All the talking heads seem to agree that Greece will be forced to return

[hedgehog]

to austerity.

Maybe.

This could be Czechoslovakia 1968, or Germany1989. Don't forget, Germany 1989 led to the Soviet Union, 1991. This may be the first step to bringing down a financial system that supports the 1% and strangles the rest of us.

[bemildred]

1. It is a useful heuristic these days that the talking heads are always wrong.

I mean when was the last time what they said had any relation real or intended with the news?

[hack89]

2. They certainly cannot return to their old spending habits anytime soon

if they can fix their tax system quickly then they would have a lot more lee way. Right now they don't have much room to maneuver even if they were to default.

[hedgehog]

3. BTW - has anyone seen this story?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2012/09/12/does-germany-really-owe-greece-a-etrillion-in-war-reparations-probably-not-no/


Forbes thinks the Greeks are barking up the wrong tree, but the Greeks don't think so.

[FLPanhandle]

4. The Greeks are just trying to improve their bargaining position

It's not a real request.

[PoliticAverse]

6. Indeed much of what is being proposed is an 'initial bargaining position'.n/t

Last edited Tue Feb 10, 2015, 11:26 AM - Edit history (1)

[pampango]

5. The Greek prime minister still seems to be optimistic.

Greek prime minister vows to strike deal to stay inside eurozone

The Greek prime minister, Alexis Tsipras, has vowed to strike a deal to stay inside the eurozone despite Athens’ refusal to implement the European Union’s austerity measures and calls by his radical left-led government for a bigger rescue package. Tsipras said on Monday he was optimistic about reaching a compromise with Brussels on renegotiating Greece’s massive international bailout.

“There is a common desire to resolve this crisis. I am optimistic that we will reach a compromise with our European partners,” he said after meeting the Austrian chancellor, Werner Faymann, in Vienna.

On Monday, Tsipras said there was nothing to fear from renegotiating a deal after pledges by his government to crackdown on tax evasion and bring public finances further into balance.

He said: “Throughout its history the EU has had its ups and downs, and we have always found a solution. I don’t see any reason why we would not be able to reach an accord.”

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/feb/09/greek-prime-minister-deal-stay-eurozone-alexis-tsipras-bailout-greece

[randome]

7. No, it's Greece 2015.

The tell that they'd bitten off more than they could chew was when they said they could go it alone...and then asked Germany for hundreds of billions of dollars.
[hr][font color="blue"][center]Aspire to inspire.[/center][/font][hr]

[Javaman]

8. perhaps if Greece gets their people to pay their taxes or stop using creative accounting.

then maybe they can get their act together and tell the EU to fuck off.

Greek Debt Crisis: How Goldman Sachs Helped Greece to Mask its True Debt

http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/greek-debt-crisis-how-goldman-sachs-helped-greece-to-mask-its-true-debt-a-676634.html

How 'magic' made Greek debt disappear before it joined the euro

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-16834815

How Greek tax evasion helped sink the global economy

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/07/09/how-greek-tax-evasion-sunk-the-global-economy/

Two Out of Three Greeks Commits Tax Evasion

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2014/10/12/two-out-of-three-greeks-commits-tax-evasion/

[stevenleser]

9. Yes. I support Syriza or whoever else moving Greece away from austerity. But in doing so, they have

to have a plan for where the money is going to come from to spend their way out of their economic issues.

I've had knockdown dragout arguments here with people who refuse to acknowledge that the way governments obtain money to spend is fairly limited. In fact limited to three major methods, tax it, borrow it, or print it.

So in moving away from austerity, which I think is the right move, you have to have a plan for where you are going to get the money. For countries who are already in distress, printing more money is pretty risky. That leaves taxing it and borrowing it.

The least destructive method for Greece would be to tax it given that their population in general is actually pretty well off. More well off than Germany's population in terms of individual wealth on average. Of course, as you noted, the population seems pretty adept at avoiding paying their taxes.

[hunter]

10. It sounds as if Greeks are not quite so dim as U.S.A. people.

They don't want to pay into a government of corrupt politicians, bankers, and "capitalists."

Of course Greece's uber-wealthy class is just like ours, not paying taxes because they are sociopaths and have manipulated the political system in ways that allow them to hide most of their wealth and income from the tax man.

The U.S.A. middle and lower classes have been squeezed hard by programs of austerity too, but we don't seem to be smart enough to vote out the rotten politicians and their corrupt banker and corporate friends. Some of the biggest tax avoiding slimeballs in the U.S.A., people like Mitt Romney, are even so shameless as to run for President.

[azmom]

11. Yanis Varoufakis is exposing the global cartel

For what they are, predatory monsters. They have bled Greece long enough. What the new government wants is some relief in order to get the economy going again. Greece needs to push them to the brink and push them over the cliff if need be. Greece is in the power position.

[azmom]

12. Greece's Varoufakis becomes unlikely heartthrob in Germany

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/02/09/us-eurozone-greece-varoufakis-germany-idUSKBN0LD1RI20150209