Holy Crap..I’ve Posted a Couple Of Threads Claiming..

[busterbrown]

that Ferguson Shooters might in fact be Right Wing Agitators. Most thought I had little basis and in actuality I didn’t.. Just a gut feeling .. (Made no sense that a Ferguson Protester would be involved in a police shooting.)

Here’s the latest.. St Louis Police Chief does not know for sure that shooter was not aiming at protesters.

Don’t have to explain to you guys what this means.. Too many possibilities..
But here..

http://news.yahoo.com/ferguson-gunman-who-shot-officers-remains-at-large-232234205.html

[lovemydog]

1. I hope they catch the shooter.

I don't have a gut feeling about what type of person it might be, but nothing would surprise me much.

[pinboy3niner]

2. Do I have to explain to you that this means...nothing?

Holy crap! Your latest big news is that the identity of the shooter(s) remains unknown. Well, that obviously reinforces your point.

[busterbrown]

3. But now the police are not sure who the gunman was shooting at..

Did you not read that?

[pinboy3niner]

5. Of COURSE they don't know who was targeted

And your claims about RW agitators are just as ridiculous as all the other speculation in the absence of evidence.

[busterbrown]

10. Let me tell you..

The MSM just could’t wait to put their spin on it...Went right after the protesters. To them it was a retribution attack and not a thing was reported about it being something else..

[pinboy3niner]

11. "Holy crap--I've engaged in unsupported speculation and it hasn't been refuted!"

[busterbrown]

12. Your smiles are so adorable..

Your smart and funny..How do you get those little guys to roll around like that?..

[pinboy3niner]

14. They're unsupported

Just like your theory.

[busterbrown]

16. You realize that I stated in my OP..

that I had no actual basis for my theory..

I guess i’m taking a page from every fucking right wing site on the net..

thought i could do that w/o any criticism..At least here...

Now you’re getting them to smile? What’s next?

[pinboy3niner]

18. I'm getting wingnuts to smile? LOL!

Unlike you, I haven't ascribed blame to either side.

If, as you admit, you had "no basis" for your theory, why even advance it?

If you think the idle speculation of others is ridiculous, better to answer by calling it out than by countering with more unsupported speculation.

[pintobean]

29. Dozens of us, if not hundreds, were called right wingers recently

for not buying into silly speculation.
I smiled.

[NuclearDem]

39. Zing!

[sabrina 1]

56. Yes, but that never made sense. The Protesters had achieved a huge victory that day with the

resignations of the Chief and the City Manager. The LAST thing they needed to do was to use violence which would play right into the hands of the racists out there.

It's taking a long time to catch whoever this was. From the video on the night it happened, it was obvious the shots did not come from where the protesters were. AND several witnesses DID identify the general area from where the shots came from. You can hear them in real time pointing out the house and street.

So there was zero motive for the protesters to do something like this.

And I remember the first responses from the media 'this is going to be a game changer'. Right off the bat they assumed this incident would take the steam out of the victories achieved and cast the protesters in the role of 'violent radicals'.

That was quite a leap considering no one had any idea who the shooter/s were.

[Skittles]

6. if you don't know who the shooter is

how do you know who they are shooting at

[rjsquirrel]

4. OMG!!!!Your fearless speculation

might possibly have been partially right all along, although no one really knows yet.

Stop the presses.

[busterbrown]

7. Oh your so full of snark tonight..

And so funny.. Hope to run into you again...

[rjsquirrel]

51. You're

Not "your"

It's a contraction of "you are."

Has your bold and brilliant prediction panned out yet?

Didn't think so "buster."

[pinboy3niner]

8. :)

Welcome to DU!

[lunatica]

42. Way to make friends as the new person - just attack the old timers.

Enjoy your stay.

[pintobean]

44. rjsquirrel has been here almost a year

and I wouldn't consider that an attack.

[lunatica]

45. A year? Wow!

I'm really, really, really, really impressed! Your judgement about what is an attack just from this thread is ludicrous. But I'm sure you believe you're not attacking.

[pintobean]

46. Picking on newbies has always been cool, right?

Not that squirrel is a really newbie.

[lunatica]

47. Picking on any Idiocrat is cool

[pintobean]

48. Good thing you showed up to reprimand folks for attacks.

[lunatica]

49. You're welcome

[peace13]

53. Maybe so...with the bulk of the posts being ....

...in the past 90 days! I don't care how long someone has been here. It has gotten to the point that people don't want to post because others are so quick to bite and growl. Why so much much anger and snark?

[Fred Sanders]

54. Some folks do not join DU to make friends, they join for other reasons, though never for long.

[stonecutter357]

9. K&R!

[riderinthestorm]

13. I understand your point - that the police are open to considering this shooting

May have been something other than a disgruntled black protester ambushing cops is actually progress.

[busterbrown]

15. MSM has done nothing but push this (your point)

I have no basis for my OP,(and stated that in my piece) just a gut feeling that something was weird about the story.. Including the fact that 1 of the cops was listed as critical and released hrs. later..

[Fred Sanders]

55. CNN has now gone through several speculations, all blaming protestors, all fell apart...so fair turnaround.

[anotojefiremnesuka]

17. I have noticed that and it actually makes the most sense

Ferguson is just one example of what the local police and towns are doing around that region. If the cash cow of busting blacks and fining them to generate a revenue stream is the norm in that area, which it pretty much is, the incidents in Ferguson will have a ripple effect in all the other towns in the region where they will have to stop too.

I see it this way......The function the police have is keep the blacks in check, it is pretty much the prevailing attitude and norm all around that area, in keeping a group down they also have the bonus of generating revenue via harsh fines and having a steady supply of customers for the private prison industry. Since the summer 4 top officials have resigned including the chief of police, the protests were slowly working. Change was happening with out people shooting the cops.

With things slowly changing 2 things are happening, people of color are standing up and finding their voice and the white power structure is losing money and the grip they had on non whites. This is the group that is hurt the most by any change and it behooves them to keep the current power structure in place.

The cops were shot at from over 100 yards away, at night and with a pistol with large moving crowds around, it takes skill to pull that off, whom ever pulled the trigger had training and not just basic gun training either.

With all that is currently publically known the only groups that benefit at all from shooting the cops is the white power structure that has been profiting off non whites for years and the areas white racists who want a race war and who do not want to see non whites in position except subservience.

[raccoon]

22. Good post. nt

[CTyankee]

19. I am very interested in what you have explored here and I can't understand the

objections by a few who would denigrate you. I think you are simply pointing out that "assumptions" lots of white people have made can have a racist dimension. We should never assume. OR, the assumption that the shooter was aiming at the police and not the protesters. Another assumption.

Your OP has raised some serious questions that needs to be raised, IMO...Yelling at you for raising them and dismissing them as "unsupportable" is uncalled for. We can have a discussion.

[pinboy3niner]

23. The objections are directed toward any unsupported claims

In the absence of any evidence whatsoever, it's ludicrous to speculate on the politics of the shooter(S). Whether from the Left or from the Right, trying to drive the narrative ahead of the evidence is wrong.

[CTyankee]

32. You've missed my point which is we can't assume one way or the other.

And I think the OP was raising that question. Agents provocateurs are not new phenomena. And nobody is suggesting that the evidence should not matter.

[KittyWampus]

37. laying out ALL possibilities while asserting none as the absolute truth

is actually how investigations work.

Apparently, you don't want to talk about any of the possibilities then.

[pintobean]

38. You've been here a long time.

I assume you know how this works on DU. We conduct our own investigation built on fragments of information, speculation, and bullshit. We come to conclusions that have nothing to do with reality. When our conclusions are proven to be false, we attack anyone and everyone who says we're wrong.

[kelliekat44]

20. The fact that the shooters haven't been found yet make me suspicious AND the type of weapon

used is another reason to be suspicious. They have the shells so they say...how difficult is it to trace? I do believe...and I am using nothing other than a gut feeling also...that if the shooter or shooters were blacks and/or from the area they would have been caught by now. The police dogs that they always use tracking down blacks would have been used. I may be all wrong but it is my gut feeling.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. How difficult is it to trace?

To trace shells? Gun types correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they put individual identifiers or lot numbers or anything on shell casings. They can tell you the size of the bullet from the casing, can make a guess as to the types of guns a bullet of that size fits in, and that's about it.

Yeah, if they've got the bullet too, they've got that 'distinctive grooves in the bullet' thing they're always talking about on CSI type shows, but that doesn't help you trace anything - you have to actually have the gun in hand to fire another bullet from and compare the two for a match.

As to 'police dogs', there were people all over the place, how would they know which scent to trace? It's not like you're going to get much scent off a shell casing. And even if they did somehow get a scent, no doubt it would lead them to a parking space. Person gets in car and is gone. They're not going to take the dogs around door to door, sniffing everybody in town. Dogs to follow somebody on foot in a forest is an ok idea, dogs to track somebody with access to a vehicle, not so much.

[sendero]

36. The shells are useful..

.... for determining the calibre of the weapon and in some cases can pretty much identify the firearm type/model.

That's about it I think. Only in very rare specialized cases can a shell tell you any more than that.

[Savannahmann]

21. I haven't commented on your threads for the simple reasons listed here.

1) Nobody knows anything except two cops got hit out of four shots.

2) Rampant speculation on the identity and motivation of the shooter is asinine at this point.

3) The RW radical idea is the least likely probability. The idea that a RW nutter would go in and fire at the protesters from behind while the police were in the background is just plain silly. Wouldn't it have made more sense to shoot the protesters and let them charge the cops in outrage? The way that works best is not shooting the protesters in the back, but from behind the police somewhere. I'm sure he could have set up on a side street and popped the rounds off to make the protesters think that the cops had fired at them and trust them to charge the cops in outrage.

4) It is far more likely that somebody from a similar neighborhood was the shooter. As you know, or should know, many inner city youths end up joining the military because of the absence of opportunity around their homes. The idea that they can get a job, some skills that are potentially marketable, and college money is a draw. That means that they may have been trained in combat tactics, and almost certainly were taught how to shoot. So why is a local veteran pissed off that he fought, potentially wounded, possibly saw friends maimed or killed a less likely suspect than your ludicrous idea that the RW snipers set up and started shooting and nobody noticed a pale faced suburban commando running from the place. I'm sorry, but a white boy would stick out and be noticed trying to get away. The locals would probably assume he was an undercover cop who was trying to infiltrate and entrap them.

So relax, chill out. And try thinking instead of finding progressively thinner threads to try and weave into your tapestry of CT nonsense.

[pinboy3niner]

25. "instead of finding progressively thinner threads to...weave into your tapestry of CT nonsense"

[riderinthestorm]

33. I took the OP to mean that the police aren't automatically assuming black perps

And that's a good thing. That they're learning not to automatically assign blame to the black community like they've done in the past.

[CTyankee]

35. Huh? You say that "rampant speculation...is asinine at this point" and then you

have a long paragraph speculating. I don't get it. Who is weaving a tapestry here...

[mainer]

24. You are right to question what's true. I'm also skeptical because of...

The estimated distance between shooter and the victims. Now I'm hardly a marksman, and I have trouble hitting a can from just 30 feet with a pistol, but even for a pretty good shot, it seems like quite a feat to purposefully aim at and hit TWO cops at such a distance.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. I think it simply supports the theory

that if somebody fired a pistol, the bullets did what bullets do, and kept on going until they hit something. Given the distance from where they think the shots originated to the people hit, I would kind of agree with you - the shooter was no James Bond super sniper, but simply fired in a general direction and 'got lucky' in actually hitting anyone in particular. Did he want to hit cops? Did he want to hit protesters? Was he in fact shooting at someone much closer and simply missed his intended target completely? No one will know til they catch him (or her).

[mainer]

28. Exactly. Bullets fired end up somewhere

And they could have hit a protestor. Instead they traveled through and past the crowd to hit the cops standing in a line.

[safeinOhio]

30. 2 out of 3 shots hit targets at 120 yards,

I would guess those odds are not very good for random firing of a pistol. That is unless it was a scoped 223 Thompson Center fired single shot pistol in the hands of a marksman. Is it possible, yes, but highly unlikely. Anyones guess is as good and any other.
As more facts come out, it'll be very interesting. If they have the spent casings, it should be made public as to caliber.

[Android3.14]

31. Only an idiot would fail to consider that possibility

Busterbrown, you can bet money the investigation includes this as one of the major hypotheses. It is a good thing the naysayers on this thread have careers in something other than law enforcement. There would be so many innocent butlers serving time in jail, it would be stupid.

[Sunlei]

34. anyone know what kind of ammo was used? they recovered the bullets?

[lunatica]

40. You're right to question something that doesn't pass the gut test

It doesn't matter how silly as long as it's a possibility. Had you claimed it might have been little green men from Mars I can see why people might denigrate your theory, but otherwise, no reason not to speculate.

I've also asked myself why any black person would do the shooting. What possible motivation could they have? Obviously such shooting will only cause more tension and the possibility of uncontrollable violence on both sides. It would make things even worse than they were before. If it were a black person he/she could only lose in that equation. And so would their family and friends and community. It doesn't make sense no matter how you analyze it, other than if it were some literally crazy person who did it.

But if you try to figure out who would gain by the fallout from the death of cops during very intense racial tensions and what their goal is then your speculation makes a great deal of sense.

It's been a while since I heard this but groups such as skinheads had the goal to start race wars.

Here is a story by Wonkette regarding the Ferguson KKK welcoming the coming race war:

http://wonkette.com/566660/missouri-kkk-doesnt-get-irony-threatens-violence-against-ferguson-terrorists

[busterbrown]

59. and thats why I stated in the original post..

I have no basis for my thoughts....


Just Put something out there...kind of hoping that RW wouldn’t be able to exploit..

[H2O Man]

41. Recommended.

I'm not sure why some of our friends think that your thoughts are of no worth, because they are speculation. Obviously, the crime has not been solved, and you are very clear that what you are saying is just a theory. (By no coincidence, investigators also come up with various possibilities -- or, theories -- while attempting to solve a crime.)

[Dont call me Shirley]

43. Last night on NBC Evening News the reporter stated that it may have been an agitator.

[Skidmore]

52. It is the only scenario

that makes sense. The only gain from this action is more discord and the ginning up of hatred against the people of the community and African - Americans by extension.

[hrmjustin]

57. Time will tell and I am glad the officers are ok.

[cwydro]

58. They've arrested someone now.

So we'll see.

[pintobean]

60. Holy crap, they've arrested a protester

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/03/15/ferguson-police-shooting-arrest/24808987/

[busterbrown]

65. At least I had some hope..

If you remember, I stated that I had no “basis” for my post..

This guy will now be labeled a “thug”..so you all your points were correct..

Your “Holy Crap” sarcasm is exactly why we are so frequently labeled as “elite liberals"
People like you just bite at the bit to prove how bright you are..

[pintobean]

66. Hope? I don't care who the guy is.

The only group he represents are people who try to kill out of anger. All the speculation is just silly and meaningless. I don't care if he gets labeled “thug”. He was trying to murder someone.

[busterbrown]

68. Such a simplified response..

Right wing media labels 90% of Ferguson populations as “thugs”

So if 1 out of 10,000 is labeled a thug in this community and is responsible for such despicable act..
It plays right into Fox’s narrative..Mark Levin’s narrative, Brietbart’s site narrative , Newsmaxe’s narrative, etc,,

This guy should be labeled a criminal deserving just punishment.. You’re apathy of labeling him a thug plays right into their racist hands..

[pintobean]

71. Pffft

I have no control over what they do. I won't allow them to control the English language, though.They don't get to define what a thug is. If we allow it, we're giving them a victory.

[Yo_Mama]

61. Well, it ain't a rightwing agitator!!!

It's a local young man with a record who had been participating in the protests, who either was shooting at someone in the crowd with whom he had a beef, or shooting at the cops with whom he had a beef.

Also I note that the authorities are thanking unknown locals for help in tracking this guy down. Which is not surprising, because the protesters don't want someone shooting around them.

[busterbrown]

62. “Locals Helping"

Thats Good... I posted no basis..Lets remember this..

Plus I caught a lot of crap for my “gut feeling”

If only Right Wing Sites would do this..

[Yo_Mama]

63. I don't spend any time on them so I don't know what they do. n/t

[busterbrown]

64. But usually what ends up on Right Wing Sites..

ends up on MSM.. So in fact we have a pretty good idea whats going on w/right wing rhetoric..
For instance.. This guy will be labeled a Thug.. Already has.

Something I knew would happen...but hoping it wouldn’t..

[Rex]

67. How DARE you be wrong! Those perfect beings on DU are here to tell you

just how stupid you are for being wrong...but HEY they are progressives...series...I swear I've never seen such mean spirited people that call themselves progressive, then again I don't believe for a second most of them are here for honest reasons to begin with.

KEEP on guessing, the fools that mock people for having a brain and an imagination loath the fact that their world is only black and white.

[busterbrown]

69. Right???

I plainly stated I had little basis for my thoughts..

I just knew that if he happened to be Black it would complete the right wing narrative..

I think for the most part a lot of members in this community, are angry old people who consistently want to prove how perceptive and clever they are. Have the snarky remarks around here,,,,I don’t follow.. Seem like a distinctive code,,

[Rex]

70. A few people DARE express their...gasp...opinion in GD! You guys are mavericks!

I mean, on DU1 and DU2 it was almost anything goes. Then the gatekeepers showed up and decided we had it too good. It is the reason the META forum was closed on DU3. I wish they would reopen META, that way these perfect people can go back their and leave GD for people that want to have honest discussions.