Conservatives spend 25 hours a day looking for "work-arounds"

[SoCalDem]

25 hours is NOT a typo...

They are a dinosaur party that refuses to accept their impending demise. The poor old real dinosaurs at least might have claimed that they could not have known what was headed their way, but republicans/conservatives KNOW why they are failing, and instead of accepting/embracing change, they rabidly fight it in every Machiavellian way they can.

In the 60's they were told that they could no longer hang onto Jim Crow laws, so they fled to suburbia (taking the tax base/jobs/good schools with them).

They invented a whole new language so they could still denigrate at will, with a dog whistle here or there...and then feign ignorance if anyone noticed.

When abortion was made legal, they created a whole new industry of legislatively curbing the application of the law whenever and wherever they could.

Now they have re-focused their attention to same sex marriage, even though many (most?) of them have gay family members/friends . They claim "tolerance", but suddenly appear to be overly "fearful" of hordes of wild-eyed gays "attacking" their faith.. ..

Their legislatures work feverishly trying to deny people they do not like, the vote.. They don't even want gay people to have cake

They proclaim that they are only trying to be "tolerant"..but even that word "tolerant" bugs me. It always reminds me that the one GIVING tolerance is automatically superior, and is being magnanimous to someone who "really" doesn't deserve it..

They are just lucky that I am not all-powerful and that I do not have a magic wand..

[Lars39]

1. They're way overdue for the tar pits!

They push their brand of 'tolerance' when the real goal of humanity should be acceptance.
Nice to see ya, SoCalDem!

[DetlefK]

2. No, their problem is, they DON'T know why they are failing.

The same policies, the same morals, the same prejudices rehashed over and over and over again.

What happens when voters don't vote for conservative policies?

Then it's the fault of voters for not getting it how good conservative politics actually are. Needs more "messaging".

No matter how much times change, how much society changes, conservative policies always stay the same and are always the correct answer in any situation.
"The economy is doing good! Cut taxes!"
"The economy is doing bad! Cut taxes!"
"I stubbed my toe! Cut taxes!"

[lovemydog]

4. Lol on the 'cut taxes' crap.

Of course, it's always for the ultra rich that they cut taxes. Their politicians don't give a crap about the middle class.

Same goes for their diplomatic policies.

"There's strife in the Middle East! Bomb them!"
"There's peace in the Middle East! Bomb them!"
"I stubbed my toe! Perfect time to bomb the Middle East!"

[Cosmocat]

7. Yep

No matter that they are repeatedly wrong, that they are wrong almost literally on EVERYTHING, they only become more sure of how right they are.

There really is no way to rationally talk and try to work something out with them.

The problem now is that the past that 40% or so of this country, the "mushy middle" 20% is too distracted and far to often has one or two elements of their needs or beliefs that fall in line with what conservatives champion, so they tend to fall in behind them.

[GoneFishin]

15. They don't care about the social issues as long as their sucker GOP voter base can be tricked into

voting for policies that help the billionaires and gargantuan corporations. That is why they are free to lie and cheat. They have no moral foundation. If they can put more money in their billionaire friends' and family members' pockets then they win, truth be damned.

[mindwalker_i]

22. "Cut taxes" sounds good to people, generally

It's something that people respond positively to because they don't think past the surface. Beneath that, there are cuts to services that people need, plus those tax cuts generally don't go to most of the people, they go to the rich and to corporations. The republican leaders pushing tax cuts don't think about how that will actually affect the country. It's just what they do to look good and get votes - the effects on the country or economy don't enter into the equation. Sure they come up with "reasons" to justify it, like trickle-down, but whether those reason actually have any relation to reality very much doesn't matter.

The thing is, almost all the energy and efforts of the republican party are dedicated to reelection. They are like parasites in that an overwhelming part of their metabolism is dedicated to reproduction. And that leads to the tax breaks to the rich and corps, because some of that will come back as campaign contributions (reproduction), and a lot of cozy relations with lobbyists or other people who will get money (food) for reelection (reproduction).

We are, effectively, the body hosting these parasites. They take a lot of our energy from us, and it's really an ugly situation. Too bad it isn't covered under Obamacare.

[malaise]

3. What scares me is that while we talk about their demise and they should be

run out of town, they control the House, the Senate, the Governors and state legislatures.

Meanwhile workers rights are vanishing. They are not just lucky - they have corrupted the system to the point that they carve up the house seats and pass laws twhat reduce workers' rights.

Genuine progressives need to fight back.

[lovemydog]

6. I know malaise, that bugs me so much as well.

I think a lot of genuine progressives do fight back. We need to increase our numbers. I'm always open to suggestions on how we might do so!

[Cosmocat]

9. We are digging in sand

This bullshit REALLY started to get traction in the early 90s.

At the time, they TRIED to put some bullshit, pseudo intellectual veneer to what they were pushing - states rights, the constitution, whatever.

It never really made sense, but they TRIED to legitimize it.

Today, a quarter century later, as you noted, with even more of a hold on thing than in the early 90s, they have regressed to some angry mob that simply gets up in the morning, read the news and scream about the evil liberal.

This after spending the early 2000s using 9-11 to advance their bullshit.

The democratic party is dead, almost literally.

Stands for nothing, rallies around nothing.

SO, the republicans and their media lapdogs manage to drag the country whatever deranged direction they are heading 90 percent of the time.

[lovemydog]

11. What is the basis for you opinion that 'The democratic party is dead, almost literally.

Stands for nothing, rallies around nothing.'

And what can be done by us (you & me and other progressives) and the democratic party and/or anyone else to improve things?

I'm into fighting back. I think things are too important to concede defeat.

I view the democratic party as standing for raising the minimum wage, for workers, for gay people, for women, for people of color, for the middle class, for diplomacy over war. Of course, I'm talking about progressive democrats. And I agree with you (I think) that we need more progressive democrats in Congress.

How do you think we should or can get out of digging in the sand?

Thanks.

[jwirr]

18. It might help if more of our progressive candidates ran like Bernie Saunders. They seem to be

afraid to run left.

[lovemydog]

23. I agree. Distinguish themselves from

republicans and wishy-washy corporatist 'moderate' democrats.

Run on issues that really help people. Publicize those issues and get local people involved in their campaigns!

[Cosmocat]

28. The basis of my opinion is reality

I have have been watching this unfold for a quarter century now.

I was mystified at how a good president like Clinton was so totally wore down and attacked relentlessly by absolutely bullshit in the 90s.

I was horrified when Bush II won election, he ended up being worse than I thought he would be, and I still am bitter over being lumped in as a terrorist loving america hating POS for not supporting Iraq.

I had my fill and got into the game for about 8 years, I put myself out there.

I put the interests of my family on the side burner while trying to DO something about it.

Tough, progressive, no one campaigned harder, I always was strong and regarded as one of if the not best in debates ...

Never had the full support of the local party, which backed lesser people because I was too strong, too independent, not a typical say nothing pol or a pol who could be managed.

I am done.

I will vote, and it sure as hell ain't going to be for koolaid drinking republicans.

But I can't support lesser people than me actively.

Very few people that I see strength, smarts, integrity in.

This president, one other person I hope is going to run in a few years for senate.

If you have the fight go at it.

I won't try to convince you not to or disregard you.

I hope that your efforts see more of return than mine have.

I just know that I have hard memory of sitting in the lockeroom of a gym in the early 90s, with Limbaugh blaring through the radio. A couple of guys I knew, liked and respect with me just lapping it up, and me thinking it was absolutely surreal that these decent guys were buying that bullshit.

WTF were all these evil liberals they are talking about? I never have met these foul, grotesques.

Nearly 25 years later, they fucked the country up royal in between, and somehow, outside of 1600 PA, have more power today at the federal, state and judicial level than they did back then.

I do hope you can be part of the fight to get things moving in the right direction.

But, people are flat fooling themselves if they think this shit is going away.

What I have learned in my adult life, the one thing I was in fact naive about, is when it comes to voting, this country is stupid as shit.

[lovemydog]

29. That's a lot of my reality too.

Here in New Mexico this past gubernatorial election, we had a brilliant progressive candidate running for governor, named Alan Webber. I went to some of his talks, he got tons of support in progressive Santa Fe. But he lost in the primaries partly because from what I understand the democratic party told him that Governor Susana Martinez had no chance of losing. A boring middle of the road guy, it was 'his turn.' His family was a big family with a lot of past history in the state. His last name was King, can't even recall his first name. He got the democratic nomination and got trounced. It's very frustrating. Personally I believe Martinez was vulnerable. The only way she could have been defeated though, imho, was by an outspoken progressive like Webber, with the help of full backing & funding from the democratic party.

Everyone who heard Webber speak was quite enthused. In the primaries he won Santa Fe by a landslide. I don't think most in the rest of the state ever even heard of him. He just never even got the opportunity to get his message across the state. I know there isn't unlimited funding, and the party has to pick and choose its battles. But the party gave Webber something close to zero! I think the party keeps picking boring middle of the road party hacks over people who can actually ignite interest once their message gets across to a broad spectrum of people.

I agree with you that I like this president very much. I agree with you that all this stupid shit isn't going to go away. I most definitely agree with you about the value of voting. And I agree with you that when it comes to voting this country is amazingly stupid. One of the most frustrating things I find, both here and offline, is those who say it's not worth voting at all.

I feel it is always worth voting. I don't think our current situation is all the fault of the voters or all the fault of nonvoters or all the fault of the democratic party running all the wrong candidates or all the fault of money in politics or people being ignorant. I do think it's the fault of all of these factors and many more. And I say this as a democratic socialist who always votes, and usually votes for candidates who are more conservative than me.

I vote for the most progressive candidate on every ballot, local, state, federal. We got our asses handed to us in the last congressional elections, and I think there's a lot of blame to go around. I feel it's not some simple explanation like 'oh, it's all the fault of the politicians' or 'oh, it's all the fault of the voters'. I think we'll keep getting our asses handed to us if we don't toughen up. Politics is a dirty business. You've got to get your hands dirty. We need all the voters we can get. Even if we go down we should go down swinging hard. People will respect us for being fighters for the people.

Thanks for your comments. I know how you feel. I've been involved in political stuff before as well. Frankly I find it exhausting, and now prefer to make my own little contributions offline, not on message boards, via the way I conduct myself in my personal life and with those around me. I still vote. I prefer to do things locally, like moving my money to a small local bank, getting rid of credit cards, being good to people around me, trying to somewhat bridge this awful gap between ignorance and apathy on the one hand and the roaring scream of conservative media on the other hand (one that isn't going away). I hear you!

[Cosmocat]

33. The other thing is

I live in a leaning republican area. There is a more progressive town that is the heart of our area, but I live on the outside, more republican area.

I have more friends and acquaintances that are republican than not.

Most of these folks are flat good people. Some selfish tea party types, but mostly they are truly good people, most of whom are active in the community, help others and generally have really big hearts.

But, they are "conservative" and there is not telling them different.

They know my politics, but because I don't push the issues with them, and we are otherwise like minded, they respect me and we maintain our friendships. These folks in fact mostly supported my efforts to run for office.

The best I can do here is be who I am and model that to their way of thinking, all democrats are not godless scumbags.

These folks are mostly older.

Outside of them, I have a lot of people our age who have children our age.

There are more democrats in this age group.

BUT, there are a LOT of people who are not really in line with a lot of what republicans want who end up lining up with them over single issues.

For instance, more of the people our age have no time what so ever for gay bashing. They generally do not support the hawkish stupidity.

BUT, because of guns or the PC bullshit or the big spending liberal bullshit, they fall in behind republicans.

It is exasperating.

I can TRY to talk to them and lay out how over stated the big spending liberal thing is AND how in fact republicans are the ones who most often jack up government spending, but it just does not take.

I also know some business type republicans. Again, I like them and we really get along personally. BUT, they have true interests that are benefited by republicans and know it. I get invited to some COC type things with them and it is kind of funny that I sort of am like the gay or of color friend people point to like, "see, they all aren't bad."

Just too many ways that the GOP has to suck people into it, and you can't tell people any different. They either have a moment of personal realization or they don't.

[Nitram]

14. Cosmocat, you need to take a deep breath...

...and calm down. No, the democratic party is not dead, nor is it meaningless. Looks like the right wing propaganda machine has managed to convince you that the entire universe is going to hell in a handbasket.

[FSogol]

21. Seriously. The nation is about to swing left. The noise that is distrubing you

are the dying gasps of the GOP as a national party. They won't disappear, but we are close to taking back everything while they obstruct, rant, and rave.

[lovemydog]

25. While I'd love for that to be true, I think

it's on the optimistic side. The republican party currently controls both Houses of Congress. It doesn't appear to me to be in decline.

If the nation is about to swing left - and I hope it does! - we need candidates who strongly distinguish themselves from republicans. Who clearly articulate and publicize how they differ from republicans and what they offer to potential voters.

We need people voting for them out of enthusiasm for their policies. The democratic party needs voters at every level, in all elections.

I don't look at it as all up to the voters or all up to the candidates. I think it's a little of both. And I think that's a real challenge for the democratic party going forward, as it needs voter enthusiasm and large voter turnout for its candidates to get elected.

[Cosmocat]

27. WTF are you talking about?

So, I call right wing propaganda bullshit and somehow your brilliant analysis is that it has convinced me of something other just how bad republicans are?

That makes no sense.

Dead or not, sorry, the democratic party is most certainly useless right now.

[guillaumeb]

26. It really started back in the 1960's.

Civil rights and anti-war protests took the GOP by surprise. They have been fighting back ever since.

Remember the Pentagon Papers? The media exposing military corruption? Seen any stories like that lately in the corporate media?

The rich started buying up the media and funding think tanks to reframe the debate to their terms. One example is the Cato institute, originally the Koch Institute by the way, which was started to enable the right wing to commission studies and reports conveying their message.

They have had 50 years to craft and promote their message and yes, many in the Democratic Party drink the Kool Aid also.

[Cosmocat]

34. Yeah

I was a young adult in the late 80s to 90s, so that is when I have seen first hand the devolution.

I do know the things you note.

In the early 70s, Nixon ended up being run out of office for his unethical behavior.

In the 80s, there was some actual congressional investigations and it was exposed, but Reagan weaseled out from under Iran Contra.

In the 90s, while there was SOME level of normalcy to the process in the 80s, it went completely sideways, when congress spent a never before seen amount of time and energy actively, overtly, trying to take down Clinton.

In the 2000s, Bush lied this country into Iraq, and not only did that crew not see even the first bit of an effort to hold them accountable for it, they used 9-11 to push bully their agenda through across the board.

NOW - congress is totally, completely and unabashedly used to oppose the sitting president.

I was mystied in the 90s when the media mostly allowed republican bullshit to be put forward unchallenged.

NOW, they not only don't challenge, they cheer it and advance it most often.

[lovemydog]

5. They spend all this time on a work-around without

even giving the slightest admission that it's a shitty law and should be scrapped.

[jwirr]

19. there is a very easy work around - copy the federal law word for word.

[lovemydog]

30. Agreed. Republicans don't want to do that because they want to discriminate

and pretend it's not discrimination.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

8. "They don't even want gay people to have cake"

Back when the slaves were freed the conservatives of the time claimed it was against God for them to get married. They claimed it was no different than two cows or two chickens or two horses getting married. They considered slaves to be no different than any other farm animal.

That's the origin of a lot of this "sanctity of marriage" crap.

[daleanime]

10. They're just lucky to have an enabling 'partern'....

who wouldn't let them die.

[rurallib]

12. well said

[maindawg]

13. Willful ignorance

Is the policy.
Yesterday, I tuned into 1100 while I was waiting in my car. Mike Trivasano a local radio talker who has been on for some 30 years and holds alot of audience compared gays to nazis in an analogy fit for a 6th grade bully. That is that narrative folks.
Since its ok for a jewish deli to decline service to a 'Neo Nazi' ,it should be ok to refuse service to a gay person.
That , is willful ignorance.
This issue is going to be the straw that breaks the bigoted backs of the Republican party, because they have to own it. Hell this issue just vaulted Ted Cruz to the lead! If you want to win the Rethug primary, you have to go full on bigot.
Now that its Easter and I will have to go to dinner with my family, I will have to endure the overt bigoted screechers as I did when the Duck Dynasty guy went full on bigot and so impressed the asshole brigade that we all were forced to endure the endless adulation that pretty much ruined Christmas 13.
Do they time this crap or is it random dumb luck?

[olddots]

16. time to turn off the mic

The wizzard of Oz can be exposed and will be .

[LeftinOH]

17. The religious right has convinced their followers that Christianity

is under attack, and that extreme measures (like "religious freedom" bills) are the only way to stop the 'liberal/atheist/muslim/Nazi/communist' onslaught. The AFA and FRC, as well as FOX and dozens of RW talk-radio gasbags drone on endlessly about Christian persecution in the USA.

That's where this "religious freedom" nonsense is coming from. Of course, there's religious freedom already - but they are running out of things to legislate against. So, if they have fabricate some non-existant problem out of thin air, they're going to run with it.

“Backlash to this bill proves exactly why protections like these are necessary,” said AFA president Tim Wildmon. “In general, society will not give the faithful the means or the permission to defend their beliefs and convictions. Therefore, we applaud Indiana for standing up for religious freedom by signing this important and historic bill into law.”
http://www.afa.net/who-is-afa/press-releases/2015/03-march/american-family-association-supports-indiana-s-religious-freedom-law/

[randome]

20. It's a sign of how powerless they are becoming, you are right on the mark.

[hr][font color="blue"][center]"The whole world is a circus if you know how to look at it."
Tony Randall, 7 Faces of Dr. Lao (1964)[/center][/font][hr]

[moondust]

24. Jeb Bush wants 'consensus-oriented approach'

Jeb Bush wants 'consensus-oriented approach' to discrimination laws

Right. If a majority decides slavery is okay--then slavery is okay, by God.

GOP is morally bankrupt. But you knew that...

[lovemydog]

31. Fuck Jeb Bush. Fuck that discriminatory law.

All discriminatory law is bad law. That shitty law should be repealed.

I know you know that. I'm venting!

[HereSince1628]

32. yes, and that leads to application of "It's not illegal" defenses

Many people see such invocations of 'but its' legal' as evidence of people who spend their time testing the barriers.

We've heard that defense quite a bit in February and March.