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Mon Mar 30, 2015, 07:20 AM

 

How to Talk to a Far-Right-Winger

First a word of explanation.

Please note that the title of this essay does not refer to a “conservative,” but to a “far-right-winger.” As I’ve said many times (most recently with a certain virality), the two terms are in no way equivalent. Far-right-wingers are anything but conservative; they profess some of the most radical and ideologically driven agendas of any on the political landscape.

Got it? Okay. So now onto the question under review. How DO you talk to a far-right-winger?

Answer: You don’t.

I'm serious. Just stop. Don’t bother. You’re wasting your breath.

Michael Shermer, in his fantastic book The Believing Brain, reminds us that despite the scientific age in which we live, the brain is fundamentally a “belief engine.” And on top of that,

Once beliefs are formed, the brain begins to look for and find confirmatory evidence in support of those beliefs, which adds an emotional boost of further confidence in the beliefs and thereby accelerates the process of reinforcing them, and round and round the process goes….

In fact, you may be doing even worse than wasting your breath. Every argument you have only makes their beliefs stronger. Don’t believe me? Take a look:


http://www.chasingglennbeck.com/homeblog/2015/3/29/how-to-talk-to-a-far-right-winger.html

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Arrow 47 replies Author Time Post
Reply How to Talk to a Far-Right-Winger (Original post)
Katashi_itto Mar 2015 OP
Protalker Mar 2015 #1
pipoman Mar 2015 #2
stillwaiting Mar 2015 #4
A Simple Game Mar 2015 #20
stillwaiting Mar 2015 #26
deafskeptic Mar 2015 #40
PumpkinAle Mar 2015 #3
NRaleighLiberal Mar 2015 #5
zeemike Mar 2015 #12
NRaleighLiberal Mar 2015 #14
zeemike Mar 2015 #15
LineLineLineLineLineReply .
NRaleighLiberal Mar 2015 #17
erronis Mar 2015 #34
treestar Mar 2015 #6
MineralMan Mar 2015 #7
Takket Mar 2015 #8
Half-Century Man Mar 2015 #9
The Animator Mar 2015 #10
calimary Mar 2015 #22
leftyladyfrommo Mar 2015 #11
mountain grammy Mar 2015 #27
ybbor Mar 2015 #13
Android3.14 Mar 2015 #19
Orsino Mar 2015 #16
NCTraveler Mar 2015 #18
LineLineReply *
L0oniX Mar 2015 #21
NCTraveler Mar 2015 #30
L0oniX Mar 2015 #32
NCTraveler Mar 2015 #41
L0oniX Mar 2015 #42
Enthusiast Mar 2015 #23
NCTraveler Mar 2015 #29
stone space Mar 2015 #24
Marr Mar 2015 #33
Aldo Leopold Mar 2015 #25
-none Mar 2015 #35
Aldo Leopold Mar 2015 #44
Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2015 #45
-none Mar 2015 #47
Rex Mar 2015 #28
Marr Mar 2015 #31
-none Mar 2015 #36
Marr Mar 2015 #38
Rex Mar 2015 #39
Tuesday Afternoon Mar 2015 #37
Matrosov Mar 2015 #43
mstinamotorcity2 Mar 2015 #46

Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 07:59 AM

1. Beware and aware of Triggers!

Ted Cruz having his kick-off at Liberty Bible Baptist. This followed by Pence Indiana 101 law.The republican leadership in Israel. Connect the dots.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 08:11 AM

2. As someone who is (and have been for a long time)

 

Left of center, I learned a long time ago reasoning with either the far right or the far left is something better left to professionals...I usually find the arguments of center left and center right to be at least somewhat reasonable even when I disagree....otoh the arguments of the far out on both sides are often devoid of reason....

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Response to pipoman (Reply #2)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 08:54 AM

4. Well, the far left doesn't really exist in the U.S.

There are LOTS of far rightists though.

Unless you are calling Democrats who hold FDR-style/New Deal values "far left".

In which case, never mind.

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Response to stillwaiting (Reply #4)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:50 AM

20. I consider myself far left, and I can think of at least 4 or 5 others on DU

that are probably far left.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:09 AM

26. It's not a force in the U.S. currently. I do hope it grows though.

And, I am "far left" according to many within the Democratic Party now (especially according to those who are in elected office) because I don't believe we should give ANY ground on the New Deal policies and ideals (we should strengthen by expanding them; not cutting them).

The far left movement (not the "far left" movement and there is a difference) needs to grow if we are ever going to begin to reverse the trend we CONTINUE to go down in this country.

When FDR was able to pass the New Deal there was a much stronger leftist movement in this country. Now we have income and wealth disparity that exceeds that of the gilded age, but the far left movement is nowhere near as strong as it was in FDR's era. It's been thoroughly compromised and beaten down whenever and wherever it appears. That will need to change if we expect a reversal of course in this country.

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Response to A Simple Game (Reply #20)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 11:22 AM

40. I have always considered myself fairly far left. I've got RWNJs in my family.

One of those family RWNJs was very anti communist; I have reason to believe he was a covert Birch sympathizer. He believe Islam was based on hate. You can't reason with a person like that. He was very anti-tax as well.

I'm of a left libertarian bent.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 08:17 AM

3. A hard lesson to learn

but so true.

I still find myself lapsing from time to time though.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 08:56 AM

5. It's great advice - I don't. I just walk away. Their belief system is teflon.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:29 AM

12. I think the point is to listen and ask questions.

And let them convince themselves they don't know what they think they know.

But what happens usually is we tend to argue with them and it is perceived as aggression and so they defend themselves by being aggressive back.
A good teacher never tells the student his ideas are stupid or wrong, they let them come to that conclusion on their own.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #12)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:30 AM

14. that is good advice, but my patience has worn too thin - the Bush years did me in...

and what I saw on FB from family and friends during the two Obama victories - as well as having a fundy neighbor that drove me crazy - at nearly 60, I am choosing to be happy - hence just walk away.

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:39 AM

15. And I completely understand.

Life is too short to be troubled with crap like that.
What I suggested is only for those who have achieved an inner peace that cannot be shattered by the negativity of it all...Rare among us today.

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Response to zeemike (Reply #15)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:43 AM

17. .

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Response to NRaleighLiberal (Reply #5)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:32 AM

34. Me too. Just turn my back and go on to something more meaningful

Most of them are just itchin' for a fight and ignoring them is the best option.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:02 AM

6. Interesting how that arrow went to the dreaded center

When they person realized they didn't know as much as they thought they did!

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:05 AM

7. I usually just mumble to myself as I walk away.

I don't engage real right-wingers. I can't reach them, so it's a complete waste of my time. I hide them on Facebook and never go to their websites. Why bother. They're non-thinking morons.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:11 AM

8. interesting. I would add:

That people simply hate being wrong and admitting someone else is right.

It is part of the fight of flight response they talked about. People become defensive. They would rather insist on being wrong than suffer the embarrassment of admitting someone else is right. Just my own observation from years of this pointless "internet arguments"

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:12 AM

9. My first guess was "Speak slowly and use simple wording".

Asking the hows and whys of extreme positions works on my relatives who.....drifted right.

Once I detected a family landmine and denied listening to tapes given to me. A relative was angered by the wasted effort, but far less angry than if I had told them the truth. My first exposure to Alex Jones had convinced me he was fucking nuts.
By asking them to carefully and in their own words explain the points brought up in the now long gone tapes, their anger dissipated. In part because they got the chance to rant and by having to think about what they were saying.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:19 AM

10. I do it just for the entertainment value.

If I see some crap on my facebook feed that gets my blood boiling I won't hesitate to leave an opposing comment. Most of the time, the post is filled with an echo chamber of rw nutjobs, everyone nodding agreement... I like to piss all over that by being the one person based in reality. The exploding heads that follow are amusing to me.. Every once in a while, they need to be confronted with the concept that not everyone agrees with them.

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Response to The Animator (Reply #10)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:57 AM

22. That last sentence is KEY. And it's what you see playing out in Indiana now.

"Every once in a while, they need to be confronted with the concept that not everyone agrees with them."

They live in a bubble. They really do. Indiana is proof. Trying to shut out the "cold cruel world" and live in their own safe little insular world where only what THEY WANT TO BE TRUE is true. Pox Noise has helped build and reinforce this. Hate radio does nothing BUT reinforce this AROUND THE CLOCK, 24/7/365. kkkarl rove kicked it into high gear early in bush/cheney by rhapsodizing about how "we create OUR OWN REALITY. And you will study it, judiciously, as you will (his imperiousness said, dismissively). The denial is AMAZING to me!

Here's the quote of the century, if you'll recall:

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore." He continued "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors … and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."
Suskind, Ron (2004-10-17). Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George W. Bush. The New York Times Magazine.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Karl_Rove

"...Judiciously, as you will..." That smug put-down has stung me and pissed me off from the first time I heard it.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:27 AM

11. You can't talk to right-wingers

If you bring up anything outside their comfort zone they will disengage one way or the other. They have so much invested in their belief system that any questions that might point out cracks in their belief system are terrifying to them. I am around the far right people everyday. I just never bring up politics or religion. We get along great that way. They know I'm a liberal.

I saw the same thing happen when I lived in Salt Lake. The Mormon kids all just dropped out of the philosophy classes and geology classes and anthropology classes after the first or second class. They never stayed to try and argue their positions.

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Response to leftyladyfrommo (Reply #11)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:15 AM

27. That's a fact and the only reason we still have a relationship with family.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:29 AM

13. I wholeheartedly disagree with this





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Response to ybbor (Reply #13)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:48 AM

19. Perhaps you could tell us why?

 

In detail and in your own words.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:43 AM

16. Belief is a survival mechanism.

Shared belief in the invisible binds people together and helps them compete more successgully for resources.

Tyrants will hever give up the exploitation of this human tendency.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:48 AM

18. How to talk to a right winger on du.

 

"Don't worry, Sanders will enter the primary. We know you are being honest about your hatred of all things Hillary."

"I know you aren't aware of the primaries, but I promise you Hillary won't run unopposed."

"Email gate..... Well, bless your little heart."

"You're an anti-Hillary Democrat attacking from the left yet stand for no one. Isn't that special."

We should be nice to them. They are terrified of going eight years of Obama and eight years of Hillary.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:54 AM

21. *

 



BTW I love Clearwater beach & live in St Pete

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #21)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:22 AM

30. I love looking at the beach from the water.

 

I love boating in this area. Really like a lot about the area. This area offers everything that can be found on flat land, good or bad. lol.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #30)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:26 AM

32. I race my 28' sailboat every Friday evening. Luv finishing the races at sunset.

 

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Response to L0oniX (Reply #32)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 11:44 AM

41. Never knew how great sailing was until I became friends with a guy....

 

who had a Morgan. I forget how big, just over 30 if I remember correctly. Nothing says "I'm slow and loving it" like his Morgan. Not a thing about it said "race time." For years we took it out almost every weekend, weather permitting. I laughed every time he started the engine. It had a one-cylinder Volvo engine that sounded just like the cartoons when they were trying to mimic a small or weak motor. He kept it docked out back of the Clearwater Marine Science Center, another one of my favorite places in the area. These days I am mainly a upper Tampa Bay gal. I go out fishing a lot North of the Gandy Bridge. I also do some tournament fishing this time of year in the Gulf. From what I understand the King run started early this year so the tournaments in April might be a little difficult. I have seen a lot of racing around Sand Key but the boats I see around there racing are more often than not much smaller than 28'.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #41)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 11:49 AM

42. You'll see us racing every Friday evening 6:30 east of the St. Pete pier.

 

My boat is a Morgan designed hull ...Chrysler/TMI ...I took 2 - 1st place SPYC and SA series awards 2014. Got a great crew ...all Dems.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:59 AM

23. If we oppose Hillary we are right wing?

HRC's stand on Wall Street, trade and war tells me I am correct in opposing Hillary.

There is nothing right wing about it.

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Response to Enthusiast (Reply #23)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:18 AM

29. Show me where I said such a thing as you have stated.

 

If one is on DU and opposes everything Hillary, while standing for nothing?

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:00 AM

24. Jury Results

 

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service

Mail Message



On Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:52 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

How to talk to a right winger on du.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=6436617

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

What a jerk.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Mon Mar 30, 2015, 09:56 AM, and the Jury voted 3-4 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: If the poster is a jerk, the alerter should be happy that it's out there for all to see. I'd have gone along with a hide for the misuse of your, though, but that's just me.

Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Epic jerk.

Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: What a jerk, indeed.

Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given

Juror #6 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: Agree with alerter. Total jerk to call DUers opposed to Hillary as RWers. That makes DU suck. It's going to be a long primary.

Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Meh... Not a particularly cleaver post, but not hide-worthy.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

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Response to NCTraveler (Reply #18)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:27 AM

33. You are not doing your candidate any favors. /nt

 

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:00 AM

25. I've honed this art to speaking with just one of my fingers.

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Response to Aldo Leopold (Reply #25)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:35 AM

35. Sometimes it takes two.

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Response to -none (Reply #35)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 01:36 PM

44. LOL - one on each hand, right?

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Response to Aldo Leopold (Reply #44)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 02:44 PM

45. Then there's flipping the pinky.


It's the anti-Hallmark-- When you don't care enough to send the very best. (Remember that slogan, baby boomers?)

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Response to Aldo Leopold (Reply #44)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 02:59 PM

47. That's the picture.

And some rate it.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:17 AM

28. Very good point, GOPers are anything but conservative.

 

I've never seen them try and conserve anything in life. All they ever do is fuck up anything they get near, lie about anything and everything, waste millions of dollars on witch hunts, try their best to repeal any law that might help put minorities on equal footing.

If anything RWingers of all stripes are just the opposite of conservative. They are wasteful people and destroy more than they build. It is sad that they are able to hijack words.

I can deal easily with progressives, it is the squishy middle I have problems with. They seem to have the most...ahem...flexible morals and ethics of any group. Of course they are a billion times better than their further to the right cousins, they seem to have no morals or ethical code. The fringe right is just downright spooky. Their fundie diehard ways scare me.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:26 AM

31. I've found that one specific angle can actually work when arguing with a right-winger.

 

If you couch everything in macho terms (hard working middle class people vs. soft handed, pampered daddy's boys, to put it in a nutshell) they'll often side with you.

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Response to Marr (Reply #31)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:38 AM

36. Until the next Rush or Fox News show.

Then they back slide again.

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Response to -none (Reply #36)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:40 AM

38. No doubt. /nt

 

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Response to Marr (Reply #31)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 11:00 AM

39. Or you let them paint themselves into a corner

 

to where you can insinuate they are being unpatriotic and give them an out to save face.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 10:39 AM

37. the irony to this... the Bible actually gives good advice about this =

King James Bible
from Matthew 7:6 in Jesus's Sermon on the Mount:

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.



They think they are so holy when in fact they are the hypocrites therefore do not waste your time.

My brother married one. I don't see him much anymore. She has turned him into a person I no longer recognize.
She is in some really weirdo, out-there cult. ugh.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 12:03 PM

43. You don't interact with the brain dead

 

There's no reason to voluntarily interact with right-wingers. As far as they are concerned, anyone even a hair left or Ronald Reagan is an 'anti-American, anti-capitalist, gun-grabbing, baby-killing, foreigner-loving, communist.'

If you have no choice but to interact with them, like if you have to live in an area densely populated with them, I find it best to simply acknowledge their insane ramblings and not try to counter them. That way you don't have to ramble right-wing insanity to appease them but they also don't flag you immediately as the enemy.

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Response to Katashi_itto (Original post)

Mon Mar 30, 2015, 02:54 PM

46. I just laugh at them

and say that's stupid. Who told you that?? They say the News (we know which one). Then I say did you fact check that?? They say no. I ask can you read?? They say yes. I say Well I can't believe you haven't Googled that everybody knows that's not true. and I just laugh even harder I wave my hand at them and say Whew child you're so funny. And I continue to laugh until they leave.

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