Need a good response regarding Indiana "religious freedom" law

[NewJeffCT]

Somebody asked if you can force a "Christian" bakery to bake a cake for gay couple, couldn't the same law be used to compel a Jewish business to do work for a Neo Nazi organization, or an African American business to do work for the KKK? (my quotes around Christian)

Is there a response to that?

[DUgosh]

1. IMHO

Those folks wouldn't considering hiring those businesses in the first place.

[NewJeffCT]

4. I understand that

but, would the gay couple that wanted the wedding cake have gone to the fundy Christian bakery if they had known? Probably not if there were alternates around.

[Bluzmann57]

2. How about if one opened a business

and refused to serve openly fundamentalist "Christians"? That is my response. Whether it's a good one or not, I don't know.

[Binkie The Clown]

8. I got fired once (1967) over an ill-considered "humorous" remark at work.

Not realizing that the boss was a devote Christian, he overheard a discussion with a fellow atheist about religion in which I said "Christians are O.K, I guess. I just wouldn't want my daughter to marry one."

My guess, from that experience, is that Christians would not take kindly to that.

[marym625]

3. yes.

[Sarcastica]

5. No one has to serve anybody. But if you serve anyone, you have to serve everyone.

If doing business with certain people is a problem, don't go into business.

(Note that every business has the right to withhold service on an individual basis. If a group is drunk and rowdy, you can refuse to serve them. If a guest is improperly attired, you can refuse service if their dress does not meet the consistently applied policy. If you have a splitting headache and want to close early, you can refuse to serve the folks that show up as you are locking up. But you cannot have a policy that disallows groups. No gays, no blacks, no Christians, etc).

A great test of the Indiana law will be the gunshop owner wh refuses sale of a gun to an openly gay person. 2nd Amendment vs. religous freedom- let the games begin.

[mainstreetonce]

6. The answer

is that the baker sells cakes for some weddings so he can not discriminate among customers.

A seller can decide to never sell Neo Nazi signs to anyone.

[sinkingfeeling]

15. Correct answer. It's either I do it for all or I don't for all.

[arcane1]

7. Note they had to compare gays to Nazis and the KKK in order to come up with a comparison

[NewJeffCT]

18. yes, two hate groups

but, it is still a question.

[GreatGazoo]

9. Their analogies go outside religion which is very telling.

Being African American is not a religion so their question, correctly, interprets this law as being about hatred and having nothing at all to do with the Beatitudes or the Sermon on the Mount.

The best response is one that re-focuses on real religion -- "Under the Indiana law, can a person just erroneously blame ANY hatred and stupidity they have on Jesus? or do they have to go with what is written in the bible?"

How about:

"Since Jesus said nothing at all about LGBT people specifically, can the Indiana law be applied to groups that Jesus DID speak against, for example 'money changers'?

[NewJeffCT]

10. well, the black and KKK one does go outside religion

but, not the Jewish/Neo Nazi one.

[marym625]

11. The use of the word "force" is interesting

I'm surprised at all the explanations. It's a simple, yes.


Even without the new law, anyone can discriminate against LGBT people in Indiana because they are not a protected class. Everything and everyone else is.

[NewJeffCT]

13. the KKK and Neo Nazis

aren't protected groups. Their members may be part of the privileged class, but their membership in hate groups like the KKK or Ne Nazis is not.

[marym625]

16. The group is protected in that it has all the rights afforded

Any person that isn't LGBT. Just like the KKK marched in Skokie, Illinois.

[el_bryanto]

12. I think it would depend on the type of work called for

As others have mentioned, there's no law requiring you to do business with any individual person. This law wants to allow businesses to have the right to discriminate and advertise that discrimination against a whole group of people. They want to be able to put up a sign saying "no gays allowed" with no consequence.

There are areas where I am not sure how this law will be used; saw a website designer who takes on a set number of clients a year. They get a request they don't feel like they can do a good job on, based on the content, so they turn it down. Could they be sued? Probably. Would that suit stand up? I don't know.

Bryant

[Initech]

14. The "religious freedom laws" have nothing to do with religion or freedom.

[NewJeffCT]

17. just about everybody knows that

However, that doesn't work for a debate on the issue.