Hands up, don't shoot not true?...

[Little Star]

Well, what about this?

I can understand that the words "don't shoot" may not be accurate but I do believe Michael Brown had his hands up because these two guys were taped live weren't they?

[merrily]

1. What is undeniably true is pervasive, continuous racism found among the Ferguson police.

That is all I need to know.

[babylonsister]

3. Yes. I believe that to this day. nt

[Little Star]

4. True.

[uponit7771]

23. +1

[Nye Bevan]

2. They are witnesses 122 and 130 in the DOJ report

Witness 122 insisted that there were three officers present during the shootings, demonstrating the inaccuracy of his perception. Witness 122 described three uniformed police officers engaged with Brown in a “triangle formation” at the time of the shootings. Witness 122 described a heavyset, older officer, and two “skinny, little people,” one of whom was possibly a female and the other with dark hair and a moustache, who was a head shorter than the heavyset officer. Witness 122 described the shooter as the heavyset officer. Witness 122 explained that the heavset officer shot until he ran out of bullets, and then the shorter officer with the moustache trained his gun on Brown, but did not shoot. These statements cannot be reconciled with the fact that Wilson was the only officer present when Brown was shot and that Wilson has a slim build.

....

The contractors, apparently unwittingly, were captured on a widely circulated video taken several minutes after the shooting while responding officers were securing the scene with crime scene tape. That video depicts another individual yelling, “He wasn’t no threat at all,” as Witness 122 put his hands up and stated, “He had his fucking hands in the air.” As detailed below, two other witnesses, Witness 128 and Witness 137, each took credit for making the statement, “He wasn’t no threat at all.”24 Both of those witnesses have since acknowledged to federal agents and prosecutors that they did not, in fact, know whether Brown was a threat.

........

Contrary to the autopsy results establishing that the shot to the top of Brown’s head would have incapacitated Brown almost immediately, both contractors insisted that Brown continued to move toward Wilson as far as 20, 25, or even 30 feet after the final shots. Witness 122 described Brown as walking “dead on his feet, and then he just fell forward.” Later, both contractors admitted that they did not actually see Brown fall to the ground, because their view was obstructed by the corner of a building.

........

According to the Brown family, Witness 122 called them after the shooting and told them that he had seen Wilson shoot Brown execution-style as Brown was on his knees holding his hands in the air. However, Witness 122 denied making any statements about the nature of the shooting to the Brown family. As mentioned, despite his earlier statements, Witness 122 recanted the claim that he actually saw Brown fall dead to the ground.
Witness 122 has no criminal history. As detailed above, material portions of Witness 122’s accounts are irreconcilable with the physical and forensic evidence. These accounts are also inconsistent with each other and inconsistent with credible witness accounts. Accordingly, after a thorough review of all of the evidence, federal prosecutors determined this witness’s accounts not to be credible and therefore do not support a prosecution of Darren Wilson.

http://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/opa/press-releases/attachments/2015/03/04/doj_report_on_shooting_of_michael_brown_1.pdf

Those guys are lucky not to be prosecuted for their lies.

[linuxman]

5. You're wasting your time.

The narrative for some people is so thoroughly cemented that no amount of facts and forensics will convince anyone of anything else.

[JaneyVee]

18. But lets not act as if this doesn't happen all the time in America.

[uponit7771]

24. There were no facts or forensics presented that bolstered Wilsons claim that Brown was...

... a threat from 15 feet away with no weapon..

PERIOD

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

30. The entire DOJ case hangs on whether they can PROVE the crybaby racist prick cop WASNT in

fear for his life


OF COURSE HE WAS

HE had harassed these people for years, he was purposely creating an unnecessary situation, telling them to get the FUCK out of the street then NOT waiting for back up and on and on

If any of us were Brown would we have had enough? Would being shot at be enough of a reason to want to do ANYTHING to stop the shooting?

Was Wilson in fear for his life, you bet your ass he was, because he knew what he was doing to these people was wrong and if the tables were turned, etc.

This is simple folks

[uponit7771]

36. AMEN!! The DOJ report on the FPD already implicates Wilson... I pray its used in court and they FPD

... is sued and it comes out of their fuckin budget and not the cities

[brush]

6. They've managed to get their version of history become the official one

The big lie technique works and people that should know better are falling for it.

I can understand the DOJ having to go with the "official results from the prosecutor's corrupt grand jury report but for an alleged progressive journalist like Jonathan Capehart coming out publicly and buying into the white washing of history is so disappointing to me.

We have to recognize their tricks and not fall for their "big lie" bs.

There were witnesses who say he had his hands up but their testimony was systemically discredited while one witness, who the prosecutor even said was lying, was allowed to testify TWICE and have her lies backing the murderous cop presented to the grand jury.

[Oktober]

7. When you say discredited...

... do you mean with... evidence?

[brush]

14. The witness accounts favoring Wilson were given weight while . . .

while those that didn't go along with his account were discredited — like the construction workers in that video who saw the shooting and said out loud the Brown had his hands up and was no threat.

[uponit7771]

32. Not only that the DOJ didn't look at the credibility of Wilsons claim about WHY Brown was a threat

... from 30 feet away with no weapon.

Wilson out and out lied...

There was NOT ONE WITNESS who corroborated his claim that he had to fire a shot at Brown from that distance

[mythology]

33. The forensic evidence supported some witnesses

For example one of those construction workers you cite, claimed there were multiple cops.

[brush]

42. Did you watch that video?

On it the construction worker said one cop did the shooting then other cops arrived and began putting up crime scene tap.

[pintobean]

8. Why would the DOJ have to go along with a false report?

[brush]

12. i would say because it became the 'on record' report. nt

[pintobean]

13. That's hilarious.

So, Holder and the DOJ fabricated their report to cover for McCulloch and the grand jury?

[brush]

15. No one said they fabricated anything

The DOJ said they couldn't REFUTE the grand jury result. It's wasn't their purpose to do that.

You understand that the DOJ, in trying to prove civil rights violations, looks for different things than what the prosecutor and the grand jury do. Proving that is much more difficult to do. Holder has even said that that needs to be adjusted so that the DOJ can have more leeway to make cases where local authorities fail.

I take it from the title of your post you believe Wilson's account? Guess it's much easier to believe him when the one person who could refute his account is dead. Wilson certainly saw to that.

[pintobean]

17. I don't believe you've read the DOJ report.

Either that, or you've dismissed all of their findings. It's quite devastating to the myths that were being pushed.

[brush]

19. What myths?

Be specific if you have devastating details.

[pintobean]

22. Read the report.

Here's a copy
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/03/04/us/doj-report-on-shooting-of-michael-brown.html

[uponit7771]

35. That's deflection and not answering the logical query...

[uponit7771]

28. So there was a finding on the credibility of WHY Wilson took the first shot after Brown turned

... around?!1

No, there wasn't...

Wilson lied, and no other witness corroborated his telling of the REASON he had to take the first shot..

The reason you don't know about it is you didn't read the GJ testimony


NOT ONE WITNESS corroborated Wilson's reasoning


NOT ONE

[LanternWaste]

54. Holder wrote the report?

Holder wrote the report? Or is that merely creative license on your part...? (I'm guessing the second-- as it often helps make a point when we lack one)

[pintobean]

56. "Holder and the DOJ"

I'm sure you caught that.
It's Holder's department. He has oversight and had to sign off on it. He released it at a press conference.

What were you saying about lacking a point?

[Nye Bevan]

9. Witness 122 kind of discredited himself when he said there were 3 officers at the scene.

I don't understand why all of the lying witnesses (for both sides) have not been criminally charged.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

10. Because being wrong is not a criminal offence, and it's very hard to prove someone wasn't.

Possibly also, more cynically, because it would probably lead to riots.

[Nye Bevan]

11. I'm not talking about people being mistaken about details.

I'm talking about those who lied outright to the police, saying things like they witnessed the shooting, and making up a detailed narrative of what they supposedly witnessed, when they were not even there. That is a crime.

[brush]

16. Yeah, like the white woman who claimed she saw it . . .

and was there to do research so she could learn how to stop using the "N" word.

And that prosecutor allowed her testimony to go before the grand jury — called her back to testify twice in fact.

[uponit7771]

26. +1

[blm]

31. McCulloch even QUOTED her testimony in his press availability…no intention to

mislead the press and the public, eh, McCulloch?

Did Hannity ever apologize for pushing that lie?

[Nye Bevan]

40. Yep, she should be prosecuted too.

I'm talking about the witnesses on both sides who lied.

[uponit7771]

27. We're not talking about people being just "wrong" ... that's a strawman, there were people who out a

... and out lied

[uponit7771]

25. +1

[fadedrose]

20. CNN had on some people last night - AG report

The report that the Attorney General released was some 100 pages, and everyone but Van Jones seemed convinced that the report was correct.

According to the report, witnesses agreed that Brown did not have his arms raised, but that he raised them, hesitated, and proceeded to charge toward the cop, Wilson. And those that said they had seen him raise his arms changed their testimony. The witnesses, it was brought up, were black.

Jones' complaint is that the grand jury was conducted by the prosecutor, and that normally that doesn't happen. And no one cross -examined the witnesses who claimed "no hands up."

Grand juries are supposed to be secret, but are run by a third party, so Jones is and will remain unconvinced. Don Lemon had to tell him to be quiet many times in this program because he constantly interrupted the guests who accepted the GJ's testimonies....I think Van had tears in his eyes...

I like Van Jones, and somehow hope he finds peace with this report.

[hfojvt]

21. look at that guy in the still

what does his body language say to you?

[Little Star]

47. Seeing that that video was taken live while the incident took place...

the video speaks for itself as far as I'm concerned. That worker was showing what he saw while the whole thing was unfolding. For me that speaks louder than any re-telling of the story after. The truth is shown in the video!

[hfojvt]

48. you did not answer the question

Look at the way he has his arms. What message do you get from somebody with his arms like that?

[hfojvt]

49. my point being

a) presumably this guy was showing HOW Mike Browns "hands were in the air".

except

b) a guy with his hands in the air like that guy is not saying "I surrender". That's not how you put your hands when you want to surrender. When a guy puts his hands like that, he is likely to say something like "you want some?" or "bring it on, man" or "what are you gonna do?" Those arms are in a "let's fight" pose and NOT in an "I give up" pose.

[Little Star]

53. That's a video with sound.....

did you listen to the video?

[uponit7771]

29. +1, Instant Utterance is not evidence when it comes to racist claims... They're hanging their hats

... on the DOJ report which didn't look at Wilsons claims at all.

There's no way Humans on Earth believe Brown was a threat from 15 feet away with no weapon

[mythology]

38. You obviously have no idea how quickly 15 feet can be covered

15 feet is shorter than the Tueller drill which shows 21 feet can be covered in 1.5 seconds. Mythbusters in 2012 found that under 20 feet an attacker was always able to get to somebody with a holstered gun. At this point Wilson would have had his gun out, but that is well within an attacking distance.

Additionally you can now say that Brown didn't have a weapon, but that is information that couldn't have been known at the time, especially in light of the fact that Brown had already hit Wilson.

[uponit7771]

44. The distance I mentioned was a fly paper trap, it was 2 - 3 times that distance... you're really try

... trying to justify that a person standing that far away can't be ran from?!

No, you're not going to succeed at that...

Brown had NOTHING in his hands and could've been distanced...

Also, the other thing the DOJ didn't look at was why Brown was chased by Wilson in the first place seeing Wilson shot Brown already...

The DOJ didn't look at the veracity of Wilsons claims...

That's what the lawsuite is going to do

[NoJusticeNoPeace]

37. While racist cops are defended on DU and elsewhere, we have lynchings going on.

I cant say more, i will get hidden.


Psst, we have a big problem BIG

[NaturalHigh]

50. We have lynchings going on? Huh?

What lynchings are you talking about?

[wingzeroday]

52. I would imagine it would be this incident

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026387325

[Hoyt]

39. Rather than firing 12 shots wildly in a densely populated area, endangering innocent

people, Wilson should have waited for backup. He clearly had no regard for anyone in that neighborhood, not to mention he worked for a predominantly racist police department.

Police need to learn how to handle unarmed people.

[brush]

41. Exactly!

He should've waited for back-up instead of firing wildly.

I mean, how far is a highly visible 6'5", 300lb teenager going to get?

[blm]

43. Exactly!!! And those horrified that a 20yo shot into crowd of protestors and

struck police officers should have been on the frontline pointing to the irresponsibility of a trained officer like Wilson shooting wildly at an unarmed target in a populated neighborhood.

[uponit7771]

45. +1

[Z_California]

46. Why I know it was a bad shooting:

Anyone who buys the load of crap being presented to the public needs to listen to the cell phone videos taken right after the shooting. Random people who didn't know they were even being recorded tripping out over the completely unnecessary murder. It was all over Twitter that day but I've never heard any of those recordings played on corporate media. Listen to the recording of the gunshots and tell me at what point in that rapid fire was this unarmed kid, who ran more than a hundred feet from the cop car, a threat.

Mike Brown was shot because that a racist cop wouldn't accept being disrespected by a n****er. No report was filed for weeks until they could piece together their bullshit story. Any other version you believe is based on lies and wishful thinking.

[B2G]

51. What about Brown reaching into the patrol car to get the gun?

How do you justify that?

[Voice for Peace]

55. thanks

For some reason people continue to post on Facebook
about how truth and justice prevailed in the investigation
and grand jury. And people I know "like" such posts.

And I want to SCREAM but nobody can hear a scream
over the web.