General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSalesforce CEO Slams 'The World's Dumbest Idea': Maximizing Shareholder Value
Jack Welch has called it the dumbest idea in the world.
Vinci Group Chairman and CEO Xavier Huillard has called it totally idiotic.
Alibaba CEO Jack Ma has said that customers are number one; employees are number two and shareholders are number three.
Paul Polman, CEO of Unilever [UN], has denounced the cult of shareholder value.
John Mackey at Whole Foods [WFM] has condemned businesses that view their purpose as profit maximization and treat all participants in the system as means to that end.
This week, Marc Benioff, Chairman and CEO of Salesforce [CRM] joined these CEOs and declared in an article in the Huffington Post that this still-pervasive business theory is wrong. The business of business isnt just about creating profits for shareholders its also about improving the state of the world and driving stakeholder value.
-snip-
http://www.forbes.com/sites/stevedenning/2015/02/05/salesforce-ceo-slams-the-worlds-dumbest-idea-maximizing-shareholder-value/
I didn't realize this particular heresy was so popular!
Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)how do they act and how do they treat their employees and customers?
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)Sherman A1
(38,958 posts)Glassunion
(10,201 posts)Yeah, he is a doodie head. But the article was lacking in explaining (I'm going to use your words here) "how do they act and how do they treat their employees and customers?"
Chellee
(2,095 posts)You make me smile on a very unsmiley day.
Thank you.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)But there is nothing in the article about how they treat their employees and customers.
My son is an employee at Whole Foods, and I am a customer.
Neither of us have any complaints in that regard.
Glassunion
(10,201 posts)They have made the best companies to work for list, every year for the past 18 years. This is a blind, and anonymous survey, completed by the employees. No executives (board members) can take the survey.
http://us.greatrated.com/whole-foods-market
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)He was chairman and CEO of General Electric between 1981 and 2001. During his tenure at GE, the company's value rose 4,000%.[2] In 2006, Welch's net worth was estimated at $720 million.[1] When he retired from GE he took a severance payment of $417 million, the largest such payment in history.[3]
cold alien eyes
Welch popularized so-called "rank and yank" policies used now by other corporate entities. Each year, Welch would fire the bottom 10% of his managers, regardless of absolute performance.[14]...During the early 1980s he was dubbed "Neutron Jack" (in reference to the neutron bomb) for eliminating employees while leaving buildings intact.[16] In Jack: Straight From The Gut, Welch states that GE had 411,000 employees at the end of 1980, and 299,000 at the end of 1985. Of the 112,000 who left the payroll, 37,000 were in businesses that GE sold, and 81,000 were reduced in continuing businesses.... Welch reduced basic research, and closed or sold off businesses that were under-performing.
According to BusinessWeek, critics of Welch have questioned whether the pressure he places on employees may have led them to "cut corners", which may have contributed to controversies over defense-contracting, or the Kidder, Peabody & Co. bond-trading scheme in the early 1990s.[8]
Welch has received criticism for a lack of compassion for the middle class and working class. By his actions during acquisitions and wholesale shutdowns of GE business units Welch proved that keeping only the "good" units of your company can maximize ROI in the short term.[21] Welch has stated that he is not concerned with the discrepancy between the salaries of top-paid CEOs and those of average workers. When asked about the issue of excessive CEO pay, Welch has said that such allegations are "outrageous" and has vehemently opposed proposed SEC regulations affecting executive compensation. Countering the public uproar over excessive executive pay (including backdating stock options, golden parachutes for nonperformance, and extravagant retirement packages), Welch stated that CEO compensation should continue to be dictated by the free market, without interference from government or other outside parties.[22]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Welch
Dustlawyer
(10,495 posts)The oil companies and refiners are all about short term profits and budget for the deaths of their employees when decided not to fix or replace dangerous equipment. I have seen this over and over!
NBachers
(17,107 posts)DrDan
(20,411 posts)order of importance
1. me
2. those who can help me
3. others of wealth
4. there is no 4 - to hell with everyone else
luxmatic
(31 posts)Most don't know that Salesforce is an incredibly progressive company.
The company treasures its employees. It is consistently chosen, by many places, as one of the best places to work in the country. http://blogs.salesforce.com/company/2014/01/fortunes-2014-best-places-to-work.html
Philanthropy is a core tenant and is built directly into its culture - Salesforce "leverage(s) 1% of the companys product, equity and time to improve communities around the world". Employees are given 6 days *paid* a year to volunteer for non-profits. Your first day as an employee will likely have you serve food to the homeless at Glide Memorial in San Francisco. http://www.salesforce.com/company/foundation/ and http://www.salesforcefoundation.org/success-stories/
Customer success is a hugely important value, too. http://www.salesforce.com/customers/
When Marc Benioff says "The business of business isnt just about creating profits for shareholders its also about improving the state of the world and driving stakeholder value. - believe it. He does, and follows through on it.
(Don't misread stakeholder as shareholder - two different things.)
raven mad
(4,940 posts)And welcome to DU!
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)and employee input and loyalty were rewarded. The most cursory reading of post-WW II US history proves this beyond all shadow of a doubt.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)the "business schools." Were I elected benevolent dictator I would give the accountants their own department and shutter the rest of the business school departments. (ETA - we have needed accountants since the time of the pharaohs and will always need them. Bean counters perform a useful and necessary function).
And to slow down Chinese economic growth I would bomb them with financial engineers and "human resources" MBAs. That'll put a hitch in their gitalong, as Molly Ivins would put it. Bring 'em to their knees.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)F***k Shareholders! I (and many others) are getting laid off at the end of June because of "maximizing shareholder benefits". Business school departments, corporate executives, boards of directors and any person/entity with an influential number of shares should be the first to go under the guillotine.
BrotherIvan
(9,126 posts)I blame Reagan
RKP5637
(67,104 posts)arcane1
(38,613 posts)*Rubs hands in malevolent glee*
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)I believe we need more of these.
If you were to truly LEAN out the economy, some of the biggest non value-add costs to eliminate would be corporate overhead and shareholder payouts.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Almost more like a cult, and at least in my realm it's like talking to a brick wall.
Then again, my employer is rather dysfunctional itself, so maybe it's us
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)is that the management teams focus the efforts on certain specific targets, typically the production floor and work staff. To be truly effective, the target base needs to be expanded to a wider region. But the tools, imho, are very good at doing what they are designed to do.
edit - strange to see this today, as I was earlier mulling around with the idea of writing about a LEAN economic system and what it would look like.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Not.
JackRiddler
(24,979 posts)This is lip service since "shareholder value" - the principle of profit, of return on private investment - is the defining characteristic of the capitalism these same people uphold as the most perfect and wonderful of all systems.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)The underlying system, Capitalism, is the driver here. Sure, any individual or group can choose to try to do it another way but that does not change the overall stucture of the underlying system. Capitalism must be replaced by another ruleset in order to make things better, permanently.
PassingFair
(22,434 posts)They didn't give a *uck about "shareholders" either!!
Just squeeze, bleed and leave with whatever the "executives" can manage to stuff in their pockets!
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)Is he getting religion?
WestCoastLib
(442 posts)Downwinder
(12,869 posts)He might start paying more attention to politicians and what is going on if it hurts his bottom line.
Downwinder
(12,869 posts)jeff47
(26,549 posts)hifiguy
(33,688 posts)is stunning:
These criticisms of the single-minded pursuit of shareholder value as measured by the current stock price are well-founded. The theory has contributed to:
pervasive short-termism;
diverted human and financial resources from needed investments in innovation;
dispirited both employees and managers, leading to pervasive disengagement;
generated bad profits that undermined customer loyalty;
caused excessive financialization of the economy, making it vulnerable financial crashes;
incentivized CEOs to become financial engineers and companies to lose their entrepreneurial mojo;
led firms to pursue the extraction of value, rather than the creation of value;
undermined the economic recovery from the Global Financial Crisis;
drastically reduced rates of return on assets and on invested capital;
appropriated gains that flowed from workers improvements in productivity; and
led to secular economic stagnation and increasingly unsustainable economic inequality.
And this is from freaking Forbes.
ProfessorGAC
(65,001 posts)And, as you say, from Forbes?
I agree with every one of the points. I've seen it myself.
hifiguy
(33,688 posts)Pretty sure the header said Forbes.
Taitertots
(7,745 posts)First you extract as much as possible from the consumer.
Then you can slash wages as much as possible.
Take all the profits and pay shareholders.
You can tell Jack Ma is serious because all the people who work for his corporation are rich.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Good post.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)A lot of B-School Grads ought to ask for their money back ... they paid $100,000s mastering what every kid that operated a lemon stand knew to be false.
ProfessorGAC
(65,001 posts). . .i went to b-school and got an MBA (years after my advanced degrees in chemistry and stats), and nobody there ever said any of this claptrap.
I would have remembered it, because i was around 40 and wouldn't have subscribed to that idea then, just like i don't now. I would have clearly remembered debating the deeper economic point with any instructor who said it, and that never happened.
It may be taught that way, but not everywhere.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)when (and where) did you do B-School?
I know that it was taught when (and where) in got my MPA ... (I petitioned, and was allowed, to cross-register because my program did not have the depth of Econ, Finance and Corporate Governance courses I wanted as my electives. That was in the mid-2000s.
I do ... I didn't ... I did ... and I did (and still worked out of the courses with "A"s)
ProfessorGAC
(65,001 posts)I'm almost 59 now and i'm pretty sure i got my degree just before i turned 42, so around 17 years ago.
1StrongBlackMan
(31,849 posts)a good school ... more prestigious than the one I attended.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)It only BETS on The Market.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)and running with the loot
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)There's a guy called "Mr. Wonderful" who wants all manufacturing outsourced to slave labor in Asia.
He considers maximizing profits like that to be patriotic.
ND-Dem
(4,571 posts)declining markets...
wonder what the end game is.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Throd
(7,208 posts)RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Thank you for posting this!!
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Funny thing is, you listen to conservative wonks talk, they insist up and down business begins and ends with the magnates.
Shareholder value thinking is endemic in the business world today. Fifty years ago, if you had asked the directors or CEO of a large public company what the companys purpose was, you might have been told the corporation had many purposes: to provide equity investors with solid returns, but also to build great products, to provide decent livelihoods for employees, and to contribute to the community and the nation. Today, you are likely to be told the company has but one purpose, to maximize its shareholders wealth. This sort of thinking drives directors and executives to run public firms like BP with a relentless focus on raising stock price. In the quest to unlock shareholder value they sell key assets, fire loyal employees, and ruthlessly squeeze the workforce that remains; cut back on product support, customer assistance, and research and development; delay replacing outworn, out- moded, and unsafe equipment; shower CEOs with stock options and expensive pay packages to incentivize them; drain cash reserves to pay large dividends and repurchase company shares, leveraging firms until they teeter on the brink of insolvency; and lobby regulators and Congress to change the law so they can chase short-term profits speculating in credit default swaps and other high-risk financial derivatives. They do these things even though many individual directors and executives feel uneasy about such strategies, intuiting that a single-minded focus on share price may not serve the interests of society, the company, or shareholders themselves.
This book examines and challenges the doctrine of shareholder value. It argues that shareholder value ideology is just thatan ideology, not a legal requirement or a practical necessity of modern business life. United States corporate law does not, and never has, required directors of public corporations to maximize either share price or shareholder wealth. To the contrary, as long as boards do not use their power to enrich themselves, the law gives them a wide range of discretion to run public corporations with other goals in mind, including growing the firm, creating quality products, protecting employees, and serving the public interest. Chasing shareholder value is a managerial choice, not a legal requirement.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Manifestor_of_Light
(21,046 posts)So a rich man never has enough.
We all die in the end.
Like this man, once the richest man in the world. I've seen his grave:
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=pv&GRid=521&PIpi=104385
Sic transit gloria mundi. Thus passes the glory of the world.