrespecting their governor?

[riqster]

26. Again, respect is an individually-earned quality.

Positions and uniforms don't earn it. Actions do.

[joeglow3]

28. I agree. And free speech lets each party make that determination.

I am more speaking to the debate of the rights to protest without dear of getting fired.

[riqster]

30. That is a valid point, but not germane to the OP.

The OP did not suggest any penalty for the assholish NYPD cops for their behavior.

I just spoke to their spokesman's demands to respect the uniform.

[daleanime]

15. K&R....

[JayhawkSD]

16. I would say the uniform conveys a default of implied respect.

The uniform deserves respect, until the person wearing that uniform dishonors it, thereby illustrating that the person wearing the unifor does not deserve respect and does not seserve to wear the uniform.

[riqster]

18. Fair enough.

Perhaps we might say "potential" respect.

[jeff47]

35. Theoretically, others in that uniform who have earned respect

limit who gets to wear the uniform to those deserving respect.

When that's true, the "default respect" you speak of happens. When that isn't true, the "default respect" does not happen.

[Amimnoch]

17. Uniforms are deserving of respect

when the people who wear them are held to the level of accountability for their actions that goes with the level of respect.

One thing that the turning of their backs proved something that I always new.. Law enforcement can NOT be trusted to police themselves. When they work together under their own code of mob mentality, they can NOT be trusted to operate the investigations when one of their own stands accused. Likewise, since they often work with the DA's office, and have such close and integral ties to the DA's office, they should NOT be given a DA office prosecutor when they stand accused. It should be a legal conflict of interest imo. There should be special, independent, and objective consul available with no ties to law enforcement to run the prosecutions case.

[riqster]

19. Still comes down to the person wearing it.

Even when such checks are in place, people can and do fuck up.

[Augiedog]

20. The people

Who wear the "uniform" are the ones who need to respect what it stands for, thus earning the respect of those who paid for that uniform, and by the way, paid for the person wearing it. When you accept the responsibility of wearing a uniform; police, military or fire department etc, you also accept the public scrutiny that will come. If your behavior does not reflect that you respect the uniform, don't expect anyone else to respect you. Those of you who accept foul behavior from your comrades in uniform need to rethink, reset and react, retracting acceptance of grievous deportment from your fellow public employees. Going along to get along is more than just innocuous enablement, it is abetting. True brothers, in blue or any other color, don't allow brothers to run to ruin. The uniform is a symbol that implies that the wearer accepts the possibility of sacrifice for the greater good of the society in which he lives, disable that symbolic value at your and our peril.

[riqster]

21. Perfectly put!

[SnowCritter]

23. Right on, Augie!

[sarge43]

25. Well said, sir. Thank you n/t

[SummerSnow]

27. bravo! well said.

[George II]

29. "A uniform is just an outfit. It does NOT “deserve respect”."

At the same time, it does not automatically call for disdain, either, that should be earned as well.

[riqster]

31. Completely agree.

[treestar]

32. It's a metaphor, or metonymy

Figurative language. Straw man, that is not what is meant.

[riqster]

33. What they mean by "respect the uniform" is "respect everyone who wears the uniform".

I think most people understand that a garment is not literally the object.

[treestar]

34. I don't think they mean that

they mean the institution. We respect teachers. That does not mean we can't comment that some are doing a bad job.

Though on DU lately that seems to be a problem, i.e., cops.

[Jack Rabbit]

37. On the contrary. When I was an enlisted man in the Army, the adage was

You're supposed to salute the uniform, not the idiot wearing it.

[riqster]

38. Ceremonial gestures do not always indicate one's attitudes.

As in "the idiot wearing it". Hardly a respectful statement.

[sarge43]

50. J. Rabbit is right vis-a-vis the military

Idiots do wear uniforms and as individuals they're not worthy of respect, only obedience which by itself isn't respect. The uniform, specifically the rank, because of the authority and responsibility it represents is entitled to respect.. Further, the statue has to be returned. A four star returns the salute of a slick sleeve. More than a handful of company grade bright young things found out the hand way that a chief or sergeant major is not to be ignored.

The military salute is not a ceremonial gesture. It's an acknowledgement of a shared responsibility.

[riqster]

53. Interesting. Thanks.

[4Q2u2]

39. That is the reason for the disconnect on both sides

Uniforms are not just outfits. Uniforms are supposed to be earned as well, and with it some modicum of respect.
What happens many times is the lessons of what one is supposed to do with that Uniform and Implied Respect is either not taught properly or is not learned by the student. We talk about Civic lessons desperately needed back in American schools, what is even more desperately needed is Civic lessons and Institutional Values deeply instilled in Candidates. These lessons should be Gnat's Assed to the very being of what that Unit and the American public deserve and should expect when the Uniform is worn.
Everybody is equally damaged when that Uniform and Respect are tainted. The American public has their Constitutional rights trampled. Good honest hard working Cops are looked down on because they are perceived as dirty by association. Both sides feel disrespect and sets the stage for adversarial confrontation instead of mutual understanding. As a side note, one does not have to like what the other side is doing to still understand, but that starting point of understanding is what will allow for the better.
A mind set should be instilled of "Ask what you can do for your Country" to their everyday approach to their job.
Was Darren Wilson hired for the right reasons, and did he act to fulfill his Constitutional obligations to the Citizens of Ferguson, Missouri, No, absolutely not. He was even Fired by another Town for his racism. His total lack of respect for the law and other Races led to him being an ineffectual Police Officer and a general danger to the public. One Town chose to instill and live by the proper standards of Conduct and Ferguson did not. We see the results. Darren Wilson had the opportunity everyday when he put his uniform on tell himself that he had an awesome job because he got the chance to help people everyday. Instead he told himself everyday that his job was to bust balls and be an asshole. Could he have been taught differently and been made a better Officer? Maybe, Maybe not, but when it was found that he was not going to be the Officer we deserve, every Town should do the right thing.

[riqster]

41. Thought-provoking post.

[4Q2u2]

49. That is what is needed

This Country needs more thought on how it has moved away from what we deserve as Citizens.
How we can get there.

I proudly wore the Uniform of the U.S Navy for 23 yrs. Nothing made me madder than someone in the USN disgracing us and that Uniform more than anything. Top on that list was Leaders not instilling what Obligations we had to the American Public and Standards by which we were going to operate.

I am not very Artistic, nor musically talented. I am not a single mother struggling to raise children. I am not a Doctor or Research Scientist, but everyday though, I got to put my Uniform on and stand up for those who are. Not in the Rah Rah Merica way, but as a gift to me that I was allowed to "Serve". Those who service is not seen that way is what is missing a lot today.

How we were used is a story for another day.

[niyad]

40. k and r for this simple truth.

[riqster]

42. Thanks.

[AlbertCat]

43. Don't forget....

That priests and bishops and ayatollahs and many other religious folk wear uniforms.... that do not deserve any respect either.

[riqster]

47. Indeed. Same goes for suits, lab coats, etc.

[niyad]

44. I am one of those very weird people who don't give a damn about uniforms, or titles, or

insignias of any kind. the person wearing or holding same has to show me that s/he is worthy of the respect implied by same, otherwise--pfffft.

[riqster]

51. Nor I.

I cut my hair for a while back in the 70's, because too many people used it to gain cred in the freak community, not because they were on board with the values of it.

In other words, long hair was a "uniform", and not everyone who wore it deserved respect.

[One_Life_To_Give]

45. On average many uniforms represent volunteering for more risk than ordinary people.

Firefighters wear a uniform, and some are arsonists. But on the whole they are going to run to many situations which everyone else runs away from. That extends to the whole First Responder community. They are expected to run into situations that are known to be at a higher hazard level than what normal people would be expected to endure.

Likewise the armed services are the only job where one could be ordered into a war zone and your only alternative is a prison cell. Assuming we keep Pvt Eddie Slovik as the last soldier executed for desertion.

Not hero's but not ordinary folks either. Just folks who volunteered to be placed at higher risk than the average individual.

[riqster]

48. The uniform is a symbol that the wearer must live up to.

[blackspade]

46. Fuck yes.

[FBaggins]

54. A flag is just a piece of cloth...

A cross/star/crescent is just a piece of wood/plastic/metal...

A wedding ring is just a band of metal...

Our founding documents are just pieces of paper...



Sorry. None of these things are "just" anything. They are symbols of things that do "deserve respect". The individual wearing/displaying those symbols can dishonor them (and then you can disrespect the person), but you don't get to wait until the cop has individually earned your respect before granting it. That's anarchistic anti-government nonsense.

Police in uniform represent the society and the rule of law until they individually prove that they don't... not the other way around.

[riqster]

56. I respect your point of view.

Last edited Fri Jan 9, 2015, 02:43 PM - Edit history (1)

But remember e pluribus unum? "Out of many, one"?

Each of us is an individual, coming together to form a nation. And it is clear from the Constitution that we are individuals with all of the privileges and obligations that go with it.

To say that a group membership somehow confers an elevated status upon its members runs counter to the values upon which this country was based.

So much for the accusation of my being an anti-government anarchist...

[RedCappedBandit]

57. "you don't get to wait until the cop has individually earned your respect before granting it. "

Like hell we don't.

[ChosenUnWisely]

55. RESPECT is EARNED NEVER GIVEN it does not matter if they wear a uniform or hold an elected office

RESPECT MUST BE EARNED.

[riqster]

58. S'truth.

[hughee99]

59. I'll admit I find an odd irony in people suggesting that respect must be earned...

Last edited Fri Jan 9, 2015, 04:22 PM - Edit history (1)

referring to police officers, given that there have been a bunch of threads talking about how "disrespectful" the NYPD cops were of the mayor.

Please don't read this as an endorsement of the cops actions, I just find it interesting to see the general trend jump from "the office deserves respect" to "respect must be earned" based essentially on how one wants to argue the politics of a situation.