Really ?? 20,000 foreign fighters flock to Syria, Iraq to join Islamic State

[Rhinodawg]

Foreign fighters are streaming into Syria and Iraq in unprecedented numbers to join the Islamic State or other extremist groups, including at least 3,400 from Western nations among 20,000 from around the world, U.S. intelligence officials say in an updated estimate of a top terrorism concern.

Intelligence agencies now believe that as many as 150 Americans have tried and some have succeeded in reaching in the Syrian war zone, officials told the House Homeland Security Committee in testimony prepared for delivery on Wednesday. Some of those Americans were arrested en route, some died in the area and a small number are still fighting with extremists.

The testimony and other data were obtained Tuesday by The Associated Press.

Nick Rasmussen, chief of the National Counterterrorism Center, said the rate of foreign fighter travel to Syria is without precedent, far exceeding the rate of foreigners who went to wage jihad in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Yemen or Somalia at any other point in the past 20 years.

U.S. officials fear that some of the foreign fighters will return undetected to their homes in Europe or the U.S. to mount terrorist attacks. At least one of the men responsible for the attack on a satirical magazine in Paris had spent time with Islamic extremists in Yemen.

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/02/20000_foreign_fighters_flock_t.html

[Fred Sanders]

1. Cannon fodder, not fighters, even if the numbers are believed. These "fighters" better bring cash.

[cwydro]

2. Yup.

I agree.

[JonLP24]

12. ISIS actually pays a fairly decent monthly wage

for fighters. It depends on where they're coming from. Many foreign recruits come from Kosovo & Tunisia.

[Fred Sanders]

13. They are all from the land of "I am a loser and want something something". Loser cannon fodder.

[JonLP24]

14. I'm not too familiar with Tunisia

but Kosovo is one of the poorest countries in the world and no opportunities is their reality. Not to mention it remains very divided over there.

[Fred Sanders]

15. Sure, riches with the terrorists....they were not 'fighters before and not magically 'fighters' later...propaganda.

[JonLP24]

16. Not riches, just an economic opportunity

I've read enough reports to believe IS does indeed have foreign recruits. Tunisia and Kosovo are two of the leading countries as to where recruits are coming from. Reports indicate it is about $1000 month. IS has received funding (and likely still does) receive funding from Arabian Peninsula wealthy investors.

On the ISIS report from the reporter imbedded with the Islamic State, one of the fighters said to the camera he is from Tunisia.

[Fred Sanders]

17. ISIL lies.

[JonLP24]

18. With the exception of the individual claiming he is from Tunisia

None of my other claims comes from ISIS.

[Glassunion]

22. Yeah, but their dental plan sucks.

Not to mention no pension, or family leave. No thanks.

[benz380]

40. But do they have IsisCare? n/t

[Rhinodawg]

3. I'd like to see those 150 Americans come back...

try to behead or murder or kill other Americans.

They wont have the guts to do it.

[mwrguy]

28. If they have the guts to travel across the world to fight

then they probably have plenty of guts for any number of other things.

[greytdemocrat]

47. I'd prefer

They have no "guts" at all. Bullets are good for that.

[Comrade Grumpy]

4. There's apparently a lot of young men in this world with nothing better to do.

They're showing up in the Ukraine, too, although for different reasons. I just saw an 18-year-old enlistee in the rebel forces, said he grew up nearby in Russia. Now he's going to fight.

[Rhinodawg]

7. Grumpy, you believe this crap?

You think those 150 americans are going to come back and kill or behead other americans?

[Comrade Grumpy]

21. Got me. Depends on how motivated they are, I suppose.

Some of them will get killed over there.

Some of them will stay over there.

Some of them may come back, get jobs as taxi drivers, grow beer bellies, and spend their days telling war stories from their ever-receding glorious youths.

Some of them may have learned some salutary lessons from their experience.

Some of them may be batshit insane enough to come back and try something.

[joshcryer]

23. Mercenaries, basically.

Social media makes recruitment quite easy.

Easiest way to fix this is to go after the funders.

[Comrade Grumpy]

24. It's a sick kind of jobs program.

Maybe more so for locals than the foreign fighters, but even they like to get paid.

I've read about how the fortunes of the various Syrian militia bands rise and fall according to how much access to resources--arms, money--they have.

[joshcryer]

25. I was surprised by the westerners joining, really.

I guess raping and pillaging is attractive to a certain type of people. Still don't get it, especially the women who have tried or succeeded in joining up. Baffling.

And yeah I've seen the recruitment videos, they're top notch, I just don't get it. I can understand a Somali guy signing up with pirates, I can't understand people living in the west, with western luxuries, going to a murderous shithole. (Not talking about people who have a sense of adventure like war reporters or who want to help people they believe needs help, like Doctors without Borders or whatever, of course, they are good people overall. If a bit on the poor side of risk assessment with regards to war reporters.)

[CJCRANE]

43. I stumbled onto a pro-Caliphate group on FB

about two years ago and followed it for a couple of months.

They have several strands to their propaganda. The first one is the humanitarian argument. They portrayed Assad as a tool of the west who was massacring his people. So some of them went over there to help in humanitarian aid and others to fight the Assad regime.

They believe that democracy is a sham and point to the various atrocities committed by the neocons and warmongers to justify this view. So they believe the answer is to replace "man-made laws" with "God-given laws". Hence the "Khilafa", their version of the promised land.

They believe that jihad is an obligation and that all believers should join them. So anyone who doesn't join them is against them. (So they are against pretty much everyone else).

They have a massive social media reach where they blast these ideas to (I assume) millions of people. I saw thousands on the group I found. I think they also have thousands of sockpuppets so it seems that there are more of them and this convinces others that they are a strong movement.

I'd guess that most of their followers are young, ignorant, gullible, naive people because the version of history, politics and religion they pushed was very simple and very distorted (and only people who didn't know much about anything could believe it).

[joshcryer]

45. It belies belief, though.

To go from using an iPhone, Facebook, having electricity, clean running water, to raping and pillaging. Even the "young, ignorant, gullible, naive" explanation makes no fucking sense to me. How many young women went over there to, themselves, get raped and abused? Is western society, as a whole, that uneducated and ignorant and naive? It is insane.

[CJCRANE]

50. It's a tiny fraction of 1%. It's less than than the percentage of psychopaths in society.

It's sheer probability that if you solicit enough people you'll get takers. Just like the so-called "Nigerian email scam". Have you ever replied to one of those emails? Probably not, but there are people who make a living from that by emailing hundreds of thousands of people every day.

There are also people who go out to fight ISIS (which is more understandable) and people who go out to fight on both sides of the Ukrainian conflict.

[leftynyc]

46. Not really baffling

Look at all the notorious murderers in prison - they get fan mail, have relationships and marry while in prison. For women with low self esteem, those who grew up abused or ignored - their minds don't work like "normal" women.

[joshcryer]

48. Not to the tune of thousands.

It's not like ISIS has hundreds of assholes people would want to hook up with. For every death row inmate or lifer that gets an admirer or two, ISIS appears to be recruiting hundreds. Even if the number is closer to 500 or 1000, it's still absolutely mind boggling. We know for a fact it's in the 100s. We know how high quality their propaganda videos are (clearly someone with a video editing background). I just can't get there. I don't know how a human being can go from using Sony Vegas Pro to editing beheading or burning videos for the "cause."

[leftynyc]

49. Disagree

You may be thinking about AMERICAN women but add the low self esteem and abuse with poverty and little expectation for life to get better and this is what you get. They finally have a place where they feel they "belong". It's a sickness and it's more prevalent than you think.

[CJCRANE]

51. I'm not sure it's statistically significant (see my post above). I also think there may be some NLP

techniques involved in the propaganda and training.

Bear in mind that these people are actively recruited by ISIS, which has the social media savvy equivalent to a billion dollar corporation. Just google ISIS and social media and you'll see plenty of mainstream articles about it.

[bigtree]

5. defections from al-Qaeda right at the start of the deployments

...this isn't a secret to the intelligence sources, either. They always think they can overcome the odds, but they end up spawning more individuals bent on violence against our troops, out interests, or our allies than they're able to put down.

[Avalux]

6. And we all know the Associated Press operates with the utmost journalistic integrity.

I don't believe anything we're told by corporate press anymore.

[Rhinodawg]

8. Exactly....

I 'll only believe it when I see it.

[snooper2]

9. I think if you try to fly to Syria you may get flagged in some database

just FYI

[Rhinodawg]

10. Its just a MIC scare tactic.

Supposedly those 150 americans are being trained to come back and kill Amerikkkans.

No one believes that.....unless there are dead bodies in the streets , then I might believe it.

[bigtree]

11. if you believe the administration

Last edited Thu Feb 12, 2015, 07:29 AM - Edit history (1)

Spy Agencies Say al-Qaeda-Associated Combatants Defecting to ISIS as American Launch Strikes in Iraq

US intel sees defections from AQ affiliates as fighters flock to ISIS. Q whether strikes will "increase the spigot" …
Fighters abandoning al-Qaeda affiliates to join Islamic State, U.S. officials say

U.S. spy agencies have begun to see groups of fighters abandoning al-Qaeda affiliates in Yemen and Africa to join the rival Islamist organization that has seized territory in Iraq and Syria and been targeted in American airstrikes, U.S. officials said.

The movements are seen by U.S. counterterrorism analysts as a worrisome indication of the expanding appeal of a group known as the Islamic State that has overwhelmed military forces in the region and may now see itself in direct conflict with the United States.

. . . The launching of U.S. airstrikes has raised new questions, including whether the bombings will hurt the Islamic State’s ability to draw recruits or elevate its status among jihadists. “Does that increase the spigot or close it?” said a senior U.S. counterterrorism official, who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity and noted that U.S. military operations in Afghanistan and elsewhere have crippled al-Qaeda but also served as rallying cries against the United States.

Longer-term, U.S. officials expressed concern that the Islamic State, which so far has been focused predominantly on its goal of reestablishing an Islamic caliphate, may now place greater emphasis on carrying out attacks against the United States and its allies.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fighters-abandoning-al-qaeda-affiliates-to-join-islamic-state-us-officials-say/2014/08/09/c5321d10-1f08-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html?tid=HP_lede


2014: How foreign fighters are swelling ISIS ranks in startling numbers

On Thursday, the CIA made a startling announcement: The number of people fighting for ISIS may be more than three times the previous estimates.

Analysts and U.S. officials initially estimated there were as many as 10,000 fighters, including those freed from prisons by ISIS and Sunni loyalists who joined the fight as the group advanced across Iraq.

But now ISIS, which calls itself the Islamic State, can "muster between 20,000 and 31,500 fighters across Iraq and Syria," a CIA spokesman told CNN on Thursday.

"This new total reflects an increase in members because of stronger recruitment since June following battlefield successes and the declaration of a caliphate, greater battlefield activity and additional intelligence," the spokesman said.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/12/world/meast/isis-numbers/index.html

[CJCRANE]

26. The OP is using reverse psychology.

The previous tactic of using outright fearmongering was getting too obvious.

[bigtree]

30. I actually thought Avalux made that post

...oh, well. It was a hit and run to work for me.

What is unmistakable, for whatever reason, our military forces in these countries provide just the target combatants are looking for. Doubtful they believe they can attack U.S. territory. Our troops are convenient target of opportunity for them.

[Ramses]

33. +100000

You should make this an OP here

[OnlinePoker]

20. So what is your top source for unbiased news?

Not slamming...I'm curious.

[GummyBearz]

19. Lots of target practice for drones I guess

*pew* *pew*, *boom*, and then its game over on someone's computer screen half a world away

[Yorktown]

27. Demographics + cultist religion = Armageddon

There are 1.6 Bn muslims. 60% below 30 years old. That's millions of young guys.

Millions of young guys with a literalist ideology + high unemployment at home.

While petro-monachies pump fresh cash to finance the 'romance' of jihad.

Why should anyone be surprised such 'romance' can recruit so many?

[mwrguy]

29. "Be all that you can be."

Maybe they should sponsor a NASCAR race.

[CJCRANE]

31. That's 0.00125%

Last edited Thu Feb 12, 2015, 08:24 AM - Edit history (1)

At this point they're just a collection of petty criminals turned psychopaths.

I'd be interested to know who the main financiers are and if Baghadi is real or a fictional character (as was reported in the NYT in 2007).

[Yorktown]

32. Closer to 1%

A Pew poll did a very good breakdown of world muslims a few years ago.

7% are the hard liners. Literal Islam + fear of the West.
43% are the supporting hard plurality. Literal Islam, support Sharia Law
50% are the normal life folks, taking a bet on the afterlife, not too hot on Sharia.

One third of muslims are of fighting age 18-35 = 500M x 7% = 35M

The recruitment base of the jihadists are those 35M. That's a lot.

[nilesobek]

34. Demographics are informative and factual.

Thanks for the stats. There is an inexhaustible supply of people ready to die for their religion.

[Yorktown]

35. Demographics are informative and factual.

I recently stumbled on the fact that half of the 500M Christians in black Africa actually believe Jesus will come back within their own lifetimes.

Who needs Comedy Central when we have RL statistics?

[nilesobek]

52. The stuff writes itself and is stranger than fiction.

Just put the right circumstances together, spin the top and watch it go.

[CJCRANE]

36. 1% of the world population are psychopaths. Give anyone a few billion dollars

unrestricted access to social media and complicit governments to train, supply weapons and open their borders and you could recruit a mercenary army of just about any demographic.

[Yorktown]

37. Not true. You don't have 7% extremists + 43% supporters in the West.

Or show me polls that would back an extravagant claim like that.

To make a long story short, the doctrine of Islam (+poverty) is creating monsters.

The Saudi billions are just enabling them, not creating them.

People ready to blow themselves don't do it for cash, they do it for 72 virgins.

[CJCRANE]

38. There has been a 500% increase in terrorism in this century.

The neocons' actions and our oil buddies support is creating extremists.

We supported and grew the muslim fundies to fight the commies back in the 80s.

Before that the extreme ideologies were based on communism, maoism, marxism, fascism, nationalism etc.

[Yorktown]

39. Are you forgetting why the Marines sing about the shores of Tripoli?

The muslim leaders of North Africa refused to stop attacking US ships in the Meditterranean.

Despite having been asked nicely. They answered the Quran gave them a right to ransack infidels.

I'm not talking terrorism. Like Chomsky said, terrorism is just a propaganda word.

ISIS are not terrorists. They are soldiers fighting for a crazed ideology, Islam.

And this can't be changed unless and until Islam evolves into allowing criticism of the Quran.

[CJCRANE]

41. You're conflating various things and times and seem to have forgotten the 20th century.

As for the ISIS freaks, they're just a bunch of brainwashed petty criminals and psychos.

Cut the funding and they'll go back to being a fringe. We can choose to do that or we can choose to support and grow extremism.

[Yorktown]

42. Good luck with that

As for the ISIS freaks, they're just a bunch of brainwashed petty criminals and psychos.
Cut the funding and they'll go back to being a fringe.

I would love you to be right. But I don't think you are.

You seem to vastly underestimate the nefarious power of ideologies supported by a youth bulge.

You've got tens of millions of youth raised in a cultish ideology who have no jobs.

Cut the Saudi/UAE cash, they would still be flying to Iraq to wage jihad.

[CJCRANE]

44. How and why would they fly to Iraq? That doesn't make logical sense.

This was triggered by the toppling of Gadaffi and supporting the Syrian rebels, coupled with massive funding and social media reach.

[randome]

53. Logic? LOGIC?

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"Everybody is just on their feet screaming 'Kill Kill Kill'! This is hockey Conservative values!"[/center][/font][hr]