It's not about football, dang it.

[DiverDave]

It's about cheating. Period.
Look, cheating is the new norm. Wall street, politicians, fast food restaurants...everyone.
If they can get away with it, it makes "good business sense"
Words like honor, integrity, fair play, and sportsmanship are quaint reminders of a bygone age.

It's not about football, it's about the breathtaking gall that tom brady can laugh it
off.
HONOR, INTEGRITY, FAIR PLAY.
Gone, and it's sad.

[Adrahil]

1. I honestly cannot get worked up over this.

It's pro sports. If you care, then more power to ya, but I think this is about as important as a beauty pageant contestant taping her boobs up.

[joeglow3]

5. Doesn't matter if you like pro sports or not

It DOES influence millions of people and you should be troubled with those shaking off cheating.

[Adrahil]

7. Wanna get worked up over cheating?

Then get worked up over the gerrymandering of Congressional districts.

That has a LOT more influence over our lives that feetsball.

[joeglow3]

11. I am able to identify cheating in multiple areas.

I really doubt you are so easily distracted that you can only recognize cheating in one area at a time.

[DiverDave]

12. huh, I just asked that very question

great minds and all that...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026105222

[Adrahil]

73. <high five> n/t

[upaloopa]

53. If millions of people will now cheat because some

footballs are under inflated we really are fucked!

[joeglow3]

54. So, we ignore acts because no single event could trigger change?

I think even you see the flaws in that logic.

[upaloopa]

55. I don't give a shit about footballs inflated or not.

Pro football is entertainment and I am not entertained by it.
It ain't no big thing man. All this talk about footballs is to sell more entertainment and ad time.

[joeglow3]

59. It is a multi billion dollar business that is cheating to manipulate results

I doubt you would be saying this if it was AIG or Wells Fargo or United Healthcare.

[upaloopa]

63. It isn't important no matter how many billions

It only touches your life because you tune in.

[DiverDave]

8. cant you see that it aint about sports?

The concept of honorable actions and intentions is dead.
Fair play is for suckers.
If someone can steal from you and not even think it's wrong...it
affects us all, in every business transaction you make.
Cheating isn't limited to sports, and we are
all diminished by it.

[aikoaiko]

2. If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

My point being that cheating has always been part of competitive sports (although not by everyone) even in days of yore.

In a game like football, every foul is an act of cheating that is sometimes punished and sometimes not.

[Agschmid]

3. Yup.

[on point]

13. I think you are completely wrong

Saying used to be 'it's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game'

Since raygun and the predatory rah rah win at all costs degradation of our society this has changed to 'it only matters if you win or lose, not how you play the game'

This has created a culture of pervasive corruption, without ethics or personal integrity

[aikoaiko]

20. What we say and what we do are very different.

I don't think you've competed in even moderately competitive sports.

[on point]

38. Obviously you don't understand what personal integrity means

Regardless of the domain, sports, business, politics, or otherwise.

Thanks for making my case!

[aikoaiko]

46. Of course I understand integrity, but I'm not buying your glory days of yore myth

[Agschmid]

4. Once you know who cheated let me know...

[joeglow3]

14. The organization cheated. Doesn't matter if you can pinpoint who.

The company has an obligation to put in place checks and balances to ensure cheating doesn't happen. You would NEVER let a bank or an insurance company off the hook if they said they couldn't identify the individual person who cheated.

[Agschmid]

15. If by the organization you mean the NFL then sure.

[joeglow3]

16. Ohhh. So the patriots can't help it and HAVE to cheat

Thus, it is the NFL's fault they didn't stop them from cheating. Fucking amazing.

[Agschmid]

17. Well if you think this is such a big deal...

It sure would make some sense to have a few more rules than "it should weigh something in this range".

If this was actually a big deal the league would provide the balls... Sure seems like they (the NFL) don't really care.

[joeglow3]

26. Seems like Patriots apologists refuse to admit cheating

The sad thing is, it had ZERO impact on the outcome. It was completely unnecessary. However, you can't rationalize why cheating is okay, no big deal, etc. they CLEARLY violated a rule of the NFL.

[Agschmid]

32. I'm absolutely NOT a Patriots apologist...

I just think it's rediculous this is as big of a "story" as it is.

Meanwhile Aaron Hernandez is not even mentioned anymore, that guy killed people. Stories like that are the BIG deal.

That's what I care about.

[joeglow3]

33. Most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time

The idea that I can't discuss this because someone did something worse is fucking stupid.

[Agschmid]

34. I'm done.

I've got 36 balls to deflate before next Sunday.

[joeglow3]

37. Rumor is the Ravens tipped people off.

If that turns out to be true, I would not be shocked. But, I bet it would have just happened by accident multiple weeks in a row.

[Agschmid]

40. Nah I mean I've only done it the last two games.

Heard it here first... It was me y'all. Someone call Sportcenter, I'll update my Facebook so they have a good pic to put on the news.

[joeglow3]

43. I think you may set a record for most defense mechanisms in one thread

[Agschmid]

64. Well I try.

[DiverDave]

19. I guess you didnt get my drift

We are all diminished by cheating.
Not just in sports, but everyday life.
I could give 2 fucks about football air pressure.
I DO CARE about the world in which my kids will live.

So, did that clear it up?

[Agschmid]

22. Did someone cheat here?

It's likely we won't ever really know what happened.

[joeglow3]

27. But we DO know an organization cheated and many want to ignore it.

[Agschmid]

30. Yup the entire NFL.

[joeglow3]

31. And yet, it didn't manifest itself in the Colts balls

I wish you would step back and realize how sad your position looks.

[4Q2u2]

68. Ever Hear of Suck for Luck

Colts bagged their season to get a very high draft pick.
Steelers of the 70's and Niners of the 80's were on Steroids and HGH.
As they said in the MASH movie, "Their ringer just recognized our ringer."

[joeglow3]

72. Again, I am confident you know how weak your rationalization is.

[Skittles]

66. I get your drift, DiverDave

fuck these people who think integrity is only for suckers

[on point]

6. Nailed it. We now have a culture of cheating.

So what if we cheated on US and international law and 'tortured some folks', it is just how we do things these days after all. Don't look back, look forward and ignore the cheating

[Botany]

9. +1

Before the game 36 footballs are weighed, measured, and have their air pressure tested
after which 12 are given to one team, 12 are given to the other team, and the last 12 are
kept by the refs for the kicking game and 11 of the 12 balls that the Pats got all wound up
with less air pressure then is required by league standards. Somebody w/ the Pats let air
out of the balls or did something to them end of story. They were trying to cheat.

[trumad]

10. it's actually all about the bass.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

21. gone fishin'

[sharp_stick]

18. Gone and it's sad?

where the hell have you been?

Everything was all peachy keen until Tom Brady deflated some balls (even though there is to date zero evidence of that). It was so good up until Belichick came in and ruined such a beautiful golden age.

Where exactly is your anger about the overuse of performance enhancing drugs through the history of drugs and football? There were at least 37 of them in 2014 on at least 17 different teams.
Where is your CAPS LOCK YELLING about honor and integrity over the Saints putting a bounty on players it wanted to take out just a few years ago?

I laugh at your mock outrage when using words like integrity, honor and fair play in a league littered with drug users, wife and child beaters, racists and murderers.

[Agschmid]

23. This.

[trumad]

24. good post

[IDemo]

25. Agreed entirely

[DiverDave]

28. WOW! laugh away.

Man it BURNS. LOL, just tears me up that someone who I don't know, and more importantly, doesn't know me takes
me to task. My granny used to say "if you don't have anything nice to say"... maybe you know the rest.

I had lots of outrage over those and the countless other acts of cheating.
Save your sanctimonious bullshit for someone who cares.

Oh, and my kids will have to navigate this fucking cesspool, so yeah, I've cared for a while.

[joeglow3]

29. I didn't see someone excusing the use of drugs

I have, however, seen a lot of tool sheds rationalize, excuse, minimize, etc. cheating by the Patriots. However, this is just one more example in a line of defense mechanisms to avoid something as simple as admitting the Pats cheated.

[sharp_stick]

42. I never said he excused the use of drugs

what I found laughable is that he equated the end of honor and integrity in the NFL to 2 p.s.i. in some footballs.

The NFL hasn't ever been a light of honor and integrity. There's been cheating and foul play since the day it formed. So many of those incidents make this entire episode nothing more than a soap opera perfectly designed for the dead two weeks between the Championship game and the Super Bowl.

There is a rule book and it spells out the penalties for infractions of those rules. I suggest we wait and see what happens

[sharp_stick]

49. Then you shouldn't make it about football

or sports in general.

You say cheating is the new norm and use Tom Brady as an example.

With the term "it's about the breathtaking gall that tom brady can laugh it off." You make it about football. "Breathtaking gall"...really? That's a little dramatic.

Hey I get it, Tom Brady can be an abrasive arrogant dick, it's OK not to like him. To make him the central part of your thesis that the world is going to hell in a handbasket is a mistake though.

Football has always been about cheating, sports in general have always been about cheating. Find a sport and a time when there wasn't a cheating scandal? I'll bet the Aztecs were cheating their asses off in the ball games down in Mexico.

There never was a bygone age of honor integrity and fair play.

For future consideration I prefer green crayons... Crayola, none of that knockoff shit.

[progressoid]

35. Uh, well.

Wish the general public could have gotten this worked up about, oh, let's say, Iran Contra. Or election fraud in 2000. Or a myriad of other things that don't involve their immediate entertainment.

[Arugula Latte]

36. I get what you're saying, but it's not like I'd expect any integrity from professional sports

in the first place.

[DiverDave]

47. I guess my title wasnt clear

It's not about football.
It's about our society and cheating as a normal everyday activity.
Sorry if a lot of folks didn't get it...

[jeff47]

48. That would be the entire point.

We no longer expect integrity. From anyone.

[Kurska]

39. It was never there

People have been cheating since the dawn of time. If there is rule that can be bent, it will be bent.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

41. It's about the entertainment industry and sales.

[bluedigger]

44. Cheating or sabotage?

Tom Brady has thrown over 140 interceptions in his career, but this one time, someone noticed something amiss. And after the problem was corrected, Brady's performance improved. I have trouble believing they chose a playoff game against an opponent they have utterly dominated recently to implement some new subterfuge of questionable competitive advantage. Multiple parties have motive to have done something, including the Colts and the Ravens' Harbough. When you have proof of anything to support your assertion, get back to me. Until then, I'll just have to live with the mystery of how it happened.

[Pacifist Patriot]

50. I have a lot of questions about this too.

Especially if the facts I've been given are correct.

My husband and I discussed several scenarios over breakfast and all of them have logical breakdowns.

Is it true that all 11 balls were deflated to the same pressure? If so, wouldn't that level of consistency be pretty hard to accomplish, especially without being spotted doing it in the two hours between ref inspection and game time?

Refs, especially at that level, know what a properly inflated ball feels like. Why didn't they detect a problem earlier in the game? I'm a rather low level (level 8) soccer referee and absolutely can tell when a ball is either over or under inflated the second I pick it up. I would expect a higher degree of experience for an NFL ref handling a football.

Frankly I don't understand why the two teams don't supply 12 balls each and then they get mixed together for the ref to pull out one at random when needed. Seems like a pretty darned easy way to maintain ball integrity.

ETA: No one need accuse me of being a Pats apologist. My football is played with a proper round ball.

[bluedigger]

56. There's plenty of reasonable doubt to throw around thanks to the NFL's lack of transparency.

We don't know the initial tested PSI of either team's footballs (nod to Maddow ) nor the PSI of the Colts' footballs after reinspection. Just that they "passed" and 11/12 of the Pats' did not. Absent a confession or Zapruder film demonstrating malfeasance, we will never know.

As for why it works this way with the balls, it's because NFL QB's, including Brady and Peyton Manning, lobbied the NFL for it, and were rewarded, because the NFL wants to be an offence oriented league. Most of their rule changes have favored the offence in recent years, with a passing head nod to safety. The rules committee will no doubt revisit this in the off season, as they should.

[4Q2u2]

69. Sting OP

Brady stated that he picked out 24 balls, which is normal in inclement weather conditions. The 12 left were the ones used in the second half. Part way through the first half, the refs started using the Colts balls for the Pats Offense. If you are the Colts and you know you are going to complain or have already complained about the Pats Footballs, would you not guarantee that your Footballs were beyond reproach. It would be pretty stupid to sandbag someone then be caught in your own net. So maybe the Colts balls were legit for this game only.

http://larrybrownsports.com/football/patriots-used-colts-footballs-in-first-half/253305

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/21/report-colts-had-inflation-concerns-in-november-matchup-with-patriots/

On a side note, the game in November was at Indy, the ball boys are supplied by the home team. So why would an Indy employee help the Pats by making the balls softer?

[underpants]

57. Very good points. I have an answer on one of them.

QB's have a very specific way they want the main football to be. Yes the refs try to keep the same ball in play as much as possible for each team. Brad Johnson - won a Super Bowl at Tampa- has admitted that he paid someone $100 a game to deflate footballs to his liking. Matt Lienart - Heisman winner, partied his way out if the league- has said that every QB in the league doctored the main football in some way except Kurt Warner - he wore a glove.

The reason the NFL doesn't do the sensible thing of just having a random mix of footballs is because the league wants more scoring.

Now the NFL did institute the K ball for kickers and punters because they had gone crazy doctoring the footballs. They each would have their go to ball that might be overinflated or even microwaved ( I think to make the leather thinner - never understood that one).

These are just tricks of the trade that are normally just "not seen" officially. Like pitchers late in the season cheating up an inch or two so they don't actually step off the rubber or basketball players contesting a shot nicking the elbow of the shooter as they go up. Little tricks like that.

[underpants]

51. I thought it was about balls

BALLS!

[Pacifist Patriot]

52. The two greatest things to come out of this has got to be...

the punny headlines and countless grown adults giggling like my little boys over the word "balls."

[KMOD]

71. it is!

"I'm not worried about no balls. Maybe Tom's worried about balls, but I ain't." - Rob Gronkowski

[KamaAina]

58. You're absolutely right.

For all we know, the Seahorses are back on PEDs and found a way to get around drug testing.

[missingthebigdog]

60. Do you consider ALL rule violations cheating?

What strikes me about this is that violation of this rule is considered cheating, while violations of many other rules are just part of the game.

Is roughing the passer cheating? Pass interference? Block in the back?

And what about when a team rushes to snap the ball after a questionable catch? Is that cheating?

It's a GAME. It has rules, and penalties for breaking those rules. Players make choices about whether breaking the rule is worth the penalty. I am confident that the NFL will appropriately (per the rule book) punish whoever the culprit turns out to be.

Turning this into some example of the decline of society is an overreaction, in my opinion.

[Agschmid]

65. Yup.

[zappaman]

61. It's about football. n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

67. Thought I'd add this to drive it home....

[GeorgeGist]

70. Corruption is Kool.