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arcane1

(38,613 posts)
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 07:50 PM Mar 2015

Salesforce CEO Slams 'The World's Dumbest Idea': Maximizing Shareholder Value

Jack Welch has called it “the dumbest idea in the world.”

Vinci Group Chairman and CEO Xavier Huillard has called it “totally idiotic.”

Alibaba CEO Jack Ma has said that “customers are number one; employees are number two and shareholders are number three.”

Paul Polman, CEO of Unilever [UN], has denounced “the cult of shareholder value.”

John Mackey at Whole Foods [WFM] has condemned businesses that “view their purpose as profit maximization and treat all participants in the system as means to that end.”

This week, Marc Benioff, Chairman and CEO of Salesforce [CRM] joined these CEOs and declared in an article in the Huffington Post that this still-pervasive business theory is “wrong. The business of business isn’t just about creating profits for shareholders — it’s also about improving the state of the world and driving stakeholder value.”

-snip-

http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2015/02/05/salesforce-ceo-slams-the-worlds-dumbest-idea-maximizing-shareholder-value/


I didn't realize this particular heresy was so popular!

54 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Salesforce CEO Slams 'The World's Dumbest Idea': Maximizing Shareholder Value (Original Post) arcane1 Mar 2015 OP
Yet, Sherman A1 Mar 2015 #1
Indeed! Talk is, as they say, cheap. arcane1 Mar 2015 #2
I'll be interested in hearing your counterpoint; with documentation, of course. nt Xipe Totec Mar 2015 #3
Well there is this... Sherman A1 Mar 2015 #9
I read the whole article. Glassunion Mar 2015 #15
Doodie head. LOL Chellee Mar 2015 #22
After a careful reading of the article, I have to accept your assessment; he is a doodie head. Xipe Totec Mar 2015 #34
Pssssst.... Glassunion Mar 2015 #13
jack welch...is about maximizing jack welch. and he's an alien. fuck him. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #28
Too bad he didn't feel so like minded about the minimum wage employees being paid more. Dustlawyer Mar 2015 #30
An ill-fitting "human" disguise if I've ever seen one. Inhabiting a cheap, third-hand cadaver. NBachers Mar 2015 #37
the epitome of a republican DrDan Mar 2015 #41
Salesforce luxmatic Mar 2015 #31
Thanks for the info and links. raven mad Mar 2015 #35
American businesses were the most successful when the customer was king hifiguy Mar 2015 #4
And today we have outsourcing, planned obsolescence, and "flexible" workforces arcane1 Mar 2015 #5
Personally, I lay the principle blame at the feet of hifiguy Mar 2015 #7
+1000 smirkymonkey Mar 2015 #11
Spot on BrotherIvan Mar 2015 #20
Yep! n/t RKP5637 Mar 2015 #26
Hit them with some fresh Six Sigma black-belts too, in their non-manufacturing sectors. arcane1 Mar 2015 #24
Hey now PowerToThePeople Mar 2015 #25
I'm sure there are advantages in the right environments, but it's become a religion where I work arcane1 Mar 2015 #27
I think the issue with tools like this PowerToThePeople Mar 2015 #29
Yes, because CRM is the way to happiness and job satisfaction! PassingFair Mar 2015 #6
Jack Welch, gimme a break. JackRiddler Mar 2015 #8
this is the reality PowerToThePeople Mar 2015 #14
I have worked at three hedge fund-owned businesses. PassingFair Mar 2015 #36
Isn't Salesforce on the Indiana HQ list? Downwinder Mar 2015 #10
Benioff on Indiana WestCoastLib Mar 2015 #12
Look forward to seeing his next step. Downwinder Mar 2015 #17
Didn't take long. Downwinder Mar 2015 #21
Their headquarters is in San Francisco. They bought a company that was in IN. (nt) jeff47 Mar 2015 #19
The list of toxic effects created by this mindset in the article hifiguy Mar 2015 #16
Good List, That ProfessorGAC Mar 2015 #48
It is from a link in this thread. hifiguy Mar 2015 #50
The only problem is that he is listing who he is screwing over Taitertots Mar 2015 #18
+a whole bunch! RiverLover Mar 2015 #47
Wow ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #23
You Know Though, 1SMB. . . ProfessorGAC Mar 2015 #49
If I might ask ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #52
Kellogg in the Mid to Late 90's ProfessorGAC Mar 2015 #53
Wow ... 1StrongBlackMan Mar 2015 #54
When are people going to wake up and realize Wall Street is NOT "The Market".... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #32
+1,000,000 It's actually dismantling the US market these days and moving it elsewhere. ND-Dem Mar 2015 #38
Ever watch "Shark Tank"? Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #39
what a surprise. that's what they all want. but then they'll have to eat each other for ND-Dem Mar 2015 #40
It ain't to be replaced by rabbits.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2015 #42
Short term gain at the expense of long term stability. Throd Mar 2015 #33
R&K! RiverLover Mar 2015 #43
K&R woo me with science Mar 2015 #44
Someone wrote an entire book about it. HughBeaumont Mar 2015 #45
Thank you for the post! This books sounds like it's right up my alley :) arcane1 Mar 2015 #46
Greed is infinite. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #51

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
15. I read the whole article.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:31 PM
Mar 2015

Yeah, he is a doodie head. But the article was lacking in explaining (I'm going to use your words here) "how do they act and how do they treat their employees and customers?"

Xipe Totec

(43,890 posts)
34. After a careful reading of the article, I have to accept your assessment; he is a doodie head.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 11:00 PM
Mar 2015

But there is nothing in the article about how they treat their employees and customers.

My son is an employee at Whole Foods, and I am a customer.

Neither of us have any complaints in that regard.

Glassunion

(10,201 posts)
13. Pssssst....
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:25 PM
Mar 2015

They have made the best companies to work for list, every year for the past 18 years. This is a blind, and anonymous survey, completed by the employees. No executives (board members) can take the survey.

http://us.greatrated.com/whole-foods-market



 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
28. jack welch...is about maximizing jack welch. and he's an alien. fuck him.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:02 PM
Mar 2015

He was chairman and CEO of General Electric between 1981 and 2001. During his tenure at GE, the company's value rose 4,000%.[2] In 2006, Welch's net worth was estimated at $720 million.[1] When he retired from GE he took a severance payment of $417 million, the largest such payment in history.[3]



cold alien eyes


Welch popularized so-called "rank and yank" policies used now by other corporate entities. Each year, Welch would fire the bottom 10% of his managers, regardless of absolute performance.[14]...During the early 1980s he was dubbed "Neutron Jack" (in reference to the neutron bomb) for eliminating employees while leaving buildings intact.[16] In Jack: Straight From The Gut, Welch states that GE had 411,000 employees at the end of 1980, and 299,000 at the end of 1985. Of the 112,000 who left the payroll, 37,000 were in businesses that GE sold, and 81,000 were reduced in continuing businesses.... Welch reduced basic research, and closed or sold off businesses that were under-performing.

According to BusinessWeek, critics of Welch have questioned whether the pressure he places on employees may have led them to "cut corners", which may have contributed to controversies over defense-contracting, or the Kidder, Peabody & Co. bond-trading scheme in the early 1990s.[8]

Welch has received criticism for a lack of compassion for the middle class and working class. By his actions during acquisitions and wholesale shutdowns of GE business units Welch proved that keeping only the "good" units of your company can maximize ROI in the short term.[21] Welch has stated that he is not concerned with the discrepancy between the salaries of top-paid CEOs and those of average workers. When asked about the issue of excessive CEO pay, Welch has said that such allegations are "outrageous" and has vehemently opposed proposed SEC regulations affecting executive compensation. Countering the public uproar over excessive executive pay (including backdating stock options, golden parachutes for nonperformance, and extravagant retirement packages), Welch stated that CEO compensation should continue to be dictated by the free market, without interference from government or other outside parties.[22]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Welch

Dustlawyer

(10,495 posts)
30. Too bad he didn't feel so like minded about the minimum wage employees being paid more.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:17 PM
Mar 2015

The oil companies and refiners are all about short term profits and budget for the deaths of their employees when decided not to fix or replace dangerous equipment. I have seen this over and over!

DrDan

(20,411 posts)
41. the epitome of a republican
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 05:37 AM
Mar 2015

order of importance

1. me
2. those who can help me
3. others of wealth
4. there is no 4 - to hell with everyone else

luxmatic

(31 posts)
31. Salesforce
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:37 PM
Mar 2015

Most don't know that Salesforce is an incredibly progressive company.

The company treasures its employees. It is consistently chosen, by many places, as one of the best places to work in the country. http://blogs.salesforce.com/company/2014/01/fortunes-2014-best-places-to-work.html

Philanthropy is a core tenant and is built directly into its culture - Salesforce "leverage(s) 1% of the company’s product, equity and time to improve communities around the world". Employees are given 6 days *paid* a year to volunteer for non-profits. Your first day as an employee will likely have you serve food to the homeless at Glide Memorial in San Francisco. http://www.salesforce.com/company/foundation/ and http://www.salesforcefoundation.org/success-stories/

Customer success is a hugely important value, too. http://www.salesforce.com/customers/

When Marc Benioff says "The business of business isn’t just about creating profits for shareholders — it’s also about improving the state of the world and driving stakeholder value.” - believe it. He does, and follows through on it.

(Don't misread stakeholder as shareholder - two different things.)

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
4. American businesses were the most successful when the customer was king
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:00 PM
Mar 2015

and employee input and loyalty were rewarded. The most cursory reading of post-WW II US history proves this beyond all shadow of a doubt.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
7. Personally, I lay the principle blame at the feet of
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:08 PM
Mar 2015

the "business schools." Were I elected benevolent dictator I would give the accountants their own department and shutter the rest of the business school departments. (ETA - we have needed accountants since the time of the pharaohs and will always need them. Bean counters perform a useful and necessary function).

And to slow down Chinese economic growth I would bomb them with financial engineers and "human resources" MBAs. That'll put a hitch in their gitalong, as Molly Ivins would put it. Bring 'em to their knees.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
11. +1000
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:22 PM
Mar 2015

F***k Shareholders! I (and many others) are getting laid off at the end of June because of "maximizing shareholder benefits". Business school departments, corporate executives, boards of directors and any person/entity with an influential number of shares should be the first to go under the guillotine.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
24. Hit them with some fresh Six Sigma black-belts too, in their non-manufacturing sectors.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 09:46 PM
Mar 2015

*Rubs hands in malevolent glee*

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
25. Hey now
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 09:56 PM
Mar 2015

I believe we need more of these.

If you were to truly LEAN out the economy, some of the biggest non value-add costs to eliminate would be corporate overhead and shareholder payouts.

 

arcane1

(38,613 posts)
27. I'm sure there are advantages in the right environments, but it's become a religion where I work
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:02 PM
Mar 2015

Almost more like a cult, and at least in my realm it's like talking to a brick wall.

Then again, my employer is rather dysfunctional itself, so maybe it's us

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
29. I think the issue with tools like this
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:08 PM
Mar 2015

is that the management teams focus the efforts on certain specific targets, typically the production floor and work staff. To be truly effective, the target base needs to be expanded to a wider region. But the tools, imho, are very good at doing what they are designed to do.

edit - strange to see this today, as I was earlier mulling around with the idea of writing about a LEAN economic system and what it would look like.

 

JackRiddler

(24,979 posts)
8. Jack Welch, gimme a break.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:11 PM
Mar 2015

This is lip service since "shareholder value" - the principle of profit, of return on private investment - is the defining characteristic of the capitalism these same people uphold as the most perfect and wonderful of all systems.

 

PowerToThePeople

(9,610 posts)
14. this is the reality
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:28 PM
Mar 2015

The underlying system, Capitalism, is the driver here. Sure, any individual or group can choose to try to do it another way but that does not change the overall stucture of the underlying system. Capitalism must be replaced by another ruleset in order to make things better, permanently.

PassingFair

(22,434 posts)
36. I have worked at three hedge fund-owned businesses.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 12:33 AM
Mar 2015

They didn't give a *uck about "shareholders" either!!

Just squeeze, bleed and leave with whatever the "executives" can manage to stuff in their pockets!

Downwinder

(12,869 posts)
17. Look forward to seeing his next step.
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:37 PM
Mar 2015

He might start paying more attention to politicians and what is going on if it hurts his bottom line.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
16. The list of toxic effects created by this mindset in the article
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:32 PM
Mar 2015

is stunning:

These criticisms of the single-minded pursuit of shareholder value as measured by the current stock price are well-founded. The theory has contributed to:

pervasive short-termism;

diverted human and financial resources from needed investments in innovation;

dispirited both employees and managers, leading to pervasive disengagement;

generated “bad profits” that undermined customer loyalty;

caused excessive “financialization” of the economy, making it vulnerable financial crashes;

incentivized CEOs to become financial engineers and companies to lose their entrepreneurial mojo;

led firms to pursue the extraction of value, rather than the creation of value;

undermined the economic recovery from the Global Financial Crisis;

drastically reduced rates of return on assets and on invested capital;

appropriated gains that flowed from workers’ improvements in productivity; and

led to secular economic stagnation and increasingly unsustainable economic inequality.

And this is from freaking Forbes.

ProfessorGAC

(65,001 posts)
48. Good List, That
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 01:44 PM
Mar 2015

And, as you say, from Forbes?

I agree with every one of the points. I've seen it myself.

 

Taitertots

(7,745 posts)
18. The only problem is that he is listing who he is screwing over
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 08:37 PM
Mar 2015

First you extract as much as possible from the consumer.
Then you can slash wages as much as possible.
Take all the profits and pay shareholders.

You can tell Jack Ma is serious because all the people who work for his corporation are rich.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
23. Wow ...
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 09:28 PM
Mar 2015

A lot of B-School Grads ought to ask for their money back ... they paid $100,000s mastering what every kid that operated a lemon stand knew to be false.

ProfessorGAC

(65,001 posts)
49. You Know Though, 1SMB. . .
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 01:48 PM
Mar 2015

. . .i went to b-school and got an MBA (years after my advanced degrees in chemistry and stats), and nobody there ever said any of this claptrap.

I would have remembered it, because i was around 40 and wouldn't have subscribed to that idea then, just like i don't now. I would have clearly remembered debating the deeper economic point with any instructor who said it, and that never happened.

It may be taught that way, but not everywhere.

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
52. If I might ask ...
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:14 PM
Mar 2015

when (and where) did you do B-School?

I know that it was taught when (and where) in got my MPA ... (I petitioned, and was allowed, to cross-register because my program did not have the depth of Econ, Finance and Corporate Governance courses I wanted as my electives. That was in the mid-2000s.

I would have remembered it, because i was around 40 and wouldn't have subscribed to that idea then, just like i don't now. I would have clearly remembered debating the deeper economic point with any instructor who said it, and that never happened.


I do ... I didn't ... I did ... and I did (and still worked out of the courses with "A"s)

ProfessorGAC

(65,001 posts)
53. Kellogg in the Mid to Late 90's
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 03:46 PM
Mar 2015

I'm almost 59 now and i'm pretty sure i got my degree just before i turned 42, so around 17 years ago.

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
32. When are people going to wake up and realize Wall Street is NOT "The Market"....
Thu Mar 26, 2015, 10:43 PM
Mar 2015

It only BETS on The Market.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
38. +1,000,000 It's actually dismantling the US market these days and moving it elsewhere.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 02:09 AM
Mar 2015

and running with the loot

 

Spitfire of ATJ

(32,723 posts)
39. Ever watch "Shark Tank"?
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 05:10 AM
Mar 2015

There's a guy called "Mr. Wonderful" who wants all manufacturing outsourced to slave labor in Asia.

He considers maximizing profits like that to be patriotic.

 

ND-Dem

(4,571 posts)
40. what a surprise. that's what they all want. but then they'll have to eat each other for
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 05:29 AM
Mar 2015

declining markets...

wonder what the end game is.

HughBeaumont

(24,461 posts)
45. Someone wrote an entire book about it.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 01:05 PM
Mar 2015
http://www.alternet.org/economy/dumbest-idea-world-corporate-americas-false-and-dangerous-ideology-shareholder-value

Funny thing is, you listen to conservative wonks talk, they insist up and down business begins and ends with the magnates.

This book argues that the Deepwater Horizon disaster is only one example of a larger problem that afflicts many public corporations today. That problem might be called shareholder value thinking. According to the doctrine of shareholder value, public corporations “belong” to their shareholders, and they exist for one purpose only, to maximize shareholders’ wealth. Shareholder wealth, in turn, is typically measured by share price—meaning share price today, not share price next year or next decade.

Shareholder value thinking is endemic in the business world today. Fifty years ago, if you had asked the directors or CEO of a large public company what the company’s purpose was, you might have been told the corporation had many purposes: to provide equity investors with solid returns, but also to build great products, to provide decent livelihoods for employees, and to contribute to the community and the nation. Today, you are likely to be told the company has but one purpose, to maximize its shareholders’ wealth. This sort of thinking drives directors and executives to run public firms like BP with a relentless focus on raising stock price. In the quest to “unlock shareholder value” they sell key assets, fire loyal employees, and ruthlessly squeeze the workforce that remains; cut back on product support, customer assistance, and research and development; delay replacing outworn, out- moded, and unsafe equipment; shower CEOs with stock options and expensive pay packages to “incentivize” them; drain cash reserves to pay large dividends and repurchase company shares, leveraging firms until they teeter on the brink of insolvency; and lobby regulators and Congress to change the law so they can chase short-term profits speculating in credit default swaps and other high-risk financial derivatives. They do these things even though many individual directors and executives feel uneasy about such strategies, intuiting that a single-minded focus on share price may not serve the interests of society, the company, or shareholders themselves.

This book examines and challenges the doctrine of shareholder value. It argues that shareholder value ideology is just that—an ideology, not a legal requirement or a practical necessity of modern business life. United States corporate law does not, and never has, required directors of public corporations to maximize either share price or shareholder wealth. To the contrary, as long as boards do not use their power to enrich themselves, the law gives them a wide range of discretion to run public corporations with other goals in mind, including growing the firm, creating quality products, protecting employees, and serving the public interest. Chasing shareholder value is a managerial choice, not a legal requirement.


 

Manifestor_of_Light

(21,046 posts)
51. Greed is infinite.
Fri Mar 27, 2015, 01:53 PM
Mar 2015

So a rich man never has enough.

We all die in the end.

Like this man, once the richest man in the world. I've seen his grave:

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=521&PIpi=104385

Sic transit gloria mundi. Thus passes the glory of the world.

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