Ex-Japan PM: Crimea Vote Was Legitimate

[Purveyor]

MOSCOW — Mar 13, 2015, 10:44 AM ET

A former Japanese prime minister whose visit to Crimea brought harsh criticism at home says he's convinced that the referendum leading to the peninsula's annexation by Russia was legitimate.

Yukio Hatoyama's trip to Crimea this week was criticized both by the Japanese government and his own former party as contrary to Japan's denunciation of the Russian annexation, which occurred a year ago after a hastily called referendum on secession.

The referendum was held as Russian forces and Moscow-backed locals took control of Ukrainian military facilities and government buildings.

Hatoyama, who led Japan for eight months in 2009-10, said in Moscow Friday that from his Crimean trip "I was able to make sure by myself that the expression of popular will was free, peaceful and according to democratic regulations and procedures."

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/japan-pm-crimea-vote-legitimate-29613743

[Kurska]

1. I wondering if people ever have a sudden flash of insight and realize

"Wow I'm carrying water for a homophobic, dictatorial, ex-kgb thug just because he doesn't like America".

Nah I doubt it.

[Purveyor]

3. Same could be asked in regards to many countries such as Saudi Arabia. eom

[NuclearDem]

4. I must have missed the Saudi apologists here.

[ND-Dem]

7. and yet, we don't see daily vilification of the sauds and the saudi government such as

we've lately seen about putin and the Russian government...as if a switch had been thrown....or an order given...

[zappaman]

8. Or posters are not creating OPs praising

The Saudi Government and their rulers constantly?

[Purveyor]

9. No, we have our own government to doing that for us.

Oh what a happy pair, they...

[NuclearDem]

10. Because we don't see Saudi government propaganda posted here on a daily basis.

I'm fairly certain nearly everyone here despises the Saudi royals and their backwards ass attitude towards human rights, LGBT rights, women, and censorship.

I can't say the same with regards to Putin, though.

[ND-Dem]

11. russian propaganda is posted here on a daily basis? do you see any here today?

[NuclearDem]

12. I haven't gone through and checked yet.

But I'm sure we'll see another_thread soon enough.

[ND-Dem]

14. well, since you said it's posted here daily, surely there's some on the front page as we

speak.

please identify it for us.

[NuclearDem]

17. The second I see some evidence of this apparent Saudi apology.

The kind that's so apparently rampant it needed to be brought up as some sort of equivalence.

[ND-Dem]

19. what saudi apology? i certainly didn't say anything like that. but you said russian

propaganda was posted here at DU on a daily basis (the implication being that certain DU posters were agents of the Russian government, I suppose...)

[NuclearDem]

23. I didn't say you did. That was in the post I replied to.

And yes, we have posters who link to places like Sputnik and RT constantly.

[ND-Dem]

24. it's my posts you've been replying to in this thread, & i don't see a saudi apology in

the posts before mine either.

[NuclearDem]

26. Reading comprehension is a plus.

First reply in the thread:

1. I wondering if people ever have a sudden flash of insight and realize

"Wow I'm carrying water for a homophobic, dictatorial, ex-kgb thug just because he doesn't like America".

Nah I doubt it.

Post in response to that:

3. Same could be asked in regards to many countries such as Saudi Arabia. eom

And finally, my post in response to that:

4. I must have missed the Saudi apologists here.

[ND-Dem]

28. I still don't see a saudi apology. or anyone talking about "an apparent saudi apology".

[NuclearDem]

30. Jesus, I never said there was one in any of those posts.

What I did was call out the ridiculous combination tu quoque-lite/strawman about Saudi Arabia apology in the post I responded to.

There is no Saudi apologia on this board, but that won't stop certain people from imagining some so they can make up some equivalence for the near-constant Russia apologia.

[ND-Dem]

31. the difference is that there's no near-constant attack on saudi arabia equivalent

to the near-constant attack on Russia.

and SA certainly equals or exceeds Russia on the awfulness of certain of its leaders and policies.

But SA is an ally, Russia is not; indeed, Russia is well on its way to becoming an enemy again.

[NuclearDem]

32. "But SA is an ally, Russia is not"

Uh, no, that's not the reason. Not by a longshot.

It's because nobody here has any reason or desire to defend Saudi Arabia. It doesn't get discussed because there's no interest in debate.

Russia, on the other hand, gets supporters, and that alone encourages debate.

[ND-Dem]

33. SA is an ally; Russia is not. That's a fact. Thus it's not in the interest of the

Democratic (or Republican) establishment to keep up a continual critique of SA.

People might wonder why we ally with them.

Russia doesn't get "supporters" here that I've noticed. What it gets are people who like the commentary they find on some Russian media & people who get sick of the constant attacks on Russia and Putin, or find them hypocritical.

[NuclearDem]

34. Yes, Russia does have supporters here.

It has a cadre of them here, and then a whole bunch of other people who jump on every anti-Western bandwagon that comes around and laud themselves as anti-fascist crusaders without any sense of irony whatsoever.

[ND-Dem]

35. so 'anti-western' (according to you) = pro-russian?

[NuclearDem]

36. Fuck it, I'm done.

This is fucking pointless.

[Kurska]

27. I have never once posted a single article in defense of Saudi Arabia.

I think it is an awful government filled with awful people who do awful things to minorities.

Meanwhile Russian Propaganda gets posted here all the time.

[ND-Dem]

29. "all the time" except today, apparently.

[NuclearDem]

2. Well, that settles it then.

[geek tragedy]

5. An employee of an energy company

sucking up to a major energy producer.

Wonders never cease.

[ND-Dem]

13. hatoyama is an energy company employee? I heard he was the grandson of the founder

of Bridgestone Tires, the son of a former Japanese Foreign Minister, and the grandson of a former Japanese PM who was also first President of Japan's LDP.

Which energy company is it he's an employee of?

[geek tragedy]

15. He serves Hoifu Energy--along with Neil Bush.

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=232718211&ticker=7:HK

Dr. Yukio Hatoyama has been an Honorary Chairman and Senior Consultant at Hoifu Energy Group Limited since March 21, 2013. Dr. Hatoyama has been elected as the 93th Prime Minister of Japan sine 16 September 2009. First elected to the House of Representatives in 1986, he became the President of Democratic Party of Japan, the main opposition party in Japan, in May 2009. He held office as a member in the House of Representatives for the eighth consecutive term. He served and contributed to the community by adhering to his motto "affection", which earned general praises and credits from various sectors of the society. Leveraging on the spirit of "affection", he succeeded in establishing a mutual respect and friendly cooperative relationship with China, Africa and international communities. Dr. Hatoyama graduated with a Bachelor of Engineering from the University of Tokyo in 1969 and received a PhD in Industrial Engineering from Stanford University in 1976.

Collapse Detail

[ND-Dem]

18. he 'serves them' does he?

Last edited Sat Mar 14, 2015, 07:29 PM - Edit history (2)

like Hilary Clinton 'served' walmart?

like michelle Obama 'served' "major walmart supplier" treehouse foods?

like hunter biden 'serves' burisma holdings (Ukraine's largest private gas producer)?

http://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/people.asp?privcapId=59556166

[geek tragedy]

20. You are very well versed in anti-Democrat talking points. nt

[ND-Dem]

22. you are very well versed in ad hom & personal attack. you made a charge against

hatoyama that can be leveled against most prominent democrats, and most prominent politicians generally. if it's heinous for a republican, or an opponent, it's heinous for a democrat too. I'm not much for the politics of 'it's ok if our team does it'.

hatoyama used to be likened to kennedy; now he is once again. he's being character-assassinated because he got too close to the Russians for some parties' liking.

hatoyama's honorary chairmanship, btw, appears to be uncompensated.

[zappaman]

6. Case closed!

[stevenleser]

16. We see the reason why this idiot had to resign after eight months, facing a no confidence vote

Well, that and the illegal campaign finance contributions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yukio_Hatoyama#Illegal_campaign_contributions

[ND-Dem]

21. "prosecutors chose not to pursue him citing insufficient evidence of criminal activity"

Last edited Sat Mar 14, 2015, 09:02 PM - Edit history (2)

he's heir to the bridgestone tires fortune; the money came from his mother.

kinda like Bloomberg spent $650 million of his own money to get into the mayor's office in the richest city in the country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/30/nyregion/cost-of-being-mayor-650-million-if-hes-rich.html?_r=0

just one of the more obvious examples of the same phenomenon.

How Billionaire Oligarchs Are Becoming Their Own Political Parties

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/19/magazine/how-billionaire-oligarchs-are-becoming-their-own-political-parties.html

Is Bruce Rauner buying political support...

http://www.rebootillinois.com/2014/08/12/editors-picks/patrick-mccraney/bruce-rauner-buying-political-support-republican-groups-across-state-runs-governor/22913/

[JonLP24]

25. It is more of what the other side is saying it isn't

I've seen law professors make a very good case, one actually researched & tried to find credibility over specific allegations. Russia is benefited by the then-current Yanukovych requesting Russia to help. It was a couple days after he fled but if the claims he made are accurate as to why it was very dangerous for him to stay are true it helps them out more. I'd like to see this in court whether than media airwaves where Putin can literally give any kind of speech & easy to find people that compared the speech to Hitler.

Ukraine's government would be more credible if they were more honest regarding themselves instead of saying no one in their right mind would vote against a very corrupt country with a bad system of governing with no separation of powers & entirely centralized form of government.

Gallup polling & numerous other things besides the referendum show most Crimeans prefer Russia or favor Russia but I do know being part of Ukraine which originally had a very narrow majority now his strongly the other way. Military facilities & government buildings were taken control of were so though they couldn't control or enforce how they'd vote by gunpoint or the explanation as why it received such a high % of a vote with a very large turnout. Of course, you can argue its bullshit & call something a Putin boot-licker duped by their propaganda who kills his opponents & whatever. I don't see much proof either way, except any fair & independent referendum would show majority support. Crimean Tartar populations overall seem to oppose due to bad history with the USSR -- Putin mentioned that everyone didn't ally with the Nazis which was the justification or the reason he used for Stalin's mass murder -- in a speech you can easily find people comparing the speech to Hitler.

Regarding Crimean Tartars, as unfair as it seems to some people, in a popular vote, they'd make up the respectable minority.