General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis is not so much about a deflated football as it is about the hatred for a team.
I say that as a Packer fan who isn't particularly fond of the Patriots (thanks mainly to their fans).
It's a non-issue.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Aaron Rodgers admitted on film that he likes the footballs he plays with to be overinflated. Hatred. That's all.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)According to NFL rules, the PAtriots should be fined $275K, $25K per deflated ball.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)Got it.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Why? Why does the QB of my team get away with it, and the QB of a team that is hated by many not? Got it now? Non-story unless you are willing to throw everyone in that cheating charge. If it wasn't the Patriots, or possibly the Cowboys, no one would care.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)The NFL could make it all go away if tomorrow afternoon they announce a fine against the team of $275K and a loss of a first dround draft pick, then let it go.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Another QB admitted it.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)He has his team pump the balls up to an overinflated PSI.
They then hand the balls to the officials who deflate the balls to regulation (12.5 - 13.5).
The Patriots had the balls set to regulation, had them inspected, then the balls became deflated AFTER the inspection.
One team cheated. The other team DID NOT.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)This has never even been mentioned before .. ever.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)It was something similar to be happy if a couple sneaked by.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)It was a thing of beauty, I must say.
mythology
(9,527 posts)Rodgers has said he will submit the footballs to the referees overinflated. It's the ref's job to ensure that the footballs are inflated to the correct allowed amounts. There is nothing that says the team has to submit footballs inflated within the legal bounds.
In the case of the Patriots, the footballs that they submitted were at the proper level when submitted and then were found to be significantly below the allowed amount at half time.
So no, it's not the same thing. One is cheating, one isn't. I don't hate the Patriots because they are the Patriots or even because their fans are obnoxious. I hate them because they cheat to win. I hate Seattle and all their performance enhancing drug users because they cheat to win (well and their perpetual yapping).
I wish my team, the Texans would cut Brian Cushing who has tested positive for performance enhancing drugs (and even more so with his "rare medical condition" that he claims caused the positive test, because that's just lame). Although given his steroid use was obvious from when he was in college, it's sadly obvious that they didn't care. There is a zero percent chance that his level of physical change was just a result of healthy eating and lifting weights.
madokie
(51,076 posts)most of all of us have cheated on something sometime or the other. I taste sour grapes and nothing else in this
Andrew Luck is a good quarterback but not in the same class as Tom Brady, or Russell Wilson, for that matter. Not saying he won't or can't be but at the moment he is not the same caliber of player as these two guy I mentioned. I know that Wilson is only in his third season but he already was part of a winning the superbowl team so that shows his worth. Not all players advance at the same speed. Some flat ass never make it and at this point in time nothing says that Luck will even get there. Sour grapes is what I keep coming back to on this.
Fact is the Patriots kicked the Colts ass up one side of the field and down the other, from start to finish no matter the ball pressure. You reckon that Tom or Bill were over there on the sidelines letting air out of the balls between possessions? I don't and I don't think anyone on their team was. Maybe a disgruntled employee if it is found to be true that someone was. I still say it very well could be a manufacturing defect. I know manufacturing defects happen and it happens a lot more often than we know on about everything we buy.
I'm looking forward to a good superbowl game and will be watching it no matter what. I'll pull for the Hawks but it has nothing to do with Brady or Bilichick or the football pressure. I like Russell Wilson and Richard Sherman to be honest with you.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)They have been caught red handed again. Brady just got reamed out by the ESPN crew
Once you start covering up, lying, twisting in the wind, you make the issue worse
truebluegreen
(9,033 posts)I don't blame them. Laughing it off, like it's the silliest thing he ever heard, and not worthy of a response? Puhleeeese.
GusBob
(7,286 posts)The one commentator Mark Brunnell was about to cry
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)Like he said, it sucks because they didn't need to cheat to win, they played better with the replacement balls.
pnwmom
(108,952 posts)We'll never know if there were other close games where their ball cheating made the difference.
beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)I'm sure the Patriots aren't alone, we'll never know how many other teams cheated but didn't get caught.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)Go Marlins!
on point
(2,506 posts)Cheating everywhere and every time needs to dealt with severely as a deterrent.
Otherwise, corps, hedge funds, politicians, students etc all think that is 'how the game is played', and the downward spiral of the country continues.
Disgusting to laugh this off as no big deal.
nt
n/t
pintobean
(18,101 posts)We get to find out a lot about people's character. People who are okay with cheating are not people I want to trust.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Aaron Rodgers admitted on record to using overinflated footballs when he could. Do we just round out a fine there? Or, are the Patriots only in trouble because they got caught? This is why it's all about the hated in my opinion.
I wouldn't "trust" people on the Internet either. That's how you get catfished.
hfojvt
(37,573 posts)How many times do offensive lineman commit holding penalties? Doubtless more times than they get caught. If the ref sees it and throws the flag, they pay the penalty. If the ref doesn't see it, then they get that advantage.
There was a Packers-Bears game I saw once where a Bears player committed a 15 yard face mask penalty which the refs did not call. The result of the play was a Packers first down. The Bears challenged the call, and the play was brought back. It was decided the receiver was out of bounds. Which he was, but that face mask penalty would have given the Packers the first down anyway. The Packers ended up punting - and losing. That was a key drive. Had the refs made the right call, the Packers very likely would have won.
Was that cheating by the Bears? Not unless they paid the refs to not see things.
In much the same way, the refs are supposed to catch and replace under-inlfated balls, but did not. Again, I would say it is only cheating if the refs were paid to look the other way.
Then there was San Fransisco vs. Green Bay in the play offs. San Fransisco fumbled with 35 seconds left or something. Packers recovered. Game was over. Packers won.
Except the officials ruled, mistakenly, that he was down and that it was a no-fumble. Call could not be challenged either. Was there some kind of nationwide cry about how San Fransisco cheated? If there was it didn't get very far out of Wisconsin.
The real question here, to me, is not about the footballs, or the Patriots. What about the refs? Who handle the football on every play. They are the ones who missed the call.
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)it makes your teams cheating O.K.?
Good luck untying the logic knot.
Look, cheating is wrong m'kay.
dilby
(2,273 posts)Since no one on the team seems to know how the balls were under inflated the whole team needs to be punished with draft picks and fines. Since the coach can't control cheating on his team he needs to be suspended indefinitely from the NFL.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)Beat your wife ... 4 games.
Kill some dogs ... see you when you get out of jail.
rape some women ... brush it under the rug.
fuck with the pressure of the stupid ball ... banned for life.
dilby
(2,273 posts)If someone beat their wife during a game, killed some dogs at a game, raped a woman at a game I can guarantee they would be banned for life. This guy cheated at the game, it's not like he was caught cheating on his taxes.
Sure ....
It's a joke.
You don't ban people from sports because of BS "cheating", you fine them and take away picks and suspend for a few games.
By your judgement what do you do to a player who obviously commits a physical foul during the game? Put them in prison?
former9thward
(31,923 posts)The Seattle Seahawks lead the NFL in suspensions for performance-enhancing drugs since Pete Carroll became coach in 2010, research by ESPN Stats & Information shows.
Defensive end Bruce Irvin's four-game suspension, announced Friday, was the fifth during that span, according to research ESPN's Steve Martinez conducted using STATS PASS.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcwest/post/_/id/100145/seahawks-lead-in-ped-bans-under-carroll
dilby
(2,273 posts)Then yes he should, however it sounds like 5 players who made the decision for themselves. Way different than the two scandals that the Patriots have been involved in.
former9thward
(31,923 posts)So Carroll is responsible for "5 players who made the decision for themselves". You can't have it both ways. You do know his history at USC don't you?
Pete Carroll, USC and Scandal
http://www.bruinsnation.com/2006/6/26/113925/426
I guess all of those players "made the decision for themselves".
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)giving the rebuttal to the SOTU -- can't take it too seriously. The Bruins and USC are cross-town rivals.
Pete had open practices as a way to motivate his players to compete and to excite the fan base. I went to some of those practices myself back in his day at USC. That's where the lack of oversight charges started coming from. The open practices were also open to agents, etc. where they should not have been allowed.
Most of the other problems were from Reggie Bush's parent some 130 miles away when they were accepting favors from a convicted felon fraud who wanted to represent Bush as an agent in the NFL.
What Pete was doing wasn't really that scandalous except to Pete's enemies.
former9thward
(31,923 posts)Such an unfortunate guy! Trouble all around him but he had nothing to do with it!
R B Garr
(16,950 posts)and some of the other Admin around him were part of the problem with the NCAA. Garrett is one of USC's Heisman winners and is very connected; therefore, it looks like he really didn't take some of the allegations seriously, and some of the problems escalated because of his attitude about it and procrastination in responding.
Pete was really very collegiate, but his enthusiasm attracted people who took advantage of the openness and ultimately caused the "lack of institutional oversight" allegations.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Pete Carroll would be in federal prison if he had distributed drugs to players.
You keep posting an offense that was punished as justification for your boy Belicheat not to be punished. For his second cheating offense. Fail.
former9thward
(31,923 posts)No, I just enjoy the hypocrisy of Seattle fans.
dilby
(2,273 posts)I am not a Seahawks fan and don't care which team wins the Super Bowl. However there is a huge difference between the drug use of 5 players on one team and the complete corruption of two major cheating scandals that the Patriots had.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Punish as per the NFL rules. Simple. By the way, one of those suspended players, Browner, is playing for the Pats now.
former9thward
(31,923 posts)are playing now?
Pete Carroll, USC and Scandal
http://www.bruinsnation.com/2006/6/26/113925/426
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Deflect from cheating by talking about USC. Shameless.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_National_Football_League_videotaping_controversy
Deflect, deflect, deflect. Going to laugh my ass off when draft picks are taken away from the Pats again.
frylock
(34,825 posts)the players were suspended. punished. how many more pounds of flesh would you like to exact?
former9thward
(31,923 posts)I would not have suspended any of them. I am just against hypocrisy.
frylock
(34,825 posts)has Pete Carroll weighed in on the subject?
former9thward
(31,923 posts)Given his history...
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)There's no fighting it; lazy-ass sportswriters filling column inches and airtime are fueling it, and there's no fighting it.
Fuck it. Bring it. Or as I said:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/120451150
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)PAProgressive28
(270 posts)They broke into regular programming on the networks to show Brady's press conference. Mark Brunnell CRIED on ESPN after his presser. Meanwhile the Seahawks had the most PED suspensions last year and Aaron Rodgers has said he over-inflates the balls. It's a non-issue.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)Cry my a fucking river.
frylock
(34,825 posts)WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)as going for a guy's knees, or his skull.
Hm.
frylock
(34,825 posts)which I thought was a pretty fair analogy.
Sheldon Cooper
(3,724 posts)So this behavior is no surprise.
WilliamPitt
(58,179 posts)I'm sure he'll give a shit.
rbrnmw
(7,160 posts)Response to Sheldon Cooper (Reply #45)
RiffRandell This message was self-deleted by its author.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Johonny
(20,816 posts)The rule book states the balls aren't to be tampered with, the balls appear to be tampered with, the minimum fine per NFL rule is 25K per ball. It is in the rule book and since everyone in the NFL media is talking about it... it appears to be an issue. The Patriots coach and quarterback didn't just give interviews on said subject because it isn't an issue.
If they're willing to break this rule who is to say they still aren't illegally video taping signs from other teams... Oh no this is a huge issue and it won't go away all Superbowl week. In case you missed the Ray Rice issue; the NFL is hugely popular and everything NFL related is an issue in this country. It is going to be talked about.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)lpbk2713
(42,736 posts)Like AFC / NFC or the geography could even figure in somehow. Never know what motivates some brain processes.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)Cheating is cheating.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)But this "issue" is soooo lame.
global1
(25,219 posts)This is not about failed government as it is about hatred for the President. hmmmmmm........
Good example Repugs!!!!!!
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)That's why I think Canty from the Ravens needs to shut the fuck up about the integrity of the game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Lewis
I'm a huge Pats fan, I think the balls were under regulation and Brady should have came clean in that press conference.
I've been watching/listening to sports networks all day (did I ever mention I LOVE sports?) and it really isn't a big deal had he come clean.
Do you really think the Pats were the only team to video plays? That's a real fucking laugh.
By all means, keep showing Brady on the television. He's hot as fuck.
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)For Tom to ask, "who else here is married to a Brazilian supermodel?"
LMAO!
RiffRandell
(5,909 posts)According to Forbes, Tom Brady, Bundchens Patriot-anchoring, football-playing husband, made $31.3 million. Thats right, Bundchen out-earned her man by about $16 million. [Boston.com]
http://theweek.com/speedreads/447869/gisele-bundchen-makes-more-money-than-tom-brady
Lurker Deluxe
(1,036 posts)That, in definition, is a "first world problem".
grasswire
(50,130 posts)come on
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)In the 2nd half, Brady played with confirmed properly inflated balls and went at one point 9 for 9 in passing. It wasn't PSI on balls. Under inflation impeded his play?
Sheeeeeeeeeeee-it.
All winter long, we have temps in the 60s to 70s - a cold front comes through, temp goes to 30's, my underinflated tire light goes off every time. Fill them back up to recommended PSI, happens again next time.
What about gauge imperfection, what about pumping imperfection? Equipment issue?
What if this had never come up as issue before , so no one ever paid attention?
Refs and officials, the NFL game monitors of regulations, and the guys who handle the footballs more than QBs, noticed no problem?
But the NFL will make a determination -- that'll clear it all up, right?
onenote
(42,531 posts)one could surmise that the Colts somehow tampered with the footballs used by the Pats, causing Brady to perform much more poorly than he did with fully inflated footballs in the second half.
Of course that would be ridiculous, but some of the hyperbole surrounding this event isn't much less ridiculous.
IF it is proven that the Pats directly or indirectly tampered with the footballs, then they should be penalized in a manner commensurate with the harm that resulted. Since that harm was negligible based on the results, the fine specified in the rules seems approriate.
frylock
(34,825 posts)yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)The game was expected to be sloppy because of the weather conditions. The balls. Throwing, catching, carrying and kicking wet cold balls.
Didn't Brady throw an interception which triggered all this? It wasn't a perfect game for either team. Just the home team which plays in these exact conditions all the time had a better game.
Belichick said now he would have balls inflated to stipulated max, so if weather conditions caused drop in PSI, the footballs would hopefully remain in approved range.
frylock
(34,825 posts)and if weather was a factor, how do you explain the one football that was still pressurized at regulation?
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)than Patriot's footballs.
They certainly did not follow the exact same procedures, so another whole set of variables.
frylock
(34,825 posts)pnwmom
(108,952 posts)And the Colts balls were subjected to the exact same weather, and tested with the same equipment, and none of them were underweight.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)relative to where the balls were inflated, and selected by Brady, and tested by officials. I bet it wasn't 50 and a cold rain.
There are so many variables, and conditions, and equipment, and actions -- I think this calls for a change in rules. Why would we want a football that makes it harder to throw and catch, harder to carry, harder to kick?
Isn't football hard enough?
pnwmom
(108,952 posts)how the Colts balls, tested under the same conditions, didn't suffer the same effect from the change in temp.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)I don't know what process on footballs was carried out by visiting team.
Too many variables.
pnwmom
(108,952 posts)in the same manner as the Patriots' balls -- by league officials with league equipment. And only the Patriots' balls failed the test.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)the trivialness of this matter, the inconclusive nature, the fact Brady played better with regulation balls makes this a one off -- we'll look at this and see how to go forward.
pnwmom
(108,952 posts)The Colts first noticed this in a game in November. Who knows how many close games were placed with these squishy balls?
The Ravens lost by only 4 points. The squishy balls could have made the difference. We'll never know.
yallerdawg
(16,104 posts)Then why did Brady pass better and the Patriots play better with fully inflated regulation balls? The second half was 28-0.
And I bet if we go play by play, squishy balls would be, if even a real issue, just one of a hundred reasons the Ravens lost.
pnwmom
(108,952 posts)He thinks he plays better with balls at the low end (of acceptable), so ask him.
The Ravens lost only by 4 points. How come, if the Patriots were so much better, the game was so close?
napkinz
(17,199 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)The Patriots aren't exactly "first time offenders" when it comes to this sort of thing, so the backlash is at least a bit understandable...
Nye Bevan
(25,406 posts)So this whole thing is kind of self-perpetuating.
workinclasszero
(28,270 posts)Clearly the lack of two pounds of pressure in the footballs led to this score...45 to 7...LOLZ
pnwmom
(108,952 posts)that the balls seemed to be underweight in that game, too -- and they reported this at the time. Also, the Colts reported it after a game in November. This seems to be part of a pattern for the Patriots, and there's no way to know if it affected other close games.
rufus dog
(8,419 posts)Is this issue a bit overblown? Yes
Should the Pats be put through the ringer? Yes, a bs move, unneeded.
Should anyone be suspended? No
Should the NFL figure out a better policy? Yes.
pnwmom
(108,952 posts)about the spying, for instance.
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)Only the wealthy (tom brady) laugh at the reporter when asked about breaking the rules.
Rules are for chumps. I you aint cheating you don't want to win.
What about honor? What about fair play? What about sportsmanship?
Gone, gone, gone.
Cheating is the new norm.
Just ask wall street. Just ask a politician.
I'm so sick of cheaters that think the rules only apply to the other (read: poor saps) guy.
A poor, underpaid ballboy will take the blame.
Do you honestly think multi-millionaire brady gives 2 shits about that poor kid?
So, yes it DOES matter, if only to highlight the
breathtaking gall of these CHEATERS.
And NO the score doesn't matter. THEY CHEATED.
Nyc72dem
(63 posts)No matter how many times you type it. No proof. We will move on.
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)magically disappeared.
Must be a ne fan.
They CHEATED.
pnwmom
(108,952 posts)without disturbing even a single Colts ball.
Nothing to see here. Just move on.
Bettie
(16,058 posts)but, if a team cheats, they shouldn't keep the win. It is just wrong.
Marrah_G
(28,581 posts)Not sure why the Pats are hated, but maybe that is because I am a fan
flying rabbit
(4,622 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)and he is a genius when it comes to football. Just sayin'
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)The country suddenly 'hates' the Patriots. Has nothing to do with the integrity of the game or any other such nonsense...