Richard Sherman, Seahawks, says calling him a "thug" is the same as calling him the N word.

[pnwmom]

And he's right. Would they be calling this outspoken 3.9 GPA from Stanford University a "thug" if he were white or Asian?

So when you hear someone call Richard Sherman a thug -- just remember, it says a lot more about the speaker than about the football player.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24417234

During a Wednesday press conference, Sherman was asked if "thug," a word that was used often on message boards and social media to describe the Seahawks cornerback, bothers him more than any other term.

"The reason it bothers me is because it seems like it's an accepted way of calling somebody the N-word now," he said. "It's like everybody else said the N-word and then they say 'thug' and that's fine. It kind of takes me aback and it's kind of disappointing because they know.

"What's the definition of a thug? Really? Can a guy on a football field just talking to people [be a thug?] ... There was a hockey game where they didn't even play hockey! (Laughter from the media) They just threw the puck aside and started fighting. I saw that and said, 'Ah, man, I'm the thug? What's going on here?'" (More laughter from the media). So I'm really disappointed in being called a thug," he said.

Later, Sherman explained that the term was especially troubling given that it's something he's endured his whole life.

"I know some 'thugs,' and they know I'm the furthest thing from a thug," Sherman said. "I've fought that my whole life, just coming from where I'm coming from. Just because you hear Compton (Calif.), you hear Watts, you hear cities like that, you just think 'thug, he's a gangster, he's this, that, and the other,' and then you hear Stanford, and they're like, 'oh man, that doesn't even make sense, that's an oxymoron.'

SNIP

http://www.richardsherman25.com/pages/i-am-richard-sherman

I was born and raised in Compton, California – proud of where I came from and blessed to have family that was adamant on studying and learning. At Dominguez High School, I played football as a wide receiver, cornerback, punt/kick returner, and ran track. Track was my second love, and something I turned out to be pretty good at. In fact, Track and Field News named me as one of the nations top high school triple jumpers. Athletics played a large role in my High School career, but I am most proud of my 4.2 grade point average and the hours put in with my teammates to help them get into college.

"I'm trying my best to get them where I'm going, to the college level, I'm helping them study for the SAT. A lot of people come in blind in what they need to know, not knowing one day they could be a top college prospect."

I received numerous offers to play for the nation’s top programs, even local powerhouse USC. Ultimately, I chose Stanford University to make a statement about the importance of education. This decision made me the first athlete in over 20 years qualified to attend Stanford on both academic and athletic merits.

[Nye Bevan]

1. It's not unusual to use this word for white guys.

https://www.google.com/search?q=zimmerman+thug&sitesearch=democraticunderground.com&gws_rd=ssl

[pnwmom]

2. Wow. You're actually comparing him to George Zimmerman, the murderer.

Sherman, the student who worked hard enough in high school to get a 4.2, and at Stanford to get a 3.0 -- along with playing sports.

You're comparing him to a creep like Zimmerman.

I'm stunned.

But you've kind of proven my point. It doesn't matter what a young black man might accomplish. Some people will always think he's a thug.

[Nye Bevan]

6. OK, point taken.

I see that Geraldo Rivera expressed regret for using that word to describe Sherman.

Geraldo Rivera, who has come under fire in the past for referring to slain teen Trayvon Martin as a thug, now admits that the word has uncomfortable racial connotations.

“I called Richard Sherman a thug when he ranted about Michael Crabtree. He said the use of the word thug was the new N-word. I pondered that. I have come to agree with Richard Sherman, the Stanford grad. I will never use the word thug in that context again,” said Rivera on Fox News’ Fox & Friends.

http://thegrio.com/2014/01/31/geraldo-rivera-retracts-use-of-word-thug-to-describe-richard-sherman/

I guess this word is being used as a "dog whistle" in some cases.

ON EDIT: I see that you drastically edited your response. The post I was replying to was the original version, which was:

2. For white guys with 4.2 averages in high school and 3.9 at Stanford? n/t

[pnwmom]

7. Thank you for thinking this over and seeing the other side. n/t

[Scootaloo]

4. Zimmerman also stalked, assaulted, and murdered a 17 year old boy.

Kind of, you know, a big fucking difference between him and Richard Sherman.

Are you still carrying water for that guy?

[Nye Bevan]

8. My point is that "thug" seems like an apt, descriptive word for someone like Zimmerman.

I don't see any reason for anyone to accuse Sherman of being a thug, but I do now see that some seem to be using it as a "dog whistle".

[Scootaloo]

12. when you see a black man and just decide to call him a "thug,"

knowing nothing about him (or worse, knowing plenty about him and ignoring it) then you are indeed "dog-whistling."

Well, at this point it's just "whistling," I suppose, as everyone but the most tone-deaf can hear it just fine.

[Nye Bevan]

14. Anyone who calls someone a derogatory term based upon their race, as opposed to their behavior,

is unquestionably a racist. And it does seem that folks like Geraldo Rivera were engaging in racism in applying the term "thug" to Sherman when he had done nothing to justify that term being used.

[hfojvt]

51. I think he started to get that label after this

That's behaviour, isn't it?

True, he had just made a winning play and was pumped up, but perhaps that could be contrasted with what Isaac Bruce said after making THIS winning play in the Superbowl.

Did he trash talk? Did he say "I am the best wide receiver in the game?" Did he talk about how if the cornerback opened his mouth about him, he was gonna shut it?

Well, I cannot find the interview, but I remember he was very humble, gave the praise and credit to God (which I kinda roll my eyes at).

But Sherman is not called a thug because he's black, he's called a thug for the things he says and the way he says them - his behaviour gets him the label.

He has a free speech right to run his mouth all he wants, but other people have a right to dislike him for running his mouth too.

[Nye Bevan]

52. I guess the question is, would a white player who engaged in such trash-talking be labeled a "thug"?

If not, there is probably at least some racism going on.

[hfojvt]

54. it's hard for me to think of any examples

and google is not helping.

Point is that the dude seemed to engage in some thuggish behaviour and then wants to cry racism when he is called names because of the way he acted. Like the name had NOTHING to do with the way he acted.

I think there is some bullsh*t going on.

[woolldog]

61. There's nothing "thuggish" in that behavior.

If you think trash talking is "thuggish" then consider yourself lucky.

[hfojvt]

62. nothing?

Thuggish being an adjective it can be used to describe various types of behaviour.
Speech
attitude
actions

The dictionary defines thug pretty strictly - "vicious ruffian, robber, or murderer"

but then also defines hoodlum as 2. a thug, or 3. a rowdy, destructive child or adolescent.

So mere "rowdiness" would tend to make somebody a hoodlum and also thereby a thug.

And thus the volume and forcefulness of that rant would lean towards thuggish, to say nothing of the content.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. Yeah, that was fucked up.

Seriously. What were you thinking?

[Nye Bevan]

18. My point is that the word "thug" is perfect to describe someone like George Zimmerman,

and indeed, many on DU have used this word in that (non-racist) context. It is a pity that some have been adopting this word as a racist "dog whistle".

[AtheistCrusader]

19. I replied before reading the rest of the subthread.

Wasn't looking good there at first, but I see what you were getting at. Sorry.

[7962]

27. Yes, and for anyone. Hernandez of the Patriots was called a thug and it seems he is one.

A "thug" is a violent person, to most of us. Regardless of what color they are. I've called Richie Incognito a thug here on DU and he's as white as anyone.

[PSPS]

3. He's right about that. "Thug" is the most commonly used dog whistle for "ni**er."

[Vattel]

5. I am glad he spoke out on this. "Thug" needn't be a racist term, but it often is.

[Igel]

40. That's intolerable for some people.

It's easier when things always are or aren't racist. Helping the perception is that some things stand out more when we hear them and stick in our memory longer. You don't remember what you don't notice and there's a strong tendency to think that what we notice and know is all there is to notice and know.


There are people I currently might use the word "thug" for. (At the same time, I might not--it's not like that's the only word I have that applies and means about the same thing, and "thug" doesn't just have a meaning but a range of styles and contexts you use it in.)

I'm not sure any of them are black. The ones that come to mind are Latino and white. Mostly Latino. Then again, most of the people I run into every day are white and Latino, and there's a skew as far as SES goes.

[kwassa]

9. Richard Sherman is not a Suge Knight.

Suge Knight is someone I would define as a thug.

[Blue_In_AK]

10. I really like that guy.

And I hope Seattle wins.

[AgingAmerican]

60. Yep

He is a monster on the field and a really solid guy off the field. That's how it should be.

[unionthug777]

11. hmmmmmmmm.....

[Recursion]

13. "Thug" was a piece of racist propaganda from the East India Company

That used salacious stories of kidnapping, robbery, rape, and murder from an alleged caste of Indian thieves as an excuse to continue their brutal and exploitative rule of India in the 19th century.

Its use since then hasn't been much better.

[Igel]

41. When it was "thuggee".

The word never really had that meaning on this side of the Atlantic, and quickly lost that meaning when it was nativized in Britain.

Etymological fallacy.

[Recursion]

45. No, you should come to India some time. It was used to lynch thousands of Indians

It's a corporate-derived ethnic slur that was used to murder thousands of people. It should be retired.

[ND-Dem]

43. alleged? caste?

they weren't a caste, and they weren't merely 'alleged'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuggee

[Recursion]

44. Sorry, I was using "caste" in the broadest sense

It was a deliberate slur used for lynching by the East India Company.

[TreasonousBastard]

15. When did this start? I've always associated "thug" with...

gangsters. Being in NY, it was mainly Irish and Italian ones. It was mildly ethnic, (and often preceded by "union&quot but it was never racial.

I hate code words and dog whistles, too, but I can't be the only one pissed by the redefinition of common words for no reason other than to foster outrage.

[Nye Bevan]

17. It is a shame to lose a good, descriptive word,

just because some racists have started using it as a "dog whistle" term. "Thug" is concise, descriptive, and a perfect term for someone like George Zimmerman.

[pnwmom]

20. The issue isn't with the word "thug" in general. It's that when it is used to describe

young black men -- who are not thuggish at all -- it is often a substitute for calling them something worse.

[FrodosPet]

46. "Bullies" and "assholes" are the perfect words for violent people of any ancestry

These words are universally understood, non-racial and non-gendered based.

[pnwmom]

57. Sherman isn't a violent person, though I wouldn't want to run into him on the football field. n/t

[pnwmom]

22. The word hasn't been redefined to foster outrage. It means the same thing it always has.

But to apply it to young men like Richard Sherman is a sign of racism -- because there is nothing criminal or thuggish about him. If he were a young white 3.9 graduate of Stanford, he would be called a hero and a role model, not a thug.

[TreasonousBastard]

34. I agree that it's ridiculous to apply it to Sherman...

but what's worse, and what upsets me, is that now that it's seen as a code word, calling, say, Suge Knight, a thug will be seen as racist and change the direction of the conversation.

[pnwmom]

35. It isn't just "seen" as a code word. It is being USED as a code word.

Why else would someone use it to describe someone like Richard Sherman? The racists are playing the game. They know they can't get away with calling him the N word, so they use the "thug" word instead.

[TreasonousBastard]

37. And I don't think we should let them...

there's some reaction against the use of it in this thread, but there should be should be more of it in the mainstream.

Don't let the racists hijack the language.

[pnwmom]

39. Too late. We can't muzzle them; all we can do is speak out against them. n/t

[7962]

28. My thoughts exactly. I forgot about "union thugs". Perfect example. nt

[Jamaal510]

21. This was from

last year, but I definitely saw his point. When a black dude wears something like a fitted cap or a hoody in public, he usually gets portrayed as a thug by the police and the Internet warriors. When it's somebody non-black, it's a different story.

[pnwmom]

23. And it is another sign of how threatened many white people feel by young black men.

Whether they are football players from Stanford or 12 year olds playing with toy guns.

[mountain grammy]

24. Good for Richard Sherman, I'm glad he spoke out on this.

He's a great player and seems to be a good man.

[Kalidurga]

25. He sounds like a role model not a thug...

not that I think sports people are in general role models, but anyone with that GPA should be emulated not put down.

[mythology]

26. I don't take my cues from people like Richard Sherman

Sherman runs his mouth, got busted for performance enhancing drugs (his first excuse was that somebody crushed a pill in his drink before managing to skate on a technicality) and insults other players and everybody who disagrees with him.

He first used this thug defense to deflect negative attention after a brash, insulting and self-aggrandizing interview. Yes, some responses he got were openly racist. But to brush aside any criticism as racist is just stupid. Sherman blatantly lied about his actions and intentions toward the opposing player in an article and yet expects me to believe that Sherman is a victim?

And nothing says legitimate 3.9 gpa at Stanford like a 990 SAT score. It's pretty common for athletes to get unearned grades even at otherwise prestigious universities like the University of North Carolina

https://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrecruiting/footbal%20l/recruiting/player-Richard-Sherman-30260

[7962]

29. Wow, i never knew about the PED issue.

I cant root for the Seahawks because M. Lynch is such a pretentious asshole.

[GummyBearz]

55. FWIW, I didn't get pretentious from Lynch

At least not from his last media week interview, where he said more than "i'm here not to get fined".

What I saw, was someone who was extremely nervous at public speaking (hey, most people are), and who also either has a speech impediment or a very very low level of literacy, and doesn't want to be made fun of for it.

The mannerisms gave me the "frightened of public speaking" part. And his constant repeating something along the lines of "ya'll can go say and make up whatever you want to make up. 'cus I don't give ya'll enough to put out on me. But I come to ya'll event and ya'll shove cameras and microphone down my throat. But ya'll mad at me, and if ya ain't mad at me, what ya'll here for?"

To me, with all the broken english and extreme defensiveness (thinking everyone is mad at him just because they went to the media event)... I formed the opinion he is truly scared to give a full interview because his speech issues may become a target of comedy, and he doesn't want to be made fun of.

[7962]

56. You give him too much credit. Here's an interview where he had no problem speaking.

He sounds like most everyone else in the league. As a matter of fact, he sounds better than many of them. He just doesnt want to follow the rules
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-gameday/0ap3000000439544/Beast-Mode-opens-up

[GummyBearz]

58. Thanks

Thanks, I hadn't seen that. It does shed some more light on this controversy for me.

[eissa]

30. Sherman is not a thug

He's an asshole. And going to an Ivy League university doesn't give him, or anyone, a free pass to be an obnoxious dick.

[MrModerate]

32. He may well be . . .

He's certainly arrogant and brutal, which is critical to being successful in his chosen career.

But Stanford is not in the Ivy League.

[pnwmom]

36. The people who call him a thug are racists.

They wouldn't be calling him that if he were a high-achieving, smart-mouthed white guy.

[MrModerate]

31. The people calling Sherman "a thug" probably don't use the word "oxymoron . . ."

And have never heard of Stanford.

[RandySF]

33. I've even called white Republicans "thugs".

But if Sherman wants to play that game, I'll just call him an asshole.

[pnwmom]

38. Some white Republicans may be thugs. But Richard Sherman isn't. n/t

[11 Bravo]

42. I just call him a mouthy asshole. Which he would still be ...

even if he was green.

[bigwillq]

47. Sherman is not a thug, imo.

I use the word thug to describe people of all races. If you're a thug, you're a thug, regardless of race.

[FLPanhandle]

48. I will call anyone a thug, white or black

But they must first earn the label by their behavior, not their skin color.

There are plenty of thugs out there of all hues, and plenty of good people out there of all hues.

[madokie]

49. Richard Sherman is why I'll be pulling for the 'hawks

he and Russell Wilson. I like both of them

[KingCharlemagne]

50. I don't follow professional sports much, but Sherman reminds me of Paul Robeson. - nt

[kydo]

53. Richard Sherman is one of my fav players

Probably one of the smartest guys in football too. He is not a thug. And he is right on why people have labeled him a thug.

I am torn on the super bowl. I love the hawks. I was a Russell Wilson fan while he was still at Wisconsin. He has been my fav player in the NFL since he was drafted. The Hawks are exciting.

I also like the Pats. There was a time I really liked them. Then they started winning. That was fun. Then they started winning all the time and it got boring. So I would have been labeled a hater then and I was. I didn't really care for Brady at first. But after he got married, he changed and for the better. His wife is the best thing to happen to him. I like Brady a lot more these days. And I really would like to see him get one more SB victory.

I like Gronk. I have always respected Bill Belichick. He is probably one the greatest coaches. Yes he had that spy gate thing. But I think he is one of the best coaches ever.

With that all said I am still picking Seattle to win. (Seattle 27 NE 24 in OT) This match up, at least on paper should be one of the best match ups in SB history. And it should be a great game. In an odd way I wish both could win. But there can only one winner.

As a side note. In the 10 playoff games this year, I am 10 and 0. That does not mean my SB pick is right. This year really is a "pick'em". I just want a good game.

[Paladin]

59. I agree with Sherman on this.

Way too much daily substantiation of how "thug" is now used by racists, to believe otherwise.....

[McCamy Taylor]

63. Yes, using a slur for "criminal" for someone who is a member of a minority is name calling.

Because it is not intended to point out any criminal activity, it is intended to point out the individuals membership in a group that is unfairly condemned by society for being "criminal."

Exact same thing as calling a woman a "whore". When we do that, we are seldom talking about her profession.