New federal regulations for water heaters coming.

[Curmudgeoness]

Effective April 16, 2015, there will be new regulations on water heaters to boost energy efficiency. There may be some problems for people who have a tight spot to fit a new water heater, since these regulations have added at least 2 inches to the width and 2 inches to the height. I am sure that this will be an issue for me, since the newest water heater that I got had to be installed so that it is tilted to fit. The next one will never fit.

I am not opposed to boosting energy efficiency, but this new requirement will do little to help and will be a serious problem for many homeowners, and I am not sure that I agree that the savings is worth the problems created.

Current specifications call for minimal boosts, at least for the gas water heaters that I use as well as the electric water heaters. Current energy factor for gas is 0.670 and will increase to 0.675. Electric energy factor is 0.97 and will increase to 0.96.

There will also be a significant cost increase when replacing water heaters just in the cost of the unit. Right now, the new units are priced at about 25% more than the same unit under current regulations. That does not include installation and the possible significant cost to move where a unit is installed because of space limitations.

I would suggest that anyone who knows they will need a new water heater get a new one before the new regulations take effect, but I hear that it is next to impossible to find the currently used models.

Further information at the link.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/appliance_standards/product.aspx/productid/27

[yeoman6987]

1. They missed me

Just got a new water heater in October 2014. See ya in 6-10 years.

[Agschmid]

2. Or just get a tankless heater...

[Curmudgeoness]

9. They were talking about the tankless heaters,

and the contractor who was reporting about the water heaters said that they work well for something like a kitchen sink, but they have not been working well for whole hose water needs. I have no experience with them, but I did look into them the last time that I got a new unit, and it was very expensive and the installation was extreme. There was no way that it would have made sense for me.

[hunter]

15. We have a tankless.

It wasn't all good, especially when we had multiple teens living in our house.

They saw it as a way to take unlimited showers, no fear of pissing off mom and dad when the hot water ran out. We didn't save any money then.

A second problem is that higher power on-demand heaters are reluctant to turn on for low water flows. It's often best to buy the smallest heater you can tolerate, rather than the largest you can afford.

We have a small one that was rated for a shower and a faucet. But we also have pressure compensating shower valves and it would be very inconvenient otherwise. As it is, when two showers are going and someone turns on the dishwasher or washing machine it's no big deal. The shower flow is reduced but the water temperature remains the same.

A third problem is that our kitchen is far away from the water heater. These heaters don't work with conventional recirculating systems that always keep water in the pipes warm. We have to run the water a bit before it gets hot. I don't feel too bad about that because sewage water in our community is recycled and the sewage recycling plant is powered by the sun and gas from from the sewage sludge digesters.

I haven't been disappointed by our on-demand system. It has its quirks, but it's nice to know that when nobody is using hot water the water heater isn't using any energy at all.

[Curmudgeoness]

19. So yours is a whole house tankless unit?

Do you mind me asking how much it cost? What did it take to get it all hooked up? I use gas to heat the water, and I don't know of the electric requirements or access for it, so does that cause any additional problems?

[hunter]

28. Yep, whole house. It was a scratch-and-dent unit and I do my own plumbing.

I just got lucky. Our conventional water heater rusted out, I wandered around town looking for the best price, and there it was, maybe $200 more than an ordinary "better" quality water heater would have cost. The heater itself was fine, only the packaging was damaged.

There was plenty of room to hang it on the wall, the existing gas connection was more than adequate, and the venting wasn't anything special.

But the job wouldn't have been so easy in most houses I've lived in, so I can't answer your question.

Our neighbor had a plumber install theirs, a slightly different and more complicated situation, near $3000, if I recall correctly, and with a callback too because whenever the water heater went on their "smart" furnace would fault out and have to be reset manually because the gas pressure got too low for it. The plumber had to run a separate line off the gas meter to fix the problem, but he ate most of that cost as he was the one who'd sold them on the water heater.

[Curmudgeoness]

30. Gasp.

That is the kind of cost that would not be possible. I did talk to the plumber who installed my water heater about other options, and the tankless unit would have caused a lot of problem with venting---or so he said.

[hunter]

31. Modern through-wall vented tankless water heaters are far less trouble...

... and if you live in a place where PEX water pipe and flexible gas line are approved, it's not a big deal installing a gas tankless water heater in a different location than your previous water heater.

[bobalew]

3. Get an On-demand unit, even slightly used, are much more efficient that the tanks...

Some , if gas or propane, do not even need a power supply, & run off the water flow/pressure.

[GeorgeGist]

4. The standard mandatory in 1990 will save approximately 3.2 quads of energy ...

and result in approximately $34.8 billion in energy bill savings for products shipped from 1990-2019. The standard will avoid about 180 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions, equivalent to the annual greenhouse gas emissions of about 35.3 million automobiles.

The standard mandatory in 2004 will save approximately 6 quads of energy and result in approximately $70.6 billion in energy bill savings for products shipped from 2004-2033. The standard will avoid about 316.8 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions, equivalent to the annual greenhouse gas emissions of about 62.1 million automobiles.

Standards mandatory in 2015 will save approximately 3.3 quads of energy and result in approximately $63 billion in energy bill savings for products shipped from 2015-2044. The standard will avoid about 172.5 million metric tons of carbon dioxide emissions, equivalent to the annual greenhouse gas emissions of about 33.8 million automobiles.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/buildings/appliance_standards/product.aspx/productid/27

[Curmudgeoness]

10. That is what they say,

but I cannot imagine that kind of savings. My gas bill in the summer, when it is used for cooking and heating water only, is about $30. How much of that is water, I don't know, but I don't see it as much.

I think that when it has gotten to the point where a large number of households will have to find other ways to hook up a unit because the unit doesn't fit, it is a real problem. I don't know the answer.

[phantom power]

5. I think this would be a problem for me too.

I could probably find a tankless that would fit, which we might do anyway.

[phantom power]

6. I presume we can expect a wingnut temper tantrum about this

similar to the hissy fit they threw over their right to purchase inefficient light bulbs, because freedom or something.

[Warpy]

7. Best energy efficiency measure is to turn it down to the lowest setting

and that's hot enough for most purposes.

When mine conks out, I'm going to be exploring a tankless, on demand option. I have barely enough room for a new model if the tankless won't fit.

[Codeine]

34. That only works if you enjoy cold baths

and don't mind a single quick shower completely draining the tank

[Warpy]

35. My tub is too small for anyone over the age of six

so showers suit me fine.

I've never run out of water and at 120, it's still hot enough I need to mix it with cold. I've never run out, not even with back to back work clothes and showers.

[onethatcares]

8. if you have a tankless

do you need separate ones for the bathroom and kitchen, or does one tankless heater work for both rooms?

[Trillo]

21. I have a tankless, it was installed where the old water heater was located

and it serves the whole house. Installing it required some reconfiguration of the copper water lines (cutting and soldering), and a new exhaust duct needed to be installed, the old tank type used 4" exhaust ducting and the tankless required 6". It works okay, but it is a little different from a tank type: flow volume is reduced in the hot water line, but I guess we've gotten used to that. If one person is showering, we ask the other person not to use hot water for a few minutes, as it causes quite a temperature change due to the reduced flow (2 person house, might be hard to coordinate in a house with a lot of people).

I had to rebuild the water-differential valve (may not be calling it what the manufacturer calls it) just recently (gas flame was not turning on), it was partially clogged with some kind of scale build up or something. Repair parts, gaskets and new water-line filters were not super expensive, ordered everything online, but we did go without hot water for a few days while waiting for parts (did not check with local plumbers, we just chose not to stress over not having hot water for a few days). We've had it for almost 15 years.

[onethatcares]

23. thank you for the info

we would be going electric since the gas meter was removed from this home 35 years ago along with the piping.

The existing water heater is about 15 years old and now that I'm thinking of it, I better drain the sediment out tomorrow morning.

thanks again.

[Dont call me Shirley]

11. Try a solar hot water heater.

[Curmudgeoness]

12. Does that work well

in the bitter cold Northeast, where at least 2/3 of the days are overcast? And is this something that is also cost prohibitive?

[Dont call me Shirley]

13. Here's a couple of links...

http://www.montanagreenpower.com/faq/solarwater.php

http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/PEXColDHW/Overview.htm

[davidn3600]

14. Cost to install would be too much for most people

Sure there are usually some tax credits available...but those don't reduce the initial cost...and even then it is still $1,500+ more than the cost of a traditional water heater.

That's the big problem with solar or most other renewable energy technology...it's too expensive for the average consumer.

[Curmudgeoness]

17. My thought as well.

I checked the links provided, and this is totally out of reach for me. I wish it wasn't, but facts are facts.

Add to the cost that my climate is not well suited for it, and there are regulations in my town that would not allow most of the options, and this is just not an option.

[Dont call me Shirley]

20. Sorry, it is worth a try giving it a little investigation.

It should be the standard, not the higher priced option.

[hunter]

33. I think about that, but I'm lazy.

If I wash my clothes in cold water, and take fewer and shorter showers, I still save a lot of money and don't have to climb on the roof myself or pay someone to install expensive equipment.

[BainsBane]

16. I saw a tankless heater on special on Amazon for around $350

It had very good reviews. I have a small tank that doesn't enable me to get through a long shower. Not even that long. I was tempted by that tankless heater. Maybe later in the year.

[greyl]

18. This one?

Ecosmart ECO 18 for $362.



Ecosmart ECO 18 best price

[BainsBane]

22. That's it!

[AngryAmish]

24. It has to get wired...but one in a kitchen and one in each bathroom...

We only got 3 bathrooms...this may make some sense depending.

[BainsBane]

25. Why can't it be wired at the central water source?

I have two places I use water: the kitchen and bathroom. Are you saying I would need to buy two heaters?

[AngryAmish]

32. oh, it depends on the house

I'm in Chicago with a 105 year old house. Not wired originally. The current setup is gas hot water going up the central stack to kitchen and water lines off that. Agsin, I only have 3 bathrooms. But some of the lines are near walls which lose a lot of hot when it is 10 degrees.


I have a huge and because of the length of the lines inefficient tank heater. A smallish tankless heater near each bathroom (and one could share with the kitchen) would reduce heat loss in the winter.

But rewiring (especially grounding) would be a bear.

I don't know where you live or your house. But 1 bath plus kitchen, it looks up your alley.

But it pulls a lot of power. Make sure your electrical service can handle it. Get a professional, not a half assed weekend warrior like me.

[TransitJohn]

26. Did you complain about light bulbs, too?

As a petroleum geologist, enhanced energy efficiency is always a good thing.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

27. It's a good thing on average.

Your individual mileage may vary. I know what the poster is talking about - I've got an older house, and already it's really hard to get into the space where my A/C and water heater are. There's simply not a lot of room to maneuver, and the walls around them are load-bearing, so I can't just knock them out to make more room to install a bigger tank.

[Curmudgeoness]

29. There is a cost-benefit ratio for everything.

I don't see where the additional cost to every house in the US is worth it. The light bulbs were minimal cost for a significant benefit, so that is not the same thing at all.

I agree that energy efficiency is important, as is conservation. If it was possible to have water heaters with better efficiency fit into the same space as the older models, there would be no problem. And if the costs were not going up significantly, it would not be an issue. But this can be a major problem for many homes, and it should be considered and dealt with before regulations go into effect.

I also would love to have the sun powering everything in my house, but before that is required, I would say that prices have to come way down. There are people who can't afford to replace a water heater as it is. Maybe you don't know those people, but I do.