Men apologize for conceding to and participating in an abortion

[boston bean]

In a video entitled "The Apology," three Christian men apologize to women for allowing them to have an abortion and for not putting up a fight "for the opportunity to save a child."


The video, released by the faith-based Heroic Media, begins with melancholy music and features three men who lament that women in their lives have had abortions.

"I conceded to an abortion," Pastor Shane Idleman says. "That decision still haunts me today."

Against a montage of giggling, joyful children and babies, the men discuss how much they regret the decision and take responsibility for letting down God, women and their unborn children.

"I should've manned up and I should've fought for you and -- I didn't," John Blandford says. "I didn't."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/men-apologize-women-abortions-video

I got no words, except dear god, please let the responses to this post be against this offensive religious clap trap.

[Brickbat]

1. Horrifying.

"Sorry I didn't control you more."

[jehop61]

2. Love the part

Where it says "they allowed".

[StarlightGold]

29. Yup...

Unless they plan to strap a woman down to a bed for the 9 month gestation period, they have NO control whatever.
And that just GALLS them.

[tanyev]

3. But no apologies for failing to use adequate contraception, I'm guessing?

[ND-Dem]

88. +1

[chervilant]

4. Beyond disgusting!

These men did NOT have abortions! Christ-on-a-Cracker! This whole video is offensive.

[dawg]

5. If done right, these men could have delivered a worthwhile message. But this is arrogant.

I do think it's important for anti-abortionists to recognize the fact that two adults are involved in an unplanned pregnancy - not just one.

But this message .... yuck! And I say that as a Christian myself.

There were lots of condescending and self-serving "apologies" to the mothers of their unborn children. But the one I did *not* hear was, "I apologize for never offering to financially and emotionally support you in raising the child that we conceived together."

[Bonobo]

6. I didn't watch the video so I won't comment on it but

It is an interesting subject to explore.

Men have no say or should have no say in whether or not there is an abortion. I'm quite sure we agree on that.

But that doesn't mean they can't be left with feelings including regret. After all, men are human and the fetus could have one day grown into their son or daughter.

Since men have no say as to whether the abortion happens or not, shouldn't they at least be given the latitude to have and express feelings over the event?

I expect to be attacked, so go right ahead.

[dawg]

13. Men have the right to their feelings.

And they have the right to express those feelings to the potential mother. And, of course, they have the right to talk about those feelings later.

This video isn't really like that though.

[Bonobo]

14. Noted, I figured that.

It just got me thinking so I spoke my thoughts out loud.

[Aerows]

40. It's true

I'm sure there are probably support groups, too, that can help. I'd suggest utilizing counseling for those who feel shaky about what happened, and maybe can get some support and information to prevent it from happening again.

Just my thoughts.

[CTyankee]

20. This isn't about how a man feels or does not feel. Nobody is arguing about that.

I think what gets lost here is the question of moral choice. To exercise that choice is what makes us human beings, I have always believed. I would agree that communication is extremely important in a relationship or a marriage and when the woman in that relationship is faced with that choice it is better for more, not less, communication. But at the end of the day, she makes the moral choice for herself, according to her beliefs. It is sacrosanct and cannot be transferred to anyone else.

[arcane1]

73. If the man says "keep the baby" doesn't the woman still have the right to choose not to?

[NutmegYankee]

74. It's the woman's body. END OF DEBATE.

[boston bean]

75. Good choice on the Nuke smiley.

It will prove to be fitting.

[boston bean]

78. Hillary is for a womans right to choose unconditionally,

So I can see how you wouldn't be voting for her.

[NutmegYankee]

79. Bye Bye

[uppityperson]

80. And there she goes. Again. And again and again.

Or

[uppityperson]

76. LG joins us posting nasty. Even for you, my dear, it is your choice whether or not to consult with

the man. Even for you.

[Aerows]

39. There is a counselor on every corner

They should avail themselves of one, and there are probably plenty of support groups to help them work through it, and prevent it from happening in the future.

[TreasonousBastard]

7. "She got pregnant..."

And you had nothing to do with that?

I only bothered with half of it but that half was so over the top it could be taken for satire.

[smirkymonkey]

15. That was exactly the phrase that popped

out for me. "She got pregnant". Well, why don't you use some birth control, idiot? Nobody gets pregnant by themselves. Think a bit beforehand and you can prevent these things.

[3catwoman3]

31. As opposed to...

..."I got her pregnant." No immaculate conception involved here, boys.

[DLevine]

8. Hey, guys. Not your uterus, not your call.

So no, you didn't "allow" anything.

[yeoman6987]

18. I think there was a case where a guy sued the woman to

Stop her from having an abortion. I guess these guys wanted to do that had they got another chance. Ugh!

[SheilaT]

9. I likewise don't need to see the video.

Did they do everything possible in the first place to keep the pregnancy from happening, INCLUDING abstinence? No? Then, did they notice they they were not the ones to get pregnant? (As an aside, I really dislike it when a man says, refer to his wife/girlfriend/whoever that "we're pregnant". Sorry, no "we" involved. One person and one person only is pregnant.)

And in the end, even if all birth control fails, or if it wasn't used in the first place, then it's up to the woman to decide what to do about her body.

[maryellen99]

12. I don't need to see it either nt

If the women they were with would've kept the baby, they would've walked away from her and the baby,leaving her to raise it on her own.

[SheilaT]

24. No doubt.

In the end, the women invariably bears full responsibility for the outcome.

[Fawke Em]

33. That "we're" pregnant always irks me, too.

I always correct the man who says it, too.

[madinmaryland]

35. I'm a guy, and someone I worked with made that comment and I said he didn't look pregnant!!

He turned bright red!!

[Luminous Animal]

52. I've done that, too.

[riversedge]

10. BEST comment yet...

douglashh said:

Maybe they should apologize for not using a condom when they had sex with these women.

[countryjake]

11. Against my better judgement...

I guess I shouldn't mock them?

I can't even watch the whole thing........

[smirkymonkey]

16. Ugh!

How much do you want to bet that these guys would have walked away from the woman they got pregnant?

[Harmony Blue]

17. All human beings have milliions of years of programming

to reproduce and bring offspring to this world.. This is something all men and women must deal with.

So the regret of not passing on your genes is very real and tangible.

[onecaliberal]

19. I'm sorry they think women cannot

Be trusted with their own lives. To make decisions for themselves and their own well being.

[MiniMe]

21. Are we getting near a Roe vs Wade anniversery?

[Denzil_DC]

22. Key phrase: "allowing them"

I mean, WTF?!

I've been in such a situation. It came down to offering support for what for some is a very difficult and painful decision (for others, not so, and that's fine), not giving my "permission."

[dawg]

23. Yeah. That's just insane. The only thing those men shouldn't have allowed those women to do ...

was to let themselves get involved with such major-league assholes.

[wheniwasincongress]

25. Ugh where to begin?

anyways can't wait for the inevitable response videos, especially the equally well-produced ones

[Jefferson23]

26. Allowing them to have an abortion? The ignorance of them when stating

they should have saved a child...there was NO child aborted.

Our society has no shortage of ignorance..most important is that we have solid laws
without ambiguity as to who can and cannot have a safe legal abortion..and when
they can have one.

That has eroded, that is more troubling than these idiots.

[DerekG]

27. Didn't watch it, but I hope folks understand that some men would be haunted

I'm ignoring the above video, as I suspect it is of a far-right Christian nutjob bent.

Regardless of this, my sex life has been extraordinarily disciplined--no one-nighters, only committed relationships with protection used by both of us--because of a paradox:

1. I refuse to help bring a human being into a world such as this.

2. I have no desire to be party to an abortion.

I consider a fetus a life, and would be haunted by a termination. (And by the way, I'm an agnostic socialist, so don't even think about labeling me a reactionary. This is a matter of personal morality.)

[Aerows]

37. "My sex life is extraordinarily disciplined"

"No one-nighters, only committed relationships."

This does not apply to you. Some of the most careless are men that proclaim themselves to be devout, but can't resist the thrill of the "forbidden" which is why abstinence only education is an abject failure.

If the Church couldn't prevent extramarital or premarital sex (and homosexual sex, for that matter) over the course of 2000 years, and humanity didn't die out, it's pretty much a given that contraceptives, considerate partners and communication help prevent abortions (unless rape, incest and medical conditions are included).

Where things get murky is when there are accidents. You can do everything under the sun and have an accident.

What does your personal morality dictate in that instance? You don't want children, you and your partner are in a committed relationship, and the condom breaks.

What then?

[Warren DeMontague]

42. Is it me, or does that sound really kinky?

[Aerows]

44. It's just you

I was answering a serious question seriously.

[Warren DeMontague]

47. Geez, and after I went to all the trouble to find that animated gif.

Yeah, well, I generally show up to DU with the assumption that everybody here is supposed to be broadly pro-choice. In theory, at least. I know there are a few outliers, but it seems to me that ought to be about the basic ground floor requirement for being a self-identified progressive or Democrat.

But, then, seeing as this week God-addled religious Fundamentalists are apparently like half this place's new best buds, horribly oppressed by the mean mocking forces of modernity, secularism and whatnot, well... fuck me if I forget which team I'm supposed to be on.

[DerekG]

50. So I'm not a progressive, then?

I didn't realize that being cavalier about the prospect of an abortion was a "ground-floor requirement."

(But then, I'm not a Democrat. Not until that unprincipled party returns to its New Deal/Great Society roots).

[Warren DeMontague]

51. Cavalier? How about a recognition that if it isnt your body and pregnancy, it simply isnt up to you?

I have one head and it is attached to one body with one neck. Controlling that keeps me busy enough. Women can and should be trusted to make their own decisions about their own bodies. That is not "cavalier".

[DerekG]

55. It's not an appendix; it's a fetus

Sorry if I offend your sensibilities, but I wouldn't be cavalier if a fetus that I helped create is disposed of.

[Warren DeMontague]

58. Most people recognize, logically and ethically, that there is a continuum involved in a pregnancy.

A fertilized egg 5 seconds after conception is not the same thing as "a baby". Indeed, it is only the anti-choice people in this country who demand that they be treated, legally, like the same thing.

Most abortions- the overwhelming majority- take place in the first trimester. That is a simple statistical fact. This idea that women are running around pregnant for 8 months then getting abortions for the hell of it- it's like the vodka drinking, bon-bon eating "welfare queens". It doesnt exist, except in Rush Limbaugh's head.

And the decision - any decision - has to lie with the pregnant woman whose body it is. Not anyone else. That seems basic to me. Why should other people override her in that matter? It is patronizing and disrespectful.

[DerekG]

62. When did I designate a fetus as a baby? Or advocate "personhood", for that matter?

It's not a baby. However, notwithstanding the prospect of miscarriage, the fetus is destined to become a baby upon birth. I take that as a sobering fact, and would not be cavalier were that life, which shares my DNA, cut short.

[Warren DeMontague]

63. And as such I hope you never find yourself in that position.

And certainly in an ideal world all couples who might face an unplanned pregnancy would have good lines of communication and deal with the situation together with mutual support, etc.

But that is not the same thing as "I should have stopped you"

[DerekG]

66. I'm pro-choice, so you shouldn't be bothered by my code of conduct

I've heard activists claim, "Don't like abortion? Don't have one."

Well, I conduct myself in such a fashion that I don't have to be party to one. I take this very seriously.

[Warren DeMontague]

68. I meant that as a sympathetic statement

Not one that should be construed as me trying to tell you what you ought to do.

[DerekG]

69. I apologize

Thank you.

[Major Nikon]

60. Can I choose both?

[DerekG]

49. She uses birth control; I often use a condom

No accidents yet.

Besides, in a few years, I plan on getting a vasectomy.

[Luminous Animal]

53. Why not do it now?

[DerekG]

57. I'm waiting until I hit my mid-30s before making that final decision

Until then, I'm sticking with condoms and birth control.

[lancer78]

59. Doctors will refuse

to do one if a man has no children.

[Luminous Animal]

67. He can contact Planned Parenthood. They will refer him to a doctor who will

perform the procedure. Not all doctors refuse.

[madinmaryland]

70. Can I make a suggestion Derek? Why don't you have a visectomy? Then you would

never be put into the situation of bringing a human being into this world and you would also be able to enjoy your sexual experience without the baggage!

[DerekG]

71. I'm planning on it

I'm holding out a little longer, just in case my attitude shifts. (Improbable, but stranger things have happened.)

[seveneyes]

28. Until men start giving birth or having abortions

They should really just shut the fuck up about it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

30. ...

[NaturalHigh]

32. Really? I think most women considering abortion...

would probably like some input from their partners. Maybe the guys should just say "no, I can't give birth so I'm just going to shut the fuck up about it."

When men are asked to speak up for abortion rights, maybe they should just say "no, I can't give birth so I'm just going to shut the fuck up about it." When asked for money to support abortion rights, maybe they should just keep their wallets closed because, after all, it's none of their business one way or the other.

Your answer is overly simplistic.

[Aerows]

38. Yours is, too

"When asked for money to support abortion rights, maybe they should just keep their wallets closed because, after all, it's none of their business one way or the other."

Maybe you should if that is the way that you feel about it.

[NaturalHigh]

46. I'm not sure of the point of your post...

but I have been told many times that abortion is none of my business. If I were inclined to donate to a pro-abortion cause, does that mean my money isn't welcome either?

[Luminous Animal]

56. The choice of an individual person is none of your business. The well-coordinated

attacks on the ability to exercise that choice is a societal issue.

[NaturalHigh]

65. My questions were mostly rhetorical.

I stay out of the debate, and I intend to continue doing the same. As plenty of people have pointed out, it doesn't affect me, so I don't get involved. Frankly one extreme or the other on this issue won't matter much to me.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

34. "allowing them" ??? what the literal fuck. ??? these men need a steaming hot cup of STFU.

My Body. My Rules. End of discussion.

[Aerows]

36. Shouldv'e manned up

and used a condom, since, you know, she didn't get pregnant by herself. Or maybe you could have offered support.

Or maybe you should have realized that you getting a woman pregnant does not endanger your health, put financial strain on you, or social stigma.

Maybe you should just STFU and let women tend to their own business?

[NaturalHigh]

48. While I mostly agree...

I would posit that the man who gets a woman pregnant may very well face a social stigma (particularly depending on his social circle), and it would certainly impose a financial burden on him.

[Warren DeMontague]

41. "religious clap trap"- SEE? GD IS HOSTILE AND INTOLERANT OF DEEPLY HELD FAITHINESS!!!!!!!

Stop persecuting the poor people who just believe so strongly in their believe-y type beliefs that they need to tell the rest of the world how to run their shit!

Why can't you be more tolerant of people's deeply held faith, even when that deeply held faith dictates that they pass laws about your body?

[boston bean]

43. I agree. I think that makes twice over the past few months...

[Warren DeMontague]

45. Odd.

edited to add: I saw the youtube thumbnail and first thought "crap, Woody Harrelson has really let himself go"

[shenmue]

54. Uhhhh

Dumb.

[Luminous Animal]

61. Well, watched it. I am blown away by the hubris. They actually said, "I had an abortion."

[boston bean]

64. Yep. And some in this thread seem to feel the same way.

[PumpkinAle]

81. Where the eff in the Bible does it say that abortion is wrong?

And who the hell are these effing men to even think they have a say in what a woman decides to do.

p.s. Your God isn't let down because of your decision re: abortion - your God is let down because your snivelling, condescending, arrogant attitude towards women is disgusting, archaic and reprehensible.

[TorchTheWitch]

83. nowhere - in fact it does state in the Bible that life doesn't begin until quickening

"Quickening" is when the pregnant woman is able to feel the fetus move inside her. Anti-abortionists are just using their religion as an excuse to attempt to legitimize their desire to control women through pregnancy.

[PumpkinAle]

84. Yep and I am so

frustrated by it.

[TorchTheWitch]

87. you, me and a whole hell of a lot of others

[tanyev]

85. It gives instructions on how to induce an abortion in Numbers 5:11-31.

To be used when a man is suspicious that his wife is pregnant with someone else's child, natch.

The Bible's guide to abortion

I don't know how I missed this before, but I did. There is a biblical way of having an abortion. A method that is not only approved by God, it was invented by him. He describes it himself in the book of Numbers (5:11-31).

The first thing to notice is the context. This procedure is only intended for married couples, specifically for any man that suspects that his wife has been messing around. No proof is necessary; suspicion alone is sufficient to God.

Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon ... And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water ... And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD ... and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse.... (5:15-18)

And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse: But if thou hast gone aside to another instead of thy husband, and if thou be defiled, and some man have lain with thee beside thine husband: Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy thigh to rot, and thy belly to swell; And this water that causeth the curse shall go into thy bowels, to make thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot: And the woman shall say, Amen, amen. 5:19-22

See more at: http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot.com/2008/10/bibles-guide-to-abortion.html#sthash.XLwhyxm7.dpuf

[PumpkinAle]

86. Wow, just wow...... I think this needs broadcasting

thanks Tenyev

[Freddie]

82. Raising the child aside...

Until HE bears the discomfort, body alteration, health risks and very real risk of death from pregnancy and childbirth, then he has NO SAY WHATSOEVER over decisions she makes about her body and her life. Ideally a committed couple will discuss these things together, but in the end it's 100% her decision.

[TheKentuckian]

89. Conceding is not something you can do when it isn't your right to give or take

Participation is another issue that I leave to the individuals but the idea that anything was or could be conceded is sick.