General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Sounds like someone hates children. Crotch fruit?
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)Jesus Malverde
(10,274 posts)Snark to prove how smart the authors are while reassuring the "vaxers" that they are not "cretins" for pumping their kids up with ineffective flu vaccines, etc.
Public messaging #fail, health industrial complex #win
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)useful. It wouldn't convince anyone to get vaccinated. So that's probably not the goal.
Tumbulu
(6,272 posts)unfortunately, since it only makes things worse.
Stargazer09
(2,132 posts)This is just someone venting their anger over the idiots who believe the internet over science.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)to "reach" them, since you (and others') minds are made up -- only to denigrate them, which just solidifies their beliefs and isolation further.
Well done.
Stargazer09
(2,132 posts)Then nothing anyone else says to them will be effective.
As I said, the OP was done by someone frustrated with people who refuse to vaccinate their children without a valid medical reason. I did not say I agreed with the tactic, although I do agree with the sentiment.
The OP was not made to sway anyone's opinion.
Honestly, I don't have a lot of hope for those who ignore the science behind vaccinations. They are putting others at risk. I want them to feel isolated. I want them to be isolated, away from the truly vulnerable members of our society (babies and those with true medical concerns, such as cancer and weakened immune systems). I want them to wake up and realize that they are a danger to themselves and others. If telling them that I feel that way "just solidifies their beliefs and isolation further," then I've proven my point. They can't be reached, and there's no point in trying.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Idiocy rarely needs validation or solidification. Idiots are rarely swayed by science, let alone giggles. Idiocy, due to its own existence, does beg to be mocked.
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)
enlightenment
(8,830 posts)NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)Christ. 
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)It's more about inoculating others against the stupidity so they don't mistake it for intelligence.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)Most people don't like that kind of thing, though 8th grade boys may love it. They're all about the personal insults, but most people aren't.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)How fucking stupid ant-vaxxers morons are.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)
Dr Hobbitstein
(6,568 posts)for people who call them out on their ridiculous bullshit.
Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)Lather, rinse, repeat.
Response to Jesus Malverde (Reply #1)
Orrex This message was self-deleted by its author.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Yeesh.
JoeyT
(6,785 posts)someone that called them crotch fruit or someone that wanted them to die of easily preventable diseases, I know which one I'd pick.
Chemisse
(30,809 posts)This is not the way you reach people who need to understand more information about the vaccine choices they've made. This is the way you revel in your own hatred.
Codeine
(25,586 posts)Willful, deliberate fucking idiots. This isn't about reaching anybody, it's venting, which is fine. Sometimes you just have to bitch about the morons.
bobclark86
(1,415 posts)
Iggo
(47,549 posts)
progressoid
(49,978 posts)Chemisse
(30,809 posts)If I were on the fence, I would fall off it in my haste to distance myself from someone who would write like this.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)When referring to children that were vaccinated or too young to be vaccinated they were called "kids" or "children".
Were I on the fence I also wouldn't be listening to anyone that referred to vaccination as "vaxed" or "unvaxed". When trying to sound like someone with superior medial knowledge you blow it using made up medical terminology.
Why did they even bother with the information? The disgusting tone and made up medical terminology only makes the information appear suspect when it isn't. Apparently, whoever wrote this crap is more interested in ranting about how much they hate anti-"vaxers" than using beneficial information to encourage people to vaccinate their kids.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Frankly, it's so bad it looks like a parody. Here, anti-vaxxers, here's what to show your friends if you want them to dig in their heels and refuse to vaccinate, and even convince others not to vaccinate. Good job.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Acts 2:30 KJ
Chemisse
(30,809 posts)is a really disgusting word, and loins isn't.
While 'fruit of my loins' is a little too graphic for me in describing my own offspring, I don't find it offensive.
Alittleliberal
(528 posts)You don't just get to arbitrarily decide what words are acceptable because they make you feel better.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)to *them*. the poster says the name-calling and use of words like "crotchfruit" don't convince people to vaccinate their children.
you apparently think it's a winning tactic.
ya know n****r, K**e and s**c are 'just words' too. But they're used as insults, to denigrate others, and everyone knows it.
Some people, those born in a barn, don't care, and loudly assert their right to insult whomever they please. Fine, but don't expect to win over others to your POV.
Chemisse
(30,809 posts)Different words that mean or describe the same thing have different connotations. I'm sure you can imagine some other words to describe genitalia. Would they be acceptable here?
I would say, given the reaction of many people in this thread, that 'crotch fruit' and 'fruit of my loins' have different connotations. It's not something that I decided arbitrarily.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)How is one poetry and another vulgar?
When it is referring to exactly the same thing?
Chemisse
(30,809 posts)I'm sure you can figure it out.
alphafemale
(18,497 posts)I have romped in places you obviously dread and see as icky.
And then I licked myself clean.
And it was good.
Your socks don't exactly match.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)and you know it.
eridani
(51,907 posts)Being a Norman invader speaking a language derived from Latin = good.
Saxon victim of that conquest = bad.
NuclearDem
(16,184 posts)...when the subject is about exposing children to potentially fatal diseases.
Idiot parents who refuse to vaccinate their kids are doing far worse to their kids than any meanie words on the internet.
Response to Chemisse (Reply #3)
Orrex This message was self-deleted by its author.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)But yeah, it allows some people to feel superior. Some little people.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Study: You Can't Change an Anti-Vaxxer's Mind
The study, by political scientist Brendan Nyhan of Dartmouth College* and three colleagues, adds to a large body of frustrating research on how hard it is to correct false information and get people to accept indisputable facts. Nyhan and one of his coauthors, Jason Reifler of the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, are actually the coauthors of a much discussed previous study showing that when politically conservative test subjects read a fake newspaper article containing a quotation of George W. Bush asserting that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, followed by a factual correction stating that this was not actually true, they believed Bush's falsehood more strongly afterwards—an outcome that Nyhan and Reifler dubbed a "backfire effect."
Unfortunately, the vaccine issue is prime terrain for such biased and motivated reasoning; recent research even suggests that a conspiratorial, paranoid mindset prevails among some vaccine rejectionists. To try to figure out how to persuade them, in the new study researchers surveyed a representative sample of 1,759 Americans with at least one child living in their home. A first phase of the study determined their beliefs about vaccines; then, in a follow-up, respondents were asked to consider one of four messages (or a control message) about vaccine effectiveness and the importance of kids getting the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/vaccine-denial-psychology-backfire-effect
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)I am a contributor to The Upshot at The New York Times (March 2014-). I previously served as a media critic for Columbia Journalism Review (November 2011-February 2014). I also blog at brendan-nyhan.com and tweet at @BrendanNyhan. I've been called "one of the most thought-provoking writers about politics on the web", part of "a new breed of conscientious political science bloggers" who are "creating reputational hazards to seat-of-the-pants punditry," and a "political science shaolin warrior".
From 2001-2004, Ben Fritz, Bryan Keefer, and I edited Spinsanity, a non-partisan watchdog of political spin that was syndicated in Salon (2002) and the Philadelphia Inquirer (2004). In 2004, we published All the President's Spin, a New York Times bestseller that Amazon.com named one of the ten best political books of the year.
Previously, I was a marketing and fundraising consultant for Benetech, a Silicon Valley technology nonprofit, and Deputy Communications Director of the Bernstein for US Senate campaign in Nevada. I grew up in Mountain View, CA and attended Swarthmore College.
http://www.dartmouth.edu/~nyhan/
Not particularly interested in arguing the point with you either, as we all know that "anti-anti-vaxers" are completely resistant to dialogue and have the peculiar habit of insulting anyone who doesn't agree with them in every aspect.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)It shows that the particular strategies tested were not effective which, on reading the article, doesn't really surprise me. It doesn't rule out the possibility that other communication strategies could potentially be more effective. That interpretation of the study is actually pretty unscientific.
tabasco
(22,974 posts)to keep children from getting dangerous diseases ARE SUPERIOR to brain-dead morons who put their children and other children at risk.
Deal with it in your own special way.
Donald Ian Rankin
(13,598 posts)I think that people are heavily influenced by what opinions they see treated as "acceptable" and "beyond the pale", and that if opposition to vaccination were regularly met with this kind of abuse it would become much rarer.
Chemisse
(30,809 posts)The more harshly someone shrieks about something, the more defensive the opponents become.
The next thing you know, there is only anger and increasing extremism. There is no middle ground, no nuance, only your side and their side. Many of our issues have become like this - gun control, for example - and it just doesn't help. Once polarization happens, there can be no dialogue, no education, no merging of opinions, no work toward solutions.
In that sense, I think the "vaxxers" have helped to alienate and radicalize the "anti-vaxxers", all of which is contributing to the spread of preventable diseases in this country today.
Tumbulu
(6,272 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)Study: You Can't Change an Anti-Vaxxer's Mind
The study, by political scientist Brendan Nyhan of Dartmouth College* and three colleagues, adds to a large body of frustrating research on how hard it is to correct false information and get people to accept indisputable facts. Nyhan and one of his coauthors, Jason Reifler of the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, are actually the coauthors of a much discussed previous study showing that when politically conservative test subjects read a fake newspaper article containing a quotation of George W. Bush asserting that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, followed by a factual correction stating that this was not actually true, they believed Bush's falsehood more strongly afterwards—an outcome that Nyhan and Reifler dubbed a "backfire effect."
Unfortunately, the vaccine issue is prime terrain for such biased and motivated reasoning; recent research even suggests that a conspiratorial, paranoid mindset prevails among some vaccine rejectionists. To try to figure out how to persuade them, in the new study researchers surveyed a representative sample of 1,759 Americans with at least one child living in their home. A first phase of the study determined their beliefs about vaccines; then, in a follow-up, respondents were asked to consider one of four messages (or a control message) about vaccine effectiveness and the importance of kids getting the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/vaccine-denial-psychology-backfire-effect
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 24, 2015, 01:03 AM - Edit history (2)
By which I mean climate change denial. Thanks for posting
Chemisse
(30,809 posts)I think the effort to convince people of something is itself alarming to those who are wary of reassurances. When someone is trying to convince you of something, you may become suspicious that certain facts are being glossed over in the effort to prove a point.
Rather than pushing education on people who have refused to vaccinate their kids, instead they should be presented with impartial information. There are risks and benefits to being vaccinated (although autism is not among the risks).
When my children were little, I was informed of these risks. I was readily convinced that the benefits of preventing a serious disease far outweighed the risks, and I didn't hesitate to approve the vaccinations. Nobody threw me a sales pitch, nobody told me I would be a terrible mother if I didn't get the shots; they presented the facts and I made the logical choice. If I had been barraged with pro-vaccine dogma, it probably would have made me suspicious.
It would be interesting to see that option added to a study such as this.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)I also didn't experience any pro-vaccine dogma, and I hope Pediatricians aren't proceeding with such.
I can understand some concern with some of the newer vaccines, ex: Chicken pox, HPV vaccine. My children did have them, but I'm not sure those are absolutely necessary. It would be nice to eradicate Chicken Pox, and although it can be fatal, most of us older people did survive it. I can see some worried about long term chances with Shingles, no guarantees here, but I would recommend it anyway as I don't find it particularly harmful. My youngest also received a vaccine, I can't remember what it was, and I was skeptical, but went along with it. That vaccine was removed due to complications. This would have been around 1999 or so. It had a side effect of intestinal blockage or something. So yeah, some of the newer ones should be met with skepticism, but certainly not dismissed outright.
Everyone should be educated before they make medical decisions concerning their children, but the standard vaccines, DPT, Rubella, etc. have been around for years and are absolutely safe. To make a big deal out of those and refuse them is very problematic.
It's nice to see a nuanced opinion on the topic.
I think, given that many anti-vaccine parents are well-educated, it may be the cheerleader approach that puts them off and makes them think twice about vaccines.
While I wonder if the deadliness of measles and chicken pox is not overblown (it's easy to wonder such a thing when it was so commonplace when I was a child - we all had them - and I never heard of a child dying from them, although we were protected from such unpleasant information in those days), the only one of the childhood vaccines that I would not give my kids if they were little now, is the hepatitis B for newborns (unless, of course, there was a risk factor involved).
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)the flu, and as a rule I just try to minimize medications. But my Dr. mentioned that I may be ok, but I may make babies or elderly folks sick, who could potentially die from it. It was a good point so I got the shot.
If he had acted irritated, rude or condescending I would have wondered what kind of bug he had up his ass and discounted his advice while suspecting he had some other motive than empowering me by educating me.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)...Would you? This is a response to the arrogant "anti-vax" person saying, "I don't understand why you want me to vaccinate my child. Yours is vaccinated. What do you care?" ("la-de-da!" tone of voice and "HA! I won that argument there!" implied.)
THAT is what this is a response to. And it's important it be this way because if it isn't, the those WATCHING an listening, may say, "Well, gosh, that was a good point."
You may not be able to change the anti person with this, but you will change the mind of those on the fence if you make it seem like the anti is not only wrong, wrong, wrong, but also likely to end up infecting their own children, but other people's children, the ones too young for the vaccine.
They're what "vaccinate" proponents are fighting for right now. To stem the anti tide and stop them from gaining more adherents. And yes, I think this could do it for *some.* Right or wrong, people *DO* side with those who don't merely have good points in an argument, but a take-no-prisoners attitude. Just as Obama won the State of the Union with his one "I won 'em both" remark rather than any other points he might have made. That nailed it. And this "nails" it.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)Only objective independent reasoned information will work with me. Anybody that tries to sell me with high pressure sales tactics is more likely to end up with a boot up his ass.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)This rant against those unwilling to vaccinate their kids apparently hit some sort of button with you, because you're taking it as a personal attack, as if it was meant for you. And it's so not. You haven't boasted to anyone that their kid is vaccinated so why should you vaccinate yours, have you? You haven't said to anyone that you know more than doctors about vaccinations, have you? You haven't said that vaccinations cause autism and you know this is true because you read it on the internet/heard it from certain celebrities and anyone who says otherwise is part of a conspiracy by the drug companies...have you?
If not, then you and your boot can stand down. No one means for you to read this and take it personally. No one is going to send this to you in order to change your mind on any vaccine. If you really are, as you say, willing to listen to reasoned information, then I ask you to step back, cool down and do so now, with me. Because you seem to have ignored everything I said in order to repeat yourself.
This rant is for the asshole who is denying all reasoned arguments, and if not ranted at will lead idiots into stupidity because those idiots will mistake his assholeness as strength and rightness. In other words, this is an "Emperor has no clothes" situation. You, who can be told the Emperor has no clothes, and see it, don't need to be presented with this rant. But someone who is wondering if he *should* believe the Emperor has clothes because everyone is saying it, THAT person needs to hear someone say, loudly and unambiguously, "The Emperor has no clothes!" Otherwise, he will start having trouble seeing what's right in front of his eyes.
Am I making sense?
yeoman6987
(14,449 posts)However finding out it is only 38 percent effective is not going to help the numbers for next year.
kcr
(15,315 posts)This is just what you'd want to show anti-vaxxers if you want to make the problem worse. If I were an anti-vaxxer, I'd be thrilled.
Chemisse
(30,809 posts)Nutty and vicious Republican put-downs.
And the LAST think they make me want to do is convert to a Republican - LOL!!
alarimer
(16,245 posts)It's been shown that when you challenge people's well-entrenched beliefs with the facts, they did in ever further.
No amount of reasoning with these people is going to work. Because they lack the ability to reason.
I think maybe banning the unvaccinated (by choice) from public arena might get through to them.
The Green Manalishi
(1,054 posts)taking the kids away from any and all anti-vaxxers.
Which I would be OK with. Anyone stupid and evil enough to not vaccinate their children shouldn't be allowed near any of them anyway.
morningfog
(18,115 posts)Science, reason, decency and facts can't reach them. Shaming is all that is left.
Thinkingabout
(30,058 posts)I do not see any need to pat the anti vaxers on the back and say "job well done".
Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)
1000words This message was self-deleted by its author.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)That family will never have to deal with the frustration of legally going after the government to be re-imbursed for the brain injury, paralysis, migraine headaches, chronic colitis, peanut allergy, and death that vaccines can cause:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/vin-suprynowicz/2-billion-paid-out-vaccine-injuries-kids
From the above link:
Let us see whether we can locate anyone else who shares the "consistently erroneous opinion" that vaccinations can cause serious injuries - including injuries to infant brains and their development.
At www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html we find the website of the U.S. Health Resources and Services Administration. There we're informed that under a 1988 law - championed by liberal lion Ted Kennedy - the federal Vaccine Injury Compensation Program was created as "a no-fault alternative to the traditional tort system for resolving vaccine injury claims that provides compensation to people found to be injured by certain vaccines."
You'll search quite a while to find out how much this trust fund - financed by a tax on vaccine makers - has paid out to shield Big Pharma from such meritorious lawsuits. For a short cut, visit Vactruth.com at http://tinyurl.com/8b8tgo9, where you'll learn that said federal agency "held a public meeting of the FDA's Advisory Committee on Childhood Vaccines (ACCV) in Rockville, Maryland, September 2-3, 2010, at which several charts were distributed. The chart below ... indicates just how pervasive and costly vaccine damage actually is in dollars and cents.
"Petitioners' Award Amounts for fiscal years 1989 thru 2010 totaled almost Two Billion Dollars ... representing 2,503 awards. ... "In excess of an additional Forty-six Million Dollars ... was paid out for Attorneys' Fees/Costs Payments, which probably represented an additional 2,293 claims that were dismissed." So, goodness me. Why is the federal government paying out billions to people "found to be injured by certain vaccines" if the theory that "shots cause brain defects in children ... has been soundly disproved by extensive medical research," as our letter writer contends?
####
MohRokTah
(15,429 posts)
REP
(21,691 posts)Please ignore that migraine and colitis run in my family before vaccines were available GIVE ME MONEY
JDPriestly
(57,936 posts)I know the mother of a baby who got whooping cough this past year. The baby had had its first vaccination, so it did not die or have to go to the hospital. Childhood diseases can kill. That's why scientists developed the vaccines for them.
Horrors! Get your kids vaccinated.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)On Fri Jan 23, 2015, 09:28 PM an alert was sent on the following post:
Why would your un-vaccinated kids be a threat to my vaccinated kids?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026129350
REASON FOR ALERT
This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.
ALERTER'S COMMENTS
This meme is full of really ugly insults. "Crotch fruit" in particular is a slap in the face to every parent on DU, whether or not they support vaccination.
The intent of this OP is clearly to inflame. Please consider hiding.
Thanks.
You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Jan 23, 2015, 09:39 PM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.
Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Yep, this is over the line scare tactics almost as bad as the anti-vaxxers themselves. Have a little more class kpete.
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: OP is a lot more mild than one I'd write on this topic.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: It's very tacky, but I don't believe it's hide worthy.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: It's just rude.
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Post is pretty vile but I prefer to err on the side of free expression. Sometimes I miss unrec. Best way to handle this is to let it sink like the useless stone it is.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.
I was juror 3.
Tumbulu
(6,272 posts)if you want to change someone's mind, do not begin with insults.
This is beyond stupid.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Study: You Can't Change an Anti-Vaxxer's Mind
The study, by political scientist Brendan Nyhan of Dartmouth College* and three colleagues, adds to a large body of frustrating research on how hard it is to correct false information and get people to accept indisputable facts. Nyhan and one of his coauthors, Jason Reifler of the University of Exeter in the United Kingdom, are actually the coauthors of a much discussed previous study showing that when politically conservative test subjects read a fake newspaper article containing a quotation of George W. Bush asserting that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, followed by a factual correction stating that this was not actually true, they believed Bush's falsehood more strongly afterwards—an outcome that Nyhan and Reifler dubbed a "backfire effect."
Unfortunately, the vaccine issue is prime terrain for such biased and motivated reasoning; recent research even suggests that a conspiratorial, paranoid mindset prevails among some vaccine rejectionists. To try to figure out how to persuade them, in the new study researchers surveyed a representative sample of 1,759 Americans with at least one child living in their home. A first phase of the study determined their beliefs about vaccines; then, in a follow-up, respondents were asked to consider one of four messages (or a control message) about vaccine effectiveness and the importance of kids getting the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccine.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/02/vaccine-denial-psychology-backfire-effect
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)both ways. Some become militant, some are more pragmatic, some just don't really care that much. I've seen rabid anti-vaxxers change their mind and vice versa. All that article states is the usual method of showing stories of babies sick with diseases and quoting statistics doesn't work. We know that already. Look at when you try to argue with republicans about the economy (by the way, it's interesting to note most anti-vaxxers I know are FAR lefties) they will deny everything you tell them. Go ahead and show a republican a chart of the stock market under democratic and republican presidents. They will pretend they don't know what the hell you are talking about. Why? Because they have a narrative in their head and you are confronting them with facts...most people would rather deny those facts than lose face. Remember, our culture is one of winner takes all. No one wants to lose. No one wants to admit defeat. The cognitive dissonance is huge. The proper way to go about it is never in a confrontational matter. People don't take kindly to pontification. Ever.
The way to get anti-vaxxers to vaccinate are to offer free, separate vaccines, counseling, follow up if vaccine is refused, put them in contact with families who do vaccinate (because most anti-vaxxers I used to know are only friends with other like-minded people) and befriend them. I'm pretty sure calling their kids crotch fruit and using insults won't do it. There are ways to get people to change their minds, but it generally takes patience and tolerance. I doubt that was part of the study.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)establishing rapport, expressing empathy, asking parents what their particular concerns are, and listening in a respectful manner, might be more effective ways to approach this issue, and might end up producing more positive results? It might be worth doing a study on. 
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)'anti-vaxxers,' unlike any other group of people in history, CAN NEVER CHANGE THEIR MINDS. They're especially vile, worse than hitler, so they must be insulted as often as possible.
so there.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)Who think they know more than scientists or doctors because they are THE best parents to walk the Earth and if Oprah has a guest on who says "I don't know about all these vaccines, I mean who knows what's really in them?", well then, dammit they are better off being "safe than sorry" because nothing but the best for their kids and did I mention they are THE best parents on the planet and only THE best parents know how to take care of their children because doctors...phhhft!
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)madville
(7,408 posts)I believe that a majority of the members here own firearms. Not comparable at all.
I would equate anti-vaccination folks more with people that have unprotected sex when they know they have an STD. Selfish, foolish and a danger to others.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)So people like the ones in the incidents linked here, http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6130616 are not deserving of this kind of contempt because at least they're not "those filthy people who don't vaccinate"? These incidents are "tragedies" rather than examples of people being total cretins.
classykaren
(769 posts)ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts) msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Chemisse
(30,809 posts)I think that would help a lot.
I'm also wondering if the publicity around the Disney World incident will be helpful in changing perceptions. Thankfully, news stories generally maintain a neutral tone, which is a lot more likely they will influence people than graphics calling their children crotch fruit.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)other people's minds can never be changed, since you seem to have the same problem
Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)Vaccines can be a very controversial issue edging on complete anarchy. You are a brave soul. Than you for informing use of the high numbers of the people will be carriers of the diseases. What is the possibility of a 60 year old catching the measles?
With so few being vaccinated, that reduces the chance that the unvaccinated will be exposed as quickly as in the old days where contact was almost 100%
Some could escape the disease for many years and then get them as an adult which would be much worse.
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)We insult neo-cons, Bushbots, fundie Christians and teabaggers all the time on this board and nobody gives it second thought.
Why? Usually because they deserve to be insulted due to their blindness to facts.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Voltaire and Twain were needlessly insulting to idiots both at home and abroad too. Rationalizing it otherwise is "beyond stupid..."
DemocraticWing
(1,290 posts)How many have to die?
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)mountain grammy
(26,619 posts)but, just as vile and over the top are parents who don't vaccinate their children. These people are foolish and foolhardy.
Many of us are old enough to remember polio, measles, chickenpox, mumps and others. I had measles and developed scarlet fever. We all knew someone who had polio. My mom had scars from smallpox. A parent who would expose their children to a disease that can be prevented is negligent, in my opinion.
Reter
(2,188 posts)All it does is make pro-vaxers look like jerkoffs. There's never a need to put down a differing opinion and try and make someone else look stupid.
laundry_queen
(8,646 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)
Hekate
(90,645 posts)The woman had had multiple miscarriages and finally was able to have this wee girl.
Whooping cough, for the love of God. Like something out of the Dark Ages of infant mortality. She was not an anti-vaxxer-- but someone else sure as hell was, and it was her too-young-to-be-vaccinated baby who died. 
But the OP is not going to help matters. We need to have a good old fashioned public health campaign on TV and radio, and pediatricians need to hand out really lurid illustrated pamphlets to parents.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)they usually keep that immune system for three months or so.
This babies poor mom must have had a weakened immune system. And she also may not have been immunized herself.
You can find unusual cases, but in most cases, where mom has been vaccinated, the baby is also fine until it's vaccination time table.
Of course there are exceptions, but they used to be few and far between.
Babies can get some limited immune bolstering benefits from their mothers. A bit more if they are breastfeeding. They do not have "immunity" to disease on anything remotely close to the same level of the mother.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)I'm not trying to imply that babies have immunity. But babies do have their mother's anti-bodies.
Hekate
(90,645 posts)Herd immunity would have protected this baby.
In the 1940s to 1950s my three sibs and I all had the DPT combo vaccination along with the smallpox vax. These diseases that had been killers in my parents' generation were unheard-of in my generation. I cannot BELIEVE that whooping cough has made a comeback, and is in fact at epidemic levels in my county. It just boggles the mind. What next? Teenagers dying of lockjaw because they didn't get a simple childhood DPT plus booster later?
As it happens, my baby sister got the whammy before her first birthday: measles, mumps, and chickenpox, all caught from me and my brother, who were in elementary school. We were miserable enough, but she was seriously sick and her immune system was compromised the rest of her childhood. So much for her having immunity from our mom.
Historic NY
(37,449 posts)things were so bad in my town in the late 1880's - 1920. Immigrants coming from the 4 corners of the globe brought things with them most never caught. The town created a board of health, comprised of several trusted Dr's, a couple judges and community members. They did quarantine's, locked up people in their houses, shut down watering holes, prevented kids from going to school. A last resource was rounding up the infected or contagious persons on a small peninsula of land, until thye passed a medical review. In later years 30's -50's they were active in keeping people in their homes and children from school, they actually went and tagged homes. The Town Doctor was given the authority to treat and confine people.
While todays times are different we face the potential of widespread outbreaks that might become uncontrollable.
Hekate
(90,645 posts)... had their own wing in the hospital; I know because my Brownie troop sang Christmas carols to them from outside.
Regarding typhoid fever: my aunt almost died of it, but before she was hospitalized a whole lot of family members were exposed. Public health officials tracked us all down, in my parents' case, across several states.
Public Health policies used to be an actual thing at one time, and they were enforceable by law. I used to think the "no spitting on the sidewalk" ordinances were about modern manners versus a disgusting habit, but they actually were one weapon in the fight against the scourge of TB.
As I have said elsewhere, we are overdue for new public health campaigns regarding vaccination. Doctors didn't used to have to tell parents that certain diseases were dangerous; parents experienced it themselves. What we need now is pamphlets in every pediatrician's office, rather like the ones in my dermatologist's office, complete with really ugly get-your-attention photographs. Ads on TV would help a lot as well.
Arrgh. I just remembered that part of the MMR vax is Rubella. "German measles" is a relatively mild infection unless you happen to be a fetus, in which case you can be born deaf or blind. A lifetime disability.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)The pertussis vaccine used until approximately 2000 was an inactivated version of the Bordetella pertussis bacterium. Incapable of causing infection, this whole-cell vaccine (wP) appeared as effective as a natural infection at boosting immunity to subsequent exposure. But in a few instances, the wP vaccine induced rare but severe side effects, such as convulsions and encephalopathy in children.
An acellular vaccine (aP) was introduced in 1991; this version uses specific bacterial antigens rather than the entire pathogen and imposes fewer and less severe side effects. By 2001, the wP vaccine was replaced by the aP version, and the former was completely removed from US markets. Tested only for its ability to generate robust antibody responses, recent epidemiological studies and animal research have suggested that the aP vaccine is less effective than the wP version when it comes to preventing disease transmission.
“The acellular vaccine was tested in the U.S. at a time when we had pretty much eliminated pertussis, so the force of infection—the pressure on the vaccine to perform—was really limited,” said Witt. However, he added, “It was not without a good purpose that the [aP] vaccine was developed.”
Last March, Witt and his colleagues published a study in Clinical Infectious Diseases comparing the vaccination histories of 900 patients affected in California’s 2010 pertussis outbreak. “It was the first year we were seeing teenagers who had never received the whole-cell vaccine,” he said.
The researchers compared populations of children who had received a first shot of wP and booster shots of aP to those who had received only aP or not been vaccinated at all. Witt said that the earliest cases from the 2010 outbreak, identified in Marin County, “were in a family that’s unvaccinated, in a town that has pretty high rates of personal belief exemptions.”
The researchers were surprised to find that, although the risk to unvaccinated children was higher, the majority of whooping cough cases occurred in children who had received either form of the vaccine. They found that children who had received a single primary dose of wP, followed by booster aP inoculations, had an eight-fold lower risk of infection than children in the same age group who had received only the acellular vaccine. “We were very surprised that vaccinated children were at as much risk as they were,” said Witt. “[There were concerns] that we had spurious data, because everyone trusted the vaccine and the antibody response.”
But this year, in a January PNAS study, researchers from the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA) compared the effectiveness of the aP and wP vaccines in baboons. FDA’s Tod Merkel and his colleagues found that the aP vaccine was effective at preventing severe disease symptoms, but baboons inoculated with this version could still be colonized by the pathogen and transmit disease to unvaccinated animals.
http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/41029/title/Persistent-Pertussis/
KMOD
(7,906 posts)ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)is less effective than the old one and indeed seems to allow the vaccinated to be colonized by and transmit Bordetella (pertussis bacteria).
KMOD
(7,906 posts)been vaccinated, after 2000.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)vaccinated aren't still capable of infecting others.
I understand you wish the best for your nieces and nephews, but it's really immaterial to this discussion that they were vaccinated. I linked to an article from "Science". It's not some "anti-vaxxer" publication.
Things aren't as clear-cut as people like to believe.
KMOD
(7,906 posts)very safe.
The problem is that we have immigrants who are afraid to seek medical care, due to immigration status.
We need more health clinics who offer vaccinations without fear of deportation.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)at the bottom of this page is a cdc chart based on 6000+ cases, showing the percent vaccinated who got pertussis of cases from 6 months to 6 years.
http://www.cdc.gov/pertussis/downloads/pertuss-surv-report-2013.pdf
Of those kids, 49% had all 3+ doses. In 33% of cases, vaccination status was unknown. Only 11% had 0 doses, meaning more kids got sick that had been at least partially vaccinated (1 to 3+ doses = 56% of cases) than had zero doses or an unknown number of doses (44% of cases).
Things aren't as clear cut as we believe. It's not about immigrants v. americans, or about anti-vaxxers v. vaxxers.
But if there is a fear to get health care, and vaccinations, and that is common among immigrants, because they fear deportation, it is a factor.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)half had the full complement of vaccination doses, and about 7% more had partial doses.
I.e. the vaccinated got sick more often than those with "unknown" vaccination status (your hypothetical immigrants) or those known to have zero doses of vaccine.
Did you know, not all immigrants are illegal? And did you know, even those who are can sometimes get health care through various means, including vaccination?
KMOD
(7,906 posts)I mentioned that some immigrants are reluctant to get vaccinated, and now you have turned it into an immigration argument.
Whatever. I just want everyone to have medical care. I want everyone to have their vaccinations. I can't help the people who refuse to. I do want to help the people who want to, but can't. OK?
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)had the full series of vaccinations, and 56% had one of more of the series. They still got whooping cough.
So it's not so simple as everyone getting their vaccinations. Or of immigrants, or evil anti-vaxxers infecting everyone else.
zappaman
(20,606 posts)
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)but I love you. 
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)KMOD
(7,906 posts)to say the least.
Again, do you have children?
Why won't you answer that?
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 24, 2015, 12:53 PM - Edit history (1)
yourself. Please describe what's 'disingenuous' about the data or the CDCs presentation of it.
dis·in·gen·u·ous adjective \ˌdis-in-ˈjen-yə-wəs, -yü-əs-\
: not truly honest or sincere : giving the false appearance of being honest or sincere
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/disingenuous
I'm not obliged to answer questions from people on the internet about my personal life. That's why I won't answer that, and it's rude to keep asking.
stevenleser
(32,886 posts)zappaman
(20,606 posts)And averaging over 100 posts daily!
Response to ND-Dem (Reply #51)
rsk This message was self-deleted by its author.
rsk
(5 posts)I'm a 50ish adult in CA and got whooping cough in 2011. It took forever to get diagnosed because
I'd had the TDaP in 2009, and I have asthma, which a lot of the ER/Urgent care folks kept thinking was
at the base of my problem. When I asked my doctor why I'd caught it when I'd been immunized, she said
the TDaP is only 80% effective; and even with it I was seriously sick for 3 weeks.
~rsk
Hari Seldon
(154 posts)that I guess you don't have much of an argument
Did you go to medical school, or did you get your Pro Vaccination Arguments from the google too?
Jim Beard
(2,535 posts)Do they teach that in school nowdays. I know they dropped cursive writing. Maybe we need a professional to interpet this essay.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)outbreak was traced to what they are calling now UNDERvaccinated adults. The majority with measles have been adults, not children. Adults not getting boosters? It not working? One person was a 70 year old man. Doesn't the CDC say that if you born before 1957, you either had these diseases yourself or were exposed to them. Are they now saying maybe not? Got a whole lot of Seniors walking around who never got these vax.
Children? Well, you could vaccinate every single child in the country but unless ADULTS are getting vaccinated themselves., then there goes Herd Immunity.
From what I have been reading, the "experts" are saying that the MMR booster may need to be given every 10 years. That means ADULTS. Good luck.
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)...at those roughly yearly visits where he complains about me not going to a gym.
I'd read the same thing, and I plan to bring boosters up at my next visit. Thanks for posting that.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I did not know that it was 10 years now. I will go to get a booster very soon. Great information.
Crunchy Frog
(26,579 posts)Considering the number of children who die or are maimed every year due to their proclivities, including the latest toddler to shoot himself dead with his dad's unsecured gun, kept in the glove box. http://www.wptv.com/news/state/2-year-old-pinellas-county-florida-boy-fatally-shoots-himself-with-dads-gun-sheriff-says
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/investigations/im-sorry-mom-recounts-moment-5-year-old-shot-killed-n289541
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/boy-2-accidentally-shoots-kills-mom-idaho-walmart-n277071
Of all the offensively idiotic people we should be insulting, I think that pretty much takes the cake.
bbgrunt
(5,281 posts)70+ recs for such a vitriolic screed---seems there's a lot of simmering hate and anger lurking in people for easy targets. Not so much for guns or even legislation that requires paid sick leave so sickness/disease doesn't spread in the workplace and by foodhandlers.
otis50
(4 posts)"Maybe draw you a picture in crayon?" wtf?
dembotoz
(16,799 posts)madville
(7,408 posts)Operate at about the level of a three year old (no offense to three year olds). At the very least you're gonna need pictures or some kind of visual aid to communicate with them.
deafskeptic
(463 posts)I also don't like the tone of this message.
Crotch fruit? Really? Those "crotch fruits" are people too. They're not responsible for their parents' poor judgement.
For the record, I was born with congenital Rubella syndrome in 1966. My only symptom of this syndrome is profound deafness. I was born 3 years too early for the Rubella vaccine.
Congenital Rubella Syndrome can cause a host of problems for those born with it:
Sensorineural (aka nerve deafness) deafness (58%) <-- I count myself fortunate. Without deafness, I would not have met a tightly knit and wonderful community.
eye problems: retinopathy, cataract, and microphthalmia (43% of patients)
"Salt-and-pepper" retinopathy is the most common ocular manifestation of congenital rubella.
Other manifest
Congenital heart disease—especially pulmonary artery stenosis and patent ductus arteriosus (50% of patients).
The above is known as as the Congenital Rubella triad if the baby is born with all of the above.
Pre-natal Rubella can also cause developmental delays, intellectual disability, autism, Schizophrenia, etic. Children with CRS should be watched for these problems.
However, autism and ID can be caused by other problems not related to CRS so causes should be ruled out.
I will use myself as an example of ruling out causes instead of making assumptions despite no evidence for those assumptions. Proper treatment shouldn't be delayed as a result.
People thought I was brain damaged even though I was clearly not ID and no one has ever been able to find evidence of brain damage.
For the record, my father was an M.D. so my family would've known where to turn to test for brain damage. People also thought I could be emotionally disturbed (not without reason).
My problems turned out to be a classic case of ADHD. I do not think my ADHD is connected at all to CRS. Based on what I've seen in my family, I have reason to think my ADHD is heredity. I didn't find this out till I was 28 though.
appalachiablue
(41,127 posts)great deal. I didn't realize congenital rubella could impact intellectual and psychological conditions but saw more just reading online. Many of these comments remind me of diseases once widespread and our good fortune to have vaccines if the time was right. My mother mentioned to us polio and the Spanish Flu epidemic of 1918 just before she and her brother were born. She was a natural teacher and interested in many things which she passed on to us. Her father was an MD and aware of issues from his medical training; I believe he was registered to assist with the flu epidemic but wasn't called up. He was a wonderful man and grandfather that everyone adored.
In the 80s I worked at two non profit organizations for the visually impaired which I hadn't trained for but I enjoyed as an information coordinator for assistive services and devices like talking books from LC, large print, magnifiers, mobility training, medical info. and support groups. Most people were seniors with age related conditions and some younger ones referred by ophthalmologists or NIH with viruses or infection, others had diabetic retinopathy, RP. And RLF (Retrolental Fibroplasia) was the case with two intelligent, fun staffers born around 1960. Thanks again, your strength is inspiring.
Response to Algernon Moncrieff (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)At a certain point we're going to have to have a conversation about not making vaccines voluntary anymore.
I'm not at this point yet. But I'm getting closer to it.
upaloopa
(11,417 posts)They really suck.
And it has nothing to do with my opinion of vaccination.
procon
(15,805 posts)Growing up in the era before vaccines were even available, I remember suffering through every communicable childhood disease. We had no choice, it was the price for growing up and not everyone survived. No child should be forced to suffer like that, to endure the pain, to fear the terror of halucinations. It would be the cruelest of wicked torture to force a child to undergo that needless agony. And damn those parents who put their own ignorance ahead of the safety and wellbeing of any child.
Stargazer09
(2,132 posts)...I remember having chickenpox. It was awful. Painful, itchy, nothing helped. My baby brother was seriously sick.
Twenty years later, my kids caught it. The two-year-old was simply miserable, while my infant developed pneumonia and was very ill for weeks.
I wasn't around before the MMR and polio vaccines, so I didn't experience those diseases firsthand. I can only imagine how awful they were, if chickenpox was considered mild in comparison.
Chemisse
(30,809 posts)Some barely noticed it; some were miserable for days. It was worse for babies.
Either way, it's not fun. It's exactly like being covered with mosquito bites (like maybe 1 or 2 per inch on some parts of the body).
Parents made an effort to expose their children to it, once they were older (over 5ish, I would say), since getting it as a teenager or adult was more dangerous.
Blue_In_AK
(46,436 posts)and it was awful and terrifying. My aunt had it and nearly died. I had friends in iron lungs. Just knowing the disease was out there and we had no protection created a climate of fear.
Moonwalk
(2,322 posts)...if you think fail to understand that this is a response to an equally "insulting" argument. The implication here is that an anti person has just said: "I don't understand why you want me to vaccinate my child. Yours is vaccinated. What do you care?"
And the feeling is that the anti person has just poo-pooed and disregarded all rational and polite counter argument, and, more, has put on a "holier-and-more-knowing-than-thou" attitude. (Note the comments about Ph.d from Google, etc. This is someone asserting they know the truth by cherry-picking misinformation off the internet rather than listing to live and real doctors).
THAT is what this is a response to. And it's not just that the anti-person might deserve equal discourtesy. It's that others may be WATCHING and/or listening to this argument. And they may say, "Well, gosh, that was a good point. anti made there."
You may not be able to change the anti person with this admittedly harsh rant, but you will change the mind of those on the fence if you make it seem like the anti is not only wrong, wrong, wrong, but badly misinformed and very likely to end up infecting not only their own children, but other people's children, the ones too young for the vaccine. This is what "vaccinate" proponents are fighting for right now and the stakes are way too high to lose. The pro-vaccine side must stem the anti tide and stop the anti from gaining more adherents. It's very like fighting a cult or a club everyone thinks is hip to join, or a diet everyone wants to go on as all the cool and thin people are on it. How do you fight that? By making the cool and thin people not look so cool and thin. By taking down their arrogance and surety several pegs. And yes, I think this could change the minds of those on the fence. Not all, but this is getting to be a war against possible epidemics that could do terrible, terrible damage (do we really want kids in iron lungs from polio again?).
Right or wrong, people *DO* side with those who don't merely have good points in an argument, but a take-no-prisoners attitude. Just as Obama won the State of the Union with his one "I won 'em both" remark rather than any other points he might have made. This is a war against the discourteous and righteous. The religiously certain. Sometimes, as with the GOP on climate change or certain religious bodies on anti-gay marriage, those other, less insulting methods won't work in gaining the fence sitters to your side. Because they're not playing fair. And neither can you.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The only way to combat their idiocy is to make such idiocy appropriately stigmatized by the general public.
Stellar
(5,644 posts)used to ask me to see my child's vaccination record so that she could copy from it. I thought it was strange. But after the second time, I never showed it to her again. Why would you not want to have your child vaccinated? That's been many years ago.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)
What's the web source of the version in the OP? It brings to mind the crude branding efforts (gabage scented mailers sent to voters) ascribed to the PR firm representing Patakai when he ran against Cuomo for governor of NY: evoke disgust, harden emotion, bypass intellect.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/11/nyregion/11ads.html
https://delivermagazine.com/2011/10/sensory-mail-grabs-hold-of-the-target/
Hey, let's all write some bills restricting informed consent! And add more mandates, too, for the public good: http://www.ncsl.org/research/health/hpv-vaccine-state-legislation-and-statutes.aspx
DISCLAIMER: I haven't read all of these (yet).
PART 1: http://truth-out.org/news/item/9033-subverting-the-statehouse-uncovering-the-other-alecs
PART 2: http://truth-out.org/news/item/9889-exposed-the-other-alecs-corporate-playbook
PART 3: http://truth-out.org/news/item/10316-how-big-business-has-trumped-the-peoples-will-in-state-legislatures-on-civil-liberties-higher-education-and-energy-policy
PART 4: http://truth-out.org/news/item/10435-the-other-alecs-k-12-education-agenda-exposed
http://truth-out.org/news/item/10506-the-other-alecs-a-look-at-the-lesser-known-stealth-lobbies-that-write-bills-for-your-state
http://truth-out.org/news/item/27892-alec-fumes-transparency-threatens-corporate-free-speech
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)That is, if you classify as problematic everyone who isn't in 100% compliance with the 2015 US CDC recommended schedule.
For example, I personally received 2 vaccinations (Hep A and Typhoid) a couple of weeks ago in preparation for a trip, but declined the flu vaccine. What am I?
For example, if a person heeds the caveats expressed by CDC whistleblower, Dr. William W Thompson, in the context of absolutely avoiding thimerosal during pregnancy and exercising caution about MMR timing for their infant, what are they?
OVERVIEW: http://healthchoice.org/index.php/news/122-outline-of-significant-developments-in-the-recent-revelations-on-vaccine-safety-research-corruption
For example, if a parent sought to follow the entire MUMPER STUDY protocol, what are they?
ANS: EXERCISING INFORMED CONSENT.
GoneFishin
(5,217 posts)... The statement also confirmed that a higher association was found between MMR and autism in children given the vaccine before the age of 36 months. "
Thanks for the link.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Letter from CDC Whistleblower to CDC official Julie Gerberding
The following is a letter from Dr. William Thompson, epidemiologist with the CDC, to Dr. Julie Gerberding, former CDC Director and current head of Merck’s vaccine division. Dr. Gerberding led the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) as director from 2002 to 2009. The letter was written in 2004, one week before the Institute of Medicine (IOM) meeting addressing the link between vaccines and autism.
This letter confirms that lead officials at CDC had knowledge of safety issues regarding vaccines at least ten years ago, but did nothing to address these safety concerns. After Dr. Thompson wrote the letter, he was reprimanded and removed from the 2004 IOM speaker schedule. Subsequently, in March, he was put on administrative leave.
Thompson highlights his concerns, stating, “I will have to present several problematic results relating to statistical associations between the receipt of the MMR vaccine and autism”. He openly criticizes Dr. Gerberding’s silence on the subject of vaccine/autism causation, and requests a written response to Representative Dave Weldon’s questions surrounding the “integrity” of the scientists in the National Immunization Program.
LETTER AT LINK
AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)Please see this study from the University of Texas:
http://thechemicaledge.com/2011/02/05/autism-power-plants-mercury/
Study links autism risk to distance from power plants, other mercury-releasing sources
...
A newly published study of Texas school district data and industrial mercury-release data, conducted by researchers at The University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio, indeed shows a statistically significant link between pounds of industrial release of mercury and increased autism rates. It also shows—for the first time in scientific literature—a statistically significant association between autism risk and distance from the mercury source.
If I'm not mistaken, the FDA has defined "safe" levels of thimerosal (a mercury containing compound) to be used in vaccines, but is it possible that it simply adds to the abundance of mercury exposure children already receive from the environment and the air that they breathe?
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014430520#post17
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014319987#post88
http://www.fourteenstudies.org/history.html
http://www.fourteenstudies.org/studies.html
http://www.pressherald.com/2014/09/02/maine-voices-breakdown-in-accountability-at-heart-of-decline-in-vaccinations/
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017183991
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10592519
...because CDC whistleblower Dr. William W. Thompson (site search)
...because #HearThisWell youtube and twitter (site search)
AntiFascist
(12,792 posts)If there are clear, demonstrated links between sources of mercury from power plants and the rates of autism based on geography, shouldn't the people who are so concerned about protecting their children be looking at the coal industry? Not just in the US but also in places like China where so much pollution ends up blowing into the West Coast of North America.
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)Last edited Sat Feb 7, 2015, 12:46 PM - Edit history (1)
THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2015
Inside the Vaccine War: Measles Outbreak Rekindles Debate on Autism, Parental Choice & Public Health
DemocracyNow Video and Transcript
GUESTS:
Dorit Rubinstein Reiss, professor of law at University of California, Hastings College of the Law, who specializes in legal issues related to vaccines, including exemption laws. She co-authored a report last year titled, "Funding the Costs of Disease Outbreaks Caused by Non-Vaccination."
Mary Holland, research scholar at NYU School of Law and adviser to Health Choice. She’s also a contributor to the blog, "Age of Autism." Holland is the co-editor of the book, Vaccine Epidemic: How Corporate Greed, Biased Science, and Coercive Government Threaten Our Human Rights, Our Health, and Our Children. And she is the mother of a child with regressive autism who, she believes, was injured by the MMR vaccination.
Dr. Paul Offit, professor in the Division of Infectious Diseases and the director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. He is also professor of vaccinology and a professor of pediatrics at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. He is the co-inventor of the rotavirus vaccine, RotaTeq, recommended for universal use in infants by the CDC. He is author of numerous books, including Autism’s False Prophets: Bad Science, Risky Medicine, and the Search for a Cure and Deadly Choices: How the Anti-Vaccine Movement Threatens Us All.
MORE:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6167108
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6181075
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6179586
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2590514
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=4747757
97 Research Papers Supporting the Vaccine/Autism Link
by Ginger Taylor
proverbialwisdom
(4,959 posts)http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/preventing-autism-not-so-fast-dr-mumper/
http://www.ageofautism.com/2013/08/weekly-wrap-another-medical-practice-with-a-sane-vaccine-schedule-and-no-autism-.html
http://www.pressherald.com/2014/09/02/maine-voices-breakdown-in-accountability-at-heart-of-decline-in-vaccinations/
http://www.ageofautism.com/2011/05/dr-brian-strom-an-honest-moron.html
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1016110299
Iggo
(47,549 posts)
Algernon Moncrieff
(5,790 posts)I've had a lot of life happening this weekend. Not bad stuff -- busy stuff. So I have not had time to give the responses the attention that they deserve.
I thank all of those who responded -- positively or negatively: For the record, I didn't write this. It's a Tumblr graphic, I believe. In saying that, I in no way abjure responsibility for the content. Growing up, I remember the two world views on Richard Pryor: there were those who saw a gifted comic who made sharp, insightful commentary about race, drugs, and sex; and there were those who saw a comic who cursed entirely too much for their taste. If the tone brought attention to the issue, that's all to the good from my perspective.
America is a nation in which we can all live in our own set of facts, but the good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it: No argument - civil or uncivil - tends to change the minds of those who are certain of their facts. How do we become certain of our facts if we didn't do the science ourselves? We learn to judge which sources are trustworthy. If I go out on Google right now, I can produce articles stating that that climate change is a liberal hoax; vaccination is a cash cow for big pharma; and that evolution is a myth spread by Satanists. To be sure, there have been some vaccination reformulations, but I've yet to see a peer-reviewed scientific study in a journal such as JAMA, NEJOM, or Lancet stating that we should cease vaccinating our kids.
From the CDC:
The United States experienced a record number of measles cases during 2014, with 644 cases from 27 states reported to CDC's National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases (NCIRD). This is the greatest number of cases since measles elimination was documented in the U.S. in 2000.
http://www.cdc.gov/measles/cases-outbreaks.html
I'd like to particularly thank poster Deafskeptic for sharing personal experience in post @90
And to Crunchy Frog: As someone who has lost two friends to gun violence, but who also has many friends and family members who hunt, I hear what you are saying (or, more accurately, I read what you are writing). At DU, I believe such a post would have to be made in the gungeon, as I believe they aren't allowed in GD. Having said that, I went out and perused Google graphics using a few search terms. What I found were that the overwhelming majority of graphics out there right now are Pro-gun. That said, if I see such a graphic, I will make a mental note to keep you in mind.
Thanks, all!
drm604
(16,230 posts)It probably would be better without the name calling. Believe me, I often want to refer to these people by less than polite terms, but you're not going to win people over by insulting them.
Rex
(65,616 posts)Just don't see that used enough around here!
madokie
(51,076 posts)spot on too
