my Uncle was part of one of the liberation units of Dachau.

[marym625]

Though the anniversary today is about Auschwitz, the remembrance, I believe, is about all the people that were put in these horrible death camps. It is a day that we should celebrate the beginning of the end of the German concentration camps. We should celebrate the heroes that suffered the atrocities. Both those that survived and those that didn't. We should celebrate those that fought to stop these horrors, regardless of what that meant for themselves.

It is a day we should mourn the loss of millions of innocent people. The loss of spirit as well as life. We should mourn the loss of the humanity by what were previously good people, who then kept silent, allowing this to happen.

It is a day that we should remember as we look at what is happening today.

My uncle was part of one of the liberation units for one of the camps. It wasn't Auschwitz, it was Dachau, another of the murder/torture camps. He never spoke in detail about it to his nieces and nephews. I know it changed him drastically. 

He was only 6 months away from graduating from college when he joined the Army in 1944. Two of his older brothers were "in for the duration." Both were heroes, one receiving the Bronze Star. He needed to be a part of it. 

My grandparents were so relieved on VE day that the 3 blue stars in their window were never going to turn gold. They were relieved that their youngest living son wasn't going to witness the horrors his brothers did. Or so they thought. They didn't know yet what my uncle had seen. 

He came home completely changed. He became a raging alcoholic, among other changes, mostly emotional stability. It was only through his wife and brothers we heard any of what he saw. Things that were so horrible even fellow AA member were changed. It even changed family members that only heard some of the stories. The fact he was so changed, just witnessing the aftermath of the atrocities, lends just a small nugget understanding about what the victims endured. He had no sympathy for the German people, knowing that they allowed this to happen to their fellow countrymen and others around Europe. He said that there was absolutely no way they didn't know. He had been a devout Catholic but that also changed. He couldn't be part of a church that helped these annihilators escape. He stopped believing in god. 

My heart goes out to all that suffered. I can't wrap my head around what was done to these people. How so many could treat another human being like they did is beyond me. The people that went through these camps are all heroes. Each and every one of them. The survivors that are still speaking out need to be heard, loud and clear. 

"If we forget the past, we're doomed to repeat it." I don't know who that quote belongs to but it is something that should be repeated constantly. I look at what we allow to happen with minorities, black men especially, the poor the mentally ill and the Muslim community in this country and it scares and angers me. How far from what Germany did to the Jews, LGBT, Gypsies, etc, are we? At what point will we demand it stop? Even propaganda is unacceptable, yet we have people like Bill OReilly screaming about Muslims and their supposed agenda to end America while young black men and boys are gunned down by law enforcement without any consequence.

Today we should look at where we are headed by remembering the past.

[Lurks Often]

1. My grandfather was part of the division that liberated the Flossenbürg concentration camp

He died before I was born and I don't know if he took actual part in the liberation. He didn't talk much about what he seen or done in WWII according to my father. I do know that I have seen some of the pictures of some of the camps in history books and it isn't something I'll ever forget.

Rick Atkinson recounted a story in his book "Guns at Last Light" where a unit of American soldiers who had liberated a concentration camp and seen what the Germans had done, promptly turned the German prisoners over to the people in the camp and walked away.

[marym625]

2. I will have to read that

I wonder what the German people did to them, the officers he turned over. I know what I hope.

Thank you for that story. I appreciate it

[Lurks Often]

3. I'm fairly certain that the German prisoners met a short, very violent ending

[marym625]

6. That is my understanding as well.

[Nay]

12. This was certainly the Russian policy. I was watching a documentary last

night about the films that were taken of the liberation of the camps, and the Russian soldiers made the German camp guards (male and female) move dead bodies into trenches, and when they were done, they shot the guards and threw them in on top and bulldozed the whole thing. They also were pretty meticulous about filming all they did so the world would know what happened.

[Lurks Often]

13. Probably a violation of the Geneva Conventions on the part of both US and Russian troops

I'm not objecting mind you, under the circumstances I'm not sure I wouldn't have done the same thing as the US soldiers.

[Nay]

15. Certainly a violation. But, as an interviewed Russian officer said, the conditions

of the Jewish prisoners/discovery of tanned human skin/piles of shoes and obvious torture and experimentation left the Russian troops so horrified that they simply shot them all. The Russian who related the story was crying as he related it. You could see that he and his fellow soldiers could no longer conceive of those guards living for one more minute.

[marym625]

16. Anyone who was able to keep their humanity

When facing these death camps, had to be an extremely strong person in every aspect.

[sabrina 1]

29. Actually the Geneva Conventions didn't exist until after the world saw these horrors. That is what

prompted the need to have international laws to prevent inhumane cruelty. So they probably violated no laws, other than moral law, and though I completely understand the reaction, it does show that such horror can result in a loss of humanity across the board.

The Geneva Conventions addressed the treatment of POWS, most likely due to the natural instincts people are likely to succumb to during war. Such as the ones described above.

War is evil. And it is a sign of failure and weakness. That we are still engaging in such behavior shows what a long way humanity has to go.

Or maybe that is just who we are as a species.

[EX500rider]

35. Actually the 1st Geneva Convention was ratified in 1864.

The 2nd in 1906, the 3rd in 1929 and 4th in 1949.

The 1st one was brought about due to the horrible conditions of wounded soldiers after the Battle of Solferino-1859, in the Second Italian War of Independence. It was the last major battle in world history where all the armies were under the personal command of their monarchs.

[MrBig]

72. Thanks for posting this

I was also under the belief the Geneva Conventions came about after WWII. Thanks for the history lesson

[ReRe]

113. I don't think it was...

... a violation of the Geneva Conventions because this was the liberation of the prisoners, not the film of the persons who imprisoned them. They used the film footage as evidence in the Nuremberg trials, didn't they?

[Lurks Often]

118. I was referring to the execution and failure to protect German prisoners

by the Russians and the Americans respectively, not the act of filming them.

Once a soldier is taken prisoner, there are established rules for their handling and care. Executing them without a trial or walking away and allowing them to be killed by the prisoners of the concentration camp would be a violation of those rules.

Again under the circumstances, I have no particular issue with what happened.

[JDPriestly]

108. I believe the post said that he turned the German guards over to the prisoners. That is what

I understand. Is that what you understood?

[marym625]

109. Thanks for commenting on that

I did read it incorrectly. That makes much more sense.

Thanks again

[CountAllVotes]

4. About 35 years ago I traveled past Dachau

I'll never forget the words of a fellow traveler from England, "Not even a bird will land there ...".

FYI: There were Catholics and anyone else that the Nazis cared to have locked-up in those concentration camps as well.

As the child of a WWII Marine, my late father told me that "Everyone knew what was going on in Germany but no one dared talk about it". I'm sure he was right as it would have been impossible not to know.

You might look for a documentary by Alfred Hitchcock on youtube.com that was posted here on the DU not long ago (sorry I do not have a link to it). It gives an in-depth detailed map of how many of these camps there were in Germany during WWII and it is really quite shocking I must admit (there were hundreds!).

On edit: I found it on youtube.

Here is the link:

It runs 53 mins. and yes, it is shocking!

As for your late uncle, my extreme condolences. It sounds like he gave up on life after his experiences in WWII and Dachau.

May he RIP.

[marym625]

5. Thank you

What a sweet, beautiful reply.

I saw the post with the Hitchcock documentary but have not been able to watch it yet. Thanks for putting it here. When I am ready, I won't have to search.

I know there were Catholics in the camps and priests that tried to help. It was the Vatican/Pope and hierarchy that turned my uncle against the church.

Thank you for such kind words. My uncle actually did much better after he joined AA. He had a loving wife and even took in his mother in law and disabled sister in law. Unfortunately, in his 40s he suffered a debilitating stroke. 15 years unable to speak or move anything but his left arm. You knew just looking at him his mind, an IQ of 163, was fine inside which caused him to cry often. A fate worse than death in my mind. His wife stood by him the entire time, always hoping and helping. Great people.

Thank you again. Truly touched me

[BlancheSplanchnik]

7. oh, dear......

Very sad to hear that.

[marym625]

8. Thank you

I appreciate that.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

9. .

We all need that.

[marym625]

10. I know I did after writing this

Very much appreciated

<- what a great little emotion

"hi:

[CountAllVotes]

11. You are very welcome!

I'm thinking you need a hug ... so here you go ....

and a big hug from everyone else

If the documentary is too much for you to watch, you might want to bookmark this thread for a later time.

When I was in school, we were taught about the holocaust and shown a video. However, we could not watch said video unless BOTH parents signed a form agreeing to it. I think I was about 11 years old at that time and ... not good!

[marym625]

14. Thank you again!

Very much appreciated. And I did need hugs.

I can't remember what we saw and when in school. I had 3 uncles in WWII, my grandfather was in WWI another uncle in Korea and my dad in during Korea with his buddies all in the war. Just was stuff we talked about often. Though I think we did see a movie about the concentration camps in school. Hell getting old.

Good idea, at that age to make sure that the parents were aware of what you were seeing

Thanks again. Have a beautiful day!

[Raine1967]

19. I watched that the day before the HBO documentary was aired.

The video you posted I saw in 1985 in my social Studies class. What HBO did was masterful after watching the first film.

I was left in tears and sick to my stomach even more than than what the first film showed.

I recommend everyone watch Both.

[calimary]

30. And here's the KEY:

As the child of a WWII Marine, my late father told me that "Everyone knew what was going on in Germany but no one dared talk about it". I'm sure he was right as it would have been impossible not to know.

Cannot repeat this often enough. Cannot overstate the importance of this - the critical, urgent, VITAL importance of this. "...but no one dared talk about it."

That is the message WE need to take to heart. We NEED to talk about this. We NEED this out in the open as far as possible. We NEED truths like this - out in the open!

I've seen multiple threads, in a row, that carry this cautionary note: if it's not out in the open, if it's not spoken, shown, acted upon, WE TOO will get rolled. Whether it's Pox Noise-only viewers among your friends (who never hear anything other than THAT shit and therefore can't be expected to know any better - since nobody's telling them the other side), or the militant StopPatriarchy.org pro-choice people who are out there with glaring gory poster-size photos of butchered women dying or dead from a botched back-alley abortion,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026143433

or the ignorant who trust only their knuckle-dragger brother-in-law's insistence that dick cheney served in the military and must certainly know all about the real costs of war...

WHERE do we get to see, or are we shown, the true and sometimes gruesome consequences of doing it THEIR way? This may be the first time in a long time, or the first time EVER - at least for THIS particular cause.

Anyone remember the circus around the whole Terri Schiavo travesty? All the nuts out there on their knees fiddling with outsized rosary beads in the street, loudly chanting prayers and religious songs, dragging big-ass 8-foot-by-6-foot wooden crosses on their shoulders, laying down on the pavement in "holy robes" and other crap, lots of visuals to dominate the coverage (THINK:::: what are the cameras gonna wanna focus on? A handful of quiet supporters of Schiavo's husband and her right to die, over there on the side, or this traveling revival show of loud, colorful whack-jobs. In the TV newsrooms where I worked, the philosophy was - "if it bleeds, it leads." Or if there was an apartment building on fire, THAT was the lead. "WHAT DO WE SEE?" That was "the phrase that pays."

I learned three basic questions to answer for oneself when covering, brokering, or otherwise curating the news:

1) "What happened?" Told to me by a City Hall reporter when I was first interning and my assignment was to follow him around, try to copy what he did, and write up "practice" news reports about what he was covering - as though I myself was covering it.

2) "Who cares?" Told to me by the news director of the big rock station that just hired me to do hip rock 'n' roll news with an attitude toward our hip rock 'n' roll listeners. What would THEY care about? Would they really care to hear about this-or-that story?

3) "What do we see?" Told to me by the producer of the evening newscast at the local TV station, who always went with the blazing fire or the bloody accident or victims being taken away on stretchers. The VISUALS. He knew that gripped audiences and kept 'em tuned in. Visual cataclysms of one sort or other always led the newscast.

There was also a fourth item on that list, later on, to keep in one's filter -

4) "I can't believe what I just heard on the radio!" Or "I can't believe what they just said on the radio!" THAT ONE was for the "Morning Zoo" contingent and the mad-dog morning DJs and Howard Sterns and people who'd be pushing the envelope as outrageously as they could, every morning, so by the time you got to the office that's all people were buzzing about, in the coffee room or around the water cooler.

When we see a whole lotta nothing or boring visuals, the news cameras and reporters and microphones are gonna go find the nutcases and the loudmouths and the vivid pictures instead. PICTURES. For the vast majority of American viewers and news consumers who process information VISUALLY. Attention-getting. The fucking teabaggers understand this. That's why the crazies with the teabags hanging from their sun-bonnets and the fat retirement-age white dudes in their home-made "patriot" costumes with their cardboard three-cornered hats, and the stupid poorly-spelled protest signs between the lawn chairs - that's why THAT is what you see on the news. And what you KEEP seeing on the news.

I am not advocating so much crazy idiot images, but IMAGES. Something memorable that sticks in the mind. That triggers a reaction along the lines of "Oh. Uh. Hmmm... I never thought of THAT..."

The public will NOT think of THAT because they're never SHOWN THAT. So how CAN they think of THAT? They're trained only to see and think about what they're repeatedly shown. And then they react as you'd expect them to, and they are softened up and receptive to your message and to how you want them to think and intake information and process it and conclude what you want them to conclude and react the way you want them to react and respond the way you want them to respond. Like Pavlov's dogs. WE on our side provide NO answer back on that. NO counter-action, counter-provocation, counter-images, counter-information, counter-education. When all the public hears and sees and hears talked about is one way, that's all they're going to know.

If I may... (Humbly submitted. I know it's a post of mine. But please consider the conversation between "She," "Me," and "Mom #3". "She" being a mom, very nice and well-intentioned, who knew nothing of the world around her except what her rich developer-husband and her Pox Noise-loyalist brother-in-law were telling her about dick cheney's alleged "war record" to provide one of many justifications and excuses for the "nobility" of that damn Iraq War. She had NO OTHER INFORMATION on which to make any conclusions of her own, and she was never exposed to anybody with any alternative points of view to add to the conversation around her.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6143454

[marym625]

49. Thank you for that

I saw your post on that thread.

The Terry Schiavo case was a travesty. I can't believe that the government got so involved and dragged those people through the mud. That's the guy that wants to be our next president.

By the way, trending on twitter all day, #NeverForget

[JDPriestly]

110. One of my friends grew up in Austria. He was five when the NAZIs were defeated.

He said that one day his family was listening to Hitler with great respect and as soon as the news came that the NAZIs were out of power, everyone called Hitler names and said what they really thought of him. That was a powerful experience for a child of five, a lesson in understanding that what a person says is not always what that person really thinks, a lesson that you must look into the real heart and mind and feelings of people and not just hear the words they say or repeat.

[CountAllVotes]

21. Quite true

Last edited Tue Jan 27, 2015, 04:15 PM - Edit history (1)

If you were living in Germany at that time, what could you do?

There were few options so they had to turn a blind eye to it or face death themselves I believe -- not that they all necessarily agreed.

I know that after the camps were liberated, some of the German people were forced to go and LOOK at the camps and the many atrocities that went with them.

Did anyone learn anything?

I often wonder this.

[marym625]

23. No, of course we don't

Part of the point of my post.

I agree with you. It's horrendous and we need to do more to be heard.

Thank you

[Archae]

18. I had an uncle who was a top turrent gunner in a B-17 over Germany.

He never told us old "war stories," he did acknowledge he was there, but that's it.

My Uncle never wanted to remember seeing buddies in B-17's go down over Germany, and never get out in time.

When "Band Of Brothers" had the show about when they stumbled on to a death camp, you could see the trauma in their eyes.
That must have been what it was like for your Uncle.

[marym625]

25. Yes.

All three uncles. The other two were in the Pacific. One only spoke of his "shenanigans" while in the Philippines. But he saw some horrible stuff.

The other one won a Bronze Star for rescuing 100s of men on their ship that was hit by a kamikaze pilot. He only spoke of it when he was in his 80s and was speaking to high school students about the war.

Two other times he mentioned it to me. On 9/11 he said that the oil and gas from the plane burning was what happened to his ship. The other was when his son died oof AIDS. He whispered, this is harder than watching those men burn in the water.

Thank you for sharing about your uncle. I think they all felt like that. Unfortunately, they didn't treat for PTSD then.

[3catwoman3]

20. Much as I cannot understand human being doing this to ...

...each other, I have an even harder time understanding those who deny the Holocaust.

[marym625]

26. agreed. n/t

[appalachiablue]

40. Monsters, pure h-evil, human evil. And there are many of them, not just David Duke Grand Wizard

and amateur hate types but semi serious writers and authors, for decades. I never knew this really, a bare mention or two that I thought were mere crackpots. Several years ago I remembered what a research staffer at the National Archives once said to me quickly when I worked there; that they wanted to put out deniers when they came in to do research for their publications but couldn't. I found out what she meant too many years later.

[oneshooter]

50. The Japanese Government TO THIS DAY deny the atrosities commited against allied POW's. n/t

[20score]

22. Very well done!

BTW, it was George Santayana.
"Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

[marym625]

27. Thank you!

And thank you! Should have looked it up.

[HubertHeaver]

24. My father was one of the first Americans into Dachau.

He carried photographs of the camp in his wallet until the spring of '54 or '55 when he lost that wallet. It came out of his pocket while he was plowing. He walked that field for days looking for the wallet but never found it.

[marym625]

28. Awe.

That's so sad.

I wonder if they knew each other. I have no way of finding out what unit my uncle was with now.

Thank you for sharing this.

[MisterP]

31. my mom worked for years with one of the Dachau priests

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priest_Barracks_of_Dachau_Concentration_Camp

[marym625]

32. That must have been very interesting

Did he share stories?

Thanks for the link. I don't think I have read that before.

[appalachiablue]

33. Thank you for sharing your uncle's experiences. I salute his service & bravery like all Veterans.

The difficulties he had following the war are more common than we realize. It's seems that little to nothing was done to help soldiers readjust or connect with others after the war years in any organized way unfortunately. I read the same by a wonderful woman in her 80s, one of three women who were children Holocaust survivors recently interviewed by the Telegraph UK News. She remarked about how there was no one around afterwards who could or would understand her experience; also that she couldn't believe anti-Semitism was reviving now.

My father was a 24 year old 1st lieutenant in the 7th Army, Rhineland Campaign, the Liberation of Dachau and the Army of Occupation. He received the Bronze Star which I now have, for bravery when his convoy was spotted by German 88s, long-range powerful guns while crossing a border into Germany and his commanding officer was wounded or lost control and Dad took over.

Like so many other WWII veterans our father never said much about the war, and we didn't ask more unfortunately. When I returned from Europe when young with Bavarian souvenirs from Munich for him he was so pleased and gave me several of his 838th AAA (anti aircraft artillery) lapel pins, some German and French coins, a few German Nazi SS uniform patches and his SAE college fraternity pin.

These mementoes I cherish and hold dear, like the memories I have of him. I only wish I had thanked him for all he did and made sure he knew how much we respected and loved him, a handsome, intelligent, strong and colorful man who was one of the Greatest Generation like our beautiful, cultured and gentle mother who worked in NYC and San Francisco while waiting for him to return safely from war.

Years later I learned more about Dad's service from my older brother who gave me one his seven steps, 7th Army patches. I vaguely knew Dad was in Bavaria which I visited during college but not that he had been at Dachau until many years later when my brother told me. When we were young Mother recounted their time when he was in OCS and trained in NC and Texas on Swedish Bofur guns, and his embarkation from NY to Bournemouth, England. She also gently mentioned that he was treated for battle fatigue. I didn't understand then but know much more about Dad as a person now.

We must remember what the brave persons endured, survived, died for and defended during the Second World War and how bigotry, oppression and authoritarianism are evils that threaten our democratic way of life if left unchallenged and unopposed.

[marym625]

34. Thank you. Very well said.

I so appreciate your sharing this. What awesome people your parents were.

That is so wonderful that you have this knowledge to share with us and the next generation of your family. This is stuff we have to pass on.

Truly a beautiful post. Thank you.

To your dad

[appalachiablue]

138. I'm really sensing their experiences & legacy like never before as is obvious. Thank you for your

kind reply. I miss them and appreciate them so much for all they did.

[underpants]

36. K&R

[marym625]

39. Thank you

[underpants]

43. Just want to keep this on the main page

[marym625]

45. Thank you.

I do want all these personal, touching stories seen too.

Thank you

[GliderGuider]

37. My Hungarian mother-in-law saw it from the other side of the wire.

She went through three camps - Dachau, Bergen-Belsen and finally Auschwitz - in the last year of the war. She's 91 today, and doesn't say much about how she survived. She is a wonderful, gentle, kind, loving person.

Never forget.

[marym625]

41. She's a survivor

How frightening that had to be, especially being moved with even greater uncertainty.

Thank you for sharing this.

Never Forget

[PasadenaTrudy]

38. So was my dad, may he rest in peace n/t

[marym625]

42. To your Dad

I'm sorry for your loss

[Mira]

44. I debated if I should add my own memories of Dachau

and since maybe only the poster of this thread will read it at this point I will do so. It's been gnawing on me today.

As a young girl, daughter of a German minister, living near Dachau, I was quite often forced by my overworked father to take visitors to Dachau and be a tour guide of sorts. The visitors were as a rule Americans, people of the church, and that is where I started to improve my school English. I was about 13 - Dachau had been liberated the same amount of years; I was born at the very end of the war.
I often threw up in the privacy of a bush on the way to or fro.
I never told my Father how hard it was for me, he was grateful for the help and I aimed to please him.

When I was 19 I came to the realization that Germany (at that time anyway) did not properly acknowledge the horrors of what had been done, and I could not stand living there any more. I am grateful to say: My family excluded. My father was on the run from the SS for a lot of the time during the war because he was part of the Underground against Hitler, and one of his brothers died in a concentration camp because of opposition to the Nazi regime.
My trips to Dachau contributed greatly to my saving up enough money for a passage on a coal freighter to Norfolk, and to immigrate to the United States.

The rest is history, or another part of it. I love it here. I am fully assimilated and consider myself a Democratic American. Became a citizen in order to vote for McGovern.
Oh well.

The best historical tribute and the best education is in the reference movies:
SHOAH.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090015/

It takes a lot to watch them. I can only do about a half hour at the time. But I owe it to myself to be as informed as possible, because the bottom line of all of it is: Never again!
I don't as a rule pray. But for that I pray loudly.

[marym625]

46. From deep in my heart, I thank you

What a beautiful, heart wrenching and heartwarming post. I am honored that you shared this with us.

What a thing to have to do at such a tender age. What an amazing father and family you have

I hope you will consider making this a main post. It should be seen by everyone here. Thank you for the link too.

I don't know what to say but thank you.

[Bavorskoami]

56. Moving post

Mira, Thank you for this remembrance. As an American GI stationed in Germany I visited Dachau, later as a teacher of German I took a group of American kids on a trip to Germany that included a visit to Dachau and later on a reunion trip with my old Army unit I visited Flossenbürg, the camp where Dietrich Bonhoeffer was executed. The high school kids I took over had no concept of the horror that occurred there until they saw me and and the young German tour guide in tears during the visit. I think they took it seriously and began to have some understanding than day. On another visit to Germany to meet up with some Army buddies I traced some of the route pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer took on his way to Flossenbürg. At the Flossenbürg camp I observed German school groups touring the camp and being led by teachers in discussions of the Holocaust. I thought the teachers were not white-washing anything and the pupils were very attentive and subdued. It was a good sign that some in Germany are facing up to the past.

[MrBig]

74. Thank you for sharing this

[HeiressofBickworth]

47. I lived in Germany 1965-67

I was about 20 when I went to Dachau and walked through the grounds. It was a mere 20 years after the war. Walked past mounds that were labeled ashes of unknown numbers. I walked along the blood ditches -- where for sport, the Nazi soldiers lined up prisoners and shot them through the head to see how many they could kill with one shot. I looked into the ovens where the bodies were burned. The prisoner barracks had been removed by that time, but the cement foundations were still in place. The administration building was a museum. I remember vividly the last picture on the wall of the museum -- it was a large wall-covering picture of the main courtyard of the camp showing prisoners shoulder to shoulder, filing the yard. The exit door was next -- opening the door upon the yard which was completely empty. Tears ran down my face the whole time I was there. I had read about Nazis and the Holocaust but there is nothing that can equal seeing in person where it happened.

As to the question of whether or not the Germans knew about the exterminations, I believe they not only knew and approved, but even BENEFITED from the removal of Jews. The homes and property of Jews were taken over by Germans seeking to improve their own lot. It can be summed up by one line of a movie I saw recently. A young Jewish man was looking for his family -- he went to his home which was occupied by Germans. The German wife says to the German husband, "but you said they were never coming back".

[marym625]

48. heartbreaking

Thank you for your memories. I can't even imagine what it was like just to see it. I don't know that I could. I am a very strong person when it comes to what I have to endure (though not strong like the people put in those camps) but I am not so strong about what others had to endure. I'm weak in fact.

I believe you are correct. They knew and many were happy about it. But there were people like Mira's father and family (reply#44) that did what they could do, at their own peril, to stop it

Thank you for sharing your memories.

[janlyn]

51. And yet with all of the atrocities done,

we as a collective human race still don't get it. This is what saddens me the most, knowing that prejudice and injustice is alive and well. That we haven't learned. We haven't seen how easily it continues to happen.
My mother was a child in WWII and I was a teen before she talked to me about it, before she revealed the big family secret. That my great grandmother had changed her name, changed her religion, all to avoid persecution that was alive and well even before the nazis started their killing. This one thing stays with me always, that I will never stay silent when I see an injustice, when I see others say nothing, I will speak. It has gotten me in trouble more than once, but the price of silence is to much for me to carry.
As I sit here and write this I am in tears, saddened by the choices my great grandmother had to make to stay safe. NO ONE should have to fear because of their religion or race. Silence is the greatest enemy, Evil thrives in silence,in turning away from what we know is right.

[marym625]

53. Thank you for sharing this

I agree with everything you said. And your story brought tears to my eyes as well. Many of the stories on this thread have. They're so personal and important for all of us.

I'm sorry your grandmother went through that. What a terrible thing to have to do. But how brave of her to do so and carry on.

I am one who won't let injustices pass either. What amazes me is how people can be blind to injustice about race, but not about sexuality. They can be quite outspoken about misogyny, yet ignore religious persecution. Makes no sense and makes me sad.

Thank you again. Beautiful reply.

[janlyn]

55. Thank you for your post!

In sharing our experiences we keep the candle lit. I plan on sharing my mothers memories with my grandchildren once they are old enough to understand. Maybe if enough of us do, then there will always be people who speaks out.

[marym625]

58. amen to that!

[spanone]

52. i can't imagine....

k&r...

[marym625]

54. Thank you. n/t

[lovemydog]

57. Thank you. We must never forget.

[marym625]

59. Thank you. n/t

[KitSileya]

60. My father took us to Dachau when I was a pre-teen.

I will never forget the big mounds of shoes, glasses etc that illustrated so vividly the sheer number of people exterminated. It made a deep impact on me, and shaped my views on Germany, and all other democratic countries that let atrocities happen.

I don't know my father's motive in taking us - his father was a nazi soldier who got my grandmother pregnant during the occupation, My father never met him. I just know that I couldn't stand anything German for a very long time after, and I therefore refused to learn the language.

[marym625]

61. That's quite a story.

Your poor grandmother. You never asked your dad about his feelings about his father?

That's a great deal for a child to have to process. I understand your reluctance to learn the language.


Thank you for sharing your story. I truly appreciate it.

[MannyGoldstein]

62. I am so thankful that your uncle and his brothers did what they did

For the world.

I've visited Dachau twice. It put my soul out of whack. http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014934629#post4

We had a big family reunion in NYC a few years back, probably 100 or so people on my mother's side from all over the world. A family tree hung on the wall, of course there were branches that suddenly ended in Europe in the 1930s and 1940s. I looked at all the people having a good time, and I couldn't help but to see the ones that weren't there, those who'd been exterminated and their descendents. Their absence became very real.

It can happen here, too.

[marym625]

64. This brought tears to my eyes

You and some others that have posted personal stories here, I can't thank you enough for sharing.

I'm so sorry for the losses your family suffered. For what those that were lost suffered.

Yes, it can happen here. It has in the past in other ways; the slaughter of the Native Americans, the slavery and lynching of black Americans, the internment of the Japanese Americans. Now, we are on the precipice of it happening again. And we have to stop it.

Thank you, Manny. great big

[marym625]

65. seriously?

Are you truly here denying the Holocaust?

My uncle was part of the liberation of Dachau. Deal with it. There were hundreds of camps. Hundreds. Of course there were thousands of those that liberated them.

[KittyWampus]

67. just served on the jury. Hope it gets hidden

[marym625]

68. He just joined

Just now. Just to deny the Holocaust and call my uncle a liar.

Asswipe

[Behind the Aegis]

70. It go squish!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=320492&sub=trans

[marym625]

71. Thank you

I love the reason.

I actually didn't even read the whole post and I completely missed the other reply to me. Shocked that someone on the jury told me I shouldn't alert but should confront. I did confront. But damn! Who on DU thinks holocaust deniers are okay on DU?

[marym625]

69. Wow

That was some seriously insane stuff. Glad he's gone. I alerted too.

Thank you

[marym625]

78. Thank you

I read your post incorrectly. Thought you alerted. Thank you for the vote to hide

He's already back with a different name

[marym625]

76. so you can sign up quickly

Bully for you.

Now go away.

[KitSileya]

80. Well, that made me sick to my stomach

Holocaust deniers are the lowest of the low. Good that he or she was squished like a bug so quickly - no one deserved it more.

[marym625]

81. The first one was the worst

Then when they came back with a new name, 3 posts on here in a couple minutes.

Yeah, whoever that is has some serious problems. Obviously an idiot but also a racist pig and a bigoted pos.

[Cha]

83. Mahalo for your tribute to honor the memory of your Uncle and the Mourning of Holocaust Victims,Mary

.. you wrote it so well and it evokes such memories of that unforgiveable time in History when evil prevailed over Millions of People. The victims of Hitler and those who stood by and did nothing.

It is very much a time to celebrate and honor those who tried their best to stop it, and those who helped people escape.. who were being hunted down like animals.

I am so sorry for what your Uncle and everyone had to go through that would, of course, affect them so drastically, as to change them forever.

It's actually been hard for me, too, to grasp that this even happened.. but, here we are.

We cannot let this happen again.. we will not stand by while other groups of people are being signaled out for mass condemnation and oppressed by bullies and tyrants.

[marym625]

84. Thank you, Cha.

You said that so well. We can't ever forget. And we must stop what is currently happening here.

The stories on this thread have touched me deeply. I'm honored so many shared such personal stories.



Thank you for your kind words.

Never Forget

[Cha]

86. It's so vital that we never forget.. thank you so much for your invaluable contribution to just

that Cause, Mary.

[marym625]

96. Same to you

You do it in so many of your posts

[Cha]

87. You have no idea what you're going on about.. but you got on DU just to show your ignorance... LOL

"You sickening little hypocrite

You regular target white males for mass condemnation.

It appears the lessons of the holocaust have not been learned by some"

Just in case the ol "name removed" brigand finds reason to strike again.

[herding cats]

89. It's OK, Cha.

That little fly was swatted down 7/0.

[Cha]

92. I saw that.. I wasn't fast enough.. someone had already alerts and gone to jury.. a shutout!

mahalo hcats

[herding cats]

88. Just stop

Not one person here is taking you seriously. You're the internet equivalent of a fly to be swatted away when you show up. It's just sad at this point.

[Cha]

90. I just alerted the abuse and he's gone, herding cats! I copied what he wrote.. just to

show his ignorance.. I thought "name removed" might be along any minute now!

[herding cats]

91. DU members have their fly swatters in hand.

Some people are just that transparent.

[Cha]

93. I'm a "sickening little hypocrite".. "condeming white males by the mass".. Rofl Did he have a wrong

number. Poor white males.. they have it so tough.. especially that one!

[herding cats]

94. He's defending the un-downtrodden

Yeah, I just made the word up, but it still applied. It's been a weird day on DU, but we can still band together when it matters. It gives me hope.

[marym625]

98. That we can

And holocaust deniers are way up there who we won't allow. .

[marym625]

97. so this is a DUer?

Not just some random Internet troll that keeps showing up on this post to deny reality?

[herding cats]

100. It's a random internet troll

Ignore them. They have a sad life and too much time on their hands and they've currently picked you to be their target. No big deal.

It's not personal, it's just a weirdo on the internet, of which there are far too many to count.

[marym625]

102. I assumed that

But then you or Change said something that made me think differently.

It's all good. They keep trying but fail.

Thank you!

[herding cats]

104. Peace to you, and thank you for the beautiful OP!

I rec'd it hours ago, and it was a perfect tribute for today. You did great!

Or, on edit, I thought I'd rec'd it. Now I have.

[marym625]

105. Why thank you!

Very nice of you. I appreciate it.

Peace to you too

[Cha]

101. It was Jeddas' 1 post.. and he got morphed into a name-removed... lickety split!

[marym625]

103. That's 3 or 4 times

In about an hour. They obviously have no life.

Sad little jeddas.

[marble falls]

123. I even had the honor of delivering pizza to one of them, none of them were up longer than a quick...

id, coming to a quick consensus and a zap.

None of these tools had more than fifteen minutes of air time, I can't imagine why they try to work this so hard.

[marym625]

129. Thank you

I truly appreciate the quick removal.

[Cha]

133. Mahalo marble falls!

[JDPriestly]

106. Thank you to your uncle for his service, his sacrifice. And thank you for posting this reminder.

Never forget.

[marym625]

107. Thank you. Never Forget

[Are_grits_groceries]

111. I had an older cousin who liberated one of the camps.

This cousin was a tough, mean SOB. My Mama told me that he and the other soldiers he was with were so horrified that they had to be ordered not to shoot every German they saw after that. They had to be threatened with court martial and prison.

[marym625]

116. I'm not surprised

Seeing what they did had to have caused an anger I don't think most of us will ever know.

Thanks for sharing this. I hope your cousin was able to deal with those feelings when he came back.

[Enthusiast]

114. Kicked

and recommended a whole bunch!

[marym625]

115. Thank you. n/t

[madamvlb]

117. I visited Dachau...

While serving overseas in the early 80's I visited Dachau, it still haunts me.

[marym625]

119. I would imagine

There is something about places where something horrific happened. I have only been to a couple of civil war battle fields and there is just a feeling about the place. A place like Dachau...



Never Forget

[ReRe]

120. K&R in rembrance

Thank you so much for sharing the remembrance of your uncle's life during and after the liberation. It has caused many of our fellow-DUers to come forward and share their stories of remembrance. Honestly, I have learned more in the last few days than I ever knew before. I was born several years after the liberation of the camps begun and none of my uncles were involved with liberating the camps, or had served and come home before that time. One uncle, who I never had the opportunity to know, was killed during the war.

I am so fearful of what is going to happen inside our own country what with FOX and all the right wing conservative AM Radio propagandists, not to mention the NRA gun nuts and the out-of-control police state.

[marym625]

125. Thank you

That's my favorite thing about this post, the personal stories people have shared. I wish I could post this thread for the world to see.

Yes, the groups, you mentioned and some specific people, O'Reilly, Rush and some others, are leading the path for another something really horrible to happen here. I'm truly scared of what can happen. The rhetoric is going to cause violence and maybe even someone's death. O'Reilly, I think, is the worst and seems to have a personal vendetta against Muslims.

Thank you for your kind words.

Never Forget

[polly7]

121. i had young uncles go to war, some nearly as boys, really, and killed and

maimed, one who was tortured and died in a German prison camp. Canadians were sent to the front lines immediately as soon as they arrived right at the start of the war. Another who came home a very broken, badly-injured man. My mom still cries remembering how much she loved and missed them. It took millions of lives, mostly Soviet lives lost, who fought desperately to get to the point those camps could be liberated, and thank God they were. The evil within is almost unimaginable to think about. I'm so glad your uncle came home, and so sorry for what he saw.

[marym625]

126. I'm sorry for your family losses

Thank you to your uncles and your family. I hope your mom can take some solace in the fact her brothers helped end the atrocities. Though I know, on a personal level, that doesn't really help.

So much loss because of an evil that spread so far, deep and wide. It's seems unimaginable that something like that evil could take such a hold. It makes what we're seeing happen now, all the more frightening.

Thank you and your family.

For your Uncles.

Never Forget

[polly7]

130. No, I'm sorry ....... they were her very young uncles.

Young men who she practically grew up with, as close as older brothers ... their four families all came over from Ontario at the same time to build homesteads here in Saskatchewan within half a mile of each other. The older she gets, the more she talks about them and it's hard to watch her remember the things they did together.

[wolfie001]

122. Your Uncle is an inspiration to all of us!

[marym625]

127. Thank you. Thank you very much.

[mac56]

124. My father in law was part of that unit.

[marym625]

128. I wonder if they knew each other

Though I believe there were multiple units at each camp. I am going to have to look that up.

Thank you to your father in law. I hope he fared well, though I don't think anyone was unchanged.



Never Forget

[mountain grammy]

131. Thank you for your beautiful post.

[marym625]

132. Thank you. n/t

[bravenak]

134. Great post, Mary.

I cried reading this and the replies.

[marym625]

135. Thank you

I truly am honored that people shared so much on this post. I wish I could pin it somewhere.

Thank you again, bravenak. I appreciate your reading it and your reply

[smirkymonkey]

136. Thank you for sharing your story.

These posts always end up having me in tears. The enormity of the tragedy is just to much to contemplate sometimes. I often have no words for what I feel.

[marym625]

137. Thank you

I know exactly what you mean. And the stories on here are all so touching.

Thank you again.