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CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 06:03 PM Jan 2015

Picasso’s War: The Masterpiece that Changed the World

“No, painting is not done to decorate apartments. It is an instrument of war.”
-- Pablo Picasso
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Guernica. 1937. Museo Nacional Centro de Arte Reina Sofía

Monday, April 26th, 1937 was a busy market day in Guernica, the cultural capital of the Basque people, when twenty-five bombers of Hitler’s Condor Legion, accompanied by twenty Italian Fiat Fighters, dumped one hundred thousand pounds of high-explosive and incendiary bombs on the village. The attack lasted for over 3 hours. Terrified inhabitants who tried to escape the bombs were cut down by the strafing machine guns of the accompanying fighters. Seventy percent of the town was destroyed and sixteen hundred people killed or wounded.

[IMG][/IMG]

The attack was launched on the orders of the Nationalist leader, General Franco, who was waging a war against the republican government of Spain. Guernica had served as a testing ground for a new Nazi military tactic: blanket bombing a civilian population to demoralize the enemy -- Guernica had no strategic value as a military target. Franco, the Germans and the Italians, denied any responsibility for the attack but few were fooled.

Before the attack Pablo Picasso had agreed to paint a large mural for the Spanish Pavilion of the 1937 Paris World’s Fair. The devastation of Guernica gave him his subject and he poured his rage onto canvas -- “Cubism with a conscience” in the words of art historian Simon Schama.

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Stylistically a broad canvas with chopped up images, the work taken as a whole is paradoxically unified in its impact, perhaps because it was painted over a three month period by the artist as a full throttle cry of pain. Picasso made the decision that it should be devoid of color -- black, white and gray only --what his contemporary Barnett Newman would later discuss in “The Ideographic Picture” as “the greyer, softer chaos that is tragedy.” He placed the attack at night, highly suggestive of unseen terrors that come out of deepest darkness. Picasso also seems to be commenting here about the shock effect on a public who consumed its news through the black and white of newspapers by using a newsprint design in the mural’s images.

Artist Nicholas Lacy-Brown points out the prominence of female grief present, notably the mother with a dead baby in her arms, and that weeping women are common in Spanish art, comparing Picasso’s treatment to “icons of the Maria Dolorosa and the Virgin Mary with her dead son spread across her knees,” a kind of Spanish Pieta.

Simon Schama devotes an entire segment of the TV series “The Power of Art” to “Guernica.” In it he describes the human eye with an incandescent filiment as the “naked light bulb in the torturers cell” (and indeed a cell window appears over the head of the screaming man on the picture’s right side). An outstretched arm brings a candle’s flame -- an offer of flickering hope or a hopelessly weak light against such a glowing menace?

But Schama also calls our attention to the painting’s further religious reference: the stigmata occurring on the fallen warrior’s hand that echoes Goya’s indelible imagery of the stigmata on a peasant’s hand before the invading French soldiers’ guns.
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

Many art experts provide extensive analysis of Picasso’s use of the bullfight references -- the proud and disengaged stillness of the bull at the far left and the horse’s anguished cry and raised body. Lacy-Brown suggests that the horse is the artist’s symbiology of Spanish pride and fighting power against brutality used against them. That the bull “remains untouched by this tragedy emphasizes that the drama going on around him remains an exclusively human one...” A fallen warrior (or matador?) lies dead at its feet, his broken sword still clutched in his hand. The bull’s impervious stance is perhaps the hope that resistance to the Franco regime will be steadfast until the dictator is gone and Spain is free.

Picasso, however, had commented that the viewers must decide the meaning of the symbols in his work, according to their own individual interpretations.

The painting continued to be a rallying cry against fascism after the Fair. It toured European capitals and in 1939 the mural arrived in New York for a fund-raising visit to support Spanish war relief. During that time the Museum of Modern Art had become its semipermanent home where it stayed safely from the bombs and other violence of war in Europe. Picasso was fine with letting his masterpiece reside there, saying “It will do the most good in America.” Sadly, the artist did not outlive Franco, who continued to want to reclaim the painting “for Spain.” But it had been Picasso’s stern wish that it not be returned until “public liberties were restored” to his country.

Unfortunately, for America’s audience, the MoMA’s exhibit space was cramped, low ceilinged and harshly lit, diminishing the impact of the highest note in the museum’s collection.

[IMG][/IMG]

Ironically, in 1967, 400 artists responding to the Vietnam War signed a petition urging Picasso to withdraw it from the United States “for the duration of the war.” Once again, “Guernica” was enmeshed in a political and bloody crossroads. It was not until 1981, six years after Franco’s death, that the canvas was returned to Spain. And to the bitter end MoMA fought, but ultimately lost, its possession of the work.

In Madrid “Guernica” was lodged temporarily at the woefully unprepared Prado (a situation that became a bit of a hot mess all of its own) while a rancorous regional fight broke out as to where it should have a permanent home. In 1997, the new modern art Guggenheim Museum opened in Bilbao, the capital of the Basque region. Frank Gehry had designed dedicated space to hold the work, in a room he called “The Chapel.” The masterpiece belonged here, the Museum argued, as Bilbao was its rightful “home.” Bitter accusations against the “Madrilenos” ensued. They would not even allow the mural to be exhibited at the Guggenheim’s opening because there were renewed fears (not publicly expressed) that once the Basque nationalists got it, they would not let it return. Madrid said only that the canvas was in such a delicate condition that a move would damage it irrevocably -- it had suffered in being moved thirty-two times over its life. La Reina Sofia, the national museum of 20th century art established in 1992 in Madrid, would be at long last “Guernica”s permanent home.

“Guernica” at La Reina Sofia
[IMG][/IMG]

But still the mural provoked controversy. A tapestry of “Guernica” done in brown and taupe was donated to the United Nations by Nelson Rockefeller’s estate in 1982. It resides just outside of the Security Council room, intending to remind world leaders of the horrors of war. It was there in early 2003 that Secretary of State Colin Powell was to make his statement about the casus belli necessitating U.S. aerial bombardment, codename “shock and awe,” of Baghdad. Powell would be standing in front of the 20th century’s most iconic protest against war’s inhumanity as his backdrop --- the optics for the Bush administration would be unfortunate, to say the least. When the announcement was made, a blue UN curtain and flags had been hastily arranged to cover the tapestry. Sadly, it was -- like the painting -- a prophecy of things to come.

[IMG][/IMG]
bombardment of Baghdad March 20, 2003


Note: On May 12, 1999, the New York Times reported that, after sixty-one years, in a declaration adopted on April 24, 1999, the German Parliament formally apologized to the citizens of Guernica for the role the Condor Legion played in bombing the town. No apology has yet been issued by the Spanish government for its role in the attack.

77 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Picasso’s War: The Masterpiece that Changed the World (Original Post) CTyankee Jan 2015 OP
Obama should apologize to the citizens of Iraq ... GeorgeGist Jan 2015 #1
Yes, I'm afraid that many horrors were released with that war... CTyankee Jan 2015 #4
Actually, a tragedy for the world. nt kelliekat44 Jan 2015 #43
why? Obama had nothing to do with Kyle OKNancy Jan 2015 #49
Thanks. elleng Jan 2015 #52
Ah, such an amazing painting and that goes for its history too. CaliforniaPeggy Jan 2015 #2
Shameful that they covered it up! CTyankee Jan 2015 #3
As a child I saw a photo of the painting... catnhatnh Jan 2015 #5
yes, the taupe and brown tapestry doesn't really do the work any good, IMO... CTyankee Jan 2015 #6
I'm a hopeless Philistine... catnhatnh Jan 2015 #7
I think DUers also appreciate the political aspect that this painting always seems to CTyankee Jan 2015 #8
I must have saw it at MOMA at the same time you did brush Jan 2015 #9
K and R---always a pleasure reading your posts. panader0 Jan 2015 #10
Isn't it amazing? I had no idea either and I've seen that painting in the Prado... CTyankee Jan 2015 #15
You've been to the Prado? Brigid Jan 2015 #17
Yes, in 2006. At that point Guernica was at La Reina Sofia but that was right CTyankee Jan 2015 #20
it is hard to see, isn't it? Leave it to Schama to catch it... CTyankee Jan 2015 #24
Damn CTyankee Unknown Beatle Jan 2015 #11
You are very kind. Thank you. I really just want to get word and image out to CTyankee Jan 2015 #23
I second that Hekate Jan 2015 #40
My all-time favorite painting. Brigid Jan 2015 #12
Love to your contributions of our humanity-n/t marked50 Jan 2015 #13
I was actually privileged to see Guernica.. virgdem Jan 2015 #14
I lived in NYC at the time and for some reason did not see it... CTyankee Jan 2015 #18
Oh yes, the Pollock painting looks great in that space. lovemydog Jan 2015 #22
Ah, you can see that progression with "One." Pollock was obsessed with Picasso... CTyankee Jan 2015 #26
IIRC, it was John Negroponte who had the tapestry covered nuxvomica Jan 2015 #16
Negroponte was our UN ambassador and evidently had endured some shots of CTyankee Jan 2015 #19
Thanks for the great history. Guernica lovemydog Jan 2015 #21
Magnificent - malaise Jan 2015 #25
thank you, malaise! It's kinda long but it does give a pretty good picture... CTyankee Jan 2015 #28
Beautifully written and interesting malaise Jan 2015 #31
Malaise, you are sweet and wonderful. Thank you! CTyankee Jan 2015 #36
I saw this as a teen in NY. surrealAmerican Jan 2015 #27
I like the more open space because it doesn't feel so threatening... CTyankee Jan 2015 #29
I remember the covering of Guernica during the Powell presentation here on DU underpants Jan 2015 #30
I wasn't here yet...came in 2004 late fall... CTyankee Jan 2015 #33
Looks like gaza or the other shit we do Ichingcarpenter Jan 2015 #32
What a pleasure to read LittleBlue Jan 2015 #34
Oh, you are welcome. I do enjoy writing these essays. Fun to get art out there! CTyankee Jan 2015 #38
. struggle4progress Jan 2015 #35
what a testament to things to come! LIdice, Hiroshima, and on and on... CTyankee Jan 2015 #37
There is so much interesting history here. brer cat Jan 2015 #39
Thank you so much 2naSalit Jan 2015 #41
About 1967 I obtained a fairly large print of Guernica on good stock paper. Vietnam, of course. Hekate Jan 2015 #42
k&r Liberal_in_LA Jan 2015 #44
True story. When I saw "Guernica" at the Museum of Modern Art ... kwassa Jan 2015 #45
If I had been there, I would probably still be on the floor. Brigid Jan 2015 #48
A beautiful post! Thank you CTyankee! n/t FourScore Jan 2015 #46
great post, thank you! bettyellen Jan 2015 #47
50th rec. Lest we think this scene belongs in a museum> leveymg Jan 2015 #50
Unfortunately, what was considered an atrocity then has become commonplace now. Tierra_y_Libertad Jan 2015 #51
Guernica 3D: demmiblue Jan 2015 #53
Spanish make good painters. Octafish Jan 2015 #54
Is the 3rd image you posted Botero? CTyankee Jan 2015 #55
It is Botero...''Guantanamo'' Octafish Jan 2015 #56
It looked like Botero. Total guess on my part. CTyankee Jan 2015 #60
K&R! Thank you for posting. smirkymonkey Jan 2015 #57
Thank you. I am so glad you enjoyed it! CTyankee Jan 2015 #61
I saw it when it was at MOMA edhopper Jan 2015 #58
I'd really like to go back to Madrid...there are those 3 art museums within CTyankee Jan 2015 #59
If you go edhopper Jan 2015 #62
It's in Barcelona or Madrid? CTyankee Jan 2015 #65
Madrid edhopper Feb 2015 #67
I saw a massive Goya retrospective at the Prado, a great, great exhibit. kwassa Jan 2015 #66
Thank you for the post & all the history with the ptg. I saw it at MOMA once c.1980. appalachiablue Jan 2015 #63
great, wonderful history of Spanish art in the late 1930s and 40s and then to NYC. CTyankee Jan 2015 #64
I think there are documentaries, IIRC. Also, of course, Schama's PBS series CTyankee Feb 2015 #69
The lightbulb and the horse marions ghost Feb 2015 #68
I like Schama's explication of the lightbulb...but I've read other commentaries CTyankee Feb 2015 #70
I see that Guernica is still being fought over on wikipedia... marions ghost Feb 2015 #71
I'm not surprised. Due to space constraints I had to leave out other historical CTyankee Feb 2015 #72
Yes Guernica marions ghost Feb 2015 #73
I don't like that it is reproduced in color in the tapestry as I am a bit of a purist CTyankee Feb 2015 #74
Agreed marions ghost Feb 2015 #75
The story is that Nelson Rockefeller want to buy the mural but couldn't. So he CTyankee Feb 2015 #76
Interesting marions ghost Feb 2015 #77

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
4. Yes, I'm afraid that many horrors were released with that war...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 06:43 PM
Jan 2015

a huge mistake for our country and a tragedy for the people of Iraq...do we never learn?

CaliforniaPeggy

(149,499 posts)
2. Ah, such an amazing painting and that goes for its history too.
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 06:16 PM
Jan 2015

I knew Picasso had done the painting to honor the destruction of the village Guernica, but I did not know the rest of the history.

How ironic that Powell stood in front of a copy to make his announcement about "shock and awe." And how horrifying.

Thank you, my dear CTyankee!

K&R

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
3. Shameful that they covered it up!
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 06:22 PM
Jan 2015

And the irony was not lost on LOTS of people both here and abroad.

I will bet that Powell, if he has a conscience, has regrets about that day.

catnhatnh

(8,976 posts)
5. As a child I saw a photo of the painting...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 06:44 PM
Jan 2015

in a 7th grade social studies book and the image stayed with me. Years later I saw the painting with a friend at MOMA and was truly shocked-the textbook gave no hint as to the size of the piece which was overwhelming-but the book also never mentioned it was done in black and white-for over a decade I had assume only the textbook photo was black and white and had expected vivid colors in the actual painting...

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
6. yes, the taupe and brown tapestry doesn't really do the work any good, IMO...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 06:49 PM
Jan 2015

to me, it violates the artist's intention which should be inviolate. Giving in to the temptation to introduce color into it defeats the purpose of the piece. That's an essay all to itself...nonetheless I am glad it still is at the UN...

catnhatnh

(8,976 posts)
7. I'm a hopeless Philistine...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 06:53 PM
Jan 2015

but a good friend with an MFA has knocked one or two rough edges off. Even I knew it was a treasure.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
8. I think DUers also appreciate the political aspect that this painting always seems to
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 07:04 PM
Jan 2015

provoke. Franco tried very hard to blame the republican government for instigating the attack on Guernica. My essay doesn't touch on the Cold War's impact on this painting. It was intense. There were some real evil lies told by the McCarthyites about the truth behind this work of art.

Glad to hear about your "conversion"! You are NOT a PHilistine if you are open to art's message and power. It is in human nature to love art. And art always saves you...

brush

(53,721 posts)
9. I must have saw it at MOMA at the same time you did
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 07:09 PM
Jan 2015

I think it was sometime in the '80s before it was shipped back to Spain.

Yes it's huge and has incredible impact . . . must be close to thirty feet wide.

Picasso was not a good person to the women in his life but he was genius apart from most other artists.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
15. Isn't it amazing? I had no idea either and I've seen that painting in the Prado...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:20 PM
Jan 2015

Leave it to Simon Schama to search that out...

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
20. Yes, in 2006. At that point Guernica was at La Reina Sofia but that was right
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:31 PM
Jan 2015

nearby and we could just walk over and to see it.

The whole visit took a toll on my arthritic back....be advised that the Prado is VAST. Prepare a list of what you MUST see and plan accordingly!

Unknown Beatle

(2,672 posts)
11. Damn CTyankee
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 07:21 PM
Jan 2015

Please write a book about art and it's place in history. I'll be first in line to buy it. I always look forward to Fridays and always search out your posts.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
23. You are very kind. Thank you. I really just want to get word and image out to
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:39 PM
Jan 2015

people about art and I figure that a website such as DU appreciates that. So I try to dedicate it to that audience.

Please also know that I research these extensively. They are not all my original thoughts. Some are but many are those that I have read in preparation for my essays. These are people who have enriched me and I try to credit them for enriching others here on DU even further. I have my own ideas and advance them but there are others who know far more than I about art.

virgdem

(2,122 posts)
14. I was actually privileged to see Guernica..
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:06 PM
Jan 2015

in 1967 when it was displayed at MoMA in New York. Even though it was not the best displayed work of art, it still had great impact with the audience as a memorable and important piece of art.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
18. I lived in NYC at the time and for some reason did not see it...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:23 PM
Jan 2015

but it was out on loan everywhere for a lot of its tenure there. I feel bad for MoMA but they really were bad about returning it...they were really scared about losing their big "anchor" painting...BTW, they replaced the space with Jackson Pollock's "One."

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
22. Oh yes, the Pollock painting looks great in that space.
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:39 PM
Jan 2015

It's another great choice for modern art as well, since 'One' can be viewed as a reaction to the chaos caused by the atomic bomb. This was pointed out in Rollo May's book The Age of Anxiety.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
26. Ah, you can see that progression with "One." Pollock was obsessed with Picasso...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:50 PM
Jan 2015

he was kinda overcome by it...but he got over it. I think the whole art world in New York in the early1940s was pretty much overcome with Picasso, but oh, what wonders were produced in that era! New York was the art mecca of the world...

nuxvomica

(12,403 posts)
16. IIRC, it was John Negroponte who had the tapestry covered
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:22 PM
Jan 2015

Also, folks might want to check out Henri Rousseau's "la Guerre", which I think was source of inspiration for Picasso's masterpiece.

I was fortunate to see "Guernica" at MOMA in the early 70s. No reproduction can do it justice yet it is always powerful and moving in any presentation. Thanks for posting this history.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
19. Negroponte was our UN ambassador and evidently had endured some shots of
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:27 PM
Jan 2015

him in front of the mural. Of course, he had the most sensitivity to its power. He knew the winds of war were coming and pulled whatever strings he could to get the mural covered up. It was an embarrassment. Even NYT columnist Maureen Dowd wrote a scathing piece about it in the NYT.

lovemydog

(11,833 posts)
21. Thanks for the great history. Guernica
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:36 PM
Jan 2015

is an anti-fascist art masterpiece. I'm glad it has a permanent home.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
28. thank you, malaise! It's kinda long but it does give a pretty good picture...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:53 PM
Jan 2015

what a fascinating insight it is into the art of late 1930s and early 1940s in both Europe and the U.S. Thank god "Guernica" was here instead of Europe during WW2.

surrealAmerican

(11,357 posts)
27. I saw this as a teen in NY.
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:53 PM
Jan 2015

Despite the odd, low-ceilinged spaced, it was very effective. Even there, it was hard to walk away from. You just stood transfixed, mere inches from the work.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
29. I like the more open space because it doesn't feel so threatening...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 08:56 PM
Jan 2015

I get your point, tho.

Actually, this painting might have just moved to a new space in our art lived experience, and that might be very different from my own older viewpoint...not sure what that is, tho...hmmm

underpants

(182,551 posts)
30. I remember the covering of Guernica during the Powell presentation here on DU
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 09:00 PM
Jan 2015

It was a topic of discussion and very educational.

Pure optics. Or, as Frank Rich aptly described the W years - Empty Spectacle

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
33. I wasn't here yet...came in 2004 late fall...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 09:11 PM
Jan 2015

kinda stupid of Bush to decree to Negroponte to get the mural covered...it got extensive coverage in the press and was an embarrassment to the Administration...stupid to the max...who did the think they were kidding?

Ichingcarpenter

(36,988 posts)
32. Looks like gaza or the other shit we do
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 09:05 PM
Jan 2015

in the name Of freedom.

He would have done a painting about Iraq and gaza.
if he was alive..........he hated terror like is displayed now as defensive agression against civilians.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
38. Oh, you are welcome. I do enjoy writing these essays. Fun to get art out there!
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 09:31 PM
Jan 2015

There are new generations out there that need to know it exists!

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
37. what a testament to things to come! LIdice, Hiroshima, and on and on...
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 09:27 PM
Jan 2015

Gernica has an indelible place in history...

brer cat

(24,502 posts)
39. There is so much interesting history here.
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 09:39 PM
Jan 2015

Thank you for all the effort you put into the Friday art threads, CTyankee. It is appreciated.

2naSalit

(86,289 posts)
41. Thank you so much
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 09:42 PM
Jan 2015

for these highly educational posts! I love art and I have come to look forward to your Friday posts to feed my mind with worthy info.

Hekate

(90,496 posts)
42. About 1967 I obtained a fairly large print of Guernica on good stock paper. Vietnam, of course.
Fri Jan 30, 2015, 09:48 PM
Jan 2015

Vietnam was heavily on our minds, of course. I was in my second year of college, and it hung in my apartment during those years. It's rolled up in a tube in the garage now...

Thanks as always, CTy, for a beautiful and meaningful essay. The viewer can feel Picasso's outrage shimmering in that painting, and it speaks to every war that ever was and ever will be, as a timeless testament to man's inhumanity to man.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
45. True story. When I saw "Guernica" at the Museum of Modern Art ...
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 12:21 AM
Jan 2015

it was a weekday, I was alone in the room, except for a guard, and I was spending a lot of time studying the painting.

This middle-aged woman walks around the corner, looks at the painting, and declares in a thick Brooklyn accent, and in a loud voice:

"They cawl this AHT? They cawl this AHT? A two-yea old could paint better than this!" and then she stomped out of the room. The guard and I couldn't stop laughing.

Brigid

(17,621 posts)
48. If I had been there, I would probably still be on the floor.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:02 PM
Jan 2015

But I don't know if I would be laughing or crying.

 

Tierra_y_Libertad

(50,414 posts)
51. Unfortunately, what was considered an atrocity then has become commonplace now.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 05:34 PM
Jan 2015

From Warsaw to London to Dresden to Hiroshima to Nanking to Gaza to Baghdad and on and on and on.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
54. Spanish make good painters.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 06:50 PM
Jan 2015

And warriors.



And poets.



And journalists.



Thank you for another outstanding OP and thread, CTyankee! Picasso was profound, as were the people who stood with him. The Spanish Civil War was prelude to the barbaric events of the last century and through the present day.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
55. Is the 3rd image you posted Botero?
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 06:55 PM
Jan 2015

Thank you so much for your post. Spain has seemingly infinite wonders. I thought my trip there in 2010 changed my life. I loved the art, the architecture and the food. And it was beautiful. I loved the Basque region, even tho it was very cold when I visited and even had snow. Bilbao's Guggenheim was a terrific experience.

Octafish

(55,745 posts)
56. It is Botero...''Guantanamo''
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 07:28 PM
Jan 2015
https://www.transcend.org/tms/2014/10/new-evidence-links-cia-to-the-american-psychological-associations-war-on-terror-ethics/

Thank you for sharing that. My wife and her parents traveled in Spain. Hearing your description, and the exemplary article above, makes me want to see Iberia, its treasures and marvelous people more than ever. My favorite book is the Cervantes and everything by Borges.

PS: While he was Flemish, Prado has the Bosch, if memory serves...

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
60. It looked like Botero. Total guess on my part.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 08:30 PM
Jan 2015

Yeah, the Spanish have this art thing going...all the way back to Velasquez...quite a history.

Oh and god I loved the Spanish cuisine. It's funny that when you order a green salad at a restaurant in Spain there is tuna in it...

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
59. I'd really like to go back to Madrid...there are those 3 art museums within
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 08:21 PM
Jan 2015

walking distance of each other and only one I haven't browsed. I was in the Prado and the Reina Sofia but not the Thysen-Bornesemism (sp.). I spent so much time in the Prado and then had to dash to the Reina Sofia I had no time to get to the last one. They are helpfully all in one section of Madrid.

I'd like to get back to Madrid but I think the south of Spain and a stay in Barcelona call me...

edhopper

(33,441 posts)
62. If you go
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 08:53 PM
Jan 2015

You must go to the Sorolla House. Simply wonderful.

I went to th T B but I can't remember which paintings were where.

kwassa

(23,340 posts)
66. I saw a massive Goya retrospective at the Prado, a great, great exhibit.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 09:13 PM
Jan 2015

and the collection including Velasquez, Rubens, and Hieronymous Bosch's "The Garden of Earthly Delights".

Many a masterpiece there.

appalachiablue

(41,102 posts)
63. Thank you for the post & all the history with the ptg. I saw it at MOMA once c.1980.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 08:58 PM
Jan 2015

Paris' Picasso Museum in the Marais finally reopened last fall; we went late-90s when still under renovation in the same elegant 17th c. baroque Hotel Sale. It holds a lot of his work & favorite pieces by other artists. In grad. school the art of Spain was a major focus, Murillo, Zurbaran, El Greco, Goya & Picasso, what a genius.
Milos Forman directed the Spanish produced film, "Goya's Ghosts" (2006) with Natalie Portman, Javier Bardem & Stellan Skarsgard as Goya. Parts of the Goya story are fiction but the script & cast are excellent with ample realism & horrors of the Napoleonic era of turmoil in Spain 1792. There must be a film about Picasso but I can't recall, unlike two at least for Van Gogh.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
64. great, wonderful history of Spanish art in the late 1930s and 40s and then to NYC.
Sat Jan 31, 2015, 09:06 PM
Jan 2015

I love the whole sequence from the 30s to the 50s in NYC. Fabulous era for art in America.

All those artists from Europe had to take refuge in NYC during he war. It was a real surge of art in that city at that time...

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
69. I think there are documentaries, IIRC. Also, of course, Schama's PBS series
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 09:57 AM
Feb 2015

"The Power of Art" which is a book as well.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
70. I like Schama's explication of the lightbulb...but I've read other commentaries
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 10:07 AM
Feb 2015

that portray it more benignly. What I saw was a tie in with the cell window over the screaming man in the right.

I must say that when I was gathering images off Google for this thread, I was mesmerized by that last image of our bombing of Baghdad. The comparison to Guernica was chilling. What Picasso did was horrifyingly prescient.

An interesting account in a longish book on Guernica that I used to research this essay was de Kooning's reaction to this mural. He was a refugee from the Nazis and had seen the utter devastation of Rotterdam which IIRC was payback for our Dresden bombing. de Kooning was shaken by Picasso's masterpiece. I would take that as an authentication of Picasso's artistry.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
71. I see that Guernica is still being fought over on wikipedia...
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 10:42 AM
Feb 2015
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk%3AGuernica_%28painting%29



Harper's cover 2003

Will we ever forget the draping of the tapestry reproduction of Guernica that hangs in the UN--while Colin Powell delivered his call to war in 2003?

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
72. I'm not surprised. Due to space constraints I had to leave out other historical
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 11:01 AM
Feb 2015

instances surrounding this painting. There was a huge amount of information about the Cold War and the vicious lie that republican planes did the bombing (!) which would be a thread all of itself. And of course the attempt at defacement while at MoMA, which mercifully did no permanent harm.

Of course, all this wrangling just further proves Schama's point: the power of art.

I expect that there will be further arguments as time goes on. After all, the tapestry is still hanging outside of the Security Council uncovered...

P.S. In a later interview Picasso said he DID make that remark to the German officer in his studio. And yes, he had started thinking about the World's Fair mural when Guernica was bombed. He produced it in a remarkably short time.

Gernika is the Basque name for the town we call Guernica.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
73. Yes Guernica
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 11:16 AM
Feb 2015

proves the power of art--even still, silent, old-fashioned art--which has perhaps even more power in this age of endless proliferation of images flitting across our screens. Guernica continues to accrue totemic status. And we need art to do that.

The UN is a fitting place for the tapestry. So symbolic that they covered it up for Powell. Says it all.
Hear no evil, see no evil while perpetrating evil.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
74. I don't like that it is reproduced in color in the tapestry as I am a bit of a purist
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 11:21 AM
Feb 2015

when it comes to violating the basic integrity of the piece. Picasso made a very clear choice. Mark Rothko wondered why Picasso chose to omit color. But Picasso really influenced Rothko's art that we all hail today as huge breakthroughs.

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
75. Agreed
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 11:38 AM
Feb 2015

it is starker in black and white and that was the original concept and should have been adhered to. And it contrasted with Picasso's other works. Today it probably wouldn't have been colorized and maybe wouldn't even be made at all, but I like it in the UN.

CTyankee

(63,881 posts)
76. The story is that Nelson Rockefeller want to buy the mural but couldn't. So he
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 11:56 AM
Feb 2015

hired a very good Aubusson weaver to do a tapestry. It hung in Rockefeller's upstate NY home. After his death, his widow Happy donated it to the UN. Originally, I had planned on putting a photo of the tapestry in this thread but it annoyed me a little too much. It's true to the basic design of the painting but the colorization is what I can't fathom.

I saw some very fine tapestries of Goya paintings at the excellent MFA exhibit of Goya works (some privately held and never lent out before) that just closed a couple of weeks ago. The tapestries were variations also...of the complete design, altho they were very well done...

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
77. Interesting
Sun Feb 1, 2015, 12:22 PM
Feb 2015

--yes the sepia tones must have been done to make it warmer. I wonder if the size is the same--it appears to be smaller.

This tradition of doing weavings of paintings is interesting...one way to get the huge size that no photo reproduction can do (certainly not then). I like the idea that it has texture. But I agree with you entirely that it should have been done in b&w.

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