Being White Means Never Having to Say You're Sorry

[KamaAina]

http://www.newrepublic.com/article/121309/oklahoma-frat-and-ferguson-shooter-expose-racial-double-standard

Protests against racist policing practices in Ferguson, Missouri and all throughout this country have largely been peaceful. Yet the shooting of two Ferguson police officers last week—a shooting that has not been clearly associated with the protests—has been used to discredit an entire movement, to cast a whole wave of social justice activism as violent and sinister.

A few states away, in Oklahoma, a video showing a white American fraternity chapter singing with reportedly drunken glee about how excluding and enacting violence on black men has laid bare anew a core truth about race in America: being white means never having to say you’re sorry.

The actions of the University of Oklahoma Sigma Alpha Epsilon brothers have resulted in the university cutting ties with the fraternity, but for the most part, the focus has been on the men in the video. Not on their fraternity brothers, or on other chapters of the fraternity, or on the gender- and race-exclusive institution of Greek life. For a largely black protest movement, the ripples of damage spread, touching the entire body of the movement. For the white men of SAE, the laws of physics are different, and the ripples don’t spread in the same way. The conservative gospel of “individual responsibility” is, in this case, a luxury that white people enjoy, but that black people are denied....

When white people misbehave, however, they rarely represent more than themselves, even when they're members of an organization like, say, SAE. But just the responsibility of being held accountable for how one's individual behavior and thoughts is still too great for so many of the white people who have been caught out engaging in racist behavior. They are routinely defended with excuses of inebriation, misspeaking, and unintentional bigotry. Even then, being white often means doing wrong without the perception of bringing your entire race into enough disrepute that it has consequences for you. This is what privilege is: to speak and act only for yourself, and even then only when you feel like it.

[whathehell]

1. In Oklahoma, at least..

though those fraternity assholes said "I'm sorry" and were justifiably MADE to be

sorry Right Quick.

Otherwise, it's an unfortunate by- product of being in the Majority..Being in the

majority means you are the "default" race and therefore tend to "represent" yourself

or whatever minority sub-group you might belong to.

If they were in the minority, they'd be saying "I'm sorry" a LOT.

[CBGLuthier]

78. When the texan who made the remarks gave his half-ass apology it was back in Texas where he is from

Please be sure to smear the correct state as we all know some of these states are soooo fucking better than others and totally free of arrogant racists.

[whathehell]

79. Yeah, because none of us could ever confuse an enlightened state like Texas

with the uber-progressive Oklahoma.

"Smearing" my ass. These states smear themselves with their

own backward policies.

[Romeo.lima333]

2. Student Who Led Racist SAE Chant Apologizes

"It was wrong and reckless," says Parker Rice in apology letter which blames alcohol consumption for incident.
http://www.bet.com/news/national/2015/03/14/student-who-led-racist-sae-chant-apologizes.html

[LanternWaste]

4. An apology predicated on alcohol is less an apology...

An apology predicated on alcohol is less an apology...

[Romeo.lima333]

32. it wasnt a drunken apology although an apology is an apology drunken or not. here's more

i know everyone wants to know why or how this happened. I admit it likely was fueled by alcohol consumed at the house before the bus trip, but that’s not an excuse. Yes, the song was taught to us, but that too doesn’t work as an explanation. It’s more important to acknowledge what I did and what I didn’t do. I didn’t say no, and I clearly dismissed an important value I learned at my beloved high school, Dallas Jesuit. We were taught to be ‘Men for Others.’ I failed in that regard, and in those moments, I also completely ignored the core values and ethics I learned from my parents and others."

[Skittles]

77. I have never gone on a drunken racist rant in all my days

I do believe you have to harbor some racist feelings for them to be let loose is such a glorious fashion after you've had a few

[NaturalHigh]

5. Is this "Hate on white people" week?

[cyberswede]

6. How on earth is this article "hating on white people?"

[NaturalHigh]

9. You mean besides the title?

Replace "white" with any other color and see how quickly it's hidden.

[cyberswede]

11. You're comparing apples and oranges

The title would make no sense for any group other than white people.

Did you even read the article? If you had, I suspect you wouldn't be so butthurt.

When white people misbehave, however, they rarely represent more than themselves, even when they're members of an organization like, say, SAE. But just the responsibility of being held accountable for how one's individual behavior and thoughts is still too great for so many of the white people who have been caught out engaging in racist behavior. They are routinely defended with excuses of inebriation, misspeaking, and unintentional bigotry. Even then, being white often means doing wrong without the perception of bringing your entire race into enough disrepute that it has consequences for you. This is what privilege is: to speak and act only for yourself, and even then only when you feel like it.

[ismnotwasm]

36. Whiteness is the invisible standard against which all else is held against when it comes to race

Apparently, this isn't clear as pure fresh water to some people, as it should be, being glaringly apparent.

[phil89]

64. Nice meaningless assertion.

Can you support it with any evidence or arguments??

[nomorenomore08]

65. The entire history of this country, past and present?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

49. Who made the shooting of the Ferguson police officers a matter of collective guilt?

[cyberswede]

57. here

Protester charged with shooting officers in Ferguson

Ferguson Police Shooter Turns Out To Be A Protester

Ferguson police shot during protest:

He (St Louis County police chief Jon Belmar) also said he would "have to imagine" that some protesters "were among the shooters". Detectives were still investigating who was responsible, and no-one had been arrested.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

67. That's a political delineation, not a racial delineation as is made in the OP.

Plenty of whites protested what went on in Ferguson.

[Romeo.lima333]

37. agreed you dont raise one group up by bashing down another

[ismnotwasm]

39. Nobody is bashing white people.

The article points out white privledge

[NaturalHigh]

63. Kind of the same thing.

[cyberswede]

92. Not at all.

It's not "bashing white people" to point out systematic advantages that the group as a whole benefits from, through no fault of their own (and irrespective of each individual's experiences).

Your assertion betrays your clear inability (or unwillingness) to grasp the concept of privilege. If you understood it, you wouldn't feel the need to be defensive.

Maybe you ought to cinsider why your position on this issue is similar to that of banned trolls.

[NaturalHigh]

96. Cool story - your failure to use the spell check feature aside.

[cyberswede]

97. I didn't think you'd have a substantive reply.

Thanks for living down to my expectations.

And I'm a shitty typist.

[NaturalHigh]

98. I think it was the reply that your post deserved.

At some point if you feel like putting your snarkiness, insulting attitude, and "troll" insinuations aside, I would be willing to have a serious conversation with you. You might start with the realization that not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll.

[geek tragedy]

7. yes, white people are always the real victims nt

[geek tragedy]

34. "These anti-white posts"

[CANDO]

42. Threads

But threads are also called an OP, or Original Post. So yeah, I'm guessing they're interchangeable. I meant OP but called it a post. And of course it is a post.

[geek tragedy]

47. .

[cyberswede]

40. well

A. this isn't an anti-white thread
B. "why these incessant threads are scattered throughout DU" - because it's a topic of interest to some DUers. If you don't like to read threads about race, don't read them. Easy

[cyberswede]

46. It's not an anti-white thread.

You must not have read the article.

[ismnotwasm]

44. Progressive whites should have enough racial sensitivity

If not ethnic historical education, not to have knee jerk "but I'm not like that" responses to posts about white privledge. There's no need to be defensive if one is an ally.

WHAT anti-white posts?

[cyberswede]

48. yep

Worth repeating:

Progressive whites should have enough racial sensitivity not to have knee jerk "but I'm not like that" responses to posts about white privilege.

[CANDO]

55. On the contrary

When there are daily barrages of threads that point out how horrible, terrible, insensitive, prejudiced, etc white people are, one has to wonder if there are people here at DU who have deep seated hatred of white people. No need to be defensive? How so? Do you think that on a daily basis you need to attack your allies? Do you think threads such as these should be posted to conservative places so as to reach the actual audience they pertain to? I certainly do!

[brush]

58. You make some good points but you're overreacting a bit

It's like the other poster said:

"Progressive whites should have enough racial sensitivity not to have knee jerk "but I'm not like that" responses to posts about white privilege."

Don't get you knickers in a twist. Discussion of these type of issues is what DU is and should be about.

Tolerance, baby.

[Number23]

69. "There's no need to be defensive if one is an ally."

Are you starting to get why there are so few minority posters here?

And why many of the ones that do remain have one foot and several toes on the other out the door?

There's no need to be defensive if one is an ally.

[Oktober]

75. Why ally with a bigot?

[Number23]

87. I have no idea what you're talking about or why you're posting to me

But I've seen enough of your posts to understand why you're so verklempt in every race thread and to understand that whatever it is that you're talking about will be likely be ill informed, ignorant and completely beneath me.

So please spare yourself the trouble and just toddle on.

[Oktober]

89. It's very simple...

I ally with folks who want to treat everyone equally and well and on their merits as a human being...

Bigots and racists need not apply as this thread clearly shows...

Cheers...

Hope that cleared it up..

[Number23]

90. Damn, can I read them or what?

I ally with folks who want to treat everyone equally and well and on their merits as a human being...

whatever it is that you're talking about will be likely be ill informed, ignorant and completely beneath me.

It's like I'm the Oracle at Delphi.

[Oktober]

94. Which part was beneath you?

Treating people well or judging them on their merits?

[AverageJoe90]

10. I dunno, but, to be truthful, I don't believe that was at all the intent with this article.

I mean, yes, there were some issues with how things were said, but I'm not exactly convinced that the author has any real prejudice against white people, either: sometimes, a mistake really is just a mistake.

[cyberswede]

13. Jesus fucking christ.

[AverageJoe90]

15. Not sure what you're getting so worked up over, cyberswede. nt

[cyberswede]

18. "I'm not exactly convinced that the author has any real prejudice against white people"

gee...ya think?

Take the fucking money.

[NaturalHigh]

20. "Sometimes, a mistake really is just a mistake."

Yeah, no doubt. There just seem to be a lot of these threads lately.

[cyberswede]

91. You know he can't reply, right?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=profile&uid=272790&sub=trans

Sometimes a troll is just a troll.

[nomorenomore08]

68. The point is that white people who screw up are judged (by the larger society) as individuals

whereas black people who screw up are seen as a negative reflection on an entire race.

You or I may not personally feel that way, but it's not about us as individuals.

[NM_Birder]

80. every week is "hate on white people week"

[Capt. Obvious]

86. AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

On Thu Mar 19, 2015, 01:12 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

every week is "hate on white people week"
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6385297

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

No it isn't. This post is a euphemism of the radical right wing talking point "anti racist is a code word for anti white". http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Anti-racist_is_a_code_word_for_anti-white

This post is flamebait/trolling, not offering a mere opinion.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Thu Mar 19, 2015, 01:26 PM, and the Jury voted 2-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: HALT CITIZEN!

Hate white people week coincides with Spring Break. If you read the rules and followed them you'd know this. Voting to hide so you'll learn how to conform to this authoritarian message board.
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Half of this thread is flaming. Not sure why the hosts haven't just locked it, but this is no worse than lots of others here.
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: The poster is obviously referring to DU in general and not society as a whole. Suggesting otherwise appears disingenuous and I'm not going to encourage alerters who rely on strawman distortions.
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: God Almighty.. Post would have led top some interesting conversation..Does everybody have to tow the EXPECTED line around here? I like the action..

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[AverageJoe90]

8. Although this article made some good points.....

Particularly how individual black men who happen to be jerks are sometimes wrongly treated as if they represented *all* African-Americans, I couldn't quite bring myself to rec this article, as there were too many problems with it-framing it as white "privilege" was definitely one of them.

[cyberswede]

14. Jesus fucking christ.

[CANDO]

23. How does JFC have anything to do with this?

You've included him twice now.

[cyberswede]

24. Who?

It's an expression, of course.

[CANDO]

26. Jesus fucking christ, of course.

eom

[cyberswede]

28. Is that a person?

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[CANDO]

38. Forget it

I'm sorry Oh dammit all to bloody hell, I let it slip!

[ismnotwasm]

29. Hey Joe

Are you one of those white privledge deniers, or are you referring to the context of the article?

[cali]

12. Sorry, but that's a ridiculous title, and the article isn't even accurate

there have been more than a few articles about other fraternity chapters. This story is just not a good example of "whites never having to say they're sorry".

[cyberswede]

16. Well, the fact that naughty frat boys don't reflect on all white people is accurate...

whereas black people misbehaving DOES tend to paint all black people with that brush.

[AverageJoe90]

19. Yes, agreed, and I pointed this out myself, btw. nt

[cali]

22. yes, that's absolutely true. particularly when it comes to young black men.

[CANDO]

31. Not in my view

I'm sure racist white people do the group blame thing, but I'm guessing the vast majority of them reside at conservative websites and not here. I don't blame everyone of any race for the mistakes/issues of individuals. Most of us here at DU don't do that.

[uponit7771]

41. +1. I can't even logically relate to collective blaming... seems so lazy

[CANDO]

52. It's funny that...

most of us progressive white people here at DU are often "group accused" of all sorts of things, including being guilty of being unable to apologize. And of being privileged, and of denying it. And on and on it goes. Seems to me there's a whole lot of group think going on. And group blaming, and group accusing. And along comes the passive aggressive attack in ...3...2...1...

[AverageJoe90]

17. I actually overlooked that myself.

To be fair to the author, though, they did still make some good points-I myself pointed out how African-Americans *are* unfairly subjected to the standard of how one bad apple tends to be portrayed as representative of the whole group, by unsavory elements(namely Teabaggers and other RWNJS), whereas white folks only rarely so, and not on the institutional level, for sure.

[CANDO]

25. I'm white and when I screw up...

I say I'm sorry.

[NaturalHigh]

30. Same here.

I had to apologize for something just this morning, so I can honestly say the title of the OP is wrong.

[cyberswede]

50. You clearly didn't read the article

It's not about you, or even individual white people.

It's about society collectively blaming black people as a community for the misdeeds of other black people. The "black community" is seen as responsible for the misdeeds of some of its members - and is therefore expected to "say they're sorry" - metaphorically.

We never hear anyone call for "leaders of the white community" to comment when a white person commits a crime. That's what the title is referring to...not your personal apology habits.

[guillaumeb]

60. I am reading the commnets and wondering

what some people are reading. You summarized it perfectly.

Black leaders are always called to explain or apologize when a black person commits a crime.

Muslim leaders are always called to explain or apologize when a Muslim commits a crime.

No white leaders were asked to explain or apologize when Timothy McVeigh blew up a federal building.

[upaloopa]

61. I agree that the message of the article is

exactly as you state it and the title only makes sense to you if you understand the message of the article.
But the title gets in the way of some white persons' understanding of that message.

[graegoyle]

73. That, right there, is why so many people get so sick of talking about this.

But the title gets in the way of some white persons' understanding of that message.

The title of the article is a general statement about a generalized situation in the United States, explained further in the article; part of which is "White Privilege".

If a person is more upset about a perceived accusation of "You're a racist," that perception is a BIG part of the problem.

[NaturalHigh]

62. I read the OP, didn't click on the article.

From what I read in the OP I didn't see the need to waste my time or give the article any more page views.

[cyberswede]

71. ...which explains why your replies in this thread are so far off the mark.

It might improve your discussion of this issue if you actually understood what you're commenting on.

Or you can keep on with the deliberate obtuseness - doesn't matter to me either way.

[Kali]

83. deliberate obuseness being a form of trolling that got one asshole banned last night

hoping it will be a trend!

[cyberswede]

84. Word, sister! nt

[upaloopa]

81. If you want to deal with the problem you

need to accept that you can't communicate like that. You won't get to people who feel you are criticizing them. You may as well not have posted the article.
It is just simple fact.

[bettyellen]

70. You totally misunderstood the OP- it's not about individuals apologizing....

It's about how very rarely it is that a white person is asked to apologize for their community. But people of color are constantly asked to do the same. Around here feminists are similarly slimed because of one or two nut jobs.

[BlueCaliDem]

33. That's what they've been brought up to believe. Fortunately, not ALL White people

subscribe to that wrongheaded notion and actually do the right thing again and again.

[uppityperson]

35. "This is what privilege is: to speak and act only for yourself, and even then only when you feel..."

"This is what privilege is: to speak and act only for yourself, and even then only when you feel like it."

[DonCoquixote]

51. what is even more tragic/funny

is that the right wing is the first to talk about "individual responsibilty" and "pulling yourself up by your own bootstraps" yet when they are told to be responsible, they shirk it off, hire the lawyers, and beg for sympathy. When their greed ruins the economy, they gladly take government money and corporate welfare.

Never mind the deeper layer that shows that the only reason they rose to their power level is because they act as a collective.If Walmart were founded in the old USSR, it would rightly be held up as an example of a collective which enabled a lot of shirking of responsibility. Never mind the fact that the "Founding father" only got the land they did because England killed oof a bunch of Natives, and they wanted the colonies to keep sending cotton, sugar and Tobacco home.

[Nye Bevan]

54. Senator Byrd apologizes for racial epithet (said n-word on air)

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=121733

[Eleanors38]

59. Group & race-based shaming rarely result in change, more often doubling down & digging in. nt

[romanic]

72. Seriously.

These race-agitating articles are pure clickbait to rile up the masses without any kind of opportunity to ignite dialogue. Its like Fox News with a neoliberal twist; spreading hysteria to the choir.

[ND-Dem]

76. +100 They're completely pointless. There's no action to improve anything except to agree with

the reactionary POV being spread and to assault others.

Completely negative, useless bullshit.

[Eleanors38]

82. I don't talk too much about race with white folks...

Almost all the ones I know rarely exhibit racist behavior, and the others seem bent on proving their hollier-than-thou bonafides by nit picking what I say to find some kind of "racist tendencies." That might even occur at DU.

[graegoyle]

74. Whole. Leak. Wrap.

[NaturalHigh]

100. True.

I wish people would consider that before posting flamebait OPs.

[NM_Birder]

85. DU is on fire with the white shaming today

I'm not ashamed to be white, I've worked my ass for for everything I have, I have a lot because I've worked and sacrificed a lot.
I was not given what I have, and wherever that line was to be given everything if you're white ..I missed the memo.

that is not saying racism doesn't exist,............. but what possible point is there to the rash of posts trying to make white people feel guilty for being white ?

"being white means never having to say you're sorry", what a load of grade a bullshit, all white people are not as "privileged " as a clinton or a bush.

[Texasgal]

88. Is it possible for you to atleast

accept that you've been given more opportunity by design?

[romanic]

95. White privilege does exist.

But it doesn't make you a bad person, at least that's what the message SHOULD be around here. -_-

[NaturalHigh]

99. Your reply is worthy of an OP.

My compliments.

[Matrosov]

101. White = 'isolated incident'; black = 'typical thug'

[ileus]

103. I'm white, and I've apologized bunches.

[KamaAina]

104. This is one of a handful of threads I've ever had that went over 100 posts.

And I delurked right after Nineleven(TM).