A Guide to Centrism

[madfloridian]

From Dave Belden at Tikkun Daily Blog 2009

[Thinkingabout]

1. I do not view the world through rose colored glasses. Why is it necessary to chastise

others for their beliefs, I thought it is necessary to elect Democrats.

[Fumesucker]

3. "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world ...

The unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." -George Bernard Shaw

[madfloridian]

4. Oh, come on now. You call that chastising? There are many kinds of Democrats.

We should be allowed to talk about it.

[Thinkingabout]

28. The majority of these replies is more evidence of my point. This is what

you hear on RW talk shows, talk about the republicans, don't divide the DNC.

[madfloridian]

31. I am not dividing the party. This was planned and plotted in the 80s. By their own words...

Last edited Sun Mar 15, 2015, 07:18 PM - Edit history (1)

In their own words.

[Thinkingabout]

32. Why keep iy going, how has this been working in getting Democrats elected.

Why continue to help the GOP? This just what works for them, do you realize how working Americans have suffered under GOP leadership?

[madfloridian]

35. The GOP policies were all too often enabled...

by our supposedly own party.

[Thinkingabout]

36. I know there are some issues which are important to both parties so they

are not issues of just the GOP but the DNC also. There are attempts of policies by members of the DNC which are not in the best interest of the nation as a whole. I am saying if we continue to split the DNC over hairs then we weaken our ability to halt lots of the GOP policies such as their desire to decrease the SNAP program while funding the farm bills. They fight the minimum wage issues and many other things which could help working Americans. They have fought every jobs bills of repairing our infrastructure. They have run wars on working Americans since Reagan got in and busted unions. If we continue to allow the GOP to split our party they know they will continue to win elections. If they can oppress more DNC members from voting, they win. Why are we letting the GOP win?

[madfloridian]

38. Last I read they were trying to put Soc. Sec. cuts back on the table...

Now those are fighting words.

And TPP on the fast track to fast track.

I could go on.

[Thinkingabout]

39. This is what we have to fight against, and it is going to take a few election cycles

To make the changes needed to put us back where we were on the '70's. We con unite and elect candidates who does not want SS cut or we can divide and Republicans gets elected.

[ND-Dem]

12. why elect democrats if they're republicans? is 'democrat' just a name, or does it

actually stand for something?

[sabrina 1]

13. Why does the Dem Leadership 'chastise' to use your word, the Left, but rarely criticize the Right?

Why eg, did Rahm Emmanuel call Liberal ideas (going after Petraeus) 'retarded' while protecting a man who was rightfully named 'betrayus'?

Why did Axelrod attack the Left while promoting 'bi-partisan' with the rabid far right wing nut cases?

I have no 'beliefs' when it comes to politics, it isn't a religion. It is a process by which the people hire others to represent them on the issues.

It is very pragmatic. We cannot ALL go to DC so we choose someone to send there. We pay them and expect them to represent us as promised.

When they fail to do that, we fire them. Like any other business.

The people cannot AFFORD to have their hired Representatives betraying THEIR interests by supporting the top most wealthy people in the country.

The people need their Reps to protect their interests, such as SS, Medicare, Economic Equality, Civil Rights etc which are ALWAYS under attack from the Right.

Lately they haven't always done a good job of that. So the voters supported ONLY those who DID represent them.

Sometimes people forget, Politicians are NOT our friends or family, they don't know us and we don't know them. They are employees. All we ask of them to keep the promises they make during the hiring process. And if they don't, they have zero right to expect to keep their jobs. Just like the rest of us.

[madfloridian]

14. Good question.

[JDPriestly]

22. You are so right, Sabrina 1.

[Scootaloo]

19. Go have a look at Dov Hikind, and then come back and tell me every Democrat is worth electing

it's necessary to elect progressives. if you're just going to throw your vote at a party without caring about where the politician stands, you will end up voting for Republicans no matter which candidate you select.

[delrem]

24. First they buy the name, then say you must vote for them because of the name.

Here in BC, Canada, the old right-wing Social Credit so disgraced itself that it was wiped out (provincial politics). So a bunch of Howe St (BC's smaller version of Wall St) corporate back room dealers pumped money and resources (they had all the money and connections and they could buy good employees) into buying out the rump Liberal party, and so voila, the identical Social Credit wheeler dealers now had a new party, instantly. In a matter of a few months they had a new name complete with a brand spanking new leader, and by pumping mega money into the next election what do you know, they won. Not surprising - their controllers owned all the media, the radio, the TV, the newspapers. They call themselves "Liberals" but they're corporatists. It's pitiful but that's all they are, there's nothing more to them. Identical in tone to the Third Way, they include just enough "social content" in their platform as needed to keep the population placid - and not a drop more.

If you want to be a loser then yes, turn your mind off and vote for a name because you think it's a nice feel good name -- and don't look any deeper. For the love of all that's holy, don't think! Oppose all politics that doesn't promote the politicians sporting that feel good name. Marginalize them. Explain about how they aren't "realistic", how they don't know how to tie their own shoes.

[JDPriestly]

21. It IS necessary to elect Democrats.

It is also necessary to refuse to elect Republicans with Democratic nametags.

The old song, "Which Side Are You On?" is the question.

Are you on the side of working people and democracy or on the side of the corporations that buy too many of our politicians?

[cui bono]

23. Chastise? This is a description of what's happened to the political spectrum.

Why do you call it chastising?

Here's a visual:

[LondonReign2]

29. + a ton

[stillwaiting]

26. It is ridiculous how often "far leftists" are chastised around here, and you

don't even want us to acknowledge the reality of what's happened in this country over the past few decades?

Well, that's not going to happen.

I do understand why many within your political camp want for us to be quiet though.

This is a political fight, and you're not going to get us to shut up about what's happened and continues to happen in this country (i.e. the continuing shift to the right). The results of this occurrence are evident all around us, and they are not good for just about all of us. So, no, we will not be quiet about what's happened. If you perceive that to be us chastising others for their beliefs, well there's nothing we can do about that.

It would be best if you didn't waste your time telling us to be quiet though since it truly is and will continue to be a waste of time.

We. Will. Not. Be. Quiet.

We need BETTER Democrats. Much better. To do that will require us pointing out what has happened within the Democratic Party to avoid its continuance.

[CANDO]

30. Thank you!

For speaking for me. I endorse your statement.

[madfloridian]

37. I agree.

[w4rma]

2. Centrists, both parties, are corporatist cynics. Both progressives & conservatives have principles.

The spectrum isn't a line as this comic makes it appear to be. The spectrum is at least 2 dimensions, like a plane. "Centrists" just don't believe the same things as liberals and conservatives do. And they aren't in the "center", either. "Centrists" are actually very very radical, when plotted on a plane.

[madfloridian]

5. I agree....it's not a simple line. Complicated.

I guess the point of the cartoon is far left, liberals, really have no place left on the spectrum.

[w4rma]

6. The progressive ideology is what most Americans support, if you don't label it.

Obviously progressives have a strong position on the American "spectrum".

[madfloridian]

7. IF we don't label it, actually say the word.

Yes, that's the irony...that's where most people are.

[w4rma]

8. I don't need the label. I only want the policies. (nt)

[madfloridian]

11. I don't want to feel shunned by my own party.

Like I did in 2004. So I call myself liberal.

[w4rma]

44. Oh, people like Rahm Emmanuel (and his enablers) don't support progressive policies.

And, obviously, those neoliberal types *will* try to shun and demotivate their opponents in the Democratic primaries.

[sabrina 1]

16. True, and that was proven in the last two midterms, where Progressive Issues appeared

on local ballots across the country, they WON, across the political spectrum.

It's simple, no point in pulling any punches.

We are being lied to in order to excuse Centrists posing as Dems from NOT supporting Progressive Issues, and I think people have finally caught on to the rigged game they play.

Those are Elizabeth Warren's words paraphrased, as she said: The game IS rigged, against the working class.

[w4rma]

45. Exactly. And don't forget that the "centrists" who ran on neoliberal platforms lost. (nt)

[sabrina 1]

46. Yes, they did and they are going to keep losing which doesn't seem to bother

the party leadership.

[Rex]

9. Yes both parties took a huge lurch to the right.

The GOP with the goofy as shit Tea Party and the Dems with the Third Way group. Bottom line, neoliberalism should never be promoted by anyone with a moral compass.

Conservatives on both sides favor capital over labor. Liberals favor labor over capital. Progressives and moderates try and find a healthy middle. The GOP favors blowing up the planet with nukes.

[madfloridian]

10. Would not be so upset except it was planned that way.

In their own words. An "intellectual buyout" of the Democratic Party.

We need to be able to talk about it without such fear of being put down. Especially since it was planned that way.

Simon Rosenberg 2001:
SNIP..."Simon Rosenberg, the former field director for the DLC who directs the New Democrat Network, a spin-off political action committee, says, "We're trying to raise money to help them lessen their reliance on traditional interest groups in the Democratic Party. In that way," he adds, "they are ideologically freed, frankly, from taking positions that make it difficult for Democrats to win."

Rob Shapiro, the DLC VP at the time, and a Clinton advisor, spoke clearly about their purpose.

What we've done in the Democratic Party," explains institute Vice President Rob Shapiro, a Clinton economic adviser, "is an intellectual leveraged buyout." The DLC, presumably, is acting as arbitrageur, selling off unprofitable mind-sets to produce a lean and efficient philosophy for the "New Democrat," as DLCers call their slick bimonthly magazine.

[Dragonfli]

15. k&r

[blkmusclmachine]

17. Keep going to the right --->

[Rex]

20. Only one problem, there is no more room to go right.

Unless you mean right off a cliff.

[madfloridian]

40. You are right.

Just can't go further right than the GOP extremists right now.

[Rex]

43. I know I will get yelled at for having an opinion, but here goes anyway.

To me, there are many groups - we are a big tent party no doubt.

The Far Left - you have your communists...maybe even further to the left (Fringe Left), groups like the Earth Liberation Front.

Then you have the classic Liberal, the person that statistically votes in higher numbers than any other group for the democratic candidate. All for equal rights. Against any social injustice caused by government or corporations. Sees the dangerous mix between business and government. Second most vocal group. The OWS crowd.

Then the Progressive-moderates...they want to see everyone just get along and make progress toward equal rights and have a robust economy under the control of regulated capitalism.

Now we move on to the group that WAS the moderates - now known as Centrist, they embrace free trade and no restrictions over the market. However, they do NOT want to kick grandma off Social Security OR the troops off of food stamps (at one time they were for giving raises, but moved to the right and just giving foot stamps is as good as it gets).

Then you have the most vocal group, the Center-right wing...now it almost seems they are no different than their buddies on the Right OR the Center-left wing (to hardcore GOPers). They feel slighted all the time, because they too still like social policies (a few) but always place them secondary to economic stability. Big on saving banks under any circumstances, because labor can always be gained - but capital is hard to come by.

Lastly you have the Third Way types that are almost indistinguishable from libertarians. Perhaps they have a pet issue that is to the left that they like...but only one. And always money trumps peace, human life, etc..

Anyway, let the pile on commence.

[whereisjustice]

18. Centrists - killing Democratic elections by creating one disenfranchised voter at a time.

[anotojefiremnesuka]

25. Centrist Democrats = Republicans embarrassed by their racist Republican brethren

I personally find Centrist and Conservative Democrats a waste of time and waste of a vote.

If it were up to me and unfortunately it is not, the conservatives and centrists currently destroying the Democratic Party need to be chased out of the party just like the racists that were once prevalent in the Democratic Party.

[MisterP]

34. their stance is explicitly "most everything Bush pushed, BUT we don't think gays cause hurricanes"

and when that scintillating stance fails to draw in votes they blame anyone who complained--in fact they pre-blame them!

[jopacaco]

27. Not a Centrist

I am a lifelong liberal who is losing all faith in the Democratic Party. I do not view myself as far left, just rational and supporting the common good, the former Democratic platform.
I have seen some good Democrats run here in Maine who have been given absolutely no support from the national party. Why? Because there were Republican-lites running as Independents and they were good enough for the party or they didn't want to challenge a "moderate" like Susan Collins. Collins was smart enough not to sign the letter to Iran but won't call any of her buddies out on it. She claims to support concepts such as minimum wage increases but always votes against them. There is always a "yes, but" in her answer why she sides with the corporate interests and most people just don't pay enough attention to the differences in what she says and does.
I am tired of holding my nose and voting for the lesser of 2 evils. I have voted in every primary and election since I was 18 and voted for George McGovern. Once I get beyond my local district representative, who is a good union guy, I am not represented by anyone in my state. I really would like to vote for someone who I can actually support. I do not want to have to vote for Hillary Clinton - not even sure at this point if I can. I want a real Democrat, not a centrist.

[Matrosov]

33. Centrists = Republican Lite nt

[madfloridian]

41. Conversation with Ben Carson supporter blew my mind...

and then I realized the House has a lot of folks like that lately. You can not compromise with people like that.

It was not an intentional conversation, but it was disturbing. She saw the news about the DOJ report on Ferguson, and she said oh good they found Darren Wilson innocent. She said he gave that guy what he deserved. I said oh no he did not. I told her he did not deserve to be killed, that it was wrong to shoot him 6 times. I couldn't say more as she got started sounding like a blowhard. I lost track of the lies she spouted, finally told her I was a liberal and she was not telling the truth. That silenced her a little.

She was just spouting nonsense she had heard on rightwing radio.

There are so many like her in our area. They will never change, their minds are made up forever. Trying to compromise with people like that started us on a losing path.

[WillyT]

42. Huge K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[madfloridian]

47. Welcome Willy T