5 years probation for a Gang Rape---Man this is fucked up!

[trumad]

SANFORD — A 16-year-old former Winter Springs High School football player today pleaded guilty to gang rape and was placed on probation for five years.

He is the first of five co-defendants to enter a plea or go to trial in the highly-charged case. According to prosecution records, he did the least harm to the 16-year-old girl, quickly stopping when she told him, "No."

He along with four others team members were arrested after the girl emerged from a patch of woods near the school Nov. 13, in tears, telling a friend that several high school boys had gang raped her.

The suspects told police either they had not taken part or that the sex was consensual.

The defendant who entered his plea today was one of three to be charged as juveniles and faced a maximum sentence of being confined to a juvenile facility until age 19.

Today's plea was a surprise. The teenager, who lives in Sanford, was scheduled to appear in court tomorrow, but attorneys moved his hearing up a day.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-winter-springs-high-rape-plea-20150316-story.html

[Laurian]

1. Fucked up is right.

Like Steubenville never happened. Change is a long time coming....jocks still skate.

[Yo_Mama]

24. He is charged as a juvenile (15 at commission) and this extends supervision past juvenile

limits.

Supposedly he stopped when the girl told him to stop. It's probably justified.

[LisaL]

48. If the girl is being gang raped, does she have to tell "NO" to each attacker individually?

He couldn't figure it otherwise?

[Nye Bevan]

2. It's almost like different rules apply for football players (nt)

[trumad]

3. I don't think football had anything to do with this.

[Shrike47]

4. The article refers to him as a former football player. He was and is a juvenile.

He is now a potential witness against the other four. It all makes sense to me.

[Sarcastica]

14. I was thinking the same thing. I hope he made a deal to testify against the others.

His testimony can go along way should the others try to say the sex was consensual.

Hopefully, the prosecution made the deal in concert with the victim.

[Brickbat]

6. What the fuck is this shit right here?

[arcane1]

7. The same loser. He fantasizes all day about hating black people and posts it here.

Because only a true superior intellect would spend all their waking moments thinking about what they hate most

[B Calm]

8. Gone now!

[cyberswede]

10. Just scrape it off your shoe.

The dude spends waaaay too much time trying to disrupt here. Most of his shit goes *poof* before anyone can read it. Sad, really.

[gerogie2]

9. These are minors...

I don't subscribe to the lock 'em up and throw away the key for teenagers. Their minds are still developing and they should be given a chance at reform.

[Beaverhausen]

12. BULLSHIT!!! They knew exactly what they were doing was wrong

jesus christ, spare me.

[gerogie2]

13. You're an emotional person

Thankfully the judge took everything into account and handed down an appropriate sentence for a minor. What makes you think probation and counseling won't be effective rather then spending $50k per year warehousing the child?

[Beaverhausen]

16. Where does it say he will get counseling?

You need some.

[Calista241]

17. It says the guy stopped when she told him to.

And more than likely, the prosecutor secured his testimony against the other perps.

[LisaL]

54. Stopping when the woman says "no" might work in a date situation.

But in a gang rape situation? He couldn't figure out it wasn't a good idea to start whatever it is he was doing?

[Jenoch]

96. My guess is that

during the investigation it was discovered that this perp actually did stop when told no and the victim corroborated. They needed one of them to testify against the others. It is likely they then took his statement and shared it with the victim and she must have agreed with it or they would not have given the deal to him. I think he should at least have to do many hours of community service as well, but I don't know what tge Florida laws are.

[Laurian]

15. What?

Should the victim just say, "oh, that's okay, you're still developing"? What about her trauma. Sorry, 16 is plenty old enough to know not to rape.

Nobody suggested he be locked up and the key thrown away, but there should be some real consequences for his actions.

[nomorenomore08]

18. I would say hold him till he's 21 or so - at the least - and monitor him closely.

Even then, he's still a potential risk to others.

[Yo_Mama]

26. Maximum sentence would be detention until 19.

So this deal actually provides longer supervision.

Also, a rapist that stops when so instructed by the victim is perhaps not so twisted as you appear to be assuming. One can see how prosecutor and judge might perceive that to be a relevant fact about assessing his degree of danger to the public at this time and rehabilitative potential.

It's shocking, he was participating with the group. I grant you that. He does not deserve to walk and he hasn't.

[nomorenomore08]

27. Very true. n/t

[LisaL]

50. Not if he were to be tried as an adult.

I don't exactly understand what DA is doing here. He offered 3 of the accused very lenient plea deals. Including a supposed mastermind (different guy from the one that accepted a deal).
The other two he plans to try as adults (even though they are not yet 18). I don't understand this logic here. Shouldn't mastermind, at the very least, be tried as an adult?

[Yo_Mama]

65. To direct file in Florida the perp must be at least 16 at the time of the offense, right?

This one wasn't. I think the judge would have had to approve the transfer or perhaps indictment. Both perhaps unlikely if he stopped. For some serious crimes it is non-discretionary, but I think the 15 year old (now 16) was destined to stay in juvenile court.

For the others, I am not sure why. They all seem to have been older.

It may be due to weakness in evidence/testimony. It seems like the prosecutor is trying to get them to plead guilty by using the threat of direct file against two of the older ones, and charging the two he thinks he can really convict as as adults.

This may have started as a consensual encounter between the girl and her friend, with the the friend having told the other boys to show up, and then proceeded to get wild. But it may be one of those things that is difficult in front of jury, especially with young defendants, and potentially very traumatic to the victim.

Just the fact that this one stopped when she told him "No" raises a doubt as to what he thought it was. You have to prove intent - intent to rape, to assault.

[LisaL]

67. She recorded part of the incident on video, telling the suspects NO.

"The girl's video, recorded in two segments, does not show the sex acts, but its audio captured her telling the boys, "No," and saying she wanted to return to school."
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-gang-rape-winter-springs-high-20150120-story.html

[Yo_Mama]

73. I am not questioning that the girl was sexually assaulted by a group of boys. She was.

It's a terrible story. I was trying to address what may be the prosecutor's strategy.

[LisaL]

93. I am thinking prosecutor has DNA evidence on the two charged as adults, but not on the others?

Otherwise I can't understand his logic.

[gerogie2]

19. More emotional trap clap

I believe in reform for people under the age of 21. You must be republican that wants to lock up minors at a cost of $50k per year for no reason.

[gollygee]

21. FOR NO REASON???

Is that what you think about rape? Holy shit.

[BainsBane]

92. And that is why rape is so common and rapists rarely prosecuted.

[Laurian]

22. No. I am a retired woman who experienced sexual assault while in college.

To flippantly call me a Republican is really, really low.

[Jamastiene]

45. Don't let it bother you.

That person has a really messed up sense of right and wrong. Rape is not "no reason" as they claimed. Rape is a heinous crime.

[BainsBane]

100. He was banned, Laurian

Thank you for helping to expose him.

[Laurian]

102. Good to know. I was pretty stunned by his attitude and

just had to get away from that thread. Thanks for the update.

[nomorenomore08]

28. The guy did participate in a gang rape. That's not exactly "no reason." n/t

[Egnever]

31. Did he?

Article says he stopped when she said no.

[trumad]

33. stop what...sticking it in?

He participated in Fucking gang rape.

[Egnever]

34. Seems neither of us knows

Pretty silly to sentence someone to years in jail when you don't even know what part he played.

[trumad]

35. He admitted to participating in a gang rape.

We do know.

[Egnever]

37. No we know he took a plea deal.

Other than that we don't know much.

[trumad]

40. He pled guilty to a gang rape.

Did he or did he not?

[Egnever]

43. He took a deal.

Did he or did he not?

[trumad]

46. Did he plead guilty?

Answer the simple fucking question.

[Egnever]

51. Good lord

What clownish responses. Enjoy getting your rage on you clearly cant discuss this rationally.

[trumad]

55. Yep...I knew you'd pull that card.

You won't answer the question because the answer destroys your whole defense of the little shmuck who participated in the rape of a 16 year old girl.

So I'll answer for you. He pled guilty to the crime.

Goodbye.

[Egnever]

59. Aren't you clever!

[1StrongBlackMan]

64. While I understand what you are saying ...

Pleading guilty to a crime does not mean you are guilty of that crime.

[trumad]

70. He pled guilty to being involved with a gang rape.

He was there..let it happen...and kept quiet until he was caught.

[1StrongBlackMan]

74. Okay. n/t

[trumad]

30. For no fucking reason!!!

Did you really just write that?

[Jamastiene]

44. Rape is "no reason" to you.

I got news for you. Rape is a heinous crime. He committed a crime. Let him do his time, if you can quit coddling him long enough.

[nomorenomore08]

87. +1

[Lancero]

62. Jury Results - Leave it, 2-5

Sad state of affairs that a jury left this rape apologist crap stand.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

79. do you still have the results and could you post it, if you do. I would like to read the alert

message and juror's comments. Thanks.

[Lancero]

80. Wasn't the first who sent it in, just got the notification that it'd been alerted on previously.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

81. okay, thanks. eom.

[LanternWaste]

75. What precisely leads you to believe his sentencing is predicated on "no reason?" You seem emotional.

What precisely leads you to believe his sentencing is predicated on "no reason?"

You seem both emotional and irrational, regardless of whether you're a republican or not...

[BainsBane]

94. Violating a girl in a gang rape is not "no reason"

and while you may think the life of that girl and all this man's future victims not worth $50k a year, the majority of Democratic voters are actually women who imagine their lives to be worth something. To call someone a Republican for wanting to see a rapist prosecuted is nonsensical. Amazingly, the GOP is not the party of women's rights, and your views of rape far more closely align with theirs than does the other poster you insulted.

"Emotional clap trap": Calling rape "no reason" is hardly based on reason or free from emotion. Quite the opposite. The statement requires an intense level of negative emotion.

25 percent of women in this country are raped, and only 3 percent of rapists ever do jail time. Seeing that as a problem is not "emotional clap trap." Rather, it is a civil rights issue based on the idea of women as citizens and human beings whose lives matter.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

95. Send ALERT to ADMINS...

I just did.

[cyberswede]

97. That rape apologist was banned by Skinner.

MIR Team (Skinner) banned gerogie2

Mail Message
Reason:
Previously banned rape apologist.

http://www.democraticunderground.com?com=profile&uid=310233&sub=trans

Real name:
DU Member for: 1 years, 3 months, 15 days
Posts: 450
Recommendations: 0
Star member: No

[BainsBane]

98. OMG, thank goodness!

First thing I did when I signed on was to check his status and he was still active. So glad Skinner acted.
Thanks to everyone who sent the admin alerts.

[seabeyond]

99. a little ray of sunshine, with all this rape acceptance, jokes, 11 yr old girls, gang raped 16 yr ol

yea

[A-Schwarzenegger]

105. Excellent.

[smirkymonkey]

25. +1000

This. I can't believe some people on this site.

[Laffy Kat]

66. Absolutely agree with you, Laurian.

This shit is NOT going to stop unless the law begins to take it seriously and hand down appropriate penalties. This is about the girl. Period. Hopefully, she has input into the rapists' sentencing, albeit confidential input for the sake of her privacy and protection.

And BTW, I have two boys, 16 & 21, and you'd better believe their frontal lobes are developed enough to know rape is WRONG.

[nomorenomore08]

88. Shit, even at *12* I'm pretty sure I would've known better than to join my "friends"

in gang-raping someone.

[Egnever]

29. What would be appropriate?

[trumad]

32. A couple of years in jail!

Poor girl has a lifetime of having to deal with this horror. Certainly a couple of years in jail would be sufficient for this little turd.

[Comrade Grumpy]

36. How about 30 years in jail?

That's what two other minors in the case who are being tried as adults are facing.

Two other minors are looking at being held until they are 19. A year or two.

I guess the juvenile justice system is a picky, choosy kind of thing.

[gerogie2]

38. Trying minors as adults is cruel and unusal.

I'm sorry I have worked with kids that did armed robberies that turned their life around and became productive members of societies with beautiful families. Destroying a minors life for an immature and implosive act is not helpful to society. IMHO.

[trumad]

41. Raping a 16 year old girl is beyond cruel....

It's monstrous.

[NM_Birder]

84. and deserves the death penalty, in my opinion.

[trumad]

85. Knock it off...

Now you're just trolling me.

[Egnever]

42. Agreed

I don't know enough about the circumstances to make a judgement what is appropriate in this case. I do know I did stupid shit when I was young, I am lucky to be alive today with some of the stunts I pulled and even luckier that I never got anyone else hurt. I cant imagine being punished today still for the mistakes I made when I was a kid 30 years ago.

My heart goes out to the girl to be sure and I hope she gets whatever help she can to deal with what happened.

[trumad]

47. So you did something worse than raping a 16 year old girl?

Really?

[Egnever]

49. Try harder!

[Rex]

56. You compare stunts to rape? Really?

How does doing stupid shit and raping a women even fall into the same realm with you? I hope you mean stuff like racing cars drunk or something of that nature.

[trumad]

58. dudes been arguing up and down the thread

With this type of shit. Unreal.

[Rex]

91. I'm probably on ignore.

Rape is like stunts. You read it here on a progressive forum first. NOT FR or stormfront. Democratic Underground. You know who else pretends such vile shit is just stunts? Rush Limpballs. Maybe this is just a big prank to said poster. Just disgusting.

STUNTS.

[Egnever]

39. Average time served for rape is 5 years

According to the google hive mind.

[LisaL]

52. Very, very picky.

What gives here?
Two charged as adults. The other three offered lenient plea deals as juveniles, including the guy who according to the OP is accused of masterminding the whole thing.
Doesn't add up to me.

[Rex]

53. I real punishment? Probation is not really restitution for raping a woman

is it? What do you think?

[niyad]

57. once again, proof that females simply do not count--all hail the damned football

players.

[Thespian2]

60. Yep, trumad

these bastards did a very wrong attack on a female. In Florida. Where the authorities don't give one shit about human beings who are not them. After all, she is just a female, and all Republicans know that being a female is detrimental to your health. Why, after all should a female be concerned if she is raped by a group of ignorant bastards. If she should become pregnant and have a child, Rick Santorum will gladly adopt the child and support it through to adulthood.

Personal opinion? Hang them up by their balls.

[hrmjustin]

61. I am a rape survivor and I am appalled that these boys are not going to jail.

The court is saying a big fuck you and get over it to the victim.

This is what rape culture looks like.

[Oklahoma_Liberal]

63. If this same 15 year old had murdered someone

I suspect some of these same DUers crying for harsher punishment would be whining for leniency. Funny, that.

[LisaL]

68. How can it get any more lenient? He didn't get any jail time.

[LanternWaste]

76. I think you're confusing "suspect" and "wish validation."

"I suspect some of these same DUers..."

I think you're confusing "suspect" and "wish validation."

[mercuryblues]

69. This sentence

has very deep roots in misogyny. Women have been called sluts, whores, vamps and more. They have been degraded to the point where they are systematically not considered to have the same value as men. If they are beaten and raped, what were they doing there. If they were drugged and raped, why did she trust them. If she had a few drinks and was raped, she shouldn't have been drinking. Everything said is to mitigate a rapists criminal responsibility. Then people are surprised when rapists get nothing more than a slap on their wrists with a white glove.

Even the defense that when she said no, he stopped raping her is being used to defend his heinous act. Did he stop the others? Did he say NO way when the ring leader hatched the plan. Did he call the police? No. Even afterwards he did not go to the police and confess. He continued on, as nothing happened until the police arrested him. He accepted a deal that benefits him, after the fact, after they got caught. YAY! But there is still a young woman who was raped and she must simply learn how to "deal with it."

When women say that men need to take a stand against rape, they get blasted as hating men. Because you know not *all men* are rapists. Of course not all men are rapists. *Some* men truly do combat rape culture. But in all seriousness how many men take a stand and against the use of words like whore, slut, bitch and every other derogatory term used to describe women in an effort to diminish their worth? Just in the last week or so the use of the word whore has been justified on this board at least 3X's. Words like that directly contribute to light sentences for rape. Even if they are used to describe something or someone else. The underlying meaning and context is still there. It still devalues a woman's humanity. To the point where rape test kits are rotting in storage by the 100,000's of thousands. To the point where police say things like "call the police we can't unrape you" To the point where some police rape women. To the point where an SVU cop attempts to rape a woman all his punishment is losing his vacation and demoted.

Still *some* people refuse to believe how using derogatory terms for females and their anatomy has any negative outcome. They were just kidding, quoting an article. Toughen up you bitches. You take things too seriously. I am truly sorry that I can't laugh at your joking around and ignore it. My personal safety depends on fighting it.

[trumad]

71. Awesome post. .

Some above are making this kid out to be innocent because he didn't continue the assault...the conveniently leave out everything else.

[mercuryblues]

72. thank you

Just about everyone here laughs at the "trickle down" economic theory. Some fail to grasp the same for a woman's safety. The true change starts at the grass roots and works their way up the system. Even if all people don't agree with this, the change in culture would be substantial. No longer will rape apologist feel comfortable placing the blame on the victim. No longer will criminals be able to have their actions minimized. Giving judges and prosecutors room to give such blatantly light sentences.

[trumad]

78. I'm completely flummoxed about the did not cause as much harm...

reason as to why the kid only got probation. That girl is harmed for life because of what this kid did and his pack of jackasses.

[NCTraveler]

82. Would need to know a lot more but I can see how that would be "acceptable".

Five years is one third of his current life. It will also mark his record. If the other "boys", including the ring-leader decide to go to trial, I am hoping there is an agreement in place for this person to testify against the others. It appears two of the older "boys" have yet to decide their direction within the system. I am also hoping there is some form of counseling that goes along with his sentence.

What do you think his sentence should be? You have stated that it is fucked up that a fifteen year old is sentenced to five years probation without stating what isn't fucked up. Every bit of it sounds fucked up to me.

[trumad]

83. He needs to spend at least a year or tow in a detention center...

Probation only for participating in a gang bang rape is insane.

[NCTraveler]

86. I don't think it is insane, but I also don't disagree with your assessment.

I don't think they are all that far off. I would be completely behind the detention center idea if I know more about the detention center or if our punitive system was fundamentally changed. I see know way, without serious counseling and rehab in a detention center, he would come out anything more than a stunted adult with worse issues than when he went in. I am not in total disagreement with you. I would just like to see him helped. The thought of helping him might anger some, but without help, it will just generate future victims of his.

[nomorenomore08]

89. "Without help, it will just generate future victims of his."

My more optimistic side wholeheartedly agrees with this. But there's also the possibility he'll re-offend even with "help."

Either way, at 16 there's probably more hope of rehabilitating him than there would be at, say, 21.

[flvegan]

90. I almost had an actual response to this.

Then said, nevermind. I'm giving up suffering fools gladly for Lent. Or something.

[get the red out]

101. It won't be long

Until the victim automatically goes to jail, at this rate.

[whathehell]

103. Sanford, Florida?...Isn't this the same place Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin

and got away with it?

It must be one horrible, right wing place!

[H2O Man]

104. Unreal.

I find the report in the OP, as well as a few of the responses here, to be troubling.

First, rape is a serious crime. It is an assault on one's person-hood: body and mind. It damages the victim, their family and friends, the fabric of their community.

The young man in question didn't simply make a small mistake or do something stupid -- and it really is a teenager's job to make mistakes, and do stupid things, from time to time. Were it otherwise, what challenges could parents and school teachers look forward to? The teens' ability to mix insight and intelligence, with a few cup fulls of stupidity, never ceases to amaze me.

I've raised my children -- two boys and two girls -- who are all above average intelligence. To various extents, each provided me with some mighty complex challenges. Lots of nieces and nephews. In social work, I dealt with hundreds of kids.

In that experience, I've never met a kid who did not know right from wrong, especially in the context of damaging another person. Rape and gang rape are not things that one makes an honest mistake in doing.

I don't know how many times I've heard a kid attempt to justify, for example, stealing a car for an afternoon by saying, "Yeah, I knew it was wrong. But it seemed like a fun idea, and besides, no one got hurt."

We know that the part of the brain most closely connected with grasping future consequences doesn't fully develop, until around age 24. But that part that knows right from wrong surely has.

In my opinion, that sentence is terrible. What's more, the same type of thinking that the court used in reaching it, can be found in some of the responses to the OP. That's a shame.