For the hardcore Hillary supporters, I offer this famous quote...

[It is Tuesday]

I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign.

--Harry S Truman, May 17, 1952

---

Let's wait until the primary season start and the true star of the Democratic Party will emerge.

[leftofcool]

1. More anti-Hillary horseshit!

If you really think there are any Dems on this board who will vote for a Republican, you haven't been here very long. Yes, there are some anti-Hillary voters here but they will not I assure you vote for a Republican!

[rhett o rick]

5. The pro-Clinton group has only offered one reason to support her and that is that she is the

only possible Democrat that can win in 2016. The OP isn't addressing how posters on DU feel but how the general public feels.

For example in 2008 Clinton didn't win because she was too conservative. Same thing happened in 2000. We need change not 8 more years of status quo Wall Street domination.

Some choose winning over principles. We need someone to stand up for the 99%.

[ripcord]

15. If we don't get a candidate the represents true democratic values

I just won't vote, I'm tired of right of center democrats.

[TNNurse]

16. I understand but not voting

is voting Republican.

[ripcord]

18. Then run a real candidate

As long as we are willing to settle we will just keep getting the same types of candidates.

[creeksneakers2]

47. If there was enough demand

for a candidate you'd like one would run. If you are part of a small minority its unfair to expect not having to compromise.

[merrily]

129. Untrue. People who don't want a Third Wayer are not the minority and few if any

are going to run if those who wield power in the Party are discouraging them from running.

The idea that things happen because of the grass roots is a joke. Peaceful protest by party loyalists--does that even exist?--can cause minor, and often temporary, changes in actions and maybe even big changes in rhetoric. But the direction of the Party is determined by the Party's power brokers and its big donors/PACs.

[JDPriestly]

131. Have you read this article on NAFTA and the TPP?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026434828#post26

Bill Clinton signed NAFTA. Hillary was in charge of the State Department and inextricably tied to the negotiation of the TPP.

Americans don't like either one.

You may find that in fact only a small minority of Americans will support Hillary when the facts about the Clintons emerge (and they are emerging).

We need a strong candidate who will reform our government and our financial and corporate sectors so that we have a fairer society for everyone.

Don't say it can't happen. It has happened before. Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt are good examples of presidents who reformed our country and made it better. We are dur for another round of progressive reform.

[Dustlawyer]

135. The MSM marginalizes any true Progressive. Bernie was marginalized before he ever got started.

Any mention of him includes how he has no chance before he is heard to prevent just that, people hearing what he has to say. It's a self-fulfilling prophesy.

[MissDeeds]

53. Supporting a candidate who embodies

Republican ideals IS voting for a Republican...no matter what letter is behind his/her name.

[-none]

71. Very well said.

And it almost fits on a bumper sticker.

[MissDeeds]

73. Thanks

and welcome to DU!

[Sheepshank]

165. no, it's not very well said

show me one republican candidtate that will fight for abortion rights. Show me one Republican candidate that will active promote increase in minimum wage, etc etc etc.

Your flimsy attempt at promoting the idealogy that DEM=REP is a a nasty, fucking lie.

[-none]

166. That is not what MissDeeds said, nor implied.

Not at all. What MissDeeds basically meant was there are Republicans masquerading as Democrats. That is not the same thing as actually being a Democrat just because they sport a (D) by the name.

53. Supporting a candidate who embodies

Republican ideals IS voting for a Republican...no matter what letter is behind his/her name.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026433084#post53

[Sheepshank]

167. Of course it was.....pissing little post spouting lies

and there you are ready to protect the statement when we both know she was talking about HRC since it was the direction of the thread.
HRC is like a republican...she said it, you are supporting it and I'm calling it out....just like I said I would just a couple of days ago.

We have a whole slew of Republican front runners. When not tell me which one of those is like a Democrat. Or better still tell me which Democrat is like one of those Republicans.

Telling the voting public that is doesn't matter what letter is behind their name is the biggest shit load of crap, putrid, lying, Right Wing tactic, I've seen going on here lately.

[bettyellen]

178. Agreed, the meme D=R is complete bullshit.

[ripcord]

82. It seems that our candidates keep moving to the right

And it seems many democrats are fine with that. 20 months before the election and people are pushing another right of center democrat to the front, it does not bode well for us. A times comes when you have to say enough is enough.

[MissDeeds]

83. Those of us who are left of center

need to hold the line and not move to the center or right of center. We're often brow beaten into "vote for our candidate or you're voting for the Republican". That nonsense has to stop. Democratic candidates must embody Democratic ideals or they are not Democrats. We have to stop holding our noses and voting for the lesser of two evils. We need the real deal. Many of us here will settle for nothing less.

[ripcord]

84. It is scarey

We have some "democrats" who are trying to get us to compromise our ideals and if you don't you are "persona nongrada".

[MissDeeds]

89. Perhaps 'they' are persona non-grata

Democratic ideals are time tested and not new wave, watered down tripe. Honestly, as a Democrat of many years, I know what the party has stood for since the time of my grandparents. It's values and tenets are not negotiable. We stand for the people, the working classes, unions, and against big business and special interests. Our party cannot be bought by the highest bidder and sold to special interests. Our party stood for something good and right. I will never again hold my nose and vote for the lesser of two evils, because, as many here have said, that's still evil. Now is the time for the best we have to offer.

[rhett o rick]

90. I find it incredible that "politically liberal" posters can't figure that out. nm

[Chan790]

101. +1 more. n/t :)

[840high]

110. Yep.

[merrily]

130. The straw man about the parties not being identical is going to

say "boo" to you in 5-4-3-2.....

I hear if you laugh loudly enough, straw men run away. Sure, they scurry back the next time, but keep laughing at them. Laughter is good for you.

[merrily]

128. We ALL understand that, but how do you suggest changing the direction of the Party,

especially when it appears to seek to avoid primary challenges?

[revmclaren]

36. Ahhh, another 'No Way'.

See my previous post ...link below...that describes you perfectly and tells you how I feel about non democrats like you on a democratic forum.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251400587

And don't bother responding to me... I don't listen to 'No Ways' or their supporters.



GOTV or GO AWAY!

Edit... My only repy will be 'persona non grata' a big thank you to the NoWay who kindly corrected my spelling since they new exactly what they were and how to correctly spell it.

[ripcord]

43. I don't think you can understand how little what you think matters to me.

[revmclaren]

46. You're persona nongrada....

[ripcord]

48. Do you perhaps mean persona non grata?

I don't change my views based on what random people on the internet say. I am though voting for candidates who move further and further to the right.

[revmclaren]

49. Persona non grata...

[revmclaren]

44. And I bookmarked your post

for alll those who will claim that no one on DU is saying they won't vote.

[Hekate]

88. There's a good handful right in this thread, isn't there?

[Chan790]

98. You don't have to bookmark them...point them out...

I'm more than happy to tell them that I will never cast a ballot for Hillary Clinton.

Every day I make a point to say that on here at-least once so that there is no question about it. Hillary is the enemy. Priority #1 for me is opposing her candidacy for President. Everything else pales compared to keeping that corporatist quisling out of the White House. If we lose the Presidency or Ginsburg's seat on SCOTUS as a result...it's her supporters' fault, they had every opportunity to spike Hillary's candidacy. I don't vote for Republicans, even ones running as Democrats like the Clintons and their surrogates.

Also, glad to help.

[Katashi_itto]

122. Add me too, I'll Be having waffles election day if Hillary is the choice. The Waffle Abides.

[Sarcastica]

65. I will be active in the primary to make sure that the issues I value are aired.

In the end I will vote for the Democartaic candidate. I am not a "if I don't get my way, It'll throw a temper tantrum" Democrat. It seems we already have enough of those.

[Hekate]

87. By all means stay home and console yourself with the new GOP majority

[Chan790]

99. If it means the end of Clintonism... n/t

[lobodons]

22. We got change!!

We got HUGE change!! We changed from Alito and Roberts nominations to Kagan and Sotomayor. To me that is HUGE change!! I also know that Hillary's nominations will be much preferable than those of Bush, Walker, Cruz, Rubio, Huckabee or god forbid Pence.

[rhett o rick]

39. Sorry but we have 22% of American children living in poverty and 45% living in

low income homes. I am impatient but we must change our economy, our support of the MIC and get control of the NSA/CIA Security State. If we don't get that change, IMO we will continue to slide into tyranny.

[Chan790]

100. When they promised us change...

we didn't think they meant the loose coins from their pockets.

Better than Hillary Clinton though, she would have stolen the loose coins from our pockets and given it to her Wall St. friends.

[whopis01]

31. At least until the primaries are over. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

33. No ...

though I am not of the Pro-Clinton Group (I am, however, of the Democrats don't trash Democrats Group) ... I do not think you have accurately described their position.

[rhett o rick]

41. Please direct me to their position. I have repeatedly asked.

I am a Democrat and by my definition we speak out against those that do not uphold Democratic principles irregardless of their self described party affiliation. Never liked Lieberman, for example.

[1StrongBlackMan]

52. I think you can find the Pro-HRC's reason for supporting her candidacy ...

in the HRC Group ... because their political calculations have her as the only candidate able to win the 2016 Presidency, is just but one of their reasons (and a minor one at that) for their support.

[rhett o rick]

54. I have only been there once and they banned me. I didn't even say anything bad. nm

[Major Hogwash]

55. They blocked you from their group?

Damn, you must be dangerous!!!!!!

[rhett o rick]

91. I think anyone with an open mind is concidered dangerous to those that

don't have open minds. Just sayin'.

[Major Hogwash]

108. I'll keep that in mind.

I think Skinner made a boo-boo when he created that particular group.
He shouldn't have created groups like that until those candidates made an official announcement to run for President.

But, you know Skinner!
He'll give the people whatever they want, even new groups for people that aren't even running for President.

Heavens to Murgatroyd, what a spot we're in, what a spot!

[rhett o rick]

109. I have absolutely no problem with groups like the BOG and HRC. I do think it's a bit childish

to not give warnings and give temp blocks like they do in the EW and PRG Groups. But it's their group so I really don't care.

[sheshe2]

152. I'm a BOG host, Rhett.

I always give warnings. I have even reinstated someone that asked. They wanted to apologize in the BOG. I try to be fair and to be honest, I have only blocked a few.

[rhett o rick]

153. I would expect nothing less from you sheshe2. Forgive my generalizations. nm

[sheshe2]

161. Thank you, Rhett.

[1StrongBlackMan]

58. Well ...

Being banned from a Group doesn't stop one from reading what is said in that Group. So if you truly wish to correct your mistaken understanding of Pro-Clinton folks, you will read ... and reading, with one's mouth closed can do wonders for comprehension.

Secondly, I'll match the statement that got you banned from the HRC Group against the statement that got me banned from the Elizabeth Warren Group, a comment that didn't speak negatively of Senator Warren or Warren Supporters.

I wonder which post people would find more ban-worthy.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. You defended our president from the accusation he was a cipher and a dilettante.

As I said in that thread the accuser isn't worth one fine hair on Barack Obama's ass...

[1StrongBlackMan]

67. And ...

I was the one banned. Imagine that? But a quick look at the Hosts will solve that puzzle.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

68. Sir, you should wear your ban like The Medal Of Freedom/NT

[1StrongBlackMan]

70. I just found out, I wasn't banned; just, Blocked ...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

74. What's the difference? /NT

[1StrongBlackMan]

78. I guess if I ask proper and promise to mind my ways, the Host will re-bless me. n/t

[sheshe2]

163. Bwaaahahahaha!

[Major Hogwash]

66. You weren't banned, you were blocked.

And blocking can be reversed by the group hosts.

[1StrongBlackMan]

69. Oh ... Okay ...

[Major Hogwash]

80. There is a difference.

The BOG hosts removed the block from 2 DU members so they could post again in the BOG.
Since you had stated that you had been blocked from Warren's group, I thought you would like to know the actions of the hosts can be reversed.

[1StrongBlackMan]

85. Thank you. n/t

[rhett o rick]

92. Maybe for posts like this, " and reading, with one's mouth closed can do wonders for

comprehension," That's outright rude.

[tammywammy]

96. That's a really nasty thing to say. n/t

[1StrongBlackMan]

103. I meant reading and knowing ...

You don't have to/can't respond. That allows one to read what is there, not one's reflexive response from scanning what was written.

Why do people immediately jump to the insult?

Anyway, I apologize since you took that to be a swipe at you.

[Chan790]

105. You're in good company...

I'm pretty sure I'm banned too and I've never even been there.

Not going to go to find out, either.

[rhett o rick]

107. LOL. Nothing lost. nm

[lewebley3]

62. You are crazy there thousands of Reasons to Support Hillary: You need do some reading!!!

She can win is short hand for persons having what it takes to win!!
Hillary, accomplishments, would take pages and pages to write.

You need to go to a library, learn about Hillary, she can win
because those who know her, and her talents , accomplishments are
a vast. Beyond that she is a fighter for the Democrats, I think
she can take on the repubs a lot better than Obama did, and
he has done well.

She also will have Obama out there with her Campaigning with her,
if she runs on his record she will just fine.

[Major Hogwash]

64. I think you hit the nail right on the head, bro.

If we can't turn this bus around from the direction it is heading now, we're going right back in to the ditch!

[cheapdate]

93. I'm not "pro-Clinton", I'm pro-Democrat.

Last edited Mon Mar 30, 2015, 12:44 AM - Edit history (1)

After Hillary Clinton, some of the other prominent names that have been suggested as candidates for the Democratic nomination include: Elizabeth Warren, Joe Biden, Andrew Cuomo, Martin O'Malley, Mark Warner, Kirsten Gillibrand, Amy Klobuchar, Brian Schweitzer, and Jim Webb.

Bernie Sanders has also suggested he could run as a Democrat.

Most of these people aren't substantially any different from HRC in their basic outlook on economics, business, government, social justice, etc., which is not to say that they're all the same. They're not. But the differences aren't really all that great.

Warren has all but sworn a blood oath that she's not running. Bernie Sanders is loved by those who are intensely dialed in to left-wing political philosophy, but it's an open question how well he would do in a general election.

I don't "choose winning over principles". My principles are better served with a Democrat in the White House rather than a Republican. It's as simple as that.

[Sheepshank]

164. "...in 2008 Clinton didn't win because she was too conservative"

I've never read that anywhere but here on DU amongst the anti HRC crowd. Were there actual polling data to support that supposition?

[rhett o rick]

171. Is there data to refute the statement?

Candidate Obama was markedly more progressive than HRC and he won. He has since revealed to us that he was only kidding and is essentially as conservative as HRC.

[Sheepshank]

172. OMFG...really?

now you're just makimg up shit.
Using your logic, I could say that she lost because USA wasn't ready for women, or that it was time for a black president or that the world hates blondes.

Post #171 has to be the stupidest post on this thread.

[rhett o rick]

173. My fault. I forgot you can't hold a discussion w/o insults like, "Post #171 has to be the stupidest

post on this thread." Why do you choose insults instead of countering the argument*. If you don't agree, provide a counter argument.



*The question is rhetorical. I know why. Go insult someone else.

[gregcrawford]

17. To hard-core Hillarites:

Hillary Rodham Clinton supports the Trans-Pacific Partnership. That should not be forgotten, and cannot be forgiven.

(SFX: Sound of microphone dropping)

[lark]

29. Hello!

Who appointed every single one of the American delegates and who chose to pick corporate lobbyist and not pro labor, environmentalists or populists? Who is seeking fast track? Give you a clue - it wasn't Hillary. If you dislike Hillary for TPP, you must truly hate Obama for it. Sounds like you are giving him a pass for doing something truly heinous but trying to make it like Hillary did this. I call total BS.

[cascadiance]

142. I have no like for Obama either. His putting Emmanuel in charge of his staff was an early signal...

... of what was to come in his administration. He won because he was more nebulous during his campaigning in the primaries of what "Hope and Change" really meant. Traditional Democrats looking for progressive change voted for that as a better choice than Clinton who was more clear on her support for centrist crap like taking a more warlike stance with Iran, etc.

TPP is bad as well as those who supported it and NAFTA, which has both Obama and the Clinton family in that crowd.

Clinton is also on record for supporting H-1B expansion, which is more outsourcing of American jobs too (which is especially personal for me right now).

[lark]

162. They are both way too corportist for my taste.

While I voted for neither during the primaries, I have a feeling I will end up voting for both as president just to avoid the batshit crazy assholes who represent the other side. Don't like it, but the alternative is worse.

[gregcrawford]

154. Never fear, Obama did NOT get a pass

I continue to condemn Obama for wanting to fast-track the TPP. I loved the guy, until he appointed Summers and Geithner. Then I knew he'd been in Goldman Sachs pocket from Day One.

Obama will be gone in 2 years, but whoever runs on the Democratic ticket will either carry on his support of this corporate coup d'etat, or oppose it. Clinton's made it clear where she comes down on this topic, and she is the subject of the discussion, not Obama.

Try not to get BS all over your shoes.

[lark]

160. Truth isn't BS

my lovely suede boots are safe. Thanks.

[Renew Deal]

177. But can it be proven?

Link?

[ybbor]

20. This has nothing to do with how people on DU will vote

If all elections were only based on us, I'm betting we would be pretty happy.

However, the rest of the voting public is what it is concerned with. And I tend to agree with ol' Harry's wisdom here.

[zeemike]

26. Yep it is not about us it is about them.

The right and left votes are a lock in...it is the rest we are fighting to get...and if we offer them the same thing they will have no option but to not vote or vote to spite...and then we lose.

[Major Hogwash]

79. We had Harry's comment come back on us like a wildfire here in Idaho in 2010.

We finally got one of them so-called "Democrats" elected to be a Representative for Idaho in the U.S. House of Representatives in 2008.
Problem was, he disagreed with many of the Democratic party's goals.
So, even though he was elected as a Democrat, he was acting more like a Republican than as a Democrat while he was in Washington on all of the important issues.

Not a surprise to many people here in Boise, because we knew him quite well.
As a former Republican who had worked in Nixon's White House!!
He switched parties sometime around 2004 in order to be elected to national office.
He was still a Republican deep down, though.
He simply talked like a Democrat in order to win his race in 2008.

He only lasted 1 term in the House!
2 short years!
Thank the gods!
Because he voted against the ACA!!!

Check it out, here is a short bio --
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Minnick

[zentrum]

156. Exactly. n/t

[paleotn]

27. two words....nose plugs. (nt)

[tularetom]

30. I will not vote for a republican, I promise you

Whether the candidate has an "R" or a "D" after their name, I know what constitutes a republican.

And I won't vote for them.

[RiverLover]

133. Me either.

The Clintons opened the Democratic Party to incorporating republican/conservative principles via triangulated 'centrism'. Its time to close that door.

The party platform we should have, if republicans hadn't infiltrated the party~
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12775284

If we work together, we can do ^this. But I'm finished with enabling.

[lewebley3]

51. Agreed with you Leftcool. Hillary supports the democratic party: The party supports the New Deal

These posting against Hillary are nothing but lies, is has proven
she is a loyal. People bashing her are trolls that can be from, repubs
to Dems helping the repubs.

Loyal, or progressives don't bash and lie about other Dems, they
should get their own candidate to support if don't support Hillary
not bash her and lie about her.

[PatrickforO]

81. I hear what you're saying, but that isn't the 'take' I got from the Truman quote.

We must all remember that once the primary is over, then the candidates must face off in a general election.

According to Gallup, a record 42% of American voters classify themselves as INDEPENDENTS. 31% identify as Democrats and 25% as Republicans. It is the independent voters who cannot stand candidates who seem like they are trying to be something else. America is quite hungry for a populist message. We'll see how Clinton does in the primary, but even her hard core supporters have to admit she is more corporate than populist.

If we had someone who talked and acted like FDR, that person would SWEEP the election and they would have very long coat tails.

[merrily]

126. Surely, there is a more civil way to respond to the OP. All he or she

posted against Hillary after all was a very famous--and, IMO, very true, quotation by a Democratic President who appears on almost every list of the ten best Presidents in all of US history.

[stonecutter357]

132. K&R!

[zentrum]

155. Truman was not talking about DU.

Truman was not talking about the core.

He was talking about the vast middle, what we call the Independents—who are not politically involved or informed but who only show up on election day and choose a candidate based on the two months of media coverage that precedes the election.

Of course, we'll never vote for a Republican—and that's not his point. He's talking about giving the "average American" a clear cut analysis and a real choice.

And by the way—in 2012, most of the people who would normally have voted Democratic—stayed home. That's what Truman is talking about and what we need to avoid in 2016.

[L0oniX]

2. K & R

[gregcrawford]

19. I keep trying to squash that damned bug!

[drray23]

3. nice quote but i think its no longer applicable.

Putting that in historical context, republicans a few generations ago were relatively moderate and had an agenda that included supporting social welfare and unions. Looking at Eisenhower's political platform makes it pretty clear.

What Harry Truman said then is no longer applicable today. The GOP has gone so far right that there is no way a democratic voter would chose a republican instead, especially given the current crop of candidates on the GOP side. Not one of them is reasonable.

Hilary may not be perfect but she supports the vast majority of the democratic agenda. Granted, she may lean a little towards center on some issues but I will take that any day versus a tea party type.

If we want somebody else than Hilary, then the work has to happen before and during the primary and we have to have a viable candidate. So far,the good ones like Warren or Sanders have not even announced they would run.

The vast majority of left leaning voters are not leaning as left as most of us here on DU. They will go for a candidate like Hilary over a Ted Cruz any day. The real battle lies in the middle with the so called independents.

[jeff47]

6. The error is your assumption that all voters go to the polls every election.

The GOP has gone so far right that there is no way a democratic voter would chose a republican instead

They won't. They just won't bother to vote.

So far,the good ones like Warren or Sanders have not even announced they would run.

Neither has Clinton.

The real battle lies in the middle with the so called independents.

The independents are not in the middle. "Independent" voters always vote for one party, when they bother to vote. They do not vote Democratic one election and Republican the next. They vote Democratic one election and stay home the next.

Going right will not earn a Democratic candidate any votes. They will not turn a Republican-leaning independent. The only effect will be turning off Democratic-leaning independents.

[mountain grammy]

8. Well said.

Independents are not in the middle. They are committed to nothing and have no problem not voting.

[drray23]

10. voter participation is a problem

I was rejecting the notion that a bona fide democrat would go for a Ted Cruz over a dem candidate just because he is more "authentic". Not voting is indeed another outcome that has been plaguing us for a while now.

I do not disagree with that point but that is an issue we have to address anyway.

Regarding Hilary, I chose to talk about her in my post because thats what the OP was about. I will happily support any reasonable dem candidate instead of her once we have some running for president. Yes, she has not announced yet either but its very likely she will.

Barack Obama managed to motivate these independents to go to the polls. Being able to do that again will be key. Does this mean fielding a candidate that is further left ? I am not convinced this will work. It will resonate with the base but not the independents.

We have demographics going for us as this country is getting more diverse. The latino vote for example is starting to grow to proportions that are even starting to make Texas competitive, at least for local and state races. Virginia, where I live has turned blue in the last few presidential elections and we also have full control of all the executive positions. The house is still dominated by the republicans but that is largely in part due to the gerrymandering.

How does this pan out in 2016 ? hard to tell.

[jeff47]

12. Well, let's take a look at recent history to see if it will work.

2014: Democratic party goes right. Loses badly.
2012: Democratic party goes center-left. Wins.
2010: Democratic party goes right. Loses badly.
2008: Democratic party goes center-left (with speeches that sound even more left). Wins big.
2006: Democratic party goes center-left. Wins.
2004: Democratic party goes right. Loses badly.
2002: Democratic party goes far right. Loses very badly.
2000: Democratic party goes right. Loses.
1998: Democratic party goes center. Barely wins.
1996: Democratic party goes "We're in charge and the economy's great!!". Wins.
1994: Democratic party goes right. Loses.
1992: Democratic party goes right. Wins due to libertarians voting for Perot.

Would seem to be a pattern there...

We have demographics going for us as this country is getting more diverse.

No, we don't. Turnout is low among those groups. Part of why we need to abandon "Third Way"-style politics is we need those people to turn out.

[1StrongBlackMan]

35. 2008 and 2012 ...

the party goes behind President Obama and that is center-left?

I could have sworn that DU has President Obama center-right ... at best.

[jeff47]

75. Depends if you measure against the U.S. Or the world

In the U.S., he's governed center-left. Worldwide, he'd be in a mainstream right party.

That's part of the reason we need to stop trying to move to the right.

[bravenak]

38. That is exactly how I see it. +1nt

[marym625]

112. agree

We don't hold true to ourselves, then even if we win, we lose.

[creeksneakers2]

50. Assignments

to left or right in your list seem pretty arbitrary. I don't see a major difference between the party of 2012 and the one of 2014 for example.

[jeff47]

72. You don't see a difference between Obama running for reelection

in 2012 and the "I won't even say if I voted for Obama" style 2014 campaigns.

Yeah. Sure. Completely identical. Remember how Obama refused to say he voted for himself?

[Major Hogwash]

61. ^Post of the Day^

Shit, that post should be its own OP!!!

20 years of trying to woo rightwingers to our side hasn't worked.
Billo the Klown has been on Faux Snooze for 15 years, 15 fucking years, man!!!!!!
And we all know what a POS used car salesman that SOB is!!!!

[treestar]

7. Thank you

If it was not dumb when Truman said it, it is now.

[drray23]

4. excerpt from Eisenhower's political platform

Assure equal pay for equal work regardless of Sex;

Clarify and strengthen the eight-hour laws for the benefit of workers who are subject to federal wage standards on Federal and Federally-assisted construction, and maintain and continue the vigorous administration of the Federal prevailing minimum wage law for public supply contracts;

Extend the protection of the Federal minimum wage laws to as many more workers as is possible and practicable;

Continue to fight for the elimination of discrimination in employment because of race, creed, color, national origin, ancestry or sex;

Provide assistance to improve the economic conditions of areas faced with persistent and substantial unemployment;

Revise and improve the Taft-Hartley Act so as to protect more effectively the rights of labor unions, management, the individual worker, and the public.


Now, contrast that with today's GOP platform and DNC platform and figure out which one is closer..

Of note is that most of these goals, we still have not achieved them in 2015. We were well on our way when Reagan happened and everything took a step back. We are now in a situation were not only can we not strengthen most of that, we are losing ground with the GOP governors dismantling the social net and labor laws.

[Major Hogwash]

9. So true.

Yet, some of these people couldn't help themselves to start the 2016 election soon enough, they started talking about it right after the 2012 election.
They're not going to wait for candidates, they're just going to talk about them being the inevitable.

[daleanime]

11. K&R.....

[stevenleser]

13. Try coming up with something new that matters and not a trite quote we all know. nt

[It is Tuesday]

14. Sometimes a gentle reminder is needed..

That's all..

[lobodons]

21. 600 Dems gave us Alito and Roberts on SCOTUS

600 Dems who did not support the Dem Candidate in Florida in 2000 gave us Roberts and Alito and a 5-4 Conservative court for 20 years. If Dems do not support whoever the Dem is in 2016, it will become worse. SCOTUS will become 6-3 Conservative (possibly 7-2) for the next 30 years.

[Buzz Clik]

23. Hillary has been apologizing for Democratic policies? Which ones? When?

[JaneyVee]

24. The Discussionist crew has arrived! Church over already?

[It is Tuesday]

111. Uhhhh.. What's a Discussionist crew?

I've never heard of it, to be honest...

[zentricity]

25. Bullshit...

I know I barely comment here, but read all...One thing I've noticed and perhaps I am imagining things, is that there is an abundance of republican trolls who it seems constantly try to divide...I would never ever vote Republican by the way!

[B Calm]

28. Republican propaganda?

[WillyT]

104. Harry Truman Is Republican Propaganda ??? - You Forget The Sarcasm Thingy...

[B Calm]

114. Harry Truman didn't know Hillary.

[imthevicar]

148. LOL, Oh yes he did.

not personally, but phonies just like her! They're a dime a dozen!

Shouted By someone in the audience, "Give em Hell Harry!"

HST, "I don't have to, I just give em the truth and they think it's hell!"

[B Calm]

168. Who are you supporting on the democratic ticket? Why are you tearing down Hillary instead of

educating others how good your candidate is? Is your only agenda here is to divide the party?

[imthevicar]

183. B Calm,

Be Calm. I already support Bernie Sanders, However traditionally voters support Governors. What the democrats need is a candidate who is squeeky clean, But an unapologetic Liberal lion, not some Dino ready to sell out the Poor and soon to be poor (The class formally known as Middle.) out to game tilting treaties like the TPP, and Nafta. It is more the truth that The only time people like this are seen among the great unwashed, is when they are fishing for votes.

[MrMickeysMom]

32. K&R… This quote touches many points in history and should be understood...

Those who ignore history are destine to suffer through it in "their time". What a great quote to point out why Democrats should commit to ACT like Democrats… not the same party across the isle. I'm tired of the ankle grabbing.

I am so sick and tired of those who claim to stand by Democratic ideas, which EXACTLY supports the progress of democracy BY the New Deal.

I am disgusted by what HRC may have once wanted to be, and never followed through, once entering the inner sanctum. The true test of vision and Democratic leadership is best exemplified by FDR, and where JFK stood ready to take the United States. HRC ISN'T riding along on THAT peace train.

Welcome to DU…

[BeanMusical]

34. +1

[Thinkingabout]

37. Who are the hard core anti Hillary people? I can answer that one

To start with put the GOP as head of the table with their RW talking points. The next ones are those who believe the RW talking points.

Why am I a Hillary supporter, because she supports Democratic issues, is a proven advocate of middle class needs. So far I have not found another candidate who has her experience and a broad base on issues important to the 90%.

[William769]

40. ...

[rhett o rick]

121. I won't vote for anyone that didn't stand up to George Bush when it was needed the most.

I don't care if she advocates for social values that I agree with. She let us down at the single most important time in our recent history. How can you hold Bush accountable and not her?

[Thinkingabout]

123. Is this your new issue?

[rhett o rick]

124. New issue? I was yelling at the TV when the turncoat Democrats in 2002 turned their backs on

Democrats, American, the Free World and Iraq, and bowed down to George Bush a lying Republican. I said right then and there, that those turncoats were dead to me. Where were the checks and balances. H. Clinton actually helping Bush sell his lies. We can and must do better.

[stonecutter357]

134. woowoo.

[Thinkingabout]

151. Hey, I am from the south, should I still be upset the south lost the war?

[stonecutter357]

174. ?

what an idiotic thing to say.

[Thinkingabout]

175. Perhaps because you do not understand.

[stonecutter357]

181. i woowooed rhett not you and i think you need one now.

post121

[Thinkingabout]

182. What?

[sabrina 1]

150. Is Hillary running?

[RufusTFirefly]

42. The logic of lesser evilism

Fascinating article by Andrew Levine.

Some memorable quotes:

"Myopic voters focus narrowly on personalities and policies, and therefore fail to take all pertinent considerations into account. Another danger is not looking far enough ahead."

"But once the lesser evil threshold is crossed, it does seem that the choices keep getting worse...Still, lesser evil voting does seem to feed upon itself – hastening a downward trend."

"...Republicans are there to make voting for the Democrat seem the clear lesser evil choice."

"Social and economic elites do the politics, and then, when election time comes, they sell the voting public on the results they want – calling on the people to legitimize the outcomes with their votes... Elites do not always get the candidates or parties they favor – indeed, they disagree among themselves — but they always win. And, needless to say, the election will have nothing to do with changing the world for the better."

[rhett o rick]

125. I think it's a CT. The Powers That Be fund the teaparty to make the Republicons

despicable. They also fund the Third Way Democrats. The lemmings in the Democratic Party will go right off the cliff happy because at least they got to vote for a Democrat. The Left has been completely marginalized. Fuck Rahmbo.

[RufusTFirefly]

127. Yup. I'm afraid you've got it.

"It’s not a real choice. It’s an apparent choice. Like choosing a brand of detergent. Whether you buy Ivory Snow or Tide, they’re both owned by Proctor & Gamble.

"This doesn’t mean that one takes a position that is without nuance, that the Congress and the BJP, New Labor and the Tories, the Democrats and Republicans are the same. Of course, they’re not. Neither are Tide and Ivory Snow. Tide has oxy-boosting and Ivory Snow is a gentle cleanser."

-- Arundhati Roy

[Maedhros]

157. Not lesser, just different. [n/t]

[former9thward]

45. A well known quote but the problem with it

is that before that election Democrats had control of the House, Senate and Presidency. After the election Republicans had won all three.

[lewebley3]

56. This post is nothing but lies about Hillary: it could have been written by repub:

Hillary has 80% support in the Democratic base, she has Obama
on her side. If she and he: go out and campaign on his record she
can't lose. Obama did not win the primary, he did not reach
the total about delegates need for the nomination. He was give
the nomination because no one was going to take it away for
Obama. Hillary won all the Big states, Obama won caucus
states. Hillary was called by the GOP so liberal she was call
a communist.(by Brabra Olsen a GOP right wing leader.

Stop this nonsense about Hillary being a Republican,
she has put her life on the line for 30 years for the
democratic party.

[It is Tuesday]

57. Uhhhh

[TheKentuckian]

158. The hail of bullets was another lie, her life has never been in danger for the party or

anything else.

What she has gotten is prosperous and powerful. If you want someone who has lives on the line talk to a homeless mother. If you want someone who has actually put life and limb on the line and is still in far greater danger daily than Clinton has ever seen there are plenty of homeless veterans being ignored out there for you to interview.

[lewebley3]

159. People who Become President are not poor: Hillary is only worth 21 million.

Last edited Mon Mar 30, 2015, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)

The Koch her opponents, every year earn 40Billion, She is poor compared to
the rest of GOP and donors.
You need to go to a library and read about Hillary,
when she was young she spent years down in Texas,
signing up the poor up to vote.
Anyone who puts themselves out in public to be judged
is risking their lives. The NRA right GOP groups are always
threating people with their guns that they don't agree with!
Anyone who stand up to the right wing in this country is
brave, Hillary is top of their list of hates.

If Hillary had not prospered, you would not considered her a
candidate for the President: you would be calling her a failure.

Hillary and Bill have seen more vets than you have: and Secondly
she supports a democratic party that does also.
Its is the GOP that hates the vets, and votes against them, don't
bash Hillary who would help the vet, against the GOP who would not!!

[lewebley3]

184. Homeless people don't become President of US: It takes a Rich person!! Hopefully one with a Heart

Last edited Thu Apr 2, 2015, 07:56 PM - Edit history (1)

Hillary, is poor compared to her opponents, she doesn't have trust fund inherited
money. She has been a public servant most of her life. She could have had tripled
the amount of money she has: had she not wanted to work for the American people.

Bill and Hillary run one of the best Charities, not because of money they are
able to raises ( and the do that well) , it is success because of the amount of people it has helped.

Bill and Hillary have worked for the poor, and needy with competence and intelligence
and the benefits to them have enormous.

You need to do some reading about Hillary before you make the claim that she doen't
get the poor.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

59. I have never voted Republican in my life, not even for sheriff...

My first cast was for Ted Kennedy in the 1980 Florida primary.

I am confident I am capable of choosing that Democrat who best represents me and can actually win.

[Rex]

60. What if I am just a lukewarm Hillary supporter? Anything for me or am I just chopped liver?

[Man from Pickens]

76. Only lukewarm?

That is an insufficient level of loyalty to Her Majesty. You are advised to seek out and immediately correct the grave flaws within yourself that cause this condition - should you take too long, we will have to send a squad to deal with this situation. This is your first and only warning.

[still_one]

77. Why not focus on a candidate you support instead of setting up

A straw man for a Potential Democratic candidate you don't care for?

[tammywammy]

95. That seems to be an alien concept to many here.

And the primary hasn't even started.

[It is Tuesday]

113. Correct. I have someone else in mind, but at this point...

No Democratic members have announced that they are seeking the Democratic nomination for the President of the United States...

I'm sure the Clintonites will be expecting Hillary Clinton announcing herself at 12:00"00 am EST on April 1st...

(then later announce "April Fool's!&quot

[Hekate]

86. Another newbie who I'm sure will fit right in at GD

[zappaman]

94. You better believe it!

[joeybee12]

97. Thank God! You can turn a 63-year-old quote by Truman...

and make it all about HIlary! FFS, this sh*t is unbelievable.

[WillyT]

102. Huge K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

106. It seems the Democratic party has spoken... And we're not the ones out of step...

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-who-would-americans-consider-voting-for-in-2016/


It reminds me of when I was in the first grade and I forgot to wear a tie for our class photo and I thought everybody else was dressed inappropriately...

[B Calm]

115. It's getting pretty obvious what's going on here. We have posters with less than 100 total posts

trying to divide the democratic party.

[quickesst]

116. really.....

......member since about 2004, so please don't mistake me for some right wing troll. I just wanted to add that I walked out on the porch this morning and stubbed my toe!!!! THANKS HILLARY!!!😏

[NYC Liberal]

117. Good thing Hillary is a great liberal Democrat, who has the support of other liberal Dems like

Elizabeth Warren and Howard Dean.

Hillary Clinton IS the "true star" of the Democratic Party. Democrats, including the liberal base, overwhelmingly support her. That's in the real world – outside of the DU bubble.

[NYC Liberal]

119. Then don't vote for her. That's your choice.

[JoePhilly]

120. Will this "star" emerge from under a bridge?

I mean, if there is some super awesome candidate about to "emerge", you could have at least named them.

[wolfie001]

136. President Walker or Cruz.

You choose, you lose. Pass the booze, take a four year snooze.

[BlueMTexpat]

137. I pledge that I will not offer

vague slurs and smears towards ANY Dem candidate for Prez in a Democratic forum.

It would behoove those who are truly DUers to do the same.

Based on your title, you clearly offer a vague smear towards the most likely candidate by implying that she is a "phony Democrat." That vague slur implicitly extends to all of her supporters. I will not "like" this post. Shame on you!

There is no human being who will meet every single so-called "progressive" ideal. Not one. All must accommodate their stands somewhat in order to win a general election so most will meet most in varying degrees. It is fine to criticize candidates based on their actions, policies, stands, the company they keep, etc. so long as that criticism is based on facts rather than biases.

But I don't believe that is what is happening here. Please peddle your slurs elsewhere.

And, most of all, keep in mind that the GOPers of today were the John Birch Society members of Truman's era.

[99th_Monkey]

179. Primary Elections

That's where Democrats debate among themselves (and it isn't always nicey-nice) as
to who should be the Democratic Candidate for POTUS in the General Election.

But you already knew that, right?

[BlueMTexpat]

180. Indeed.

But that is not what is happening in this OP, IMO.

[SidDithers]

138. Welcome to DU...

Sid

[DemocratSinceBirth]

143. Snort

DSB

[beemer27]

139. Listen and Learn from Truman

This quote is appropriate for this time, and it hits the nail right on the head. No party will win with a half-ass candidate. If we want to win, we must have a person running who supports our beliefs and ideals. There has been too much pragmatism and compromise. If we want a Democrat to win, we will have to run a Democrat.

[NCTraveler]

140. There is a group here completely unaware that we have primaries.

It isn't the group you are addressing. Hillary supporters are gearing up for the primary.

Here is one who isn't aware of the primary process. Maybe you should inform them of this "Let's wait until the primary season start and the true star of the Democratic Party will emerge."

Personally, I think waiting is an extremely poor idea.

[B Calm]

141. Posters need to stop tearing down democratic politicians and push for their preferred candidate.

When some come here with an agenda to divide the party, it makes me think they are mostly right-wing trolls. Hell some of them are even outraged with Hillary about the phony right-wing Benghazi e-mail scandal.

[NCTraveler]

145. That's it.

But there are a handful, like this op, who only have the ability to see things from a point of view that is not reflective of reality or history. Hillary supporters are gearing up for the primary. The trolls you mention are simply fighting their own demons. It's like they have never heard of a primary. I actually left out a link in my post above. Probably for the best because it would have been viewed as a call-out. The link went to an op that would only make sense if there was NO primary. Reality be damned for some people.

[cascadiance]

144. And some quotes from FDR too should be noted as well...

"We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering. They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob. Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred."

-- Franklin Delamo Roosevelt - 10/31/1936 - Madison Square Garden

"These economic royalists complain that we seek to overthrow the institutions of America. What they really complain of is that we seek to take away their power. Our allegiance to American institutions requires the overthrow of this kind of power. In vain they seek to hide behind the flag and the Constitution. In their blindness they forget what the flag and the Constitution stand for. Now, as always, they stand for democracy, not tyranny; for freedom, not subjection; and against a dictatorship by mob rule and the over-privileged alike."

-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt - 1936 Democratic Convention

[RiverLover]

147. DUrec! "We know now that Govt by organized money is just as dangerous as Govt by organized mob."

He was strong & stood up against corporate rule & welcomed their hatred.

Hillary only welcomes their(organized) money.

[Darb]

146. That's some pretty weak sauce you got there.

Back to the kitchen with you.

[JCMach1]

149. UNREC

[Lil Missy]

169. Thanks for your concern. n/t

[randome]

170. You are addressing 2 groups with this OP.

One, the 'hard-core Hillary supporters', which is a small minority. Most of us are waiting for the Primary process to sort things out for us.

The other group is those who agree with you, which is a self-congratulatory process.

Instead of trying to sow division and tear candidates down, why not be positive and support someone you like?
[hr][font color="blue"][center]No squirrels were harmed in the making of this post. Yet.[/center][/font][hr]

[Renew Deal]

176. Is this about Sanders?