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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPublicly the FBI called him a terrorist. In private, agents said he was a "retarded fool." How the
FBI preys on the mentally ill and poor to create terrorists.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/16/howthefbicreatedaterrorist/
In these cases, the FBI says paid informants and undercover agents are foiling attacks before they occur. But the evidence suggests and a recent Human Rights Watch report on the subject illustrates that the FBI isnt always nabbing would-be terrorists so much as setting up mentally ill or economically desperate people to commit crimes they could never have accomplished on their own.
At least in Osmakacs case, FBI agents seem to agree with that criticism, though they never intended for that admission to become public. In the Osmakac sting, the undercover FBI agent went by the pseudonym Amir Jones. Hes the guy behind the camera in Osmakacs martyrdom video. Amir, posing as a dealer who could provide weapons, wore a hidden recording device throughout the sting.
The device picked up conversations, including, apparently, back at the FBIs Tampa Field Office, a gated compound beneath the flight path of Tampa International Airport, among agents and employees who assumed their words were private and protected. These unintentional recordings offer an exclusive look inside an FBI counterterrorism sting, and suggest that, even in the eyes of the FBI agents involved, these sting targets arent always the threatening figures they are made out to be.
Octafish
(55,745 posts)Geez. Next thing you'll want the FBI to stop planning the terror, too, I suppose?
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/02/26/fbi-manufacture-plots-terrorism-isis-grave-threats/
valerief
(53,235 posts)Same goes with terrorists. If terrorists don't exist, they have to invent them.
Eric Stratton
(19 posts)The FBI recruited this kid, the first FBI contact happened when he was a minor and the FBI "lost" the recording of the initial contact. The FBI managed this kid, gave him money, paid his rent, directed all of his "terror" activities, and impressed him with a demonstration all as a means to build his self-esteem as a means to manipulate him into doing something that the FBI could construe as a terror act.
The whole objective of the FBI was to find a patsy they could use as a patsy to take the fall for a "terror plot" they invented so the FBI could claim a victory in Portland; thereby, frightening the public and increasing pressure on the City Council to rejoin the FBI Joint Terror Task Force which was abandoned by the City of Portland because of the demand by the FBI for resources and unfettered access without any transparency.
The ploy worked. An ignorant marginalized kid now sits in prison and the FBI continues to operate in Portland with impunity.
The WIKI article has been significantly "managed" but the original reporting still exists and paints a very clear pattern of media manipulation and manufacturing of public opinion.
The fact remains that the only independent action this stupid marginalized kid took of his own volition was to send some emails that were quickly intercepted by the FBI. Every other "terror" activity he took was invented and manipulated by the FBI. The kid needed counselling and supervision but....clearly....the FBI needed a "Victory on Terror" more.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Portland_car_bomb_plot
Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)But yea, the first Trade Center attack was helped by the FBI. They're ALWAYS making new terrorist for job security. And how did McVeigh plant explosives in a Federal building???????
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Don't think he did.
Working at a lakeside campground near McVeigh's old Army post, he and Nichols constructed an ANNM explosive device mounted in the back of a rented Ryder truck. The bomb consisted of about 5,000 pounds (2,300 kg) of ammonium nitrate and nitromethane.
On April 19, 1995, McVeigh drove the truck to the front of the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building just as its offices opened for the day. Before arriving, he stopped to light a two minute fuse. At 09:02, a large explosion destroyed the north half of the building. The explosion killed 168 people, including nineteen children in the day care center on the second floor, and injured 450 others.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh#Oklahoma_City_bombing
Thor_MN
(11,843 posts)They were never "in" the building, except as they ripped through the wall.
Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)msanthrope
(37,549 posts)He got 40 years for his threats. ..but we are all supposed to forget that because GG doesn't want to talk about Dilma.....
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)to keep the MIC greed-heads fat and happy, laughing all the way to
the bank with fat moneybags, happy their never-ending 'war on terrah'
is keeping US tax dollars over-flowing into MIC coffers.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Arrested in 2012, Osmakac had been under surveillance by the FBI since at least 2010, but the agency began to monitor him more closely after he made a failed attempt to buy guns from people he thought were selling drugs in St. Petersburg. An undercover agent was assigned to test how far Osmakac was willing to go by posing as a dealer willing to sell him weapons.
The Pinellas Park man took the bait, and he did so while being videotaped by the FBI. In what became the government's chief evidence, Osmakac met several times with the agent and an informer to discuss his plans and the weapons he wanted to purchase. He spoke repeatedly of his desire to avenge the deaths of Osama bin Laden and Anwar al-Awlaki, the U.S.-born cleric who became an influential al-Qaida leader.
Osmakac schemed to set off a car bomb outside MacDinton's, an Irish pub in South Tampa, an area he regarded as the stomping grounds of sinners and homosexuals. From there, he planned to enter the Seminole Hard Rock Hotel & Casino and take hostages, releasing them once the government agreed to free certain Muslim prisoners. Knowing that his rampage would end with him surrounded by police, he planned to detonate the suicide vest.
In one recording shown to jurors, Osmakac threatened war on non-Muslims, saying, "We will go after every one of them, their kindergartens, their shopping centers, their nightclubs, their police stations, their courthouses and everything until we have an Islamic state the whole world."
http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/jury-starts-deliberating-sami-osmakac-terrorism-case/2183695
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)but it shouldn't mean that because of lack of adequate mental health services,
that mentally ill people should be 'fair game' for NSA/CIA/FBI to entrap for an
easy bust, and to give the MIC what they need to keep justifying their getting
handed a bizzilion dollars of US taxpayer's money.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)conversation.....facts that Mr. Greenwald omits...we hear about mental illness as a defense for just plain old hatred?
Rex
(65,616 posts)Not crazy, but probably will end up burning down a church or something equivalent? I'm try to grasp this conversation here between you two. Also, what does GG have to do with this? Is that his website? The authors name is Trevor Aaronson.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)They have a track record with terror apologia.
thanks. Just what I figured, but verification is a good thing.
99th_Monkey
(19,326 posts)"Human Rights Watch report on the subject illustrates that the FBI isnt always nabbing would-be terrorists so much as setting up mentally ill or economically desperate people to commit crimes they could never have accomplished on their own.
At least in Osmakacs case, FBI agents seem to agree with that criticism, though they never intended for that admission to become public."
What is it that you don't understand about the above info (from the article linked in OP)?
Rex
(65,616 posts)I do remember a case years ago where the FBI had egg on their face for practically creating a terrorist plot out of thin air for 6 gullible people to get trapped in. I believe it was in Florida.
I am torn on this issue, on one hand I can totally see the entrapment going on. On the other, I have to question why people would let themselves (not mentally ill, normal functioning people in society) get talked into blowing up people and buildings in their own country. That's just fucked up and I wonder how many reports we DON'T hear about, where the people turned in the FBI informant - basically did the right things.
Preying on the mentally ill however is sick and disgusting no matter who or what group is doing it. I won't just dismiss the FBI casually, we all know their history and sometimes it has been great (civil rights movement) and sometimes it's been downright shitty (all the files kept on progressives/minorities by J. Edgar).
uhnope
(6,419 posts)All magazine articles require a process of selecting the facts to present and how to present them. This article could be largely true, but I have no way to know that since I don't trust the Greenwald spin that will be on all First Look articles. The article could very well be cherrypicking comments from thousands of hours of commentary to construct its point of view that Greenwald pushes--you know, the USA is always wrong in everything it does, evil forces are listening to all private conversations, etc., while it omits details that don't fit that agenda (as you have pointed out.)
It's indisputable (to me) that the FBI went too far in some of these case. But I'll take that analysis from a source that has less agenda that the Greenwald media, thank you.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)The same guys who then pat themselves on the back for catching him?
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)The main redeeming quality of this program is that it makes cannon fodder harder to recruit.
Even cannon fodder will now be extra-suspicious of anyone who tries to recruit them. Which makes actual recruiters' jobs harder.
Rex
(65,616 posts)They see the FBI arrest some fellow wannabe jihadists, so now they are driven even more to hurt America. Perhaps they go out and find a group that is not an FBI operation, but a true terrorist group that is off the FBIs radar. I just question if this spurns cannon fodder on more or it scares them off in droves, like you suggest.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Well done, LA, well done.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)And the propaganda that the FBI was protecting the gays is as ludicrous a notion that we invaded Afghanistan (in part) to protect them there wimmins folk.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)I find it rather interesting that your source chose to omit salient facts about the nature of the crime.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)exposed by "my source."
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)Look....the jury heard from 6 mental health experts and still convicted him because when you have a "disorder" that doesn't mean you aren't legally sane. And who gives a crap what the FBI agents thought about his mental health? They aren't mental health professionals. Heck......6 mental health pros couldn't come up with majority vote on which disorder this guy supposedly has.
You can have a "disorder" and still be legally culpable. And entrapment? I'm thinking the Lady Gaga incident sort of blows that one out of the water.
What you have is a guy who is a loser, who was cruising for trouble and he found it. He's back terrorist. ...an inept one, certainly.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)I haven't been keeping close watch on the news lately because I've been so infuriated by the antics of Senate Republicans.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)there to be anti-gay douches....violence occurred.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)"He and a preacher got into it outside a Lady Gaga concert."
That sounds ... interesting.
Were they fighting to see which one could condemn the "homosexuals" more vigorously, or were they arguing over which method to use?
gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Our society says that when you hit the age of 18, you're an adult in just about every respect except drinking. You can legally sign a contract (even if you can't read it), be held responsible for any tortious or criminal act, and generally be subject to all facets of the law. There's nothing really magical about the age of 18; I've known 14-year-olds who were quite sophisticated in their understanding of any number of things. I've known 35-year-olds I wouldn't trust around the corner with a piece of string, lest they hurt themselves or others.
But for good or ill, our society says if you're 18, you're an adult. Neuroscience says that our brains continue to develop for another seven years or so, and development of crucial critical reasoning skills is often delayed well into our 20s. The military understands this very well, aiming their recruiting pitch toward young men and women designed to appeal to these not-yet-mature brains in ways that can convince young people that they are capable of having a lasting impact on the world. Likewise, the FBI likes enticing young men with promises that their dissatisfaction with the way things are in the world can be translated into effective, concrete action that will change the world for the better. It's no accident or coincidence so many of these terrorist stings feature young men who were identified and targeted between the ages of 18 to 22.
This doesn't make us safer, but it sure does impress a certain segment of our population with thrilling tales of catastrophe averted at the last moment by the Fidelity, Bravery and Integrity of our faultless, heroic g-men.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)snooper2
(30,151 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)that the U.S. government should use its resources to lead the mentally ill into plotting crimes, no matter what there political bent, in order to imprison them for 40 years?
LiberalFighter
(50,504 posts)they make it easier for real threats to occur.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)WillyT
(72,631 posts)uhnope
(6,419 posts)All magazine articles require a process of selecting the facts to present and how to present them. This article could be largely true, but I have no way to know that since I don't trust the Greenwald spin that will be on all First Look articles. The article could very well be cherrypicking comments from thousands of hours of commentary to construct its point of view that Greenwald pushes--you know, the USA is always wrong in everything it does, evil forces are listening to all private conversations, etc etc.
It's indisputable (to me) that the FBI went too far in some of these case. But I'll take that analysis from a source that has less agenda that the Greenwald media, thank you.
rocktivity
(44,555 posts)Last edited Mon Mar 30, 2015, 01:00 AM - Edit history (2)
This has been going on for quite a while, actually:
Informant who ensnared Bronx terror suspects avoided by nearly everyone else at Newburgh mosque
...Driving a silver Hummer or black Mercedes-Benz, Shahed (Malik) Hussain arrived at the Masjid al-Ikhlas mosque Friday mornings and stayed for hours...trying to chat up those who seemed to be down on their luck. He offered meals, jobs and advice on how to get rich...He was...(t)oo friendly. And that's what made everyone nervous..."We would go to the person after he talked to them, and tell them to stay away," (a) worshiper...said...
James Cromitie, accused ringleader of the gang bent on bombing Riverdale synagogues and shooting down a plane, didn't listen - possibly seduced by Hussain's bankroll. "James for some reason didn't stay away from him," Abdulwaly said. "James had no money. The longer James stayed and spoke to him, the more money James had."
After busting (Hussain) in April 2003 for scamming illegal immigrants trying to get driver's licenses...the FBI asked (him) to infiltrate the inner circle of Masjid As-Salam, a storefront Albany mosque that had been on the agency's radar since 9/11. His work led to...2006 conviction(s) on terror-linked money-laundering charges...
"None of these men had money for this," Muhammad said. "Who paid for this? The informant. The informant was buying these (explosives). The informant is the one who drove these guys around."
More:
http://democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3891015
rocktivity