Woman convicted of "feticide" after what she says was a late miscarriage

[gollygee]

http://www.pri.org/stories/2015-03-13/indiana-jury-says-purvi-patel-should-go-prison-what-she-says-was-miscarriage

Prosecutors later charged her with “child neglect resulting in the death of a dependent.”

Patel’s defense team says she became pregnant by a married co-worker and didn’t want her strict Hindu parents to know. Her lawyer also argued that she didn’t know exactly how long she'd been pregnant.

By the time of her trial, Patel faced two felony charges: child neglect and feticide. Feticide is usually used against illegal abortion providers or people who harm pregnant women. It’s on the books in many states, but only a few states have used these laws against pregnant women.

[cali]

1. absolutely horrific. Women are losing the war on women.

[phantom power]

22. This is bad.

[Brickbat]

2. This is chilling on several fronts.

[cali]

3. from the article: 38 states have feticide laws. In 23 of those states

the laws are applicable to the earliest stages of pregnancy.

[cali]

4. I'm going to kick the shit out of this thread. It needs to be seen

[Bettie]

5. Evil idiots

This is the way it is going.

Miscarriage is now a criminal act.

[cali]

6. Two women have been charged under this law in Indiana. One a Chinese immigrant

and Ms. Patel.

[gollygee]

7. both women of color. nt

[cali]

8. yes. and both immigrants.

Indiana is not safe for women.

[cali]

9. btw, thank you so much for posting this.

[cali]

10. DU, on the whole, doesn't really care much about this

and I'm not saying that because of this one thread. Threads about the loss of rights women are suffering in this country are routinely ignored. I don't know why that is, but it's depressing.

KICK

[jeff47]

23. Well, ya gotta keep your powder dry.

Can't make too many waves or upset too many people. Might get in the way of finding that nice middle ground that is guaranteed to get Republicans to switch parties.

Guaranteed, I tell ya! Now, how much of a donation can I put you down for?

Wait....results? You want results? What are you, some kind of liberal purist?!

[kcr]

44. They're ignored at best

Often a thread gets derailed and is sometimes the catalyst for a huge flamewar which gets blamed for "the gender wars".

[cali]

47. I don't really get it. Why are women's reproductive rights

considered so trivial?

[karynnj]

56. I don't think they are - at the risk of angering you and some others, I would suggest that

the problem is that this really is a case where the woman's actions are pretty hard to defend. By that, I don't mean that this woman should not be given the benefit of the doubt, but that it it is also reasonable that she was charged with something.

As to women's issues, I would suggest that there is at least as much a problem that she obviously must not have thought she had any way to more reasonably deal with her situation. It seems that she attempted to deal with it just by denying the reality of being pregnant.

Her actions - placing the fetus (she says dead) in the dumpster on the way to the emergency room and not telling the medical people that she had had a miscarriage (or even been pregnant) open her to suspicion that she intentionally gave birth in private and thought she could hide the entire episode. She hid the pregnancy for months. What was her plan when she gave birth?

Had she gone to the hospital when labor pains began, there would not be a problem - even if it resulted in a stillbirth. Had she called 911 when the stillbirth (or birth) occurred, again, there likely would have been no problem. After throwing the fetus/baby in the dumpster, there is a problem.

As to feticide, Roe vs Wade established what was intended as a compromise between the right of the woman and the right of the child. The latter, per Roe vs Wade, exists as the child becomes viable -- when only the health or the life of the woman being endangered would preclude it.

The reason many people, completely in agreement with a woman's right to choose might not get involved here, is that the facts are not completely out.

[cali]

57. I feel as if you don't understand the case. She was convicted of two

completely contradictory charges- on virtually no evidence. There was no indication of any drugs in her system that could have caused her to miscarry.

I also don't think you're taking into account the cultural differences that may have precipitated her actions.

I don't think you have a grasp of the facts in this case. No offense meant.

[karynnj]

63. I do see the problem that the two charges are contradictory. one assumes a baby was born - the other

that it was a fetus when killed.

I understand that her culture was hostile towards the situation she found herself in. However, it is not unique to her culture and most Hoosiers would know people from cultures where there would be every bit as much hostility. They might not understand Hindu culture, but many would know people who are fundamentalists ( There is a substantial Amish community nearby as well as ultra conservative Dutch Christian Reform ). Not to mention, there have been cases where young secular women have hidden pregnancies and attempted to discard the resultant baby.

I grew up in Indiana and have heard news accounts of things like that - even involving women of various ethnicity. ( 1 minute on google finds - http://www.wthr.com/story/6798354/indiana-teen-suspected-of-leaving-newborn-in-trash and http://www.hngn.com/articles/38319/20140806/indiana-woman-gives-birth-in-warehouse-bathroom-leave-child-to-die-returns-to-work.htm ) I knew people born into very fundamentalist families, from a coworker at a Dairy Queen, whose family was in trouble because girls dropped out of school as soon as they hid puberty and a college friend, who grew up on a lake but never learned to swim because only boys were allowed to swim in the lake.

I do get that this woman was in a terrible position - having violated cultural mores. That the father was married made the situation basically unfixable.

I did not say that the charges were accurate and the verdicts justified. However, I do think that SOME charges should have been made because there are clearly things that she did that were wrong . The primary one is throwing the fetus/baby in the trash.

[cali]

64. I agree that some charges should have been made. Feticide and child neglect should not

have been brought. And she shouldn't have been found guilty of those charges based on the facts.

[gollygee]

65. Are there laws about what you have to do with a dead fetus?

That seems tricky. When it's a late term fetus as in this case it's more obvious but women miscarry at all stages of pregnancy.

She didn't want her parents to know she'd been pregnant. It seems clear that's why she didn't tell anyone at the ER that she'd given birth. Her parents would find out. Her behavior was odd, and maybe cause for a psychological assessment, but criminal?

And you said putting the fetus in the trash was just one thing she should be charged with. What other things should she be charged with? What would the legal penalty be for throwing away a fetus after you miscarry?

Edited to add a link to info about laws re fetuses (in Indiana even.) Google is my friend. http://funerallaw.typepad.com/blog/2014/01/indiana-the-disposition-of-miscarried-fetuses.html

[Lancero]

98. Depending on how the state classifies them...

Her throwing the fetus in the dumpster is grounds for a charge on either improper disposal of medical waste or improper disposal of human remains.

[strategery blunder]

95. I read the full article

Could she have handled the situation better by seeking medical attention immediately and disclosing her pregnancy/stillbirth? Yes.

Was there sufficient evidence to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that she murdered a viable fetus? Fuck no. The best the prosecution could do was innuendo because her actions, driven by fear of shame by a patriarchal family and culture, were not rational. The possibility of miscarriage still casts reasonable doubt upon the charge of feticide (assuming it has some intent requirement to prove the charge), even reading the facts (as described in the article) in the light most favorable to the prosecution.

I suspect that any potential juror who understood the concept of "beyond a reasonable doubt" was kicked from the jury pool by the prosecutor during voir dire.

And if the prosecutor need not prove intent as an element of feticide, that's even more fucked up. Sure, let's force anyone who has a miscarriage of any kind underground and/or to suicide. Or jail.

(Full disclosure: I'm male. I'm pro-choice and typically regard threads such as these as "none of my business." But this is such a travesty of justice that I had to say something. And I'm not a lawyer, though I probably am too intelligent to make it through voir dire because I can see through bullshit.)

[Lancero]

99. The prosecutors got the conviction by 'appealing' to emotions in this case...

http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/exclusive-jurors-react-to-patel-neglect-feticide-verdict/31099608

[strategery blunder]

100. Yep. Troll emotions to discard the reasonable doubt standard. Exactly what the prosecutor did.

Disgusting. I figured any potential juror who knew what "reasonable doubt" actually meant was challenged by the prosecutor during voir dire and excluded from the jury. I hope the prosecutor gets disbarred as a result of appeals from this case, but somehow I doubt that will ever happen.

It's one of only two ways I can rationalize this verdict at all (the other being that it's overly broad law, and needs to be re-written...and it's not mutually exclusive with prosecutorial misconduct).

[Comrade Grumpy]

59. It's not a sexy issue.

It's typically not Rand Paul or Ted Cruz or some other national Republican villain doing this stuff. And you know we're all dying to be outraged at their latest utterances.

And a lot of it is coming out of state legislatures. Nobody can be bothered to actually care about what goes on in Indianapolis or Pierre or Jackson.

I posted threads about state-level threats to abortion rights for awhile last year. They all dropped like stones.

But the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue or other "social justice warrior" stuff? That's another story.

[cali]

62. I think you're right. and that's pretty sad.

[creepinthecellar]

83. Because reproductive rights are really privacy rights

I think that's why some otherwise loud and expressive people don't have much to say on women's rights, specifically when it involves abortion.
Because it's a PRIVATE ISSUE and well-meaning, rational, non-hypocritical people DON'T chime in, the "conversation" on the broad issue of women's rights is left to the a**holes who want to strip them away.
We need more input from people who are pro-choice on the issues of abortion, feticide (which is SUPPOSED to be when a THIRD-PARTY kills a fetus, not when the mother causes death for any reason) and access to reproductive health services.
On a personal note- I'm so starved for meaningful conversation on these topics and I'm glad I found this site the other day!!!

[cali]

84. It can only be a private issue with support. otherwise, women lose

the right for it to be a private decision.

thanks for your comment and welcome.

[smirkymonkey]

92. I have noticed this and it is depressing.

Unfortunately we have lost many of the best women's rights advocates due to abominable behavior of some of the MRA types here, so we aren't seeing the kind of opposition that we would once be used to.

[City Lights]

11. This absolutely disgusts me.

What. The. Fuck.

[Skidmore]

12. Kicking

Barbaric.

[mnhtnbb]

13. This is outrageous.

It's bad enough women are so fearful of persecution from their religious families
when they are pregnant outside of marriage that they try to hide the pregnancy
or, in this case, the most probably still born, premature baby. But to face this kind of jail time?

Yet some father who leaves a living child locked in a car to die faces no criminal charges.
http://www.oregontelegraph.com/index.php/sid/231066329

This country is seriously crazy and seriously lacking in social justice for women.

[cali]

14. the war on women has been wildly successful

[handmade34]

15. We've lost our collective mind...

for allowing this to happen, for not coming to her defense, for so many reasons.......

that could be me sitting in prison after 40 years... I'm livid, I'm sad, I'm nauseous, thinking about how scary this is and the implications for women in the future

[cali]

16. yep. largely we've taken this passively.

women's rights have been seriously eroded over the years. I fear it is only going to get worse.

[dembotoz]

17. guess we have political prisoners too

[cali]

18. Even in liberal Hawaii, new bullshit laws are being proposed:

Hawaii Legislature to Consider Bill Based on Debunked ‘Born Alive’ Claims

Hawaii, a state dominated by Democratic legislators, will take up at least one anti-choice bill this session. The legislature will also consider a feticide bill that could pose problems for reproductive rights in the state.

One bill, HB 1444, introduced at the end of January, would give full legal protection to so-called “born alive” infants. Such legislation, which started gaining popularity among anti-choice advocates a decade ago, is based on the unfounded claim that fetuses regularly survive botched abortions and are then killed by health-care providers.

The claim is unsubstantiated by medical evidence and records, including from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), that show no pattern of infants being “born alive” after abortions, let alone being killed by providers.

A second bill, HB 1234, though not explicitly anti-choice, poses potential risks for abortion rights in the state.

The bill, backed by 15 state representatives, would include in the definition of feticide anyone who causes the death of a fetus. Feticide laws, often called fetal homicide laws, have spread across the country in recent years, with proponents calling them necessary to protect the safety of both a woman and her fetus.

<snip>

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2015/02/23/hawaii-legislature-consider-bill-based-debunked-born-alive-claims/

[creepinthecellar]

70. HB 1234 has a Maternal Exception

..which means the mother of the fetus can never be charged with feticide, and neither can the woman's doctor. HB 1234 is written and sponsored by pro-choicers.
the other bill- HB 1444, proposes the sort of law necessary to accomplish cases like Purvi Patel's. These bills are written and sponsored by completely different people
Right now in liberal Hawaii, it is no offense to kill a woman's fetus, against her will... But it IS a crime for a anyone to participate in an "unlawful" abortion, which literally means anything but a plainly legal abortion.
that's not right...

[uppityperson]

72. welcome to du and I have to ask about your user name, it is something

[creepinthecellar]

73. It's a song..

..by the Butthole Surfers.

[uppityperson]

80. thanks, which leads me off to google and old band.

[cali]

19. Here's an excellent article on this case and more

It was a horrible week for reproductive rights, as Indiana woman Purvi Patel was found guilty of two conflicting charges – “feticide” the act of intentionally causing the death of a fetus, and “neglect of a dependent” which requires that a baby be born. Somehow, despite the fact that the two events could not have happened simultaneously, a jury found her guilty of both crimes, and she will now face up to 70 years in prison, all because she had a late miscarriage and then showed up to a hospital for follow up care after having disposed of the body on her own.

One of the biggest factors in the guilty verdict, according to jurors, is the pictures they were shown of the wrapped fetus after it was found in a dumpster. “When they actually showed us, we were expecting something that wasn’t formed and this baby obviously was very formed. It was a boy and he had his arms, his legs, his toes, his fingers. That’s when it started touching home for a lot of us women that were on the jury,” one juror told a local news station. “That still chokes me up because I can see those in my mind and I just, I wanted so much to believe her, you know?”

It was these images that made jurors find her guilty despite there being no medical proof that the fetus did in fact take a breath or was actually born alive, as prosecutors had claimed, nor was there any evidence of any medication in Patel’s system in blood tests. That idea should be terrifying to everyone; abortion opponents are not only still determined to see this as a do it yourself abortion, but are fine with stating that the rest of her life in prison is exactly what Patel deserves. “We agree the prosecutor should have pursued this because it involves an innocent human life,” said St. Joseph County Right to Life Program Director Jeanette Burdell. “Unfortunately, this case shows that our culture and our society have devalued human life to the point where this mother might not have been fully aware of the gravity of her actions. This is the impact of legalized abortion.”

So much for claims of not wanting to punish women if they get illegal abortions.

In legislative news, the state of Arizona is proposing a hospital admitting privileges bill they hope will close the state’s few remaining abortion clinics. North Carolina is considering its own new set of clinic rules after anti-abortion advocates declared last year’s rules not obstructive enough. Idaho and Arkansas are both moving ahead with their telemed abortion bans, which are expected to pass easily this session. The D&E ban in Kansas had its first committee meeting, and advocates hope they can fast track the new bill to get it through the chambers quickly. Michigan, meanwhile, wants to have additional reporting requirements at abortion clinics, but some bill opponents say it’s just a way to try to make the procedure look more dangerous than it really is.

Read more: http://www.care2.com/causes/repro-wrap-woman-convicted-for-both-feticide-and-neglect-and-other-news.html#ixzz3UYcOm1jn

[tblue37]

30. With some luck the sheer self-contradictory lunacy of the charges she

was convicted of will enable her lawyers to successfully appeal this absurd and horrifying verdict.

[cali]

32. I certainly hope so.

[gollygee]

33. "Will enable her lawyers. . ."

This is where wealth privilege becomes evident. Does she have lawyers plural? Or does she have a public defender?

I hope you're right. Maybe an organization will take up her cause. (I posted the OP before having horrible dental work done. I should re-read it because maybe this kind of thing is answered in the article. Can't remember.)

[tblue37]

49. I hope some justice oriented groups step up to make sure she is properly

represented. If a legitimate defense fund is started for her appeal, I will make a contribution.

[Orrex]

20. Holy shit.

I was halfway through the article before I realized that this happened right here in the good ol' US of A.

God Bless America!

[cali]

21. kick

every single day in this country new oppressive anti-choice legislation is proposed. Most of it is passed and stands.

[valerief]

24. I'm surprised they didn't call her a Communist, too, and make her name names of

other pregnant women.

This bullshit is both tragic and farcical.

[mercuryblues]

25. thought crime

There is no evidence Ms. Patel took an abortifacent, so how she can be guilty to feticide is beyond comprehension unless wishing you were not pregnant is now considered feticide in Indiana. There appears to be little convincing evidence (beyond a reasonable doubt) that the fetus was born alive, so the neglect charges are equally disturbing.

https://drjengunter.wordpress.com/2015/03/14/purvi-patel-faces-70-years-in-jail-for-a-premature-delivery/

[Dont call me Shirley]

26. A sad day in the lives of women. A sad day for Purvi.

One day we must tell men "no more sex" until you undo these "regulation prisons" you have put us in. We will stand for your hatred and power hoarding no more. Women in Africa were successful in getting the men to wear condoms as a protection from aids using this method.

[allan01]

27. hemi

it looks like that they seriously want back alley abortions and meanwhile the rich just fly away to a area or country that allows abortion. we will see more unwanted kids wandering the streets again , why do we always have to go backwards. bah humbug.
white picket fences and guess what little alice dosent live here anymore ! the good ole days never existed .

[Tuesday Afternoon]

28. gawdamn, the stupid in this country. fucking wonders never cease.

[Stargazer09]

29. Disgusting

Why is our own country treating us this way???

(Rhetorical question. I know why, and I'm disgusted by it.)

[One_Life_To_Give]

31. Cultural

Had she called an ambulance from the beginning there probably wouldn't be any charges etc. Perhaps in India this is more normal/expected. But I think here there is an expectation that a woman having a miscarriage would seek medical help. That coupled with the occasional story of a young woman abandoning her newborn in a dumpster is IMO what convicted her. It probably never occurred to most people on the jury that having a miscarriage while not missing a minute of work could be normal in other parts of the world.

[fasttense]

46. Cultural? Yeah? She was convicted of murder for having a miscarriage in the USA.

She was NOT convicted in India.

Miscarriages are now court fodder in the USA. So on top of losing your potential baby, the government will be carefully scrutinizing your behavior. If there is even the slightest indication you may not have wanted the potential baby, then they will throw it to the courts to decide. Because, you know abortions are illegal in the USA of Christendom. Oh, wait, abortions are sometimes still legal but you have to be white, rich and pretty to get one.

[kcr]

54. Yes, I read about a case

where a woman fell down a flight of stairs while pregnant, and a nurse overhearing her mentioning having not wanting to be pregnant while in the er triggered her legal woes.

[fasttense]

87. So, be very careful of what you say about the fetus inside of you

If you say the wrong thing, you just might be on trial for murder.

A very sad day in the USA.

[Android3.14]

34. Any woman who votes Republican should apologise to all the other women

How fucked up is that?

[cali]

36. alas, many women who vote republican do so because they are anti-choice

they won't be apologizing anytime soon.

[zazen]

35. I hope this is overturned on appeal--horrific! n/t

[Ms. Toad]

37. Horrible laws aside, this appears to be a case of rogue jury.

At least from what is reported in the articles I've seen, there is not evidence from which a reasonable jury could have decided that she committed each and every element of the crimes of which she has been convicted. Let's hope the reporting is accurate, and the convictions overturned on appeal as unsupported by the facts.

Unfortunately, determining the jury got the facts wrong is a very hard standard to meet. Reversing this travesty may hinge on the fact that the jury found her guilty of two legally inconsistent crimes. That will be looked at de novo on appeal - easier than overturning a jury's finding of fact.

[ismnotwasm]

38. Jesus

“[The officer] asked about, ‘So who’s the father of this baby?’” Selm says. “[Patel] acted kind of embarrassed, like she didn’t want to talk about it. And he said, ‘Was it a one night stand or something? Oh, and was he Indian too?’ He kept going on about ‘was he Indian and where is he?’”

WTF? Wrong on so many levels

[bettyellen]

41. Oh fuck me- that is disturbing. WTF would that matter?

[suffragette]

89. Very disturbing. They pointed to her demeanor as if it was proof of guilt

In true witch hunt manner, everything added to their 'proof' of guilt.

And apparently, no Miranda or any regard for her rights.


http://rhrealitycheck.org/rj-court-watch/rj-court-watch-indiana-convicts-first-pregnant-person-feticide/

But, ultimately, I think what we are seeing in both these prosecutions is not prosecutions based on evidence but prosecutions based on emotion and assumptions about what an appropriate mother looks like, how an appropriate mother behaves, and how a woman should or should not respond to news that she is pregnant. One of the things that really struck me about the Patel prosecution in particular was there was a lot of testimony from the state about Patel’s demeanor. They said that she didn’t cry enough, that she was having a difficult time looking doctors in the eye when she was talking to them, that she was very cold in her demeanor. They spun that so say she was a murderer. Those are also classic trauma symptoms too. So I think the fact that we have the state coming down in its criminal capacity against women of color for bad pregnancy outcomes is something that, I mean, we expect the anti-choice community to be silent about this kind of thing, but the reproductive rights community really needs to be coming together and up in arms about this.



Also, see my post below about the bogus 17th century 'test' they used to 'prove' the fetus was alive.

[niyad]

39. but, we are constantly being told there is NO war on women. this is beyond obscene.

[cali]

43. the war on women has been horribly successful. n/t

[niyad]

45. and it continues, more aggressively each day.

[pkdu]

40. Kick

and a special "fuck you" to the doctor who felt a need to be with police during the search.

[Lancero]

85. The doctor didn't do anything wrong in this case.

The law mandates reports of suspected child abuse, a suspicion which the doctor developed after the mother said she wasn't pregnant yet the medical exam he preformed said the opposite. The doctor reported it as a newborn, and corrected the report after the mother told her what really happen.

The doctor didn't need to go with the police, though in any event a doctor would have been necessary for procedural reasons.

The doctor didn't do anything wrong. The doctor was just following the law when it comes to reporting suspected child abuse.

The ones who were wrong were the prosecutor who pushed trumped up charges, and the judge and jury who found her guilty of those charges.

[pkdu]

93. I guess we disagree...

"The doctor updated the police, and then did something no mandated reporter is required to do: He joined them."

[Lancero]

96. A doctor would have been necessary anyway for procedural reasons...

This doctor didn't need to be at the scene, though the police would have still had to call a doctor. So his presence wasn't, as you are trying to say, a bad thing.

[xmas74]

42. kick for exposure

while I bang my head against a wall.

[mountain grammy]

48. This is so outrageous and disgusting..

I feel like I need a shower after reading it. If she has a legal defense fund, I will donate.

and folks are incensed about the violation of free speech rights for a bunch of racist frat boys who were only expelled from school.

[riversedge]

50. map of 38 states having Feticide laws-of which 23 have laws affecting early stagtes of pregnancy

?



itok=ayKeGUjHhttp://www.pri.org/stories/2015-03-13/indiana-jury-says-purvi-patel-should-go-prison-what-she-says-was-miscarriage

[gollygee]

51. And I remember when these laws were starting to be discussed and passed

we were told that it was just about violence against women who were pregnant, not an attack on abortion rights or on women. But I also remember that many of us never believed that. I think this shows clearly that we were right.

[Dawson Leery]

79. It was not just Republicans,

the Casey's of Pennsylvania have no problem putting their church before country.

[lupinella]

52. K&R n/t

[tosh]

53. Kick.

This is just so...dystopic.

[Takket]

55. I sincerly hope this gets appealed because it sounds to me like....

The Jury convicted with no evidence because they just felt sorry for the baby having been found in a dumpster. The fact this woman was terrified to let her family know about this baby, and therefor chose to place him in the trash, is NOT evidence of murder.

[hifiguy]

58. Kick.

This is some seriously evil shit.

[Hekate]

60. Kick

[uppityperson]

61. k&r for wtf

[gollygee]

66. People in the thread talked about a legal defense fund - there is one

https://rhrc.democracyengine.com/purvi-patel?&utm_medium=email&utm_source=reality&utm_content=2+-+Click+here+to+give+to+the+Purvi+Patel+Fa&utm_campaign=indiana-feticide&source=indiana-feticide

[progressoid]

67. GRRR...

[marym625]

68. I truly don't know how much more I can take

We have become a nation I don't recognize.

[Ilsa]

69. These laws are insane.

They charge anyone they can with this new crap just because a woman didn't want to be pregnant. Nevermind that she didn't cause her own miscarriage.

This is terrible. Better triple-up on your birth control, ladies. Nevermind that you can't afford it.

[Judi Lynn]

71. If only this woman can get good legal resources for appeal. This is hideous.

No one deserves to be treated like this. God damn these idle monsters. They have far too much time on their hands if what really gets them going is making the lives of good human beings far more painful than anyone can bear.

Pure evil. It's time the real people took control back from these social perverts who've wormed their way into our government.

[stevenleser]

76. I've reached out to some folks. All I can say right now. nt

[Delphinus]

82. From your lips

to the ears of the goddess or god who can help bring this to fruition. I thought that by the time I died, this would not be something women would still have to face. We just can't seem to move forward.

[stevenleser]

74. Wait, she was convicted of this B.S.?!?!?!

Is this being appealed?

[prayin4rain]

75. What? ?? This is insane. Miscarry, go to prison?? What a scary time for women. n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

77. What the hell is wrong with people.

So prosecute the woman for having a miscarriage. Take her away from the parents she cares for because of a medical event. Tragic and scary as hell.

I can't wait until they start selling us to the glue factory once we hit menopause...

[Dawson Leery]

78. It is times such as these that ISIS does not seem to be a threat to cause much alarm.

[Starry Messenger]

81. More of that female privilege we hear so much about. nt.

[Lancero]

86. Considering that Indiana is controlled by Republicans, I'm not suprised at this...

Pushing trumped up charges against minorities is common in Republican states, and considering that these Republicans had to be voted in, I'm not at all surprised that a jury found her guilty.

[suffragette]

88. They used a discredited 17th century test to help 'prove' their charges.

It's like a modern day Salem witch trial.


http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2015/02/purvi_patel_feticide_why_did_the_pathologist_use_the_discredited_lung_float.html

There’s another reason Patel’s case deserves scrutiny. It has to do with how the prosecution went about establishing the fetus’s condition upon birth. At the center of its presentation was a method that involved removing the fetus’s lungs and placing them in a container of liquid in order to see if they would float. The theory behind the method, which was developed during the 17th century but has been questioned by modern medical experts, holds that if a lung does float, it means the baby drew at least one breath of air before expiring, and that if it sinks, the fetus was already dead by the time it left the womb.

~~~

It’s far from clear, however, that the test can be trusted.

“It’s an absolutely discredited test,” said Gregory Davis, a professor of pathology and laboratory medicine at the University of Kentucky. “It boggles my mind that in the 21st century … this test is still being relied upon to determine whether a baby is born alive or dead.”

Davis is not the only forensic pathologist who believes the float test is unreliable. The most recent edition of Knight’s Forensic Pathology, a widely used textbook, says “there are too many recorded instances when control tests have shown that stillborn lungs may float and the lungs from undoubtedly live-born infants have sunk, to allow it to be used in testimony in a criminal trial.” The authors of another textbook, Essentials of Forensic Medicine, called the test “pointless” in 1984.



From the same article, this is being used elsewhere and resulted in another woman being jailed for 9 months before the same bogus test was disproved.

Well worth reading the full article at the link.

Scary times.

[melm00se]

90. there are a few facts that the OPs article does not include

which makes the case a difficult one for the defense:

1) there was testimony that indicated that the defendant was only 2 months pregnant. The pathologist who did the postmortem examination stated that the fetus was just over 6 months old (1 is viable, the other is not). This coincides with the attending physicians examination and concern that the authorities might/would find a living baby.

2) the same pathologist during the postmortem examination, determined that the fetus' lungs contained air (not amniotic fluid) which indicated that the fetus took at least 1 breath (and potentially more) which appears to call into question the claim of a stillbirth.

this was a sad and messy case where there is no clear winner or loser.

[cali]

91. sorry. no. first of all, regarding the latter point, the test has been deemed completely

bogus.

Furthermore, the charges conflicted. If feticide, than the fetus was killed in the womb and obviously not viable.

[LittleBlue]

94. Thanks for the info

I had read the same things, but didn't know whether this pathologist is a crazy winger or quack.

[gollygee]

97. I guess "innocent until proven guilty" and "I'd rather see 100 guilty people go free .. .

than one innocent person go to prison" only works for rapists?

The test is ridiculous and doesn't prove anything. There is no evidence it wasn't stillborn.