Don’t blame depression for the Germanwings tragedy

[Surya Gayatri]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/27/depression-germanwings-tragedy-pilot-andreas-lubitz-mental-health

Pilot Andreas Lubitz might have suffered from depression, but that doesn’t explain what he did. We are at risk of further demonising those with mental health problems.

News of the Germanwings crash which left 150 dead has, inevitably, led to questions about what went wrong. In the absence of any technical fault, attention has shifted to Andreas Lubitz, the pilot who appears to have deliberately caused the crash. Reports are now suggesting that Lubitz had a history of depression. Predictably, this has resulted in a barrage of stigmatising, fear-mongering media reports, both in the UK and internationally.

Depression is among the most common of mental illnesses, and is experienced by around 20% of adults. Characterised by feelings of guilt, hopelessness and reduced interest in pleasurable activities, it can affect anyone, from manual workers to heads of FTSE companies. Indeed, many successful people have experienced depression – among them Winston Churchill, Charles Dickens and Henri Matisse – and there is virtually no evidence to suggest that the depressed pose a danger to others as a result of their illness. This is true of the full range of mental health problems: the scientific literature is clear that people with schizophrenia, long demonised and reviled by the press, are far more likely to be harmed by others or themselves than to enact violence.

The truth is that people with depression are all around us – they are our teachers and solicitors; our plumbers and health professionals. Data obtained following a recent freedom of information request revealed that more than 40,000 NHS staff took sick leave as a result of stress, anxiety and depression in 2014. Up to 20% of those are likely to be medical doctors; indeed, doctors are significantly more likely to experience depression than the general population. Having depression does not necessarily make you unfit to work, but, based upon the headlines in many of today’s papers you could be forgiven for thinking that it does.
.../...

Media outlets could have used this tragedy to explore the impact of stress and to highlight the need for greater support. Instead some have chosen to vilify Lubitz and, by association, the millions who share his diagnosis. They have taken the easy option. Worse, they have added to the stigmatisation of a group that society already does a superb job of demonising.
_______________________

Posting this just to balance out the discussion. In this earlier thread,
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141050533

someone actually accused me of
'calling them (mental patients) all potential murderers'.

Having been under psych treatment myself, nothing could be further from my intentions.

[Dreamer Tatum]

1. Churchill, Matisse, and Dickens were not pilots with hundreds of lives in their hands.

It is possible to not stigmatize the mentally ill while ensuring that proper safeguards are in place to
protect the public.

[Surya Gayatri]

2. Thank you for this note of 'sanity', no pun intended!

[Fumesucker]

4. Churchill arguably had tens of millions of lives in his hands at one point

"I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears and sweat."

[Dreamer Tatum]

7. Yes, I recall that harrowing story of him flying all of England over the Alps.

For the sake of history, thank heavens he was able to land the island without incident.

[Fumesucker]

9. There is more than one way to have lives in your hands...

JFK and the Cuban missile crisis, Jimmy Carter and the Iranian embassy takeover come to mind.

Decisions of state have life and death power over millions, for instance the over one million civilian deaths in the "war on terror", all brought about by decisions of politicians.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026422076

[Dreamer Tatum]

14. The Native American is disappearing.

That man is a Native American.

Therefore, that man is disappearing.



#figurativespeechfails

[Fumesucker]

33. That pilot made a decision that cost over a hundred people their lives...

Dubya made a decision that cost over a million people, several thousand of them Americans, their lives.

[Dreamer Tatum]

35. "Hi, Fumesucker. This suicidal depressed politician will be helping form US Policy. THIS one...

...will be piloting your aircraft. Enjoy your flight!"

[cwydro]

18. Had to laugh!

[Surya Gayatri]

21. Sorry, not making light of mental illness, but...LOL!

[Blue_Tires]

26. +1

And it's possible to have sympathy for that co-pilot while harshly criticizing his decision to take 149 innocent people with him...

And I say this as a chronically depressed person myself...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. I would be interested to see how the psychiatric and psychological community weigh in on this.

BTW, Churchill had the fate of a nation in his hands...


We certainly don't prevent depressed folks from driving.

[Dreamer Tatum]

5. If they're on an airplane when you ask them, I'll hazard a guess that they don't want him flying. nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. We don't let want people with depression so severe it would require hospitalization flying./NT

[cbdo2007]

30. Do we know if the pilot had "depression so sever it would require hospitalization"?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. I don't know ...I'm just establishing a benchmark./NT

[Surya Gayatri]

6. Lots and lots of broadcast time here in France being spent interviewing

people from the mental health professions.

France is the most tranquillized nation in the world, per capita, and the most psychoanalyzed.

[upaloopa]

11. Are you saying treating mental illness is

tranquilizing people? If so it only points out how ignorant we are about the subject.

[Surya Gayatri]

13. I mean there are more people on tranquilizers in France than in any

other country in the world, per capita.

I'm saying people who take tranquilizers are technically 'tranquilized', as I have been myself on occassion.

[upaloopa]

16. What are the tranquilizers?

Some people claim drugs used to treat mental illness are tranquilizers. I guess you are not saying that.

[Surya Gayatri]

19. Most popular--and prescribed by the ton...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam

In France they don't use the term tranquilizer, but rather 'anxiolytiques' (anxiolytics).

[uppityperson]

23. These are not anti-depressants but a different category, anti-anxiety medicines

There is a huge difference between depression and anxiety. Of course symptoms can overlap, but the disease and treatments are very different.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiolytic

An anxiolytic (also antipanic or antianxiety agent)[1] is a medication or other intervention that inhibits anxiety. This effect is in contrast to anxiogenic agents, which increase anxiety. Together these categories of psychoactive compounds or interventions may be referred to as anxiotropic compounds/agents. Some recreational drugs such as ethanol (alcohol) induce anxiolysis. Anxiolytic medications have been used for the treatment of anxiety and its related psychological and physical symptoms. Anxiolytics have been shown to be useful in the treatment of anxiety disorders. Light therapy and other interventions have also been found to have an anxiolytic effect.[2]

Alprazolam (Xanax)
Bromazepam (Lectopam, Lexotan)
Chlordiazepoxide (Librium)
Clonazepam (Klonopin, Rivotril)
Clorazepate (Tranxene)
Diazepam (Valium)
Flurazepam (Dalmane)
Lorazepam (Ativan)
Oxazepam (Serax, Serapax)
Temazepam (Restoril)
Triazolam (Halcion)

Anti-depression meds used to be mainly those, now are mostly SSRIs (and others of course) but not primarily anxiolytics.

http://www.anxietycoach.com/anxiety-and-depression.html

Anxiety and Depression:
Which one do I have?

People are often unclear about the differences between anxiety and depression, and confused as to which is their primary problem. Here's an explanation of the differences between anxiety and depression, and some comments on the recovery process. However, as always, if you have the troubles described in this article, you are well advised to discuss these problems with a professional therapist.

Anxiety Disorders

Anxiety Disorders are characterized by a sense of doubt and vulnerability about future events. The attention of anxious people is focused on their future prospects, and the fear that those future prospects will be bad. Anxiety Disorders are characterized by a variety of symptoms involving anxious thoughts, unexplained physical sensations, and avoidant or self protective behaviors.

Depression

A person whose primary problem is depression, rather than anxiety, generally doesn't show the same fear and uncertainty that people do with anxiety disorders. Depressed people are not so preoccupied with worrying about what might happen to them in the future. They think they already know what will happen, and they believe it will be bad, the same bad stuff that's happening to them now. The key symptoms of depression include:

* Feeling sad, and/or hopeless
* Lack of interest and enjoyment in activities that used to be fun and interesting
* Physical aches and pains without physical cause; lack of energy
* Difficulty concentrating, remembering, and/or making decisions
* Changes in appetite and weight
* Unwelcome changes in usual sleep pattern
* Thoughts of death and suicide

Depression may come on as a relatively sudden and severe problem, or it may consist of a longer term set of symptoms which are less severe....

[KMOD]

32. I was prescribed an SSRI for anxiety.

a low dose. It worked within 2 weeks. I have not had any anxiety of panic since. My doctor says I'm lucky though, most people have to try many types and doses to find one that works.

[Surya Gayatri]

36. Hi again, UP. Only just happened upon this interesting post from you...

Sometimes it's hard to 'manage' the incomings and outgoings.

The French tend to avoid the term 'antidépresseurs' and use 'anxiolytique' instead as a generic term to cover most mood-altering drugs. Why? Can't say...

Here's a link to a very informative site (but in French). You could run it through Google translator for a rough idea.
http://www.eurekasante.fr/maladies/psychisme/depression-adulte.html?pb=medicaments

Here's a list from the site of the major brandnames prescribed in France:

Antidépresseurs IMAO
MARSILID
MOCLAMINE

Antidépresseurs imipraminiques
ANAFRANIL
CLOMIPRAMINE MYLAN Générique
CLOMIPRAMINE SANDOZ Générique
CLOMIPRAMINE TEVA Générique
DÉFANYL
ÉLAVIL
LAROXYL
LUDIOMIL
PROTHIADEN
QUITAXON
SURMONTIL
TOFRANIL

Antidépresseurs inhibiteurs de la recapture de la sérotonine
CITALOPRAM ALMUS Générique
CITALOPRAM ALTER Générique
CITALOPRAM ARROW Générique
CITALOPRAM BGR Générique
CITALOPRAM CRISTERS Générique
CITALOPRAM EG Générique
CITALOPRAM EVOLUGEN Générique
CITALOPRAM ISOMED Générique
CITALOPRAM MYLAN Générique
CITALOPRAM RANBAXY Générique
CITALOPRAM RATIOPHARM Générique
CITALOPRAM TEVA Générique
CITALOPRAM ZENTIVA Générique
CITALOPRAM ZYDUS Générique
DEROXAT
DIVARIUS
ESCITALOPRAM ALMUS Générique
ESCITALOPRAM ARROW Générique
ESCITALOPRAM BIOGARAN Générique
ESCITALOPRAM CRISTERS Générique
ESCITALOPRAM EG Générique
ESCITALOPRAM EVOLUGEN Générique
ESCITALOPRAM KRKA Générique
ESCITALOPRAM MYLAN Générique
ESCITALOPRAM RANBAXY Générique
ESCITALOPRAM SANDOZ Générique
ESCITALOPRAM TEVA Générique
ESCITALOPRAM ZENTIVA LAB Générique
FLOXYFRAL
FLUOXÉTINE ACTAVIS Générique
FLUOXÉTINE ALMUS Générique
FLUOXÉTINE ALTER Générique
FLUOXÉTINE ARROW Générique
FLUOXÉTINE BIOGARAN Générique
FLUOXÉTINE CRISTERS Générique
FLUOXÉTINE EG Générique
FLUOXÉTINE EVOLUGEN Générique
FLUOXÉTINE ISOMED Générique
FLUOXÉTINE LBR Générique
FLUOXÉTINE MYLAN Générique
FLUOXÉTINE PHR LAB Générique
FLUOXÉTINE RANBAXY Générique
FLUOXÉTINE RATIOPHARM Générique
FLUOXÉTINE SANDOZ Générique
FLUOXÉTINE TEVA Générique
FLUOXÉTINE ZENTIVA Générique
FLUOXÉTINE ZYDUS Générique
FLUVOXAMINE ACTAVIS Générique
FLUVOXAMINE EG Générique
FLUVOXAMINE MYLAN Générique
FLUVOXAMINE TEVA Générique
PAROXÉTINE ACTAVIS Générique
PAROXÉTINE ALTER Générique
PAROXÉTINE ARROW Générique
PAROXÉTINE BIOGARAN Générique
PAROXÉTINE CRISTERS Générique
PAROXÉTINE EG Générique
PAROXÉTINE EVOLUGEN Générique
PAROXÉTINE ISOMED Générique
PAROXÉTINE MYLAN Générique
PAROXÉTINE PHR LAB Générique
PAROXÉTINE RATIOPHARM Générique
PAROXÉTINE RPG Générique
PAROXÉTINE SANDOZ Générique
PAROXÉTINE TEVA Générique
PAROXÉTINE ZENTIVA Générique
PAROXÉTINE ZYDUS Générique
PROZAC
SEROPLEX
SEROPRAM
SERTRALINE ACTAVIS Générique
SERTRALINE ALS Générique
SERTRALINE ALTER Générique
SERTRALINE ARROW Générique
SERTRALINE BIOGARAN Générique
SERTRALINE CRISTERS Générique
SERTRALINE EG Générique
SERTRALINE EVOLUGEN Générique
SERTRALINE ISOMED Générique
SERTRALINE MYLAN Générique
SERTRALINE PFIZER Générique
SERTRALINE RANBAXY Générique
SERTRALINE SANDOZ Générique
SERTRALINE TEVA Générique
SERTRALINE ZENTIVA Générique
SERTRALINE ZYDUS Générique
ZOLOFT

Antidépresseurs inhibiteurs de la recapture de la sérotonine et de la noradrénaline
CYMBALTA
EFFEXOR
IXEL
MILNACIPRAN ARROW Générique
VENLAFAXINE ACTAVIS Générique
VENLAFAXINE ALMUS Générique
VENLAFAXINE ALTER Générique
VENLAFAXINE ARROW Générique
VENLAFAXINE BIOGARAN Générique
VENLAFAXINE BOUCHARA RECORDATI Générique
VENLAFAXINE CRISTERS Générique
VENLAFAXINE EG LABO Générique
VENLAFAXINE EVOLUGEN Générique
VENLAFAXINE ISOMED Générique
VENLAFAXINE KRKA Générique
VENLAFAXINE MYLAN Générique
VENLAFAXINE PFIZER Générique
VENLAFAXINE RANBAXY Générique
VENLAFAXINE RATIOPHARM Générique
VENLAFAXINE SANDOZ Générique
VENLAFAXINE TEVA Générique
VENLAFAXINE ZENTIVA Générique
VENLAFAXINE ZYDUS FRANCE Générique

[Man from Pickens]

10. depression is often a side effect of merely being informed

it's pretty ugly out there and it can be harsh to confront the realities of the situation and realize it is the world you live in, not just a bad dream

[Surya Gayatri]

12. ^^^This!^^^

[Ms. Toad]

15. I'm far more likely to blame treatment, than depression

My daughter lives with anxiety and depression - unmedicated by choice. For a while, she took anti-depressants prescribed by an idiot who decided it was a good idea to abandon her as a patient while she was on about double the dose she should have been on (even without the reaction below). Because he was not monitoring her and asking her the questions he should have been asking, she was unable to distinguish feelings that might have been what is feels like to finally like to be free from depression - from drug fueled mania because of an ideopathic (but not terribly uncommon) reaction to the drugs.

In that state, particularly since she was unaware what she was experiencing was drug induced, she was unable to control her actions and put her life - and the lives of others at risk, although not as dramatically as Lubitz. Fortunately she is only living with the emotional aftermath of having behaved in ways she now finds offensive - and the fear which keeps her away from obtaining proper treatment (whether pharmaceutical or not).

I applaud the call for better and more accessible treatment for those with mental health conditions.

[Surya Gayatri]

17. Thanks, Ms. Toad, for adding this first-hand account to

the discussion.

Your daughter seems to have come out the other side, and doesn't have to live with the regret of having harmed anyone else permanently. Hope she can overcome her fear and get the right doc and meds.

It's not by refusing to discuss depression, bad psych drugs and incompetent mental health professionals that the situation will change for the better.

Discussion is not stigmatization.

[cwydro]

20. They've mentioned he had depression in the past.

But they're only saying that he had an undisclosed medical condition - they've not said it was mental.

[Surya Gayatri]

22. Details will be emerging shortly, I suspect. Plus, they're

interviewing his estranged girlfriend, as we speak.

[cwydro]

25. I wondered when they would

get around to that.

[uppityperson]

24. Thank you for this thread. The lbn thread has a lot of ugly misconceptions in it.

[Surya Gayatri]

27. I hope you're being sincere, Uppityperson. As I said in your

own OP:

I can only speak for myself. My intent in posting a couple of threads about the German co-pilot's mental health status was to elucidate the present and tragic mystery.

Having undergone mental health treatment myself, I do not consider that illuminating the mental illness of the co-pilot equates to 'marginalizing' anyone with mental health issues on this forum.

As you so eloquently say, Uppityperson,
'the common desire after a human caused (or not) tragedy is to look for a precipitating reason to prevent it from happening again.'

And, I agree with another poster in your OP who said some of the stigma might be removed by calling it 'brain disease' rather than mental illness.

[uppityperson]

28. I am and I know, it isn't just you and most likely internet communication issues.

The whole thing sucks and desire to find a cause can too often lead to not a solution but more problems for many people. I can not believe someone would fly a plane into the ground. It is beyond comprehension and heartbreaking for so many. I woke thinking about the principal at the school the students went to, saw a picture of him yesterday and imagined how he had to sit down when he found out it wasn't an accident but deliberate.

Best wishes to you.

[Surya Gayatri]

29. Thanks for the clarification, UP, and best wishes to you, too, my dear.

And my mental images of the families' anguish on learning that it might have been deliberate--just too much to contemplate.

[pansypoo53219]

31. that drug company could be to blame. partly.

[Douglas Carpenter]

37. AMEN!! I have dealt with depression and other serious mental health issues all my life

I suffer to say that there were brief periods of my life were I thought of ending it all. But taking a bunch of innocent people along with me never once crossed my mind.

Remember it is far, far more likely that a mentally ill person will be a victim of violence than a committer of violence.

[Surya Gayatri]

40. Along the same lines...

Don’t stigmatise depression after Germanwings crash, says top doctor

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141052318

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/28/germanwings-plane-crash-alps-depression-doctor

[Yorktown]

38. I can't make sense of the OP

A sizable percentage of people will go through a depression in their lives.
The percentage isn't known exactly because depression is not always reported/detected,
but the percentage could be around 10%. And they deserve treatment, not ostracism.

This having been said, I blame the Germanwings case on the medical condition of Lubitz.
Which appears to have been depression. It's not ostracism, it's an observation.

[Surya Gayatri]

39. Quote is directly from 'The Guardian'...

What do you find nonsensical about it?

Along the same lines...

Don’t stigmatise depression after Germanwings crash, says top doctor

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141052318

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/28/germanwings-plane-crash-alps-depression-doctor

[Marrah_G]

41. Are you saying depression had nothing to do with it?

And I ask that as someone who has suffered for a very long time with Major Depressive Disorder.

Stigmatizing people with depression is not the the same as acknowledging that depression played a factor in his actions.

[Surya Gayatri]

42. Couldn't agree more that 'stigmatizing people with depression is not the the same...

as acknowledging that depression played a factor in his actions.' That's precisely what I've argued elsewhere on this board.

The Guardian article quoted there does not say that depression played no role in this tragedy, just that all sufferers of depression should NOT be tarred with the same brush.

Along the same lines...

Don’t stigmatise depression after Germanwings crash, says top doctor

Dr. Wessely sagely informs the uninitiated public that:
'there is no link between depression and aggressive suicide'.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141052318

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/28/germanwings-plane-crash-alps-depression-doctor

FWIW, I too suffer from bi-polar depression.