General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsCONGRATULATIONS - Your Job Has Been Outsourced/Contracted. You Can Reapply For It But ------
If you are unfortunate enough to be with United Airlines or Frontier Airlines your job can be outsourced or contracted out. However you can get your job back by reapplying for it but you will get lower pay and reduced benefits. The new corporate model for jobs is subcontracting most jobs within companies. You are an employee at that company site but you are employed by a contractor who pays your salary. And their profit is your reduced pay. The company where you are working has chosen to take what they would have paid you and given it to the CONTRACTOR.
AND I AM SURPRISED THAT I HAVE POSTED A NUMBER OF TIMES ABOUT WHAT 21ST CENTURY JOBS WILL BE AND HAVE GOTTEN LITTLE RESPONSE.
Folks you need to realize what corporations are up to with their anti worker initiatives. And as long as workers stay anti labor and anti union and stay silent it will only get worse.
CONTRACTING & OUTSOURCING jobs is the new employment cancer that is spreading throughout the work force. And ALL jobs can be contracted or outsourced. This practice was the hidden disease of the Reagan Revolution supported by the GOP. And I read an editorial in the Denver Post in the early 1980's about the "employee free business" model.
The source of this OP is that United contracted its baggage handlers in Denver who were union and plan to contract out more
employees over time. Frontier is contracting out 1600 jobs most of them ticket agents, customer service, aircraft maintenance and baggage handling to compete for lower costs. How long will it be before all the pilots are contractees working on miles flown.
If you are a professional like a doctor, lawyer, writer, IT specialist, or other professional many of these positions are contracted as well. Medical tests are interpreted in places like India and China for pennies on the dollar.
CONTRACTING AND OUTSOURCING ARE THE ECONOMIC ROT OF OUR TIME. AND WORKERS LOSE AND GET PAID LESS WITH EACH MIDDLE MAN TAKING PROFIT OUT OF PEOPLE'S PAY. For God's sake wake up and protest or something.
40% of jobs are contracts and it is growing daily.
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)the very large (and profitable) law firm where I work began gradually outsourcing support departments in the '90s. First it was fax, photocopy and mail room, then switchboard and reception, then the file clerks and now word processing dept. is gone too. Some people could reapply for their old jobs but it wasn't guaranteed they'd get them back. Some didn't. The word processing folks, some there for more than 30 years, were all let go, tossed like yesterday's trash.
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)or lower? I also work in the legal industry. are you going to legaltech?
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)in the Amlaw 200. What's legaltech?
wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)big ediscovery show. I know every firm in the amlaw 200 and probalby every CIO. I'm sure i know your firm. what state is your HQ?
LiberalElite
(14,691 posts)wilt the stilt
(4,528 posts)you might even use our software. Feb3-5 at Hilton.
MiniMe
(21,676 posts)You forgot, reduced benefits. They lost their seniority for vacation and some lost their jobs. And exactly the same departments, word processing, the mail room, the receptionists, the librarians. I think the partners refused to have their secretaries outsourced. I worked in the accounting department, and they didn't outsource that either.
olegramps
(8,200 posts)Don't look for any help from the either the democrats and especially the repukians. All they care about is getting reelected and staying on the government tit. Let's admit it the workers screwed their own self when the bought the corporate propaganda that unions were evil and they would take good care of the workers. Their jobs have been outsources, i.e., over 60,000 manufacturing facilities have been shuttered since the 1990s, pensions cut or eliminated and health care benefits a thing of the past. The latest boondoggle was the 401K scam where in place of pensions companies would contribute matching funds only to eventually eliminate them.
fasttense
(17,301 posts)even more people will be crapped upon by our oligarchs.
Enjoy the shit folks because it is the only thing our corporate rulers will give you.
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)They are coming next. Your right about this but in the end it won't matter.
When people talk about unionizing fast food workers I wonder if they realize the technological revolution they are up against. As if customers cannot be trained to use self serve kiosks or that franchise owners cannot build machines that cook a hamburger.
People over estimate their own importance in an increasingly automated world. One million US professional drivers will lose their jobs, when self driving trucks become reality.
RKP5637
(67,032 posts)job is and their perceived self-importance in the big picture. And to my knowledge NO politicians or few are acknowledging what is happening. All jobs are a technical implementation waiting to occur to replace the human with delusional self-perceived importance. Yet most people wander in the ruts of life not getting what is occurring around them thinking they are immune as long as they work ever so hard or they are just too smart to be replaced. It's laughable if it were not so sad.
seabeckind
(1,957 posts)and those who are eliminating the jobs are sticking to it.
Hey, accept our shitty offer because otherwise we'll bring in robots and you're history.
Global economy.
Service-oriented.
I didn't do away with your job, automation did. Your fault for not improving your skills.
All bullshit talking points.
The fact is that automation changes jobs, eliminates some and adds others. Corporations have no incentive to invest in any new technology cause that costs money. It's a lot easier to just shut the place down and buy a contract with someone else.
Added: And a lot more profitable. Shed some pensions. Unload some debt on the physical plant. Slap a for lease sign out front and start counting it as a loss on the balance sheet to reduce taxes. If the state comes by to ask why the place is empty, tell them that reopening is an option and how much is the state willing to pay. Then move the hq to the state that bids the most.
Lancero
(2,980 posts)I worked at a local grocery store for a year, and I noticed something kinda shocking.
Hardly anyone used the self checkout.
During peak hours, most people still preferred the traditional checkout lines.
Automation will undoubtedly replace some jobs, however people way overestimate just how many will be.
Half-Century Man
(5,279 posts)I spent 20+ years working with automation. I've attended the Fanuc robotics school in Pontiac Mi. I've been part of teams which has built 6 automation cells. I've been a maintenance man (electrician/mechanic) who kept 18 cells running 24/7/362 days a year (shut down christmas,new years day, and july 4th).
Automation requires people on site. Maintenance people, operators, programmers, tenders, and loader/unloaders to name a few.
Control screen that can be operated by a complete novice at the point of first encounter have a very limited function range.
As you pointed out, people prefer human interaction.
Anything connected to a network is vulnerable to viruses, everything not on a network requires more humans to run.
Any machine to machine contact point has the potential to catastrophically crash both machines.
seabeckind
(1,957 posts)and the place has those machines,
I make a point to tell the clerk that I refuse to use a machine made with chinese parts, shipped on a malasian freighter, programmed in india, whose sole purpose is to move the cost of labor for scanning and bagging from the store to me.
I tell the clerk I'd rather she(or he) have a job than some chinese guy, malasian guy, or indian guy, and some MBA get a bonus for suggesting it as a way to save money. Especially since his bonus would more than cover the cost.
TheBlackAdder
(28,073 posts)I spoke to the floor staff and objected to using a self-checkout.
When they said they would help me scan my merchandise, I told them that I didn't like this move to eliminate jobs and abandonded the order, leaving it at the checkout. I told them that I would not grace the doorway of that store. It was bad enough that they didn't have staff walking the floor for assistance, but to cut the checkout staff was pretty "Lowes."
Now, they'll need someone to restock the merch I had selected.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I like having contact with the sales personnel. I know that sounds ridiculous, but I'm human. I like dealing with other human beings.
And when I go to department stores, there are too few sales clerks to help me find things. I figure I might as well use the internet -- unless I am looking for something I can't find on the internet or I want to look at the products themselves.
False economy. Penny wise and pound foolish -- some of these attempts to replace real people with automation.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)fasttense
(17,301 posts)Technology always creates as many jobs as it destroys. They are just different jobs and Americans aren't seeing all the factory workers in China and India doing all the work. Americans aren't seeing all the farmers growing their food in India, Mexico and Thailand. Americans all think we've had this giant labor saving technology breakthrough ONLY because they don't see the workers in other countries doing all the labor Americans use to do themselves.
Technology created millions of workers to deal with computers and will create millions of more workers to deal with robots. It's just that a lot of these new jobs don't pay as well as the old jobs taken away and given to others. It's NOT technology that is destroying jobs and wages it is the corporate rulers who control the technology who are destroying society.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)is just what to do about it.
former9thward
(31,802 posts)Which is why they are silent about it.
seabeckind
(1,957 posts)Reagan killed anti-trust.
Reagan killed gov't oversight that guaranteed active competition.
Break 'em up.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Wella
(1,827 posts)This is what the privatization of education is all about.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts)daleanime
(17,796 posts)KT2000
(20,544 posts)are talking about this -maybe Sanders, but they will not touch labor issues. Apparently they think we cannot see what is going on. The only thing we can do is push it with our elected officials and somehow make then address it.
secondvariety
(1,245 posts)I honestly don't know what to tell my kids what they should do with their lives. As long as Union membership keeps declining and anti-labor concessions are enacted, it'll only get worse.
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)in places where they write in the dirt for school. Those are the skills that will be need for the future here. Maybe learning how to cut discarded pieces of tin for the roof of the shack.
If you want a better one, Vietnam looks promising, especially if they sign the TPP.
We could, in theory, reverse it, except that we have a nation full of people who have been trained to be employees, to think of themselves as always needing to get someone else's approval for their actions. So any fix means changing an entire culture who has never conceptualized the idea they They, the workers, need to be making the decisions. Back about 1900 an org called the IWW was teaching that, until the government, the traitorous and backstabbing AFL, and owners conspired to kill them off and force workers to kowtow to business.
"I saved a thousand slaves. I could have saved a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves". Harriet Tubman
Harriet Tubman was working with real slaves, on a real plantation, and groused that even then they couldn't recognize their condition. Think of how you need to convince the person sitting in their lazy boy and watching cable that they are owned, perhaps even more than any slave was.
The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.
Steven Biko
We hardly use chains any longer. They are so much less efficient than school.
Until we go in the other direction, which would require changing an entire culture that CAN'T know it needs to change, we will continue over this cliff.
lastlib
(22,981 posts)annabanana
(52,791 posts)BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)The sad part is, most Democrats agree that this is not a good state of affairs and that something should be done about it. But there is nothing to be done about it so let's all support the TPP because Obama.
Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)DhhD
(4,695 posts)for by the government. That is something that Democrats should all be singing about while voting for it, in Congress. All Americans should support this as a Movement.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I'm thrilled about the community college proposal. But I still won't support the TPP.
DesertDiamond
(1,616 posts)were individual, one-person businesses. Each transcriptionist had his or her own contract with hospitals and therefore was able to negotiate the rate they needed not only to survive but to pay for supplies and equipment - our computers, etc. - and a transcriptionist could make enough to support a family. Then not long after I started, there was this new thing where contractors came in and got hospitals to give them contracts for the entire hospital, so the transcriptionists who did not have private medical practices as clients now had to become subcontractors. Well, guess what? Income went down, and then whenever the company's contract with a hospital was up there was a bidding war and the transcriptionists' income would go down again. I got to where was working 16-18 hours a day 7 days a week to survive. I never took a vacation, ever. If I went to visit my dad I took my equipment with me. And even with that work schedule I was barely surviving. I had no health insurance. Some months my income was only around $800. And out of this meager income I still had to maintain my own equipment. I felt trapped. If I took a day off to try to find another job it would mean I might not make the rent.
I finally got out of that situation, but it really showed me the world of subcontracting in this era. And it's true - it increases profits for the corporations, and not only that, but for subcontractors MINIMUM WAGE LAWS DO NOT APPLY. No wonder it's such an attractive option for corporations!
Yes, we need to fight this trend! I don't know how at this point, but there has to be a way.
Brigid
(17,621 posts)Good thing I ignored those "become a medical transcriptionist" ads. Do all medical transcriptionists have it that bad?
DesertDiamond
(1,616 posts)newsletter for medical transcriptionists discussed in one of her missives her concerns on learning that a large number of medical transcriptionists were living below the poverty line. To my knowledge that has not changed. Whenever a friend asks me about becoming a medical transcriptionist, I tell them DON'T!!!
cap
(7,170 posts)You can only stay 1099 for one year and then the company is required to hire you as an employee. You are owed back wages and benefits. Look at Microsoft case for computer programmers. See a lawyer.
DesertDiamond
(1,616 posts)ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)long.
DesertDiamond
(1,616 posts)that would flush us down the toilet. Actually, it's a very difficult skill, and of those who begin the courses, most drop out, so it's not like MTs are a dime a dozen. Companies were always begging for more MTs, and it was easy to jump from one company to another within a day or two. But it was still the same low pay.
adieu
(1,009 posts)Union membership! Or rather, guilds.
Jeffersons Ghost
(15,235 posts)due to their inefficiency, failure to work with important agents of their governments and budgetary cutbacks.
pathansen
(1,039 posts)mtasselin
(666 posts)I am in favor of a nation wide strike, like you know the kind that France and Europe used to do. Wait until TPP gets passed and many millions of more jobs are lost or you have to compete for the job you once owned and get paid at a much lower rate. There is a storm brewing in this country and the day for reckoning is coming.
War Horse
(931 posts)My job was outsourced in late 2009, as were 90 % of those of my then colleagues. Only work I've done since then has been as a freelancer. And why as a freelancer? Because most companies don't really want to have any employees if they can avoid it. The ideal scenario is an overworked, skeleton in-house staff that manages said freelancers, contractors etc. on a project-to-project basis.
ramprat63
(4 posts)I am a 30 year employee of United Airlines. Since our merger with Continental, we have outsourced 30 stations and this year 28 more are slated to be outsourced. During the Congressional hearing in 2010 by the Subcommitee for Infrastructure and Transportation, the aviation department asked then CEO of United Glenn Tilton and Continental CEO Jeff Smicek what effect the merger would have on frontline employees. His response was very little or no effect. I guess roughly 5 thousand jobs lost doesn't effect him very much. http://www.c-span.org/video/?c4458724/tells-congress-higher-management-job-will-cut-front-line . My job will be gone by May 1st. and I am to young to retire. No worries, I'll go work at Walmart. United posted record profits last year of 1.1 billion dollars, and we gave Mr. Smicek a big raise making his salary 8 million dollars a year. I guess they need to get rid of me to pay him. Anyway, I'll get off my soapbox now......
R. Adams
progressoid
(49,825 posts)Preach it brother!
Also, welcome to DU.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)CrispyQ
(36,226 posts)This week was their last week. They had to train their Indian replacements if they wanted to get their severance package, which is now tied to unemployment. You no longer get X number of weeks pay for each year you worked, instead, the company will pay the difference between the unemployment amount & the wage amount for X number of weeks, which forces you to apply for unemployment if you want any severance pay.
Another billion dollar company letting the government pay for part of their employee's severance package. This shit has got to stop, but I don't see American's pissed off about it.
seabeckind
(1,957 posts)I was absolutely disgusted with the way the industry has changed the model to increase their profits and do it on the backs of the workers and the customers. And leaving each of them no choice in the matter because all (? -- 3?) do it exactly the same way.
Invest in changes? Nope. Just declare the driver an independent contractor and make him hire the loaders. Make him pick up the cost of his benefits and SS.
Each of my moves involved a staging where the stuff went to a temporary place, then across the country. I paid to load the stuff into storage containers, then the containers were moved to the warehouse. Then when the cross-country was activated, the containers were unloaded onto the warehouse floor and loaded in the truck -- by the driver/contractor (and whoever he hires to help him). Then driven cross country and unloaded by the driver/contractor who hires temporary workers.
And they all do it the same way. The company doesn't care about reducing costs to the individual customer cause that customer has no choice. And the workers have no choice.
The competitive model is broken.
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)You summed it up! The competitive model is broken.
0nirevets
(390 posts)I'm sorry this happened to you, but outsourcing has been going on for a while. In 2005 I was an IT Services contractor for a large entertainment company in Los Angeles. Groups of IT "trainees" were being flown in from India and we were tasked with teaching them everything we did while they shadowed us around for a couple of weeks. The company was preparing to open a large IT Support Center in India. Suddenly the trainees left and about 3/4 of our IT department was laid off. Weren't we lucky to have trained our own replacements! I looked for work at other entertainment companies, but no one was hiring.
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)I hated every second of it. I was in the IT sector.
Contracts are given in 3-6-12 month durations. It is sometimes difficult finding work when the contract ends. It's a constant worry about where your next job will be. Some downtime may be required in between jobs.
Some companies offer benefits(crappy ones), others don't.
Some travel is most likely required.
The client you work for can fire your ass at any given time, for no reason. They like that option, and utilize it quite often.
The clients expect you to know everything about everything, which we all know is impossible. If you don't know an answer when questioned, you could be gone the next day. There is no certainty of keeping your job.
Contracting is very demanding. Clients set unrealistic deadlines, with no room/time for issues that arise, and don't care how may hours you have to put in to keep the deadline. There is no room for vacations, sick time, or any errors. They don't care.
What happened to the olden days when you got in your car, went to work each day, put in your best effort, had benefits, didn't have to worry about whether or not you were working tomorrow, and went home in the evening? Rinse and repeat. With any new job, there was always be a learning curve, especially in IT. You accepted those challenges and improved on your skill set. Everyone was cool with it.
Not any more. Contracting is in big time, and I agree, it is rotting away at society. Some people love contracting, but I would think a majority hate it.
Veilex
(1,555 posts)This has been around for quite a while now. I'm not sure there is a valid way to protest this sort of "employment"... short of refusing to use the services of those who use contracted labor...and good luck with that. Virtually every sector is touched by contracted labor.
About the only real viable thing that can be done, at least as far as I can see, is to re-invigorate unions to be able to fight these abusive and parasitic employment practices.
peacebird
(14,195 posts)Response to TheMastersNemesis (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)Along with "free" trade.
The outsourcing reduces not only the wages of working Americans but our tax revenue and the money put into the Social Security and Medicare funds.
Every dollar less that an American employee earns is a dollar less subject to Social Security and Medicare contributions.
Young people, beware. It is not the benefits your parents and grandparents are now receiving that will destroy Social Security and Medicare. It's your own low wages.
Make all income and all capital gains and all bonuses subject to Social Security and Medicare taxes AND at the same time lower the percentage of that income, etc. that is paid into Social Security and Medicare on all that income, and not only will Social Security and Medicare be saved, but we will have a bit more social justice in our country.
The less the working people are earning, the less goes into Social Security and Medicare. The more the CEOs get, the less goes into Social Security and Medicare. The process described in the OP is an attack on our social safety network among other things.
I realize that the goal in this change in the employment status of the employees is not necessarily to destroy Social Security and Medicare, but it is a very damaging side effect, damaging to our country, to our society.
Tax all income for Social Security and Medicare (and maybe eventually for universal single payer healthcare).
If you are a working person, you need to organize to end the use of the excuse of contracting out jobs by large, wealthy corporations. They are taking American working people for a ride and cashing in at the end.
uponit7771
(90,225 posts)Turbineguy
(37,212 posts)Money has printing on both sides, guys.