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MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 01:56 AM Mar 2015

Equal Justice for Petraeus and Snowden?

The sweetheart deal the Justice Department gave to former CIA Director David Petraeus for leaking top secret information compared to the stiff jail sentences other low-level leakers have received under the Obama administration has led to renewed calls for leniency for NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden. And no one makes the case better than famed whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg.

Ellsberg, the first person ever charged under the Espionage Act or any other statute for leaking the Pentagon Papers to Congress and 17 newspapers, told me on Thursday: “The factual charges against [Edward Snowden] are not more serious, as violations of the classification regulations and non-disclosure agreements, than those Petraeus has admitted to, which are actually quite spectacular.”

Equal Justice for Petraeus and Snowden?
March 6, 2015

The Justice Department’s decision to let ex-CIA Director Petraeus off with a hand slap for giving his mistress highly sensitive secrets raises questions about the harsh punishments meted out to lower-level leakers/truth-tellers — and the threat of a long prison term for NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden, writes Trevor Timm.

By Trevor Timm https://consortiumnews.com/2015/03/06/equal-justice-for-petraeus-and-snowden/


Is it me, or can't people distinguish what our government will do to a person's whistle blowing after discovery of unlawful spying programs versus a decorated general who can't keep it in his pants providing his girlfriend top secret information?

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Equal Justice for Petraeus and Snowden? (Original Post) MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 OP
I'm still wondering why the OTHER general...you know the one that lied to Congress... Rex Mar 2015 #1
Yes... MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #3
The difference is they LIKE Petraeus' politics and they DON'T like Snowden's. Smarmie Doofus Mar 2015 #2
precedent, pardoned by Bill Clinton grasswire Mar 2015 #4
I wonder if Deutch lied to the FBI, though, the way Petraeus did? TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #6
Petraeus was arrogant, stupid, and careless, thought with his pecker and his pecker TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #5
If Snowden knew he would get a sentence like that of Petraeus would he have gone to Russia? Fumesucker Mar 2015 #7
Again, look at the motive or intent. It's pretty obvious Petraeus's personal TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #12
So, you get to produce your own judgement ahead of any forthcoming trial? MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #18
You think they accessed and disseminated government secrets and documents TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #20
Answer the question... MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #22
What question? Manning's already in jail, serving his sentence. TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #23
Here - I'll repeat it for your short term memory deficit... MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #24
Attempting to call yourself a whistleblower automatically suggests intent TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #25
So, if you find that something is wrong, your methods automatically announces your own criminality.. MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #26
It's all in how you do it. And what you do after you do it. TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #28
Fascinating…. MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #29
what's with your term "Special Ed"? grasswire Mar 2015 #8
It connotes a negative attitude toward Snowden. TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #13
Which means anything about special education is negative, too. MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #14
right grasswire Mar 2015 #16
Here, just for you, I will call him Fast Eddie. But that's already my name for Ed Rendell, TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #17
You didn't post your slur just for grasswire ... MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #19
LOL. I do think Ed's pretty special, but not in a remedial-class way. TwilightGardener Mar 2015 #21
"Special Ed"? MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #9
Snowden did not 'run off to Russia'. The US Government removed his passport after Hong Kong sabrina 1 Mar 2015 #27
is Unintentional Manslaughter more serious than First Degree Murder? KittyWampus Mar 2015 #10
Not sure what you meant by that, KittyWampus... MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #11
And, judging from your silence... MrMickeysMom Mar 2015 #30
I should like to be able to love my country and still love justice. Albert Camus Tierra_y_Libertad Mar 2015 #15
 

Rex

(65,616 posts)
1. I'm still wondering why the OTHER general...you know the one that lied to Congress...
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 01:59 AM
Mar 2015

What was his name? General Crapper...er Clapper? General Clap-on!?

THAT'S HIS NAME! GENERAL CLAP-ON!

Yeah generals get a free pass...so do admirals named Poindexter...and a few Colonels...

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
3. Yes...
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 02:10 AM
Mar 2015

Citizen Four had good moments of Clapper and his minion doing what they did so well. Lie.

I personally do not like to support the salaries of these folks, but I'd rather support them behind bars.

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
4. precedent, pardoned by Bill Clinton
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 02:40 AM
Mar 2015
A third CIA director provides an even more direct precedent to the Petraeus case: after he resigned as director in 1996, John M Deutch was found to have stored on his uncleared personal home computer – which he used for internet access – information as sensitive as Petraeus’s, including covert agent identities. He was given misdemeanor plea bargain exactly like Petraeus’s, which he was about to sign when he was preemptively pardoned by President Clinton.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
5. Petraeus was arrogant, stupid, and careless, thought with his pecker and his pecker
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 03:24 AM
Mar 2015

gave him bad advice--he deserves a harsher punishment. But I doubt he joined the military or took the job at CIA for the sole intent of exposing government secrets and running off to Russia with them, unlike Fast Eddie. Intent/motive matter in legal stuff like this.

Fumesucker

(45,851 posts)
7. If Snowden knew he would get a sentence like that of Petraeus would he have gone to Russia?
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 06:00 AM
Mar 2015

Or was he expecting to get a sentence more like that of Manning and Kiriakou?

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
12. Again, look at the motive or intent. It's pretty obvious Petraeus's personal
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 12:44 PM
Mar 2015

failings were the cause of his playing fast and loose with his binders of intel, and not the desire to have those binders exposed or given to other countries. Manning and Snowden had other reasons for what they did--but they appear to have wanted to make their accessed intel public, and did so knowingly and deliberately. Kiriakou is kind of in-between, IMO, since his motives were related to the torture program, if I understand correctly. He's the closest to a real whistleblower.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
18. So, you get to produce your own judgement ahead of any forthcoming trial?
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 03:55 PM
Mar 2015
"Manning and Snowden had other reasons for what they did--but they appear to have wanted to make their accessed intel public, and did so knowingly and deliberately."


From what star chamber did you get THIS?

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
20. You think they accessed and disseminated government secrets and documents
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 03:59 PM
Mar 2015

purely by accident? Or because their hot girlfriend nagged them?

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
22. Answer the question...
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 04:03 PM
Mar 2015

… and while you're at it, keep making those crazy little emoticons, in keeping with where this is all coming from.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
23. What question? Manning's already in jail, serving his sentence.
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 04:05 PM
Mar 2015

Snowden speaks freely about his activities. He can't bring his cowardly traitor ass back to America, because he's a chickenshit.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
24. Here - I'll repeat it for your short term memory deficit...
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 04:15 PM
Mar 2015
Manning and Snowden had other reasons for what they did--but they appear to have wanted to make their accessed intel public, and did so knowingly and deliberately.


What are the reasons? "They appear to have wanted" needs further explanation, if you're going to accuse someone of wanting to do so knowingly and deliberately.

You seem to have a lot of "because (he's) a chickens shit." reasons, which really are no reasons at all. Your "reasons" are no more than using ad hominem…

Because you want to call someone names? Do you use logical fallacies to explain your attacks?

I'm waiting for your reasons, okay? Do you understand the question now?

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
25. Attempting to call yourself a whistleblower automatically suggests intent
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 04:24 PM
Mar 2015

to reveal information. Revealing information to media figures and wikileaks shows intent to disseminate info. Petraeus never called himself a whistleblower, and his girlfriend didn't put his classified stuff in her book.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
26. So, if you find that something is wrong, your methods automatically announces your own criminality..
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 04:46 PM
Mar 2015

Maybe you don't understand the difference betweens someone who shares secrets linked with fucking another person and another person who points out criminal activities that affect the conversation you and I are now having.

Or, you should just make it a point to see Citizen Four, which is the actual account of what happened, what was disclosed for what reasons, and how the NSA and our government responded to something that was done purposely because it revealed your and my digital world being owned by the NSA.

Or, would you just continue to blithely state an excuse for the girlfriend who participated in breaking the law being an exception because she was "not putting it in her book"?

grasswire

(50,130 posts)
16. right
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 03:52 PM
Mar 2015

It's a slur, the way it was used. Might as well have called Ed Snowden "retard".

Very offensive.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
17. Here, just for you, I will call him Fast Eddie. But that's already my name for Ed Rendell,
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 03:55 PM
Mar 2015

and it in no way impugns racers and runners.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
19. You didn't post your slur just for grasswire ...
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 03:57 PM
Mar 2015

How disingenuous of you to produce this rubbish at this point.

Have the guts to say, I'm using a slur, or change your post.

TwilightGardener

(46,416 posts)
21. LOL. I do think Ed's pretty special, but not in a remedial-class way.
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 04:01 PM
Mar 2015

He's a traitor. And I did change my post, dearheart.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
9. "Special Ed"?
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 12:29 PM
Mar 2015

Why do I feel like I'm in an elementary school playground all of a sudden?

I doubt that anyone would have made career moves using their expertise with sensitive computerized intelligence because they had the sole intent of participating in an illegally use of that intelligence.

Lots of arrogant and likely stupid people think with their "peckers" every day without spilling top secret intelligence, BTW.

sabrina 1

(62,325 posts)
27. Snowden did not 'run off to Russia'. The US Government removed his passport after Hong Kong
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 05:07 PM
Mar 2015

refused to turn him over to the US. He was traveling to SA, NOT Russia, and it serves no purpose to lie about or to not take the trouble to find out, what the facts of the story are.

When he landed in Moscow, his passport was no longer operable, so it was the US Govt that stranded him in Russia.

Now why would they do that? How convenient for a 'spy' (thanks Rep Rogers, he still hasn't provided the proof he was asked for that ridiculous lie) for his government to get him exactly to where he wanted to go??

Either that was a stupid mistake, or they WANTED him Russia. But HE wanted to go to S. America.

You need to update your information on this story.

He saw wrongdoing in a Government Agency and he became a Whistle Blower.

Having watched over the past decade how this country treats Whistle Blowers, including those who did everything by the book, he sought political asylum outside the country.

It happens all the time when countries abuse the rights of Whistle Blowers and rather than protect them under the law, silence, even torture them (see Chelsea Manning).



MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
11. Not sure what you meant by that, KittyWampus...
Sun Mar 8, 2015, 12:35 PM
Mar 2015

Perhaps you can educate me…. Which one of these committed unintentional manslaughter and which committed murder in the first degree, now?

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