General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsLet's test when a cartoon is free speech vs hate & blasphemy
The Torah ( Christian Old Testament) and the Quran say: death to blasphemers.
PC people (press, some at DU) are squeamish to state that fact when it applies to Islam.
the following cartoon expresses that Torah/Quran doctrine + the PC squeamishness.
My question: is this cartoon free speech and satire, or is it racist blasphemous hate speech?
Scuba
(53,475 posts)... to us atheists.
Renew Deal
(81,847 posts)Scuba
(53,475 posts)MrBig
(640 posts)FSogol
(45,456 posts)LexVegas
(6,031 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Blasphemy, however, is a victimless crime.
dissentient
(861 posts)It's all free speech, even if its hateful, racist, etc. The first amendment protects it.
Regarding this cartoon, I'd say its mediocre, but that is my opinion.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)People are the ones who commit acts.
Stop blaming ink on paper and put the blame where it belongs. On people who act out of ignorance and learned bigotry and hatred! Be they of what ever religion they are responsible for their actions not some ancient text.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)fishwax
(29,148 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)Clearly, I was trying to draw the line between
criticism of religions, even if disrespectful of said religion = free speech
attack on the people followers of such or such faith = hate speech
fishwax
(29,148 posts)Johonny
(20,820 posts)The whole cartoon makes no sense.
Erich Bloodaxe BSN
(14,733 posts)It's one that many people would disagree with while many also agree with it, but it encapsulates a set of ongoing arguments.
It's not simply an insult. So yeah, this particular cartoon, for instance, could be satire, while a picture depicting a holy figure with dripping genitals is not. And there's nothing 'PC' squeamish about pointing out that the other cartoon was not 'satire'.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)Tuesday Afternoon
(56,912 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)The 'three religions of the Book' have passages of their texts calling for death to blasphemers.
And it's problematic. See Charlie Hebdo.
That's why I cringe when I hear any religion is a religion of 'peace'.
Their texts are anything but peaceful.
hedgehog
(36,286 posts)For those who dont know what proof-texting is it is finding passages of scripture that supports whatever position you want to uphold. Typically what happens is that an assertion is made, which generates disagreement. The opposer will list a passage of scripture or a string of passages as proof that that assertion is wrong. I have noticed this to be a common occurrence in the blogosphere. But I do believe it happens quite often in face to face conversations.
......
Problem of interpretation: isolating passages by themselves does not address the meaning and how that relates to what is being refuted. Passages must be considered in their rightful context and then correlated to the overall witness of scripture. For example, the issue of Christians and alcohol came up recently, which generated a host of passages that either supported either the acceptance of alcohol or its prohibition. Proof-texting can allow support for both sides but something has obviously gotten lost if that is so. Also, a word doesnt necessarily mean the same thing everywhere its used, which is why context is so important. To interpret properly, the word has to be examined according to how the author is using it. If we throw out a string of passages simply because we think it aligns because it is using the same word or the same concept, it is quite possible that we are comparing apples with oranges.
Problem of communcation: proof-texting does not really promote dialogue. It does not address where the differences are occurring. When passages are identified that seem to conflict with our understanding, there needs to be a dialogue about why the passages listed stand in opposition to whatever position is being refuted and specific points of difference. And dialogue does not mean, let me tell you why youre wrong. It goes back to understanding. Moreover, the interpretation and understanding factor ought to compel an examination of how we are communicating particular topics or passages.
Problem of arrogance: by throwing out a series of passages, especially if there is no explanation offered, can exude a confidence in ones position that does not need explaining. It can communicate the idea that the proof-texter has it all figured out and the position that is being refuted would certainly not be made if the presenter really had an understanding of what the bible is saying regarding the topic. It can paint the proof-texter in light of having a superior knowledge of the topic.
http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/blog/2010/09/the-problem-with-proof-texting/
brooklynite
(94,384 posts)...that they can't be clear about what the "correct" interpretation of god's will is.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)That's how I approach it.
KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)What are the qualities necessary for a cartoon to incite hatred or violence?
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)I just can't stand hearing that killings like the Paris one are due to fringe lunatics.
The stereotypical comment is that it's got nothing to do with religion. Baloney.
So I'm not diverting from anything, just reacting to the empty banalities of the Press.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)Albertoo
(2,016 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)do commit violence in the name of religion - what is the appropriate response then?
Bryant
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I don't think the concept of free speech inherently or necessarily denies either hate or blaspheme in its construct. A given statement, or even the cartoon provided could be any one of the three, any two of the three, or any three of the three.
Albertoo
(2,016 posts)treestar
(82,383 posts)and even acts on it.
Islam persons #2 - 3,000,000 may not agree with that, see? It is a religion of peace for them.
I don't know why it is hard, since we as liberals already condemn right wingers for calling people-group violent because some other persons of their same race did something violent.
el_bryanto
(11,804 posts)people do choose their religion.
Bryant
treestar
(82,383 posts)One can "choose" to drop the religion one was raised on, but it's not that easy. Plus it must not be easy in an Islamic state. I don't expect 1.2 billion Muslims to drop the religion because of what these guys did. It's part of their culture.