"Historically, the most terrible things...have resulted not from disobedience but from obedience."

[villager]

Came across this Howard Zinn quote online today -- posted, happily, by a school (an alternative school, alas, rather than a "regular" one). Here's the full quote:

"Historically, the most terrible things - war, genocide, and slavery - have resulted not from disobedience but from obedience." --Howard Zinn

Always worth reposting.

[sabrina 1]

1. Such a simple statement and so true ...

[SamKnause]

2. K&R

[Scuba]

3. K&R

[stage left]

4. K&R nt

[Android3.14]

5. I like Zinn, but this is largely nonsense

Terrible things happen when people obey, disobey, or eat tuna sandwiches. Also wonderful things.

Terrible obedience things - Crusades, fascism, apartheid, etc.

Terrible disobedience things - The south rebelling against the federal government over slavery, the modern day rebels in Ukraine, animal poaching, the destruction of protected species, companies ignoring environmental regulations.

I would argue that, rather than promoting and glorifying disobedience for the sake of a provocative and pithy sentence, we should promote good governance over totalitarianism or atavistic anarchy.

[villager]

6. I think he was cautioning against being a "Good German," as opposed to "atavistic anarchy"

Certainly, there are good laws on the books.

And certainly, there are very bad laws on the books.

But the question is about yielding to those in power, for the sake of "getting along," and not riling them up.

Additionally, the South "rebelling" was its own form of obedience, to the idea of a Confederacy, which Red State voters -- certainly the white ones -- still have. A true "rebel" in the South would've been anti-slavery.

[Android3.14]

8. I agree that was his intent

But the problem is that people will use it to disobey good laws as well as bad.

[villager]

10. Well, the kinds of people that piss all over environmental laws tend not to read Zinn

In fact, they usually couch their actions as fealty to their own higher (external) authority.

"Authority," by and large, tends to mean "destruction."

[Jack Rabbit]

7. K/R

Every time I read a nows story nowadays I am reminded of the advanced placement history course that some right wing group or another is attempting to bring to Jefferson County, Colorado. This is the one that encourages "respect for authority, obedience to the law and the benefits of the free enterprise system."

Thank you for post Professor Zinn's remarks. That, and Dr. Martin Luther King's Letter from a Birmingham Jail, are perhaps the reasons why that program sounds so sinister to me and should to everybody.

Of course, there is nothing new about this kind of civil disobedience. It was evidenced sublimely in the refusal of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego to obey the laws of Nebuchadnezzar, on the ground that a higher moral law was at stake. It was practiced superbly by the early Christians, who were willing to face hungry lions and the excruciating pain of chopping blocks rather than submit to certain unjust laws of the Roman Empire. To a degree, academic freedom is a reality today because Socrates practiced civil disobedience. In our own nation, the Boston Tea Party represented a massive act of civil disobedience.

We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal." It was "illegal" to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler's Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers. If today I lived in a Communist country where certain principles dear to the Christian faith are suppressed, I would openly advocate disobeying that country's antireligious laws.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

9. ....

?w=914&h=912

[emanymton]

11. Witty Quotes Prove Nothing. - Voltaire

[villager]

12. In that "Everything I Say Is a Lie" category of quotes

Voltaire knew how to get meta, with his language.