thrilled with the backlash against indiana, but... what line exactly did they cross?

[unblock]

perhaps my perspective is warped, but it seems to me that republicans crossed the line a long, long time ago, in the 80s, i'd say.

there have been many, many things republicans have done or said that i keep expecting to lead to the kind of outrage, boycotting, and backlash that we're only now seeing against indiana. yet this level of opposition is very rarely seen. or at least, very rarely covered in the media.

what is so different about this particular bit of republican hate legislation that's so different from any of a large number of hateful, idiotic things they've said or done, or bills they've proposed, or whatever?

to me, we're so far into the objectionable area that i really can't see why this is so much worse than so many other things they've done.

[world wide wally]

1. They make deliberate and concentrated attacks on all things American and it's citizens,

and yet people will vote for them. "Thank you, master. One more please!"
This is ludicrous

[upaloopa]

2. A few years ago this would not have happened.

The majority now supports marriage equality that's the difference.

[Lint Head]

3. The difference is that the tide is turning and bigots are having to seek higher ground.

[unblock]

5. this is higher ground?

[Lint Head]

16. Of course not. But the backlash is a small kick in the ass that needs to continue.

[Suich]

4. This explains the latest bill:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10026440056

[unblock]

6. yeah, i get the bill and why it's outrageous. it's the reaction that puzzles me.

or rather, why this bill prompted the reaction i've been expecting for decades but been consistently disappointed with.

[Suich]

7. Yeah, I know what you mean.

Since Arkansas just passed a similar bill, I'll be curious to see what happens.

[Skidmore]

9. I think it is that the scope of the bill is so broad and

it can be readily extended to subsume other groups as well. We need to take a stand here and on all bills which seek to erode rights or encode discrimination in the law. Keep hammering away with the same intensity.

[salin]

15. It caught most of us by surprise.

I think it is a confluence of several things. First an old adage from this part of the midwest. Styles and trends show up on the Coasts (east and west) and take 5-10 years to reach here. I grew up here, and have lived on both Coasts, and think there is some truth to this. I'll come back to that in a moment.

Indiana has a big city/county (merged), several midsized cities, and a number of small to midsized University cities with really large Universities (IU-Bloomington, Purdue-West Lafayette), and a lot of smaller college towns. In these communities the education level is higher, and attitudes have evolved more quickly than in other parts of the state. However, it is what makes it a little different than a comparison I read earlier today (or yesterday) that there is NYC and then there is the rest of the state - with little similar between the two. Here you have Indy - and about six or seven slightly more cosmopolitan cities. These are where the big employers are and where cultural attitudes have been evolving.

Reading the star comments, and listening to conversations after the Indiana Gay-Marriage ban was overruled (then stayed, then overruled) was interesting. Majority of the comments were not the vitriol of the teaparty (which used to dominate such discussions) but calls of "it's about time!" "finally we move out of the dark ages", etc. This is like the 'styles take 5-10 yrs to catch up. But this isn't all of the state. I do, however, believe it is the majority of the population.

A second big factor: There is a long held belief (and I support it) that the political powerbrokers in this state are the big (establishment) businesses in Indianapolis. They get involved in Indianapolis politics and state-wide major offices (Sen., Gov.), less so for down ballot offices, including congressional seats. This is not a conservative or liberal group. They backed Evan Bayh as strongly as they backed Mitch Daniels. They like moderate (no big lurch to the left *or* to the right), business friendly leaders who show common sense/experience (whatever that really means.)

When Governor O'Bannon's term was close to an end (before he passed away), his Lt. governor said he was not going to run. There was a big parlor game in Indy about identifying and swaying a "good leader" (moderate, business friendly, common sense/experience). While those of us watching the first part of the Bush admin would not call Mitch Daniels those things... he was known less as head of the OMB and more as an executive for Indianpolis Power and Light. He was chosen. When O'Bannon passed away and Lt. Gov. Kernan became Gov. Kernan - TPTB already had lined up behind "My Man Mitch."

Meanwhile in DC - Pence is moving up the ranks in the rancorous House of Reps. Suddenly he is all over the news - and he gets the presidential bug. He decides to run to follow Mitch. He is not beloved by the Establishment Business powerbrokers in Indianapolis. He is a fire brand. So he tones WAY back, courts, runs a moderate campaign and an uneasy partnership is formed. He was not controversial in his first 2 years.

Then the midterms happen. Record low voter turnout in Indiana and the GOP which had had a supermajority in the senate for ever now also took a super majority in the House - very much fueled by the teaparty.

This is my take - this legislation is being pushed across teaparty dominated states. The State House feels very empowered (they have supermajorities!) The presidential pre-primaries are starting (the wooing by Walker, Bush et al of folks in Iowa and New Hampshire) - and while I don't think this bill was on his agenda - it sure fit the mark for making an impact in the pre-primary road show.

The cultural changes in the state got the attention of large employers in the more cosmopolitan parts of the state. This was bad. The state Chamber of Commerce and the Indianapolis Chamber of Commerce lobbied against it and proposed modifications to it. Reportedly "they found doors closed to them." The Powersthatbe in the Indiana Business Establishment part of the GOP were outcasts in favor of the reactionary activists like Eric Miller of Advance Indiana. I think this faction felt they had lost control.

So the bill speeds through - gov realizes the imagery isn't all good - so does a behind closed door signing (with his religious right audience) - and the internet goes wild (cultural back lash - which quickly moves beyond Indiana - national audience)

Meanwhile you have a GOP Mayor in Indianapolis (who lobbied against it) - who also entered his initial race as an unknown - non GOP long timer - who is not running again - who, I believe, was aggrieved by this law and its effect on Indianapolis.

Starting Friday there has been non-stop developments. Citizen/cultural backlash - fuels business establishment (who has been rebuked) anger and empowerment as waves start not just denouncing, but then some start proclaiming direct action (travel bans, boycotts) to surreal threats... ex., should the NCAA pull the tournament? (impossible when it was less than a week away) by the time Pence, within a day of signing does a presser stating that he will push for legislative action to "clarify the law" (that he already signed) - that gets more attention - because don't you do that BEFORE you sign the law? Then he goes on air nationally and can not answer the question about covering discrimination against gays in a scenario that one of his supporters (right behind him in the infamous signing photo) put forth as something protected by the law.

I think by this time the tidal wave was so big that the star which had posted an column about understanding each others position and Healing! was around the clock responding to the next travel ban or cancelled convention, etc. emboldening the 9 big CEOs to write a letter demanding action. The Mayor in Indy and the City County Council Call of the Leg. to make sexual orientation a protected class - and to declare that any entity doing business with the city had to follow city ordinances... and well... out right that "Discrimination is Wrong". And a few hours later the Star Editorial Board - which is usually a slow acting deliberative body writes "FIX IT!"

I think the reactions were fostered by the initial conditions (change in cultural beliefs among many hoosiers) and Pence's over-reach per the Indy Business establishment powerbrokers. And that in the hours and days after the signing each reaction fueled/empowered other reactions moving to a rapid tidal wave.

I have never seen anything like this before. From a Pence standpoint I can't think of a better word than "Fiasco".

It appears that even the Gov in Arkansas is looking to how Indiana creates a "fix" before he signs the similar legislation just passed in his state.

Just my two cents and observations.

[salin]

17. to Unblock

I meant to put this lengthy response directly to your OP - but started responding to the surprise factor (how fast) - but I did want you to see that I gave an attempt at an explanation to your original questions just above this post.

[chieftain]

8. This law could hurt Indiana business interests.

So this time it is not just us on the left who are being critical but powerful economic interests who can be hurt by boycotts and convention cancellations.

[Chellee]

10. You're simply ahead of your time.

Yes, you've been outraged by their behavior for 20+ years, while the rest of the country either agreed or thought, "Meh."

But people's attitudes and beliefs are growing and changing to come more into line with yours. The Republicans haven't recognized that fact yet. That's why they're so shocked by the reaction. But, then again, you're not used to it either.

It's not just demographics that are changing the face of the electorate, it's also an attitude/belief shift.

The next few decades are looking good for Liberals.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

11. It's not the haters who are changing. It's the rest of America.

Younger Americans are less and less willing to tolerate blatant, in-your-face bigoted actions. They've seen that 'being the adult in the room' or whatever the current euphemism for turning a blind eye is these days didn't actually work to change anything. And they can connect more easily and get more people organized thanks to social media.

[99Forever]

12. Best guess.

They have hit a tipping point. The tide has turned.

[immoderate]

14. Good guess.

--imm

[Rex]

13. The Wall Street line, it could cost the state billions in revenue.

That is a big difference. Although, I knew as soon as the Hobby Lobby verdict came back from the SCOTUS - we would be seeing more and more RWing troglodytes take advantage of a way to oppress another group of people.

OF COURSE, this issue parallel women's rights issues...but do you see any privately owned business with signs that say NO WOMEN ALLOWED? No you don't. Well this is just another slippery slope by the states to control another group of people.

For some reason the GOP seems to lie a lot about not wanting big government or big brother. No doubt you already knew that way back in the 80s. So did I.

Legalized homophobia. Legalized Misogyny. Legalized Funamentalism...don't take my word for it. Here is the signing picture from the governors office;


The children of those once most oppressed over their religion, now are the parents of those that can now be oppressed over their religion.

Post 9/11 'Religious Freedom' means the legal right to judge others and deny services based on various deities and their fictional stories. It serves no place in the law or commerce and should be banned from both. IMO.

Laws, commerce and religion should always be adversarial to each other imo. It promotes equality among everyone in society. Mix any of those and you always end up with a fucked up society and economy.

IMNSHO.

[Bluenorthwest]

18. I remember a very strong reaction to Arizona's 'Show Your Papers' laws, boycotts and the whole

routine. A similar sort of legislation, a similar reaction. What other specific laws do you mean and why just say 'so many other things'? What other things?

[spanone]

19. they tried to legalize discrimination...it's called apartheid.